freedom of choice to accept or refuse treatments..

First topic message reminder :

should it be our human rights to accept or refuse any treatment offered and should we be made aware of any alternative treatments..

BigAndy9 wrote:So come on didge - you're taking longer than usual.

Why exactly did you just throw that out there?

Because we disagreed on posting on the forum is the answer.

Utterly ridiculous!

Read again

You said you searched for it, in some feeble attempt to claim you were doing this to protect me, when as seen i need no protection because, I am not silly enough to give out my real name or where I really live or even my date of birth, though am clever enough to use someone I know lol. So you lied to me then, if someone else did and now you do not expose that person trying to be callus to search for a posters real identity, that makes you even worse by complicity.

Why would anyone do that unless they wish to poorly try to expose people.

So either way it makes you look bad Andy

PhilDidge wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


lol

Oh didge didge dige.

I was offered your identity by somebody else (along with others) and what did I do didge - go on tell everybody.

I sent you a pm warning you?  I have them, so it's up to you whether you tell the forum after getting in to a hissy and trying to spread naughtiness around.

You said you searched for it, in some feeble attempt to claim you were doing this to protect me, when as seen i need no protection because, I am not silly enough to give out my real name or where I really live or even my date of birth, though am clever enough to use someone I know lol. So you lied to me then, if someone else did and now you do not expose that person trying to be callus to search for a posters real identity, that makes you even worse by complicity.

Why would anyone do that unless they wish to poorly try to expose people.

So either way it makes you look bad Andy

No, it doesn't.

I won't tell you their name and I won't tell anybody else yours - just as I told you in the PM's.

Keep this going as long as you want didge.

I'm still wondering why after a little argument you brought this up lol

It's great debating btw...


 ::D:: 

BigAndy9 wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


You said you searched for it, in some feeble attempt to claim you were doing this to protect me, when as seen i need no protection because, I am not silly enough to give out my real name or where I really live or even my date of birth, though am clever enough to use someone I know lol. So you lied to me then, if someone else did and now you do not expose that person trying to be callus to search for a posters real identity, that makes you even worse by complicity.

Why would anyone do that unless they wish to poorly try to expose people.

So either way it makes you look bad Andy

No, it doesn't.

I won't tell you their name and I won't tell anybody else yours - just as I told you in the PM's.

Keep this going as long as you want didge.

I'm still wondering why after a little argument you brought this up lol

lol you do not have my real name, that is the funny part and you are thus protecting someone callus trying to as you have admitted not only try to search my identity but others. In fact i already know who it is and is an immigrant to this country, because he is so daft in some of his comments hence I know  who it is

This is because Andy, I know what you are like and the little games you play and of course this is not the first time this has happened either, for people to do that shows how pathetic their lives are they become so bothered by a poster on a forum, they have to be so vindictive to try to expose their real identity. Up to you if you wish to hide this callus person, but it makes you complicit.

I just think it is funny how eve more so they are that daft to think many would use their real names, age ect

PhilDidge wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

No, it doesn't.

I won't tell you their name and I won't tell anybody else yours - just as I told you in the PM's.

Keep this going as long as you want didge.

I'm still wondering why after a little argument you brought this up lol

lol you do not have my real name, that is the funny part and you are thus protecting someone callus trying to as you have admitted not only try to search my identity but others.

This is because Andy, I know what you are like and the little games you play and of course this is not the first time this has happened either, for people to do that shows how pathetic their lives are they become so bothered by a poster on a forum, they have to be so vindictive to try to expose their real identity. Up to you if you wish to hide this callus person, but it makes you complicit.

I just think it is funny how eve more so they are that daft to think many would use their real names, age ect

Yeah, you already told me that via PM.

Not sure what you mean by real names, age etc.

But anyway, as you said in the PM - it wasn't you and I replied that's good because he looks like some greasy Italian puffter or something.

So we both went our own way - very friendly I remember.  It's a real shame that because you disagree with me on here you try and make me look bad didge.

This has gone slightly off topic ...

BigAndy9 wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


lol you do not have my real name, that is the funny part and you are thus protecting someone callus trying to as you have admitted not only try to search my identity but others.

This is because Andy, I know what you are like and the little games you play and of course this is not the first time this has happened either, for people to do that shows how pathetic their lives are they become so bothered by a poster on a forum, they have to be so vindictive to try to expose their real identity. Up to you if you wish to hide this callus person, but it makes you complicit.

I just think it is funny how eve more so they are that daft to think many would use their real names, age ect

Not sure what you mean by real names, age etc.

But anyway, as you said in the PM - it wasn't you and I replied that's good because he looks like some greasy Italian puffter or something.

So we both went our own way - very friendly I remember.  It's a real shame that because you disagree with me on here you try and make me look bad didge.

Andy sorry i do not buy your bull and ex squaddies stick together, of that I know also, another hint to who it is doing this. You have done me a favour here proving that someone has tried to search identities of people and that was all I was looking for, so thanks, now people can work out who was doing this and see that person for themselves.


Thank you

sassy tried to look us up even posted a map thinking she had found our house , it is sad i agree , but it does happen but its all in the past now

Raggamuffin wrote:Sassy, are you saying that the big pharma companies test natural remedies all the time? Can you give some examples of that? I'm not disputing what you said as I know that many compounds and substances they test don't make it to the market, I'm genuinely interested.

(For some reason, I can't quote your post.)

Well, I give you details of the one I know very well because of my condition, green tea for chronic leukaemia:

http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/search/view?cdrid=454773&version=HealthProfessional

That was the objective of the trails that the Mayo Clinic did.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23527714

Thats the results of the trails, that showed it helped to regulate the cells in the early stages of the disease. It also showed epigallocatechin-gallate (EGCG) is the part of the tea that does that, but in some people it affected their heart and in some it caused abdomen pain. So patients are now given epigallocatechin-gallate if they want it, which has been refined by the drug companies (you can't drink enough green tea for it to make any difference), but patients who take it are watched very carefully in case they react badly. They now also know it can affect the liver, so that is monitored as well.

Raggamuffin wrote:This has gone slightly off topic ...

Quite. I apologise, but obviously couldn't just leave it as it was.

Didge could have PM'd me, but wanted to try and make me look like a naughty man - why, I don't know?!

PhilDidge wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

Not sure what you mean by real names, age etc.

But anyway, as you said in the PM - it wasn't you and I replied that's good because he looks like some greasy Italian puffter or something.

So we both went our own way - very friendly I remember.  It's a real shame that because you disagree with me on here you try and make me look bad didge.

Andy sorry i do not buy your bull and ex squaddies stick together, of that I know also, another hint to who it is doing this. You have done me a favour here proving that someone has tried to search identities of people and that was all I was looking for, so thanks, now people can work out who was doing this and see that person for themselves.


Thank you

lol ex squaddies stick together??

What the hell are you on about?

Go on didge - tell everybody - was I malicious at all, or did I do the right thing and tell you?

And tell them what happened, not what you "have worked out" or "think".

Sometimes you really do have to take people on face value didge - we're not all nasty people, even if we say "seig heil" on the forum for a laugh.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:This has gone slightly off topic ...

Quite.  I apologise, but obviously couldn't just leave it as it was.

Didge could have PM'd me, but wanted to try and make me look like a naughty man - why, I don't know?!

Andy I only used you to expose the person doing this and you helped do that, now no need to say any more on the matter, people can figure out the idiot for themselves

Like I say Thanks

I haven't read the whole thing here as i am looking after my grandson , but this shows there must be a huge interest in alternative medicines

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-help/about-cancer/treatment/complementary-alternative/research/about-researching-complementary-and-alternative-therapies

PhilDidge wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


Quite.  I apologise, but obviously couldn't just leave it as it was.

Didge could have PM'd me, but wanted to try and make me look like a naughty man - why, I don't know?!

Andy I only used you to expose the person doing this and you helped do that, now no need to say any more on the matter, people can figure out the idiot for themselves

Like I say Thanks

Why didn't you PM me and ask?

BigAndy9 wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



Andy I only used you to expose the person doing this and you helped do that, now no need to say any more on the matter, people can figure out the idiot for themselves

Like I say Thanks

Why didn't you PM me and ask?  

Because people have a right to know there is an idiot out their so childish trying to search posters identities and you were required to confirm that, everything I do has an intention, so no offence the last couple of days, was premeditated

 

Maine coon lover wrote:I haven't read the whole thing here as i am looking after my grandson , but this shows there must be a huge interest in alternative medicines

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-help/about-cancer/treatment/complementary-alternative/research/about-researching-complementary-and-alternative-therapies

My summing up of this thread/debate is thus:

Most of us would prefer to go down the route of whatever the NHS recommends.

If your ailment affords you the time and the NHS treatment doesn't cure it, I think even I would try alternative medicines.

We shouldn't dismiss other people's wishes to try them out and I think most of us are old enough to decide for ourselves what is best for us, so when somebody "preaches" that putting holy water on the end of your elbow will cure cancer, we shouldn't call them b4st4rd evil people!

Maine coon lover wrote:I haven't read the whole thing here as i am looking after my grandson , but this shows there must be a huge interest in alternative medicines

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-help/about-cancer/treatment/complementary-alternative/research/about-researching-complementary-and-alternative-therapies

bump

eddie wrote:

Sassy wrote:

So many people believe black is white, doesn't make it true though.

What you don't seem to get Eddie, is that if there is something in a herbal remedy that helps, that something is a chemical.   If there is a chemical in a herb that helps, it is tested, because it might be dangerous for some people, even though it helps others.   It might also be dangerous if taken in conjunction with other medication, so that is tested as well.   Very often, the chemical in a herb (as most drugs started out as natural substances) can be made to work better is they are made more concentrated, or mixed with something else that increases they potency.   When all this is done, they then have to be tested, which is very thorough.   Drug companies test natural things all the time, we wouldn't have progressed if they didn't.   To say they don't is hogwash.   To say that the NHS don't give you a choice is hogwash, to say the specialists don't tell you everything and anything that can help is hogwash.   All you are doing is helping HF promote lies, distortions and snake oil.   I thought you had more intelligence than that.

Sassy, having a different opinion to you doesn't necessarily make me less intelligent.

And what if I am less intelligent? Doesn't mean I'm wrong to believe that pharma companies make she'd loads of money off the back of cancer patients.

And if I'm unintelligent for believing it, then so must many millions of others be.

See what you and others can't seem to do, I concede that some of HF's points are true, because you don't like him.
Now that makes some of you ignorant in this particular case.
And I'm certainly not that.

I don't concede HF's points, not because I don't like him (I freely admit I hate his guts) but because he is not only wrong, completely and utterly, but dangerously wrong, and he has said on previous forums (that Gerber remembers as well as me) that he has tried to stop people taking chemo etc to take untested, untrailed, so called alternative cures, from the internet.  

He says that nobody does anything about alternative cures, see the green tea trails above, they do, he is lying.  

Think of an alternative therapy as a salad, as we have been talking about herbs.   Lots of people eat the salad, say it makes them feel better.   So the trail tries to find out what particular thing in the salad makes you feel better.   If they find it's the tomato, then then try to find out how many tomatoes, and if it turns out to be 20, then then see if eating 20 tomatoes has any side effects.   At the end of the trail, they see if it has actually helped in every, or just a few, and why it helped those few.

If it turns out that it helps a lot of them, they then trail it with a larger group, and so on ........     That way, when people take the pill equivalent to 20 tomatoes (you couldn't eat that many every day) they know what side effects to look out for, and they know it's safe to do it.

PhilDidge wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

Why didn't you PM me and ask?  

Because people have a right to know there is an idiot out their so childish trying to search posters identities and you were required to confirm that, everything I do has an intention, so no offence the last couple of days, was premeditated

 

There's a lot of idiots on these forums - I think everybody knows that!

Oh, everything didge does has an intention - flippin 007 over there. I fell right in to your trap. Boo me!

Some of us are here for fun, not investigating high-profile forum Godfather's.

BigAndy9 wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



Because people have a right to know there is an idiot out their so childish trying to search posters identities and you were required to confirm that, everything I do has an intention, so no offence the last couple of days, was premeditated

 

There's a lot of idiots on these forums - I think everybody knows that!

Oh, everything didge does has an intention - flippin 007 over there.  I fell right in to your trap.  Boo me!  

Some of us are here for fun, not investigating high-profile forum Godfather's.

Why are you so upset about it?

lol have a good day Andy and thanks

BigAndy9 wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:I haven't read the whole thing here as i am looking after my grandson , but this shows there must be a huge interest in alternative medicines

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-help/about-cancer/treatment/complementary-alternative/research/about-researching-complementary-and-alternative-therapies

My summing up of this thread/debate is thus:

Most of us would prefer to go down the route of whatever the NHS recommends.

If your ailment affords you the time and the NHS treatment doesn't cure it, I think even I would try alternative medicines.

We shouldn't dismiss other people's wishes to try them out and I think most of us are old enough to decide for ourselves what is best for us, so when somebody "preaches" that putting holy water on the end of your elbow will cure cancer, we shouldn't call them b4st4rd evil people!

Its funny you should mention holy water, and i don't care if i get the piss taken out of me or my faith for saying this, but my dad had a triple bypass in 2004 and the in the drip sight on his hand he developed an infection which was eating his skin away they said it wasn't MRSA, they didn't know what it was, it was disgusting and he even had skin graft on it but the infection kept eating his skin away , out of desperation he walked into a church and poured holy water on it , it cleared up in a day and started healing. It might be that the infection just died who knows , but maybe having faith in that holy water was what cure this infection .

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Sassy, are you saying that the big pharma companies test natural remedies all the time? Can you give some examples of that? I'm not disputing what you said as I know that many compounds and substances they test don't make it to the market, I'm genuinely interested.

(For some reason, I can't quote your post.)

Well, I give you details of the one I know very well because of my condition, green tea for chronic leukaemia:

http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/search/view?cdrid=454773&version=HealthProfessional

That was the objective of the trails that the Mayo Clinic did.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23527714

Thats the results of the trails, that showed it helped to regulate the cells in the early stages of the disease.   It also showed epigallocatechin-gallate (EGCG) is the part of the tea that does that, but in some people it affected their heart and in some it caused abdomen pain.   So patients are now given epigallocatechin-gallate if they want it, which has been refined by the drug companies (you can't drink enough green tea for it to make any difference), but patients who take it are watched very carefully in case they react badly.   They now also know it can affect the liver, so that is monitored as well.

bump

Maine coon lover wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


My summing up of this thread/debate is thus:

Most of us would prefer to go down the route of whatever the NHS recommends.

If your ailment affords you the time and the NHS treatment doesn't cure it, I think even I would try alternative medicines.

We shouldn't dismiss other people's wishes to try them out and I think most of us are old enough to decide for ourselves what is best for us, so when somebody "preaches" that putting holy water on the end of your elbow will cure cancer, we shouldn't call them b4st4rd evil people!

Its funny you should mention holy water, and i don't care if i get the piss taken out of me or my faith for saying this, but my dad had a triple bypass in 2004 and the in the drip sight on his hand he developed an infection which was eating his skin away they said it wasn't MRSA, they didn't know what it was, it was disgusting and he even had skin graft on it but the infection kept eating his skin away , out of desperation he walked into a church and poured holy water on it , it cleared up in a day and started healing. It might be that the infection just died who knows , but maybe having faith in that holy water was what cure this infection .

That's the thing - we'll never know.

You may have seen all kinds of such miracles, but, they may have all happened just before it was about to heal anyway...

I agree Andy , i know i have had someone pray for me once when i had a pain in my shoulder which wasn't getting better , this young guy touched my shoulder and prayed it be healed and it suddenly was better no pain or discomfort , we will never know but it worked and that was good enough for me.

Sassy wrote:

eddie wrote:


Sassy, having a different opinion to you doesn't necessarily make me less intelligent.

And what if I am less intelligent? Doesn't mean I'm wrong to believe that pharma companies make she'd loads of money off the back of cancer patients.

And if I'm unintelligent for believing it, then so must many millions of others be.

See what you and others can't seem to do, I concede that some of HF's points are true, because you don't like him.
Now that makes some of you ignorant in this particular case.
And I'm certainly not that.

I don't concede HF's points, not because I don't like him (I freely admit I hate his guts) but because he is not only wrong, completely and utterly, but dangerously wrong, and he has said on previous forums (that Gerber remembers as well as me) that he has tried to stop people taking chemo etc to take untested, untrailed, so called alternative cures, from the internet.  

He says that nobody does anything about alternative cures, see the green tea trails above, they do, he is lying.  

Think of an alternative therapy as a salad, as we have been talking about herbs.   Lots of people eat the salad, say it makes them feel better.   So the trail tries to find out what particular thing in the salad makes you feel better.   If they find it's the tomato, then then try to find out how many tomatoes, and if it turns out to be 20, then then see if eating 20 tomatoes has any side effects.   At the end of the trail, they see if it has actually helped in every, or just a few, and why it helped those few.

If it turns out that it helps a lot of them, they then trail it with a larger group, and so on ........     That way, when people take the pill equivalent to 20 tomatoes (you couldn't eat that many every day) they know what side effects to look out for, and they know it's safe to do it.

your like didge you say alternative cures are wrong just because you say they are.
My husband has never told people to stop taking chemo you must be imagining it and brainwashing your pal gerber into believing that also.

I told you it was me that was talking to the lady in church who was going for chemo, i didn't tell her to not take it i told her to do some research on alternative medicine . I told you she went down the chemo route and didn't get cured , then looked into alternative medicine and diet and she is now cancer free.

Lots of people believe in alternative medicine and that is their choice, are you are telling people not to take alternative medicines but to take chemo because you believe it might cure them ?

Maine coon lover wrote:I agree Andy , i know i have had someone pray for me once when i had a pain in my shoulder which wasn't getting better , this young guy touched my shoulder and prayed it be healed and it suddenly was better no pain or discomfort , we will never know but it worked and that was good enough for me.

amen   

Maine coon lover wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


My summing up of this thread/debate is thus:

Most of us would prefer to go down the route of whatever the NHS recommends.

If your ailment affords you the time and the NHS treatment doesn't cure it, I think even I would try alternative medicines.

We shouldn't dismiss other people's wishes to try them out and I think most of us are old enough to decide for ourselves what is best for us, so when somebody "preaches" that putting holy water on the end of your elbow will cure cancer, we shouldn't call them b4st4rd evil people!

Its funny you should mention holy water, and i don't care if i get the piss taken out of me or my faith for saying this, but my dad had a triple bypass in 2004 and the in the drip sight on his hand he developed an infection which was eating his skin away they said it wasn't MRSA, they didn't know what it was, it was disgusting and he even had skin graft on it but the infection kept eating his skin away , out of desperation he walked into a church and poured holy water on it , it cleared up in a day and started healing. It might be that the infection just died who knows , but maybe having faith in that holy water was what cure this infection .

You see in this instance I would not have an issue, as already your father was receiving the correct treatment and no extra harm can come from water that is just blessed.

Guess what, 4 years ago when I nearly died of an infection because of the CLL, I had to gave 5 lots of antibiotics by drip (they are actually quite painful, they burn the vein), because of it I got phlebitis in that arm and the site of the drip did exactly the same as your Dad's did. I put wet cold clean cloths on it, it healed, even with my CLL. That's what it does.

PhilDidge wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

Its funny you should mention holy water, and i don't care if i get the piss taken out of me or my faith for saying this, but my dad had a triple bypass in 2004 and the in the drip sight on his hand he developed an infection which was eating his skin away they said it wasn't MRSA, they didn't know what it was, it was disgusting and he even had skin graft on it but the infection kept eating his skin away , out of desperation he walked into a church and poured holy water on it , it cleared up in a day and started healing. It might be that the infection just died who knows , but maybe having faith in that holy water was what cure this infection .

You see in this instance I would not have an issue, as already your father was receiving the correct treatment and no extra harm can come from water that is just blessed.

What if the treatment from the NHS is doing harm?

Maine coon lover wrote:

Sassy wrote:

I don't concede HF's points, not because I don't like him (I freely admit I hate his guts) but because he is not only wrong, completely and utterly, but dangerously wrong, and he has said on previous forums (that Gerber remembers as well as me) that he has tried to stop people taking chemo etc to take untested, untrailed, so called alternative cures, from the internet.  

He says that nobody does anything about alternative cures, see the green tea trails above, they do, he is lying.  

Think of an alternative therapy as a salad, as we have been talking about herbs.   Lots of people eat the salad, say it makes them feel better.   So the trail tries to find out what particular thing in the salad makes you feel better.   If they find it's the tomato, then then try to find out how many tomatoes, and if it turns out to be 20, then then see if eating 20 tomatoes has any side effects.   At the end of the trail, they see if it has actually helped in every, or just a few, and why it helped those few.

If it turns out that it helps a lot of them, they then trail it with a larger group, and so on ........     That way, when people take the pill equivalent to 20 tomatoes (you couldn't eat that many every day) they know what side effects to look out for, and they know it's safe to do it.

your like didge you say alternative cures are wrong just because you say they are.
My husband has never told people to stop taking chemo you must be imagining it and brainwashing your pal gerber into believing that also.

I told you it was me that was talking to the lady in church who was going for chemo, i didn't tell her to not take it i told her to do some research on alternative medicine . I told you she went down the chemo route and didn't get cured , then looked into alternative medicine and diet and she is now cancer free.

Lots of people believe in alternative medicine and that is their choice, are you are telling people not to take alternative medicines but to take chemo because you believe it might cure them ?

ignore spassy, i think its finally lost the plot..  

Sassy wrote:Guess what, 4 years ago when I nearly died of an infection because of the CLL, I had to gave 5 lots of antibiotics by drip (they are actually quite painful, they burn the vein), because of it I got phlebitis in that arm and the site of the drip did exactly the same as your Dad's did.   I put wet cold clean cloths on it, it healed, even with my CLL.  That's what it does.

sassy my dad was back in hospital with a suction pad on the infected site which was sucking up blood and gunge , it was vile it was not phlebitis it was an unknown infection . You do not know anything about my dads medical condition and i can assure you it was not the same as you have described.

He had skin graft and it still ate away at that .

BigAndy9 wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



You see in this instance I would not have an issue, as already your father was receiving the correct treatment and no extra harm can come from water that is just blessed.

What if the treatment from the NHS is doing harm?

Then if it is, the treatment would be changed, not everyone reacts well to all treatments being as the body can reject certain drugs, hence why in many cases there is alternatives. Again the best treatment will be on offer.

Sounds like necrosis, in which case cutting it away was the only option. Holy water wouldn't have done it, but very glad it healed.

Sassy wrote:Sounds like necrosis, in which case cutting it away was the only option.   Holy water wouldn't have done it, but very glad it healed.

Holy water did do it.

They told you that in a post above.

Sassy wrote:Sounds like necrosis, in which case cutting it away was the only option.   Holy water wouldn't have done it, but very glad it healed.

Your probably right and i did say this when i said about what he did. I am just pleased it did heal up i had visions of it taking over his whole arm .

I am sure the hospital would have tried every different treatments until they stopped the infection .

Just to add , my dads faith in the holy water healed it up and maybe his belief in the holy water was what willed his body to heal it .

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Sassy, are you saying that the big pharma companies test natural remedies all the time? Can you give some examples of that? I'm not disputing what you said as I know that many compounds and substances they test don't make it to the market, I'm genuinely interested.

(For some reason, I can't quote your post.)

Well, I give you details of the one I know very well because of my condition, green tea for chronic leukaemia:

http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/search/view?cdrid=454773&version=HealthProfessional

That was the objective of the trails that the Mayo Clinic did.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23527714

Thats the results of the trails, that showed it helped to regulate the cells in the early stages of the disease.   It also showed epigallocatechin-gallate (EGCG) is the part of the tea that does that, but in some people it affected their heart and in some it caused abdomen pain.   So patients are now given epigallocatechin-gallate if they want it, which has been refined by the drug companies (you can't drink enough green tea for it to make any difference), but patients who take it are watched very carefully in case they react badly.   They now also know it can affect the liver, so that is monitored as well.

Thank you Sassy, that's very interesting. I see it was a very small trial - only 12 patients, but an interesting result there.

Does this not show that it is worth doing some larger trials using this kind of remedy?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

Well, I give you details of the one I know very well because of my condition, green tea for chronic leukaemia:

http://www.cancer.gov/clinicaltrials/search/view?cdrid=454773&version=HealthProfessional

That was the objective of the trails that the Mayo Clinic did.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23527714

Thats the results of the trails, that showed it helped to regulate the cells in the early stages of the disease.   It also showed epigallocatechin-gallate (EGCG) is the part of the tea that does that, but in some people it affected their heart and in some it caused abdomen pain.   So patients are now given epigallocatechin-gallate if they want it, which has been refined by the drug companies (you can't drink enough green tea for it to make any difference), but patients who take it are watched very carefully in case they react badly.   They now also know it can affect the liver, so that is monitored as well.

Thank you Sassy, that's very interesting. I see it was a very small trial - only 12 patients, but an interesting result there.

Does this not show that it is worth doing some larger trials using this kind of remedy?

That's what they went on to do. They got volunteers from the support forums for CLL, thousands of people did it, thats how they ended up knowing the dosage and the fact the liver had to be monitored as well.

still only be looked at as an addition to the typical poisons as the companies need to keep their shareholders happy..

decades and billions of pounds and we still have the same treatments not only are they not looking outside the box they are very happy with the box..

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thank you Sassy, that's very interesting. I see it was a very small trial - only 12 patients, but an interesting result there.

Does this not show that it is worth doing some larger trials using this kind of remedy?

That's what they went on to do.   They got volunteers from the support forums for CLL, thousands of people did it, thats how they ended up knowing the dosage and the fact the liver had to be monitored as well.

Then why are you so against natural remedies? I don't get it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

That's what they went on to do.   They got volunteers from the support forums for CLL, thousands of people did it, thats how they ended up knowing the dosage and the fact the liver had to be monitored as well.

Then why are you so against natural remedies? I don't get it.

No, I'm against untried, untested 'alternative therapies'. I've said over and over again that 'natural remedies' when tried and tested become medication, which, because it has been tried and tested they know the side effects etc to look out for and the dosage needed.

a lot of natural medicines warn against side effects and about dosage , this is why i don't believe just any Tom Dick or Harry are able to advise on them and the websites we post do have these warnings , i do believe there are specialists in this area , its not something can be taken lightly of course they are serious and people are trained in this area .

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Then why are you so against natural remedies? I don't get it.

No, I'm against untried, untested 'alternative therapies'.   I've said over and over again that 'natural remedies' when tried and tested become medication, which, because it has been tried and tested they know the side effects etc to look out for and the dosage needed.

OK. The original question in the other thread was about providing natural remedies on the NHS. Obviously, I would not agree with providing untested ones or ones which have not been proved to be effective or safe, but do you not think there is a case for developing natural remedies at all? As I said, the difficulty would be getting a large company to undertake trials because people can already buy herbal stuff over the counter, but if they did, it could be promising.

The other question was - what natural remedies have people claimed cure them of cancer? I mean people who got stuff from herbalists or alternative therapists?

http://sorendreier.com/spain-study-confirms-cannabis-oil-cures-cancer/

Raggamuffin wrote:Can't we have concrete facts instead of the bickering? Nobody is stupid, we just all have different ideas and questions.

THANK YOU

It is seeming, more and more, that we are supposed to believe something because a man in a white coat says so.
Yes, on the whole and in the main, of course doctors know more than the average Dave.

But!

I don't believe them all of the time.
I don't believe they have all of the answers.
I don't believe they always know the outcome of what a particular medicine will do and use humans as guinea pigs all the time.
I don't believe that pharma companies SOLE intention is making people better - I think they make shed loads of money off certain medicines like chemo.
I don't believe scientists and people like that, who tell me that eating bread crusts is good for me when two days later they tell me that too many crusts will give me warts on my nose and then three years later they tell me again they don't actually bloody know how warts appear and whether crusts are good or not?

In other words; listen to your doctors and then do your own research, listen to your body, and understand that doctors aren't God and often, scientists wing it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

No, I'm against untried, untested 'alternative therapies'.   I've said over and over again that 'natural remedies' when tried and tested become medication, which, because it has been tried and tested they know the side effects etc to look out for and the dosage needed.

OK. The original question in the other thread was about providing natural remedies on the NHS. Obviously, I would not agree with providing untested ones or ones which have not been proved to be effective or safe, but do you not think there is a case for developing natural remedies at all? As I said, the difficulty would be getting a large company to undertake trials because people can already buy herbal stuff over the counter, but if they did, it could be promising.

The other question was - what natural remedies have people claimed cure them of cancer? I mean people who got stuff from herbalists or alternative therapists?

Look, I hate to be rude, but I don't know how many more ways of saying it. THAT IS WHAT HAPPENS NOW, they find out what chemical it is in the herb or whatever that does the good, and test it for side effects, dosage etc etc etc etc etc.

There are only so many ways of saying the same thing.

how independent are the testers, i guess i am asking who watches the watchers...

but rules can be broken when it is deemed necessary, during the outbreak of foot and mouth they wanted to mass immunise and admitted it had not been properly tested but was necessary..

BigAndy9 wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:I haven't read the whole thing here as i am looking after my grandson , but this shows there must be a huge interest in alternative medicines

http://www.cancerresearchuk.org/cancer-help/about-cancer/treatment/complementary-alternative/research/about-researching-complementary-and-alternative-therapies

My summing up of this thread/debate is thus:

Most of us would prefer to go down the route of whatever the NHS recommends.

If your ailment affords you the time and the NHS treatment doesn't cure it, I think even I would try alternative medicines.

We shouldn't dismiss other people's wishes to try them out and I think most of us are old enough to decide for ourselves what is best for us, so when somebody "preaches" that putting holy water on the end of your elbow will cure cancer, we shouldn't call them b4st4rd evil people!

Yes. Simple as that.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Can't we have concrete facts instead of the bickering? Nobody is stupid, we just all have different ideas and questions.

THANK YOU

It is seeming, more and more, that we are supposed to believe something because a man in a white coat says so.
Yes, on the whole and in the main, of course doctors know more than the average Dave.

But!

I don't believe them all of the time. Dangerous, basing this on no sound knowledge
I don't believe they have all of the answers. You have none
I don't believe they always know the outcome of what a particular medicine will do and use humans as guinea pigs all the time. They have a much better idea than you
I don't believe that pharma companies SOLE intention is making people better - But Doctors and Nurses do and i think that is also disgusting to say where many have worked their arses off to help people is appalling and you are basing this on an assumption not facts   think they make shed loads of money off certain medicines like chemo.
I don't believe scientists and people like that, who tell me that eating bread crusts is good for me when two days later they tell me that too many crusts will give me warts on my nose and then three years later they tell me again they don't actually bloody know how warts appear and whether crusts are good or not? Well anything in moderation is okay, what you miss and what they tell you is that you heighten the risk by doing so for some people, that may not mean you or me, but for some it does showing you are not even understanding what they are saying

In other words; listen to your doctors and then do your own research, listen to your body, and understand that doctors aren't God and often, scientists wing it.

Yes listen to your Doctors, first sound advise you have said on this Eddie, on the rest again your body only knows what it reacts to, you do not understand the workings of your body.
They may not be God, but compared to you they are like a parent and you are 2 just trying to learn, they will know better, the vast majority of times and sorry I really find what you advise not only bad but also dangerous Eddie, which is what many GP's would also say to you. Nothing worse than people with no knowledge on something trying to advise others.

PhilDidge wrote:

eddie wrote:

THANK YOU

It is seeming, more and more, that we are supposed to believe something because a man in a white coat says so.
Yes, on the whole and in the main, of course doctors know more than the average Dave.

But!

I don't believe them all of the time. Dangerous, basing this on no sound knowledge
I don't believe they have all of the answers. You have none
I don't believe they always know the outcome of what a particular medicine will do and use humans as guinea pigs all the time. They have a much better idea than you
I don't believe that pharma companies SOLE intention is making people better - But Doctors and Nurses do and i think that is also disgusting to say where many have worked their arses off to help people is appalling and you are basing this on an assumption not facts   think they make shed loads of money off certain medicines like chemo.
I don't believe scientists and people like that, who tell me that eating bread crusts is good for me when two days later they tell me that too many crusts will give me warts on my nose and then three years later they tell me again they don't actually bloody know how warts appear and whether crusts are good or not? Well anything in moderation is okay, what you miss and what they tell you is that you heighten the risk by doing so for some people, that may not mean you or me, but for some it does showing you are not even understanding what they are saying

In other words; listen to your doctors and then do your own research, listen to your body, and understand that doctors aren't God and often, scientists wing it.

Yes listen to your Doctors, first sound advise you have said on this Eddie, on the rest again your body only knows what it reacts to, you do not understand the workings of your body.
They may not be God, but compared to you they are like a parent and you are 2 just trying to learn, they will know better, the vast majority of times and sorry I really find what you advise not only bad but also dangerous Eddie, which is what many GP's would also back. Nothing worse than people with no knowledge on something trying to advise others

totally disagree i think your body can tell you what you need..  

heavenly father wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:



Yes listen to your Doctors, first sound advise you have said on this Eddie, on the rest again your body only knows what it reacts to, you do not understand the workings of your body.
They may not be God, but compared to you they are like a parent and you are 2 just trying to learn, they will know better, the vast majority of times and sorry I really find what you advise not only bad but also dangerous Eddie, which is what many GP's would also back. Nothing worse than people with no knowledge on something trying to advise others

totally disagree i think your body can tell you what you need..  

Again dangerous, do you understand the working of your brain?

All you can do is guess, that again is dangerous, based upon the fact you have very limited medical knowledge