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How southern cops go bad when dealing with blacks

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Post by Original Quill Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

This happened on Sunday, in southern Virginia.  A military officer was pulled over for not having a license plate...when he did have a license plate (as shown in video) and the cops just missed it.  The police in America are hostile and provoking black stops...just to show white superiority over blacks...maybe kill one.  The cop calls it in as a "felony stop".  A FELONY for having a license??  It was a ruse, in order to harass, and possibly kill a black.

Cops are conducting a war on black lives.



This is the south.  This is why black men are losing their lives, at the drop of a hat, in southern states.


Last edited by Original Quill on Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:34 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Southern cops are human beings like the rest of us.  But we all live, and are creatures of the culture we were raised in.  The unique culture of the south is, inter alia, (1) impatience with abstract thinking, and (2) [perhaps as a result] resort to anger and violence.

I'm not familiar with the Timpa case, but with the Dallas police, that might be a factor.

The video taken from the police cam was covered up for 3 years and only released after a local newspaper campaigned for the events to be made public..
There are lots of footage including the actual video of his arrest and treatment before and after his death  online.

Why aren't you familiar with the Timpa case?

"The responding officers mocked the 32-year-old as he screamed for his life, with one officer’s knee pinned in his back for about 14 minutes as he lay face down in the grass, according to court records. They joked after he became unresponsive that he was going to be late for school, the lawsuit says."


^ sound familar?

Are you familiar with Kelly Thomas?

Daniel Shaver?

Ryan Whitaker?

Duncan Lemp?

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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:51 am

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:

The video taken from the police cam was covered up for 3 years and only released after a local newspaper campaigned for the events to be made public..
There are lots of footage including the actual video of his arrest and treatment before and after his death  online.

Why aren't you familiar with the  Timpa case?

"The responding officers mocked the 32-year-old as he screamed for his life, with one officer’s knee pinned in his back for about 14 minutes as he lay face down in the grass, according to court records. They joked after he became unresponsive that he was going to be late for school, the lawsuit says."


^ sound familar?

Are you familiar with Kelly Thomas?

Daniel Shaver?

Ryan Whitaker?

Duncan Lemp?

Were they gay?  Perhaps Jewish?  Remember, southern ranks are primarily defined by white supremacists, and that leaves a lot of 'others' outside the gates.

How southern cops go bad when dealing with blacks - Page 2 Rope

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:12 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Why aren't you familiar with the  Timpa case?

"The responding officers mocked the 32-year-old as he screamed for his life, with one officer’s knee pinned in his back for about 14 minutes as he lay face down in the grass, according to court records. They joked after he became unresponsive that he was going to be late for school, the lawsuit says."


^ sound familar?

Are you familiar with Kelly Thomas?

Daniel Shaver?

Ryan Whitaker?

Duncan Lemp?

Were they gay?  Perhaps Jewish?  Remember, southern ranks are primarily defined by white supremacists, and that leaves a lot of 'others' outside the gates.

How southern cops go bad when dealing with blacks - Page 2 Rope

If you're ignorant of their cases, perhaps you should do a little research?

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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:23 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Southern cops are human beings like the rest of us.  But we all live, and are creatures of the culture we were raised in.  The unique culture of the south is, inter alia, (1) impatience with abstract thinking, and (2) [perhaps as a result] resort to anger and violence.

I'm not familiar with the Timpa case, but with the Dallas police, that might be a factor.

The video taken from the police cam was covered up for 3 years and only released after a local newspaper campaigned for the events to be made public..
There are lots of footage including the actual video of his arrest and treatment before and after his death  online.

Very typical of southern authorities...to actively cover up.  They have a lot of experience in: look over there, don't look over here!

I don't doubt it.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Syl Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:40 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

The video taken from the police cam was covered up for 3 years and only released after a local newspaper campaigned for the events to be made public..
There are lots of footage including the actual video of his arrest and treatment before and after his death  online.

Very typical of southern authorities...to actively cover up.  They have a lot of experience in: look over there, don't look over here!

I don't doubt it.

The point was, even after the video was released, the white mans death didn't seem to outrage many people, whereas George Floyd's death certainly did, to the tune of 27 million dollars compensation, and the cop being charged with murder.

I don't know how that can equate to police and authorities treating black men less than white men.

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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:53 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Very typical of southern authorities...to actively cover up.  They have a lot of experience in: look over there, don't look over here!

I don't doubt it.

The point was, even after the video was released,  the white mans death didn't seem to outrage many people, whereas George Floyd's death certainly did, to the tune of 27 million dollars compensation, and the cop being charged with murder.

I don't know how that can equate to police and authorities treating black men less than white men.

I suspect he was gay, and they either suppressed that, or it came out and people in Dallas didn't care. Probably the former.

I reckoned the murder of Botham Jean was a professional hit. Look how easily Dallas has forgotten that crime. Southerners are not quick, no matter the issue.

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“Little thieves are hanged, but great thieves are praised.” — Old Russian proverb, offered by Vladimir Putin to Donald Trump, Helsinki, July, 2018.

"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by eddie Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:57 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

The video taken from the police cam was covered up for 3 years and only released after a local newspaper campaigned for the events to be made public..
There are lots of footage including the actual video of his arrest and treatment before and after his death  online.

Very typical of southern authorities...to actively cover up.  They have a lot of experience in: look over there, don't look over here!

I don't doubt it.

The point was, even after the video was released,  the white mans death didn't seem to outrage many people, whereas George Floyd's death certainly did, to the tune of 27 million dollars compensation, and the cop being charged with murder.

I don't know how that can equate to police and authorities treating black men less than white men.


Maybe because he was white, no one could physically wring their hands? How southern cops go bad when dealing with blacks - Page 2 2190311264

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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:02 pm

When a white cop kills a white suspect, or a black cop kills a black suspect, nobody suspects racism as a motive. When the races are different, that suspicion comes up naturally.

Black people are still three times more likely to be killed by police in American than are white people.

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Post by Syl Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:04 pm

eddie wrote:
Syl wrote:

The point was, even after the video was released,  the white mans death didn't seem to outrage many people, whereas George Floyd's death certainly did, to the tune of 27 million dollars compensation, and the cop being charged with murder.

I don't know how that can equate to police and authorities treating black men less than white men.


Maybe because he was white, no one could physically wring their hands? How southern cops go bad when dealing with blacks - Page 2 2190311264

Maddog said similar earlier in the thread...."one dead man had more political value".

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

The point was, even after the video was released,  the white mans death didn't seem to outrage many people, whereas George Floyd's death certainly did, to the tune of 27 million dollars compensation, and the cop being charged with murder.

I don't know how that can equate to police and authorities treating black men less than white men.

I suspect he was gay, and they either suppressed that, or it came out and people in Dallas didn't care.  Probably the former.

I reckoned the murder of Botham Jean was a professional hit.  Look how easily Dallas has forgotten that crime.  Southerners are not quick, no matter the issue.

What should Dallas have done, that it hasn't done in regards to the Botham Jean case?

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:06 pm

Syl wrote:
eddie wrote:


Maybe because he was white, no one could physically wring their hands? How southern cops go bad when dealing with blacks - Page 2 2190311264

Maddog said similar earlier in the thread...."one dead man had more political value".

They definitely have more value to some posters on here too.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:08 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:When a white cop kills a white suspect, or a black cop kills a black suspect, nobody suspects racism as a motive. When the races are different, that suspicion comes up naturally.

Black people are still three times more likely to be killed by police in American than are white people.


It's not natural to me. I don't ever assume racism is behind anything, until there is actual evidence that it exists.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:09 pm

Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:

The video taken from the police cam was covered up for 3 years and only released after a local newspaper campaigned for the events to be made public..
There are lots of footage including the actual video of his arrest and treatment before and after his death  online.

Why aren't you familiar with the  Timpa case?

"The responding officers mocked the 32-year-old as he screamed for his life, with one officer’s knee pinned in his back for about 14 minutes as he lay face down in the grass, according to court records. They joked after he became unresponsive that he was going to be late for school, the lawsuit says."


^ sound familar?

Are you familiar with Kelly Thomas?

Daniel Shaver?

Ryan Whitaker?

Duncan Lemp?

Well?

_________________
pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
Maddog
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Post by eddie Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:17 pm

Maddog wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Syl wrote:

The video taken from the police cam was covered up for 3 years and only released after a local newspaper campaigned for the events to be made public..
There are lots of footage including the actual video of his arrest and treatment before and after his death  online.

Why aren't you familiar with the  Timpa case?

"The responding officers mocked the 32-year-old as he screamed for his life, with one officer’s knee pinned in his back for about 14 minutes as he lay face down in the grass, according to court records. They joked after he became unresponsive that he was going to be late for school, the lawsuit says."


^ sound familar?

Are you familiar with Kelly Thomas?

Daniel Shaver?

Ryan Whitaker?

Duncan Lemp?

Well?

Were they white?

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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:26 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I suspect he was gay, and they either suppressed that, or it came out and people in Dallas didn't care.  Probably the former.

I reckoned the murder of Botham Jean was a professional hit.  Look how easily Dallas has forgotten that crime.  Southerners are not quick, no matter the issue.

What should Dallas have done, that it hasn't done in regards to the Botham Jean case?

I don't think the Dallas authorities were motivated to do anything.  Depending on how high up it went, they might even have been in on it.  With a corrupt government, and an unthinking audience— https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t29678-attention-5-ways-obsession-with-politics-can-ruin-your-life —it's easy to get away with things.

If Dallas meets those conditions, they might have a problem.

_________________
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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

"I don't stand by anything."  ― Donald Trump, interview with John Dickerson, 5.1.17...

“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:32 pm

eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Well?

Were they white?

Yup. Surely they are household names in the UK. Wink

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:32 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

What should Dallas have done, that it hasn't done in regards to the Botham Jean case?

I don't think the Dallas authorities were motivated to do anything.  Depending on how high up it went, they might even have been in on it.  With a corrupt government, and an unthinking audience— https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t29678-attention-5-ways-obsession-with-politics-can-ruin-your-life —it's easy to get away with things.

If Dallas meets those conditions, they might have a problem.

Answer the question.

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Post by eddie Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:34 pm

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Well?

Were they white?

Yup. Surely they are household names in the UK.  Wink

Hmmmm, no....I’m guessing there wasn’t a big outrage on social media about it, so it hardly mattered.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:34 pm

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:

Were they white?

Yup. Surely they are household names in the UK.  Wink

And none were killed in the south.

Two in AZ, one In CA and MD.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:36 pm

eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yup. Surely they are household names in the UK.  Wink

Hmmmm, no....I’m guessing there wasn’t a big outrage on social media about it, so it hardly mattered.

It was on my social media. But so was George Floyd.

There were no real marches or protests.

I'm one of those weird fuckers that are concerned with brutality against all citizens in all regions of the country.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:38 pm

Eddie, have you never seen the video of Daniel Shaver?

His killers walked free and one is collecting a pension from the PTSD caused by him shooting Shaver.

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Post by eddie Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:47 pm

Maddog wrote:
eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Yup. Surely they are household names in the UK.  Wink

Hmmmm, no....I’m guessing there wasn’t a big outrage on social media about it, so it hardly mattered.

It was on my social media. But so was George Floyd.

There were no real marches or protests.  

I'm one of those weird fuckers that are concerned with brutality against all citizens in all regions of the country.

I was being sarcastic. I knew what you were getting at Maddog.

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Post by eddie Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:48 pm

Maddog wrote:Eddie, have you never seen the video of Daniel Shaver?

His killers walked free and one is collecting a pension from the PTSD caused by him shooting Shaver.  

No I haven’t.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:52 pm

eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:Eddie, have you never seen the video of Daniel Shaver?

His killers walked free and one is collecting a pension from the PTSD caused by him shooting Shaver.  

No I haven’t.

I'll post it in a minute. Please watch it, even though it's difficult to watch.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:59 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/judge-releases-video-of-police-shooting-of-daniel-shaver-after-officer-acquitted/2017/12/08/3e715e7a-dc3e-11e7-a241-0848315642d0_video.html


Watch this Eddie.

And anyone else that hasn't seen it.

It's horrific, but we need to see ALL injustices to people.

It's only 4 minutes.

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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:02 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:When a white cop kills a white suspect, or a black cop kills a black suspect, nobody suspects racism as a motive. When the races are different, that suspicion comes up naturally.

Black people are still three times more likely to be killed by police in American than are white people.


It's not natural to me. I don't ever assume racism is behind anything, until there is actual evidence that it exists.

The state of race relations in America and you don't even wonder whether racism played a factor in shootings like this?

I don't believe you.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:04 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:


It's not natural to me. I don't ever assume racism is behind anything, until there is actual evidence that it exists.

The state of race relations in America and you don't even wonder whether racism played a factor in shootings like this?

I don't believe you.

It's not my default position. I haven't been conditioned to think that way.

Or I have resisted the conditioning.

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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:06 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:


It's not natural to me. I don't ever assume racism is behind anything, until there is actual evidence that it exists.

The state of race relations in America and you don't even wonder whether racism played a factor in shootings like this?

I don't believe you.

It's not my default position. I haven't been conditioned to think that way.  

Or I have resisted the conditioning.

So you've trained yourself to not wonder whether racism might have been a factor when a person of one race kills a person of another race?

You're self-blindered?

If so, you'd make a shit detective.

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Post by eddie Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:07 pm

Maddog wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/judge-releases-video-of-police-shooting-of-daniel-shaver-after-officer-acquitted/2017/12/08/3e715e7a-dc3e-11e7-a241-0848315642d0_video.html


Watch this Eddie.

And anyone else that hasn't seen it.

It's horrific, but we need to see ALL injustices to people.  

It's only 4 minutes.  

How on earth did the police officer get away with that? I simply don’t understand.

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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:09 pm

Police get away with all sorts of things in America. Perhaps judges and juries don't want to think cops are just as capable of doing bad things as the general public is.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:14 pm

eddie wrote:
Maddog wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/national/judge-releases-video-of-police-shooting-of-daniel-shaver-after-officer-acquitted/2017/12/08/3e715e7a-dc3e-11e7-a241-0848315642d0_video.html


Watch this Eddie.

And anyone else that hasn't seen it.

It's horrific, but we need to see ALL injustices to people.  

It's only 4 minutes.  

How on earth did the police officer get away with that? I simply don’t understand.

I have no idea.

Why was there no outrage at

A: it happening in the first place.

B: the not guilty verdict.


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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:19 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:Police get away with all sorts of things in America. Perhaps judges and juries don't want to think cops are just as capable of doing bad things as the general public is.

It's bad laws.

Qualified immunity being one of the worst.

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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:25 pm

I actually have seen a ton of outrage at the death of Daniel Shavers, often outrage at the supposed lack of outrage.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:29 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:I actually have seen a ton of outrage at the death of Daniel Shavers, often outrage at the supposed lack of outrage.

So much outrage that most Americans couldn't name him.

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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:29 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I don't think the Dallas authorities were motivated to do anything.  Depending on how high up it went, they might even have been in on it.  With a corrupt government, and an unthinking audience— https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t29678-attention-5-ways-obsession-with-politics-can-ruin-your-life —it's easy to get away with things.

If Dallas meets those conditions, they might have a problem.

Answer the question.

I have.  The answer is, the Dallas Police theory of the killing of Botham Jean just doesn't add up.  Jean was  an accountant for PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC).  Accountants often discover irregularities regarding money.  Was Botham Jean working on something that involved city or other corporate finances?  Did he uncover some wrongdoing, which would motivate some bad guys to put out a contract on him?

First, the Dallas Police attempted to smear Jean's reputation by publicizing a police affidavit showing that police seized 10.4 grams of marijuana from Jean's apartment.  Then, second, they went with the story that Officer Amber Guyger mistook Jean's apartment door for her own, when the clear evidence was she went pounding on the door, and yelling to be let in...why knock on the door of your own apartment?  Her apartment wasn't even on the same floor.

As I predicted, Guyger was given 10-years for killing Mr. Jean, which will be cut in half under today's incarceration rules, and she will receive probably 2-years off for good behavior, meaning she will serve 3-years total.  If she receives $500,000 for 3-years work, that's a pretty good deal.

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Post by Ben Reilly Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:42 pm

Maddog wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:I actually have seen a ton of outrage at the death of Daniel Shavers, often outrage at the supposed lack of outrage.

So much outrage that most Americans couldn't name him.

And how do you know that?

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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:44 pm

Instead of looking anecdotally at this shooting or that, why don't we take a look at the overall picture:

Penn Medicine News wrote:Fatal Police Shootings Among Black Americans Remain High, Unchanged Since 2015

Black victims in the United States were killed at three times the rate of white individuals, prompting researchers to declare police brutality as a “public health emergency”

Police shootings of unarmed Black people in the United States were three times higher than that of white people between 2015 and the beginning of 2020, according to a new report from researchers at the University of Pennsylvania’s Perelman School of Medicine, Yale University, and Drexel University. The study shows that, despite a more widespread use of body cameras and increased media attention of police brutality over the past five years, violent encounters with police continue to represent significant causes of injury and death in the United States, particularly for Black, Indigenous, and People of Color (BIPOC).

* * * *

Half of the victims of the shooting fatalities were white (51 percent), followed by Black (27 percent), Hispanic (19 percent), Asian (2 percent) and Native American (nearly 2 percent). Black Americans make up only 14 [sic, actually 13] percent of the U.S., showing the disproportionate impact of police killings on this population.

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2020/october/fatal-police-shootings-among-black-americans-remain-high-unchanged-since-2015

How many of those were like the Windsor, VA stop, or the Brooklyn Center, MN "accidental' shooting?


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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:03 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Maddog wrote:

So much outrage that most Americans couldn't name him.

And how do you know that?

I used Quillology.

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Answer the question.

I have.  The answer is, the Dallas Police theory of the killing of Botham Jean just doesn't add up.  Jean was  an accountant for PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC).  Accountants often discover irregularities regarding money.  Was Botham Jean working on something that involved city or other corporate finances?  Did he uncover some wrongdoing, which would motivate some bad guys to put out a contract on him?

First, the Dallas Police attempted to smear Jean's reputation by publicizing a police affidavit showing that police seized 10.4 grams of marijuana from Jean's apartment.  Then, second, they went with the story that Officer Amber Guyger mistook Jean's apartment door for her own, when the clear evidence was she went pounding on the door, and yelling to be let in...why knock on the door of your own apartment?  Her apartment wasn't even on the same floor.

As I predicted, Guyger was given 10-years for killing Mr. Jean, which will be cut in half under today's incarceration rules, and she will receive probably 2-years off for good behavior, meaning she will serve 3-years total.  If she receives $500,000 for 3-years work, that's a pretty good deal.

So who paid her?

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Post by Maddog Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:Instead of looking anecdotally at this shooting or that, why don't we take a look at the overall picture:

Penn Medicine News wrote:Fatal Police Shootings Among Black Americans Remain High, Unchanged Since 2015

Black victims in the United States were killed at three times the rate of white individuals, prompting researchers to declare police brutality as a “public health emergency”

Police shootings of unarmed Black people in the United States were three times higher than that of white people between 2015 and the beginning of 2020, according to a new report from researchers at the University of Pennsylvania’s Perelman School of Medicine, Yale University, and Drexel University. The study shows that, despite a more widespread use of body cameras and increased media attention of police brutality over the past five years, violent encounters with police continue to represent significant causes of injury and death in the United States, particularly for Black, Indigenous, and People of Color (BIPOC).

* * * *

Half of the victims of the shooting fatalities were white (51 percent), followed by Black (27 percent), Hispanic (19 percent), Asian (2 percent) and Native American (nearly 2 percent). Black Americans make up only 14 [sic, actually 13] percent of the U.S., showing the disproportionate impact of police killings on this population.

https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/news-releases/2020/october/fatal-police-shootings-among-black-americans-remain-high-unchanged-since-2015

How many of those were like the Windsor, VA stop, or the Brooklyn Center, MN "accidental' shooting?


Fatal shootings of black people is far higher than whites, regardless of the shooter..

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Post by Original Quill Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:22 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:Instead of looking anecdotally at this shooting or that, why don't we take a look at the overall picture:



How many of those were like the Windsor, VA stop, or the Brooklyn Center, MN "accidental' shooting?


Fatal shootings of black people is far higher than whites, regardless of the shooter..

Whataboutism. The issue is, is it justified?

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Post by Maddog Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:48 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Fatal shootings of black people is far higher than whites, regardless of the shooter..

Whataboutism.  The issue is, is it justified?

Is what justified? People shooting black people?

I'd say no in most cases.

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Post by Original Quill Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:15 am

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Whataboutism. The issue is, is it justified?

Is what justified? People shooting black people?

I'd say no in most cases.

So, we get to a premise that we can finally agree on. Now, let's hone in: are the shootings of black people by police justified? That is the topic.

I think the last two weeks have shown an amazing differential of treatment of blacks by white cops. We've had the murder trial of Derek Chauvin, who murdered a defenseless black man. We've had the stopping of a military officer in Windsor, VA, and the uncalled-for rant of a southern redneck in uniform. We've had the unexplained killing of a black by Brooklyn Center, MN police, with the unbelievable excuse: I thought my black, heavy, Glock firearm, was a light, yellow, plastic taser. We've had a defenseless black juvenile, killed by Chicago police, with his hands raised in the air, clearly holding no weapon. What have I missed?

We agree these rants and killings are not justified, now...what are we going to do about it?

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Post by Maddog Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:27 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Is what justified? People shooting black people?

I'd say no in most cases.  

So, we get to a premise that we can finally agree on.  Now, let's hone in: are the shootings of black people by police justified?  That is the topic.

I think the last two weeks have shown an amazing differential of treatment of blacks by white cops.  We've had the murder trial of Derek Chauvin, who murdered a defenseless black man.  We've had the stopping of a military officer in Windsor, VA, and the uncalled-for rant of a southern redneck in uniform.  We've had the unexplained killing of a black by Brooklyn Center, MN police, with the unbelievable excuse: I thought my black, heavy, Glock firearm, was a light, yellow, plastic taser.  We've had a defenseless black juvenile, killed by Chicago police, with his hands raised in the air, clearly holding no weapon.  What have I missed?

We agree these rants and killings are not justified, now...what are we going to do about it?

Probably not anything effective. Since there has been intensive scrutiny and counting of police shootings, the number of killings has stayed stable. About 1000 per year.

And the civilian killings of others civilians is on the rise for the first time in decades.

Americans are angry and divided and our leaders keep stoking the flames.

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Post by Original Quill Fri Apr 16, 2021 1:19 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

So, we get to a premise that we can finally agree on.  Now, let's hone in: are the shootings of black people by police justified?  That is the topic.

I think the last two weeks have shown an amazing differential of treatment of blacks by white cops.  We've had the murder trial of Derek Chauvin, who murdered a defenseless black man.  We've had the stopping of a military officer in Windsor, VA, and the uncalled-for rant of a southern redneck in uniform.  We've had the unexplained killing of a black by Brooklyn Center, MN police, with the unbelievable excuse: I thought my black, heavy, Glock firearm, was a light, yellow, plastic taser.  We've had a defenseless black juvenile, killed by Chicago police, with his hands raised in the air, clearly holding no weapon.  What have I missed?

We agree these rants and killings are not justified, now...what are we going to do about it?

Probably not anything effective.  Since there has been intensive scrutiny and counting of police shootings, the number of killings has stayed stable. About 1000 per year.  

And the civilian killings of others civilians is on  the rise for the first time in decades.  

Americans are angry and divided and our leaders keep stoking the flames.

Or...we could reconfigure the job of policing.

If we had that failure rate in any other industry or job, OSHA would shut it down. There's nothing special about policing, especially with a success rate of some 34%. Time for a change.

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Post by Maddog Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:06 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Probably not anything effective.  Since there has been intensive scrutiny and counting of police shootings, the number of killings has stayed stable. About 1000 per year.  

And the civilian killings of others civilians is on  the rise for the first time in decades.  

Americans are angry and divided and our leaders keep stoking the flames.

Or...we could reconfigure the job of policing.

If we had that failure rate in any other industry or job, OSHA would shut it down.  There's nothing special about policing, especially with a success rate of some 34%.  Time for a change.

True. Ban public sector unions and get rid of qualified immunity.

And legalize most drugs and decrease the number of stupid laws that increase the number of police and citizen interactions.

All of those have been part of the libertarian platform for decades.

But race baiters can't profit or gain power from those actions.

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Post by Original Quill Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:02 pm

Maddog wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

Or...we could reconfigure the job of policing.

If we had that failure rate in any other industry or job, OSHA would shut it down.  There's nothing special about policing, especially with a success rate of some 34%.  Time for a change.

True. Ban public sector unions and get rid of qualified immunity.

I see no reason to ban unions, but qualified immunity is too often used to justify murder. I think it should be outlawed on the federal level.

Maddog wrote:And legalize most drugs and decrease the number of stupid laws that increase the number of police and citizen interactions.  

Well, alcohol is legal. What's the difference??

Maddog wrote:All of those have been part of the libertarian platform for decades.

So have a lot of bad laws. But I agree, you can find a lot of libertarian tenets that are congruent with my wish-list. It's just that they go another way when it comes to economic/regulatory matters.

Maddog wrote:But race baiters can't profit or gain power from those actions.  

Sounds like a Louisiana, fat-cracker politician, circa 1920's. Yee-all have a fynnne day, heeah?

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Post by Maddog Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:55 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:

True. Ban public sector unions and get rid of qualified immunity.

I see no reason to ban unions, but qualified immunity is too often used to justify murder.  I think it should be outlawed on the federal level.

Maddog wrote:And legalize most drugs and decrease the number of stupid laws that increase the number of police and citizen interactions.  

Well, alcohol is legal.  What's the difference??

Maddog wrote:All of those have been part of the libertarian platform for decades.

So have a lot of bad laws.  But I agree, you can find a lot of libertarian tenets that are congruent with my wish-list.  It's just that they go another way when it comes to economic/regulatory matters.

Maddog wrote:But race baiters can't profit or gain power from those actions.  

Sounds like a Louisiana, fat-cracker politician, circa 1920's.  Yee-all have a fynnne day, heeah?

Unions make it too difficult to fire bad cops.

Private sector unions are fine. Public servants should never be allowed to form unions. The idea of a public servant is to serve the public. Unions put public workers in an adversarial position with the public.

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Post by Original Quill Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:38 am

Maddog wrote:Unions make it too difficult to fire bad cops.  

Private sector unions are fine.  Public servants should never be allowed to form unions. The idea of a public servant is to serve the public. Unions put public workers in an adversarial position with the public.

This from a libertarian?  Unions are built upon the same idea of the First Amendment, freedom to associate.  In a libertarian world, would people be prevented from associating?

The fact is, it's not the unionizing that is is the evil, but the fact that the unions are permitted way too much interference in public/individual rights.  This relates to a bigger problem, that police chauvinism supersedes public well-being.  Politicians and police (and the public) give too much weight to the functions of authoritarian policing, and too little weight to the impact on the public rights.

This is why reordering police departments is the only way things will change.  Demonstrators say ban the police, but that is with a little bit of bitterness mixed in; what the politicians should be doing, is to refocus the job of policing, taking away some powers that should fall to social workers and mental health providers.  To send police out there--whose first purpose is conflict and combat--is a recipe for disaster.

The British system of policing is built upon conflict resolution, not conflict escalation.  It's a much wiser way to go.

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"What's yours is mine, and what's mine is mine." ― Old Republican proverb.

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“That's libertarians for you — anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.” ― Kim Stanley Robinson, Green Mars (1993).

Original Quill

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Post by Maddog Sat Apr 17, 2021 11:42 am

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:Unions make it too difficult to fire bad cops.  

Private sector unions are fine.  Public servants should never be allowed to form unions. The idea of a public servant is to serve the public. Unions put public workers in an adversarial position with the public.

This from a libertarian?  Unions are built upon the same idea of the First Amendment, freedom to associate.  In a libertarian world, would people be prevented from associating?

The fact is, it's not the unionizing that is is the evil, but the fact that the unions are permitted way too much interference in public/individual rights.  This relates to a bigger problem, that police chauvinism supersedes public well-being.  Politicians and police (and the public) give too much weight to the functions of autharitarian policing, and too little weight to the impact on the public rights.

This is why reordering police departments is the only way things will change.  Demonstrators say ban the police, but that is with a little bit of bitterness mixed in; what the politicians should be doing, is to refocus the job of policing, taking away some powers that should fall to social workers and mental health providers.  To send police out there--whose first purpose is conflict and combat--is a recipe for disaster.

The British system of policing is built upon conflict resolution, not conflict escalation.  It's a much wiser way to go.

In a libertarian world private workers could associate.

Government workers are public servants and can't organize against the needs of the public.


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pa·ter·nal·ism

noun

The policy or practice on the part of people in positions of authority of restricting the freedom and responsibilities of those subordinate to them in the subordinates' supposed best interest.
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