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Escape into virtual reality rather than confront real-world problems, tech billionaires say

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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:47 am

WIRED:

Tech billionaires aren’t shy about sharing this. “Some people read this the wrong way and react incorrectly to it. The promise of VR is to make the world you wanted. It is not possible, on Earth, to give everyone all that they would want. Not everyone can have Richard Branson’s private island,” Doom co-creator and former CTO of Oculus John Carmack told Joe Rogan during a 2020 interview. “People react negatively to any talk of economics, but it is resource allocation. You have to make decisions about where things go. Economically, you can deliver a lot more value to a lot of people in the virtual sense.”

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Post by Korben Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:52 am

Have you ever seen the movie "Ready player one" its really good and is exactly what you/they are talking about
And the movie "Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets" has something  similar in it as well


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Post by HoratioTarr Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:55 am

We have enough problems in the world due to people living in fantasy worlds, without encouraging more.
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Post by Korben Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:59 am

HoratioTarr wrote:We have enough problems in the world due to people living in fantasy worlds, without encouraging more.
I dont know, they may be something in letting people live out there fantasy's where they are not really harming anybody ,and video games can be good in letting people get rid of anger and frustration
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Post by Syl Tue Feb 16, 2021 3:57 am

I know a few people (all male) who live half their lives in a virtual reality world.
It's like they live more in that world than the real world.

It's an unproductive way to live.

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Post by Korben Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:10 am

Syl wrote:I know a few people (all male) who live half their lives in a virtual reality world.
It's like they live more in that world than the real world.

It's an unproductive way to live.
Well for the most part sure .although that said Gamers can make millions of pounds playing on line On average, a gamer can make anywhere from a couple thousand to $15,000 per hour. A brand's overall commitment to a single streamer could total as much as $500,000. “It's become something that nobody predicted.

Also game walk throughs and instruction videos on playing games on platforms like You tube and daily motion you can make a tidy sum
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Post by Syl Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:49 am

Korban wrote:
Syl wrote:I know a few people (all male) who live half their lives in a virtual reality world.
It's like they live more in that world than the real world.

It's an unproductive way to live.
Well for the most part sure .although that said Gamers can make millions of pounds playing on line  On average, a gamer can make anywhere from a couple thousand to $15,000 per hour. A brand's overall commitment to a single streamer could total as much as $500,000. “It's become something that nobody predicted.

Also game walk throughs and instruction videos on playing games on platforms like You tube and daily motion you  can make a tidy sum

for everyone who makes profit from online games there will be many thousands who just slump in front of their computers and waste their lives playing pointless games, and spending money they have either earned or been given.

It's an addiction imo....one that can lull people into a false sense of reality and take over from real life.

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Post by Korben Tue Feb 16, 2021 5:43 am

Syl wrote:
Korban wrote:
Well for the most part sure .although that said Gamers can make millions of pounds playing on line  On average, a gamer can make anywhere from a couple thousand to $15,000 per hour. A brand's overall commitment to a single streamer could total as much as $500,000. “It's become something that nobody predicted.

Also game walk throughs and instruction videos on playing games on platforms like You tube and daily motion you  can make a tidy sum

for everyone who makes profit from online games there will be many thousands who just slump in front of their computers and waste their lives playing pointless games, and spending money they have either earned or been given.

It's an addiction imo....one that can lull people into a false sense of reality and take over from real life.
Absolutely i agree the majority dont make money i use to play games a lot especially Red Alert and i was really.......really really good at it, but i never made a penny .i also was a game tester (paid) for a couple of years and in fact that's the only time i made money playing games (although i am credited on the game) Fortunately i dont have an addictive personality so i find it easy to give up things when i am board with them. but i still play games "world of warships" and "Warcraft" and online poker(free version)

I am however "slumped"(lol) in front of a computer every day almost all day and pop in and out of these games during the day.playing games is more like a bus mans holiday for me because i prefer fixing computers than playing games on them

And if i am not fixing them i prefer printing 3d objects i have built in 3D max or watching American Tv series and news

i do think some people take games to seriously and spend way to much time playing them, to the exclusion of real life and friendships.i have a friend who spends all day playing games and has spent thousands on them,he sits in his corner shooting pixels all day (i dont get that) but i guess they are "happy" personally problem solving is when i have the most fun

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Post by Maddog Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:28 am

HoratioTarr wrote:We have enough problems in the world due to people living in fantasy worlds, without encouraging more.

Agreed.

In fact some of those problems may be a result of too much time already spent in a fantasy world.

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Post by Maddog Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:30 am

Bread and circuses.

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Post by Syl Tue Feb 16, 2021 9:52 am

Korban wrote:
Syl wrote:

for everyone who makes profit from online games there will be many thousands who just slump in front of their computers and waste their lives playing pointless games, and spending money they have either earned or been given.

It's an addiction imo....one that can lull people into a false sense of reality and take over from real life.
Absolutely i agree the majority dont make money  i use to play games a lot especially Red Alert and i was really.......really really good at it, but i never made a penny .i also was a game tester (paid) for a couple of years and in fact that's the only time i made money playing games  (although i am credited on the game) Fortunately i dont have an addictive personality so i find it easy to give up things when i am board with them. but i still play games "world of warships" and "Warcraft" and online poker(free version)

I am however "slumped"(lol) in front of a computer every day almost all day and pop in and out of these games during the day.playing games is more like a bus mans holiday for me because i prefer fixing computers than playing games on them

And if i am not fixing them i prefer printing 3d objects i have built in 3D max or watching American Tv series and news

i do think some people take games to seriously and spend way to much time playing them, to the exclusion of real life and friendships.i have a friend who spends all day playing games and has spent thousands on them,he sits in his corner shooting pixels all day (i dont get that) but i guess they are "happy" personally problem solving is when i have the most fun


When online activity, be it gaming or anything else, takes over from real life, that's when it becomes dangerous.
I know a younger person who has no real friendships yet plays every day and night some war game with online friends, and he is so addicted it's almost all he does in his spare time....which in the last year he has had a lot of.
When a habit becomes an addiction, a bit like people who are forever watching porn, it drags them down into an unrealistic world where they are detached from normal life....and content to be.
I think it borders on a mental illness for some tbh.

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Post by Vintage Tue Feb 16, 2021 12:06 pm

I agree with Syl and Maddog, if you keep escaping into a fantasy world I think it has detrimental effects on people. You have to come down to earth at sometime to the reality of your situation and if its a bad situation surely it must be made so much worse in comparison to your fantasy world, that you will most likely never achieve in reality.
If you allow people to play out their fantasies in that way what happens when it spills out into reality, when people are so immersed in fantasy they start trying things in the real world, I think we already have enough of those people trying out their fantasies in the world.

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Post by HoratioTarr Wed Feb 17, 2021 4:24 pm

Korben wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:We have enough problems in the world due to people living in fantasy worlds, without encouraging more.
I dont know, they may be something in letting people live out there fantasy's where they are not really harming anybody ,and video games can be good in letting people get rid of anger and frustration  

Like the 'reality' of social media? Where the ubiquitous trout pout is the norm and young people are self harming because they can't mentally cope with unrealistic expectations? It's not healthy to live outside reality. And this is where these huge corporations would love us all to be ensconced. Permanently. It'll be poorer people who'll suffer the most. The ones who can't afford to travel the world, go the gym, eat out, be influencers, be YouTube millionaires, etc. But hey, we have a virtual realty helmet from Amazon so living a life don't matter no more! Got no life? We'll give you one. No thanks. I'd rather go for a walk with my dog.
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Post by Korben Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:38 pm

Well with social media you generally connect with many people all over the world ,in fact this forum is a microcosm of social media, no less valid than a game.

You can get advice ,support and form friendships let of steam, in fact many members of this site have met each other in real life or talked with each other over the phone,or email ,basically instant pen pals.

This is how i met Victor,Andy,Irn bru who lived across the river from me, we used to chat often, this is how we met
i keep in touch with my Navy buddy's we often play games together or with my friends a couple of miles away  

But Reality can be a bummer it can be hard .
Everybody's looking for a way to escape, some have abusive relationships,depression some use drugs or have other struggles in life, and it may be easier to talk to a complete stranger than some one closer.

But more and more people are turning to the virtual world it is no different than traditional hobbies because even hobby's in the real world can be destructive.

An escape from reality is something all people need in one form or another, whether its watching a movie or TV program/series, hiking ,or mountain climbing ect ect ,or just walking the dog as you do or indeed playing a online game .

But an obsession is a obsession in the real world or the virtual one that's when it becomes harmful online gambling is a classic example.

Yes perhaps poorer people "suffer" the most.because they cant afford the equipment necessary to take part
But they are many things i cant afford that i would like to take part in but if you have never had it can you miss it ?

But technology is relatively cheap at he low end,even mobile phones can be used for VR ,second hand or out of date equipment is easily obtained and still usable for many years.

Yes they might not be able to afford to travel the world,but the beauty of VR is the world can come to you, and why do i need to go to the gym i can have one right in my living room

the thing about VR is it has no limits ,i can be the captain of a star ship,visit other planets, or sing in a concert, you can surf a wave in hawaii,drive a formula one car at Monaco,you can do almost anything go anywhere your imagination is only limited by your imagination

i have a oculus quest its pretty cool, but i cant spend all day in there ,i still need to eat,pee,sleep,do shopping ect ect although i could do the shopping virtually as well and have it delivered .

i dont deny they can be/are pitfalls ,the movie i mentioned "ready player one" makes it quite clear the danger of corporations in this virtual world and how it could exploit the poor in fact they are may movies that explore that theme  

i am not sure what you mean by "unrealistic expectations" i think that's more in the real world than the virtual one look at any fashion magazine with skinny air brushed women that young girls aspire to

what i would say if you (the royal you) can't separate virtual reality from reality you have bigger problems but then again with virtual reality you could get that help privately, we already, have tele medicine.

what is true that its hear to stay and like anything in the world in can be used for good or not used for good its only going to get more realistic and immersive the trick is not to get drowned in it
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Post by Syl Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:12 am

Like everything social media, internet gaming, online activity of every sort, has a force to be good or to  be evil.

If it's used well it's brilliant, all of us on forums know how it can open up the world interactively, we can talk to people anywhere in the world, get to know people we would never have a chance to know, have an in depth conversation at 4am in the morning if we want to, we have a parallel life (if you like) that enhances what can sometimes be a humdrum boring life at times. We all need a bit of escapism.


The other side is when cyber life overtakes real life, it may start as an escape, but if it becomes more important than real life, if your relationships or work start to suffer, if you think real flesh and blood people should look and act like the enhanced photoshopped  images and portrayals of life that social media  etc show, that's when it goes wrong.

It also encourages a coldness towards your fellow human beings. The majority of people surely treat others with kindness and respect face to face, some of those people think nothing of talking down to people on social media or forums in a way they would never do in the outside world.

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Post by Korben Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:39 am

Syl wrote:

It also encourages a coldness towards your fellow human beings. .

I agree, i think this is caused by the lack of visual and audio feed back.
we humans use a lot of visual and audio cues in communication, this is missing when "on the internet" words and statements can and often be misconstrued or taken out of context that then leads to conflict or nastiness that can then spiral out of control
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Post by Syl Thu Feb 18, 2021 9:44 am

Korben wrote:
Syl wrote:

It also encourages a coldness towards your fellow human beings. .

I agree, i think this is caused by the lack of visual and audio feed back.
we humans use a lot of visual and audio cues in communication, this is missing when "on the internet" words and statements can and often be misconstrued or taken out of context that then leads to conflict or nastiness that can then spiral out of control    

It does Korban, it's one of the unpleasant things about social media.

Do you remember the woman who hounded the MaCanns? she was a respectable member of her community, an ordinary looking woman who no doubt would have acted in public in a very proper manner, yet online she was a nasty troll.
When asked why she did it she said she was entitled to do it. scratch
It's a mystery why some people think they can say whatever they like online....they certainly wouldn't say it face to face or write it in a letter and post it.

When her trolling became public she committed suicide.

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Post by Korben Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:19 am

Syl wrote:
Korben wrote:

I agree, i think this is caused by the lack of visual and audio feed back.
we humans use a lot of visual and audio cues in communication, this is missing when "on the internet" words and statements can and often be misconstrued or taken out of context that then leads to conflict or nastiness that can then spiral out of control    

It does Korban, it's one of the unpleasant things about social media.

Do you remember the woman who hounded the MaCanns? she was a respectable member of her community, an ordinary  looking woman who no doubt would have acted in public in a very proper manner, yet online she was a nasty troll.
When asked why she did it she said she was entitled to do it. scratch
It's a mystery why some people think they can say whatever they like online....they certainly wouldn't say it face to face or write it in a letter and post it.

When her trolling became public she committed suicide.
I remember the woman/story but did not know she committed suicide. wow

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Post by Korben Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:18 pm

So just for shits and giggles i went to this site in Firefox VR with a 50ft screen everything is huge and looks like the sections are in a different order and icons very weird....then i did a VR tour of NY and egypt that was great it was almost like being there ...i wondered if any body else has a VR headset? others may or may not you can create virtual chatrooms and talk to people. i spend some time in the big screen app lobby talking to a lot of Americans ,British,Canadians.... ect ...then i shot some aliens (as usual) my guess is unless you try it then it can sound like a waste of time as the OP suggests but its a great way to meet people from around the world
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Post by Syl Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:24 am

Korben wrote:So just for shits and giggles i went to this site in Firefox VR with a 50ft screen everything is huge and looks like the sections are in a different order and icons very weird....then i did a VR tour of NY and egypt that was great it was almost like being there ...i wondered if any body else has a VR headset? others may or may not you can create virtual chatrooms and talk to people. i spend some time in the big screen app lobby talking to a lot of Americans ,British,Canadians.... ect ...then i shot some aliens (as usual) my guess is unless you try it then it can sound like a waste of time as the OP suggests but its a great way to meet people from around the world  

It sounds amazing, very surreal, especially for one who is still fascinated with street view. Razz

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Post by Korben Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:36 am

Syl wrote:
Korben wrote:So just for shits and giggles i went to this site in Firefox VR with a 50ft screen everything is huge and looks like the sections are in a different order and icons very weird....then i did a VR tour of NY and egypt that was great it was almost like being there ...i wondered if any body else has a VR headset? others may or may not you can create virtual chatrooms and talk to people. i spend some time in the big screen app lobby talking to a lot of Americans ,British,Canadians.... ect ...then i shot some aliens (as usual) my guess is unless you try it then it can sound like a waste of time as the OP suggests but its a great way to meet people from around the world  

It sounds amazing, very surreal, especially for one who is  still fascinated with street view. Razz  
Its actually very "real" in many ways apart from the oblivious limitations ,you can go in to a cinema and watch tv or movies (although some are limited due to American region copyright restriction) lots of VR education stuff ,my favorite is being on the space station and space walking the sense you get of the size of earth is mind-blowing, we all know the earth is big ...ish.. but this gives it a a totally new perspective from low earth orbit. the dinosaurs is like being in Jurasic park (diplodicus are really big ) the VR worlds are stunningly life like

As an education tool the possibility's are endless Even the US army is investing in this technology to train combat soldiers without even seeing a battle field
Work training programs are available but they are limited at the moment

I have met and talked with people from all over the world and if you like street view this will knock your socks off

i can understand how people can think it could be harmful to "escape" in to the VR world,and they imagin it as some kind of isolationist Utopia but in fact i would say the opposite and unless you have experienced it the perception and "reality" are misunderstood








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Post by Maddog Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:45 am

I may want a virtual woman if they are as good as the real thing and don't care if I scratch my balls while napping on the couch.

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Post by Korben Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:20 am

Maddog wrote:I may want a virtual woman if they are as good as the real thing and don't care if I scratch my balls while napping on the couch.  
Well its true that almost every advance gets used for Porn in some way or another:shock: Shocked And while today its nothing like the Movies AKA "Pris" Blade runner,almost human, Even "Data" in star Trek that kind of technology is in development so you Never know MD you may get your wish:twisted: Twisted Evil
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Post by Syl Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:38 am

Korben wrote:
Syl wrote:

It sounds amazing, very surreal, especially for one who is  still fascinated with street view. Razz  
Its actually very "real" in many ways apart from the oblivious limitations ,you can go in to a cinema and watch tv or movies (although some are limited due to American region  copyright restriction) lots of VR education stuff ,my favorite is being on the space station and space walking the sense you get of the size of earth is mind-blowing, we all know the earth is big ...ish.. but this gives it a a totally new perspective from low earth orbit. the dinosaurs is like being in Jurasic park (diplodicus are really big ) the VR worlds are stunningly life like

As an education tool the possibility's are endless Even the US army is investing in this technology to train combat soldiers without even seeing a battle field
Work training programs are available but they are limited at the moment

I have met and talked with people from all over the world and if you like street view this will knock your socks off

i can understand how people can think it could be harmful to "escape" in to the VR world,and they imagin it as some kind of isolationist Utopia but in fact i would say the opposite and unless you have experienced it the perception and "reality" are misunderstood    









It sounds fascinating.

I only think interactive experiences like this are harmful if they take over from real life...and I believe sometimes they do, especially if a person doesn't have much of a real world life.
They may start as an escape, but they can become an obsession, so that person prefers their interactive world to the real one.

Its like porn, if a person satisfies themselves with that instead of actually cultivating real relationships, it can change the way they see and treat the opposite sex, emotionally as well as physically.

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Post by eddie Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:27 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:We have enough problems in the world due to people living in fantasy worlds, without encouraging more.

Well fucking said!

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Post by Ben Reilly Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:12 pm

This is why some people get addicted to video games -- they can achieve more success in the games than they can in real life. I think it's a shitty idea, but of course the rich and powerful are always looking for the next drug to intoxicate the masses with.

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Post by Korben Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:42 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:This is why some people get addicted to video games -- they can achieve more success in the games than they can in real life. I think it's a shitty idea, but of course the rich and powerful are always looking for the next drug to intoxicate the masses with.
Drugs,alcohol,gambling,sex ect ect people can become addicted to anything,video games are no different and speaks more to there personality and struggles in there life's than it does about the focus of there addiction
I have never had an addictive personality i can give up things generally very easily but you have to distinguish between addictiveness and dependency and habitual
and simply just enjoying doing something ,all have different root causes

for example
i smoked marijuana for 35 years people calim its addictive and leads to harder drugs and that my be true for some but not everybody i gave up almost two years ago,one day i just stopped and in all that time i never even saw "harder drugs" in fact i am pretty unsure about taking doctor prescribed drugs and always have been

6 years ago i was addicted to this very forum in many ways , it would be the first thing i did when i switched my computer on in the morning and the last thing i would do at night.
it is no different from playing a Video game ie something you enjoy and Get a good feeling doing but one day i Just gave it up

people need escapism from life's struggles, some people shop,build models,go to fitness classes,ect ect  the list is endless

some "addictions" can be beneficial personally or to society,and society has no problems with them and on the other side of the coin some can be harmful and rejected by society  
Any Highly accomplished athlete will tell you you need commitment in your chosen field any chess player,dart player runner,writer,artist will tell you that commitment is the key to success
And for every highly accomplished person in there field they are thousands of "amateurs" or people who do it just for fun
Video games are no different ether on the screen or in VR imo  

VR has the potential to educate better,and to experience things you could never hope to experience in real life, to see things from the past or the future or the present from walking with dinosaurs to orbiting the earth ,

it is used in building ships ,buildings space craft and in planning of all sorts of things "games" is only a small part

The fear of new technology is not new,change is scary especially for some, the unknown can be daunting ,the concern on the impact it will have on people is not new, from the steam train to electricity,to nuclear energy and beyond people have initially mistrusted or feared it this is natural.

in 10.20 ..30 years or more people wont give it a second thought it will be part of everybody's life in one way or another instead of forums like this you will log on virtually,in fact you can do that now, you will be able to virtual visit people around the world just like you skype,or portal family now

Start trek of the 1960 is often credited with the development or prophecy of what was then futuristic technology and things to come that eventually became real
if you want to see the future watch science fiction sure its not all good,but its not all bad ether
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Post by Syl Wed Feb 24, 2021 4:37 am

This virtual world has taken over from TV.

A generation ago people were accused of being couch potatoes because they slumped in front of the TV for hours at a time....now instead people play online games to get the same release.

It's just an advanced version really, at least at a computer you can get involved more than simply being the observer.

Not everyone wants to travel and see the world, some are happy to see it through the eyes of someone else. But it can promote lethargy  and stop people wanting to achieve....that's my opinion when I see young people addicted to interactive games.

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