Impeachment Video

https://www.nbcnews.com/video/house-impeachment-managers-play-video-of-capitol-riot-during-impeachment-trial-100757061701?fbclid=IwAR0XXDO0etn0LQRypGk3MtMq3MCcvqfw9Svi-77QWbAqVhRUrst_FxPkwHM


Since I work during the day, and watch almost no TV at night, I had only seen bits and pieces of all of this.

Trump will likely escape a guilty finding again.

Pretty sure he shouldn't.

It will go according to party vote, which will cap the Republican Party as the party that is autocratic and likely beholding to a foreign power.

Original Quill wrote:It will go according to party vote, which will cap the Republican Party as the party that is autocratic and likely beholding to a foreign power.

It will go mostly to party vote. Like most votes any more.

Which means the Republican senators are declaring themselves as crooked and corrupt as their former leader.
Is lying in Public Office a criminal offence?

Andy wrote:Which means the Republican senators are declaring themselves as crooked and corrupt as their former leader.
Is lying in Public Office a criminal offence?

Trump is now branded as an anti-American, seditionist traitor. By associating with/supporting Trump, Republicans have acquired the same brand. As a result, the Republican Party is experiencing virtually unprecedented exodus. https://www.rawstory.com/voters-leaving-republican-party-droves/

Not only is the Republican Party losing raw numbers, but they are losing in crucial states. As you know, most votes go by states, so that if several key states shift, they set the tone for all the future. As the above article notes:

rawstory wrote:Among the key states reporting voters scattering from the GOP since the first of the year are Pennsylvania (10,000), North Carolina (6,000) and Arizona (5,000). There is some corresponding reduction in Democratic Party rolls but that number "is a fraction of Republican defectors," reports the website.

In addition, Texas, Nevada, Arizona and Colorado are about to swing anyway, because of the rising number of Hispanics, who vote overwhelmingly Democratic, in their population.

Trump may well have been able to take over the Republican Party because of the fear among Republicans that they are losing states to Hispanics—a sort of last gasp. Now, as voters see where Republican philosophy leads, Trump is creating a stampede away.

Andy wrote:Which means the Republican senators are declaring themselves as crooked and corrupt as their former leader.
Is lying in Public Office a criminal offence?

Criminal offense? Lying is a requirement ya big dork.

Original Quill wrote:

Andy wrote:Which means the Republican senators are declaring themselves as crooked and corrupt as their former leader.
Is lying in Public Office a criminal offence?

Trump is now branded as an anti-American, seditionist traitor.  By associating with/supporting Trump, Republicans have acquired the same brand.  As a result, the Republican Party is experiencing virtually unprecedented exodus.  https://www.rawstory.com/voters-leaving-republican-party-droves/

Not only is the Republican Party losing raw numbers, but they are losing in crucial states.  As you know, most votes go by states, so that if several key states shift, they set the tone for all the future.  As the above article notes:

rawstory wrote:Among the key states reporting voters scattering from the GOP since the first of the year are Pennsylvania (10,000), North Carolina (6,000) and Arizona (5,000). There is some corresponding reduction in Democratic Party rolls but that number "is a fraction of Republican defectors," reports the website.

In addition, Texas, Nevada, Arizona and Colorado are about to swing anyway, because of the rising number of Hispanics, who vote overwhelmingly Democratic, in their population.

Trump may well have been able to take over the Republican Party because of the fear among Republicans that they are losing states to Hispanics—a sort of last gasp.  Now, as voters see where Republican philosophy leads, Trump is creating a stampede away.

Yeah, Republicans should have moved on about two weeks after the election.

Did what they did with Nixon and take their lumps a d regroup. Reagan's historic landslide was only a few years after Nixons disgrace.

The American people will forgive mistakes if you tell them you made one. And the stupidity of the Dems will keep an opposition party viable.

Maddog wrote:Criminal offense? Lying is a requirement ya big dork.

...for Republicans.  They work the sparse fields of special interests, but must grow as many votes as Democrats.  The only way to do that is to lie about their accomplishments.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:Criminal offense? Lying is a requirement ya big dork.

...for Republicans.  They work the sparse fields of special interests, but must grow as many votes as Democrats.  The only way to do that is to lie about their accomplishments.

Haha.

Politicians lie.

Period.

Not Democrats. They have no reason to lie. They are working for the common interest already.

Original Quill wrote:Not Democrats.  They have no reason to lie.  They are working for the common interest already.

Now you're lying.

Original Quill wrote:Not Democrats. They have no reason to lie. They are working for the common interest already.

Oh dear...

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Not Democrats.  They have no reason to lie.  They are working for the common interest already.

Now you're lying.

I never lie. I have no reason to lie.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Now you're lying.

I never lie.  I have no reason to lie.  

How's the ex...still seeing the doc for those ribs and that fractured skull?

Original Quill wrote:  How's the ex...still seeing the doc for those ribs and that fractured skull?

You would make a good politician.

The Republicans never truly refudiated (to use a Republicanism) Nixon. They parted ways with the man, but his spirit never left, and in fact became amplified with the elections of Reagan, George W. Bush and finally Trump.

Nixonism is very similar to Trumpism -- the projection of the anxieties of a man who always thought he deserved better than he got onto a legion of followers who always thought they deserved better than they got. That grudge against one's circumstances in general festers into hatred for anybody who can be blamed, from immigrants to the nebulous, never-properly-defined "elite."

Nixon wasn't the first to do it, but he nurtured in his followers the jealous hatred of expertise, the anger of low self-esteem that comes from not accepting that sometimes other people know better than you do.

That mindset doesn't fit with traditional conservative values, and that's the heart of the problem. It's impossible to believe that some people are naturally gifted business leaders, but that nobody is a naturally gifted leader of society within the framework of a republic, or that someone can master the science of making money but nobody can master the science of global warming, without going a bit nutsy.

So that's how you get people who *say* they want business to be unfettered, until those brilliant businesspeople decide they would be better off hiring engineers from India than from the U.S. Then the whole thing is revealed as a hodge podge built around fear of inadequacy.

"If the president does it, it's not illegal." — R. Nixon

Ben Reilly wrote:The Republicans never truly refudiated (to use a Republicanism) Nixon. They parted ways with the man, but his spirit never left, and in fact became amplified with the elections of Reagan, George W. Bush and finally Trump.

Nixonism is very similar to Trumpism -- the projection of the anxieties of a man who always thought he deserved better than he got onto a legion of followers who always thought they deserved better than they got. That grudge against one's circumstances in general festers into hatred for anybody who can be blamed, from immigrants to the nebulous, never-properly-defined "elite."

Nixon wasn't the first to do it, but he nurtured in his followers the jealous hatred of expertise, the anger of low self-esteem that comes from not accepting that sometimes other people know better than you do.

That mindset doesn't fit with traditional conservative values, and that's the heart of the problem. It's impossible to believe that some people are naturally gifted business leaders, but that nobody is a naturally gifted leader of society within the framework of a republic, or that someone can master the science of making money but nobody can master the science of global warming, without going a bit nutsy.

So that's how you get people who *say* they want business to be unfettered, until those brilliant businesspeople decide they would be better off hiring engineers from India than from the U.S. Then the whole thing is revealed as a hodge podge built around fear of inadequacy.

They separated themselves from the man. They were done with him and moved on.

Obviously they didn't change the party platform because the president was a crook.

Maddog wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:The Republicans never truly refudiated (to use a Republicanism) Nixon. They parted ways with the man, but his spirit never left, and in fact became amplified with the elections of Reagan, George W. Bush and finally Trump.

Nixonism is very similar to Trumpism -- the projection of the anxieties of a man who always thought he deserved better than he got onto a legion of followers who always thought they deserved better than they got. That grudge against one's circumstances in general festers into hatred for anybody who can be blamed, from immigrants to the nebulous, never-properly-defined "elite."

Nixon wasn't the first to do it, but he nurtured in his followers the jealous hatred of expertise, the anger of low self-esteem that comes from not accepting that sometimes other people know better than you do.

That mindset doesn't fit with traditional conservative values, and that's the heart of the problem. It's impossible to believe that some people are naturally gifted business leaders, but that nobody is a naturally gifted leader of society within the framework of a republic, or that someone can master the science of making money but nobody can master the science of global warming, without going a bit nutsy.

So that's how you get people who *say* they want business to be unfettered, until those brilliant businesspeople decide they would be better off hiring engineers from India than from the U.S. Then the whole thing is revealed as a hodge podge built around fear of inadequacy.

They separated themselves from the man. They were done with him and moved on.

Obviously they didn't change the party platform because the president was a crook.

If Republicans separated themselves from Nixon, why did they return to pardon him? Why did his aides return to start wars that furthered Nixon’s plans?

What occurred with Nixon was a panoply of political events, largely orchestrated by Republicans. He would resign, thus staving off inquiry and condemnation of the events of the Republican administration; in turn, the vice President Gerald Ford would take over as a matter of constitutional law; in turn, once instated, the vice President would pardon Nixon, and he would be free to go about his life. It was a brilliant plan, even though the public was disgusted (Ford lost his attempt at reelection to a peanut farmer from Georgia).

More important, it was pure continuity of Republicanism, which led eventually to GWB, practically a political retard, being overwhelmed by ex-Nixon aides, particularly vice President Richard Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who manipulated us into a Republican war. It was very reminiscent of how Nixon engineered the continuation of the Vietnam War.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

They separated themselves from the man. They were done with him and moved on.

Obviously they didn't change the party platform because the president was a crook.

If Republicans separated themselves from Nixon, why did they return to pardon him?  Why did his aides return to start wars that furthered Nixon’s plans?

What occurred with Nixon was a panoply of political events, largely orchestrated by Republicans.  He would resign, thus staving off inquiry and condemnation of the events of the Republican administration; in turn, the vice President Gerald Ford would take over as a matter of constitutional law; in turn, once instated, the vice President would pardon Nixon, and he would be free to go about his life.  It was a brilliant plan, even though the public was disgusted (Ford lost his attempt at reelection to a peanut farmer from Georgia).

More important, it was pure continuity of Republicanism, which led eventually to GWB, practically a political retard, being overwhelmed by ex-Nixon aides, particularly vice President Richard Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who manipulated us into a Republican war.  It was very reminiscent of how Nixon engineered the continuation of the Vietnam War.

He was pardoned because he stepped aside and didn't do what Trump is doing now.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

If Republicans separated themselves from Nixon, why did they return to pardon him?  Why did his aides return to start wars that furthered Nixon’s plans?

What occurred with Nixon was a panoply of political events, largely orchestrated by Republicans.  He would resign, thus staving off inquiry and condemnation of the events of the Republican administration; in turn, the vice President Gerald Ford would take over as a matter of constitutional law; in turn, once instated, the vice President would pardon Nixon, and he would be free to go about his life.  It was a brilliant plan, even though the public was disgusted (Ford lost his attempt at reelection to a peanut farmer from Georgia).

More important, it was pure continuity of Republicanism, which led eventually to GWB, practically a political retard, being overwhelmed by ex-Nixon aides, particularly vice President Richard Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who manipulated us into a Republican war.  It was very reminiscent of how Nixon engineered the continuation of the Vietnam War.

He was pardoned because he stepped aside and didn't do what Trump is doing now.  

Yes, that could be hypothetically, but that is all speculation.  It is more likely that Nixon never thought of doing what Trump is doing now.

The patent fact is that Nixon was caught in a crime, and there were tapes to prove it.  What is also factual is that an exchange took place between Republicans and Nixon, whereby he would resign in lieu of his impeachment, in return for which he would be pardoned. That trade, granting a free ride for Nixon, also protected the reputation of Republicans and left them with a pass on criminal behavior.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

He was pardoned because he stepped aside and didn't do what Trump is doing now.  

Yes, that could be hypothetically, but that is all speculation.  It is more likely that Nixon never thought of doing what Trump is doing now.

The patent fact is that Nixon was caught in a crime, and there were tapes to prove it.  What is also factual is that an exchange took place between Republicans and Nixon, whereby he would resign in lieu of his impeachment, in return for which he would be pardoned.  That trade, granting a free ride for Nixon, also protected the reputation of Republicans and left them with a pass on criminal behavior.

In any event the Republicans quickly washed their hands of him once he was, "done'.

Many won't do that with Trump, which is stupid. He's toxic and it's not like his followers are going to vote Democrat or Libertarian.

They should treat Trumps followers like Dems treat blacks. Neither group is going to leave their respective parties.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Yes, that could be hypothetically, but that is all speculation.  It is more likely that Nixon never thought of doing what Trump is doing now.

The patent fact is that Nixon was caught in a crime, and there were tapes to prove it.  What is also factual is that an exchange took place between Republicans and Nixon, whereby he would resign in lieu of his impeachment, in return for which he would be pardoned.  That trade, granting a free ride for Nixon, also protected the reputation of Republicans and left them with a pass on criminal behavior.

In any event the Republicans quickly washed their hands of him once he was, "done'. 

Or, they just came back with the same intentions, a different figurehead.  What were Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld?

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

In any event the Republicans quickly washed their hands of him once he was, "done'. 

Or, they just came back with the same intentions, a different figurehead.  What were Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld?

Well no shit. Nixon resigned over criminal activities not problems with party positions.

Do you think Dems changed their positions after Dan Rostenkowski went to prison?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Or, they just came back with the same intentions, a different figurehead.  What were Richard Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld?

Well no shit. Nixon resigned over criminal activities not problems with party positions.

Criminal activities are the Republican Party's positions. That is the point, dummy. Nixon's crime was exceptional because he got caught, not because it is unusual in Republican circles.

And after Nixon, his minions carried on with what they were doing. That's why I raise Cheney and Rumsfeld. And now we have new Republican bedmates, Trump, Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Well no shit. Nixon resigned over criminal activities not problems with party positions.

Criminal activities are the Republican Party's positions.  That is the point, dummy.  Nixon's crime was exceptional because he got caught, not because it is unusual in Republican circles.

And after Nixon, his minions carried on with what they were doing.  That's why I raise Cheney and Rumsfeld.  And now we have new Republican bedmates, Trump, Ted Cruz and Lindsey Graham

And Big Dan?

Maddog wrote:And Big Dan?

Dan Rostenkowski was pardoned, having been only involved through his role as Chair of the House Ways and Means Committee. He was never a president, as Nixon was, and as Trump was, nor did he actively engage in wrongdoing. In fact, the president issued an apology.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:And Big Dan?

Dan Rostenkowski was pardoned, having been only involved through his role as Chair of the House Ways and Means Committee.  He was never a president, as Nixon was, and as Trump was, nor did he actively engage in wrongdoing.  In fact, the president issued an apology.  

He did nothing wrong eh?

Now you sound like a Trumpster.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Dan Rostenkowski was pardoned, having been only involved through his role as Chair of the House Ways and Means Committee.  He was never a president, as Nixon was, and as Trump was, nor did he actively engage in wrongdoing.  In fact, the president issued an apology.  

He did nothing wrong eh?

Now you sound like a Trumpster.

Haha...no evidence to change the result?  Now you sound like a Trumpster.  

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

He did nothing wrong eh?

Now you sound like a Trumpster.

Haha...no evidence to change the result?  Now you sound like a Trumpster.  

Nah, I sound honest, which is confusing for you.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Haha...no evidence to change the result?  Now you sound like a Trumpster.  

Nah, I sound honest, which is confusing for you.  

You sound "honest" only in your wet dreams.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:

Nah, I sound honest, which is confusing for you.  

You sound "honest" only in your wet dreams.  

OK Walter.

Say howdy to Chuck Norris for me.