Impeachment Watch

As you are probably aware, last week the House of Representatives formally announced an Impeachment inquiry, in the wake of the Trump shake-down of the Ukraine President, Volodymyr Zelensky, who requests military hardware to stave off the invasion of his country of Russian forces.  Trump was holding up $-half-billion in arms ordered by Congress.  In a telephone call between the two presidents, at the precise moment that Zilensky asked about the aid Trump countered with a request for a personal favor of oppo research into Joe Biden, his political opponent.

White House wrote:President Selensky:  "...specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from  the United· States for defense purposes ..."

President Trump:  "I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it."

Trump then proceeded to ask for any oppo research into Democratic candidate Joe Biden and a possible link to a criminal enterprise.  Former VP Biden had been looking into Ukrainian corruption while in office, but he was trying to stop it...not promote it.  This request for oppo research is a violation of Campaign Finance Laws of the US, in that it requests something of value from a foreign entity.

Moreover, to withhold defensive arms to the Ukraine, which is being attacked by neighboring Russia, is to help Russia.  We all know how cozy Trump is with V. Putin and Russia.  It appears that Trump is trying to trade a $-half-billion of taxpayer money, for personal favors...an act of treason and a bid for personal enrichment, among other things.

Last week, the Congress started Impeaching hearings, with a mind to impeaching Trump.

It's not going to happen !

nicko wrote:It's not going to happen !

He may get impeached, which is different than removed. The House impeaches, the Senate removes.

Clinton was impeached.

They better have more than this phone call, if they want this to go anywhere.

"I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it."

Didn't say me or I. That's going to provide all the wiggle room he needs, counselor.

nicko wrote:It's not going to happen !

Water under the bridge, nicko. It's already happened.

Last Tuesday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced an opening of impeachment hearings by the Judiciary Committee. Subpoenas have already gone out, including to the Secretary of State. Witnesses are scheduled on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday of next week.

Hope is, that they will vote just after Thanksgiving.

Maddog wrote: "I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it."

Didn't say me or I. That's going to provide all the wiggle room he needs, counselor.  

It's no problem. What Trump went on to request in the telephone conversation, specifically, was something that was of no value to the national interest, and of great value to candidate Trump...he wanted dirt on his opponent. Moreover, as it was oppo research, inviting a foreign country to help in an internal political election is a direct violation of campaign finance law.

It's clearly a shake-down. We've all watched enough mafia movies to understand how these go down:

...Big Volie, you ask me for a favor, but you never give nuttin' back. Where's the reciprocity?

Original Quill wrote:

nicko wrote:It's not going to happen !

Water under the bridge, nicko.  It's already happened.

Last Tuesday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced an opening of impeachment hearings by the Judiciary Committee.  Subpoenas have already gone out, including to the Secretary of State.  Witnesses are scheduled on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday of next week.

Hope is, that they will vote just after Thanksgiving.

It should get very exciting. I wonder who all we be subpoenaed?

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote: "I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it."

Didn't say me or I. That's going to provide all the wiggle room he needs, counselor.  

It's no problem.  What Trump went on to request in the telephone conversation, specifically, was something that was of no value to the national interest, and of great value to candidate Trump...he wanted dirt on his opponent.  Moreover, as it was oppo research, inviting a foreign country to help in an internal political election is a direct violation of campaign finance law.

It's clearly a shake-down.  We've all watched enough mafia movies to understand how these go down:

...Big Volie, you ask me for a favor, but you never give nuttin' back.  Where's the reciprocity?

Are you saying foreign aid never comes with strings attached?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Water under the bridge, nicko.  It's already happened.

Last Tuesday, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announced an opening of impeachment hearings by the Judiciary Committee.  Subpoenas have already gone out, including to the Secretary of State.  Witnesses are scheduled on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday of next week.

Hope is, that they will vote just after Thanksgiving.

It should get very exciting.  I wonder who all we be subpoenaed?

They listed them, but I don't know if I have them down. I know Volker is one. And the Secretary of State, of course. The whistle-blower is in negotiations with the Judiciary for protection, given Trump's threat of murder. I can't remember who the 4th one is, but I'll learn on MSNBC tonight on the Rachael Maddow show.

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

It's no problem.  What Trump went on to request in the telephone conversation, specifically, was something that was of no value to the national interest, and of great value to candidate Trump...he wanted dirt on his opponent.  Moreover, as it was oppo research, inviting a foreign country to help in an internal political election is a direct violation of campaign finance law.

It's clearly a shake-down.  We've all watched enough mafia movies to understand how these go down:

...Big Volie, you ask me for a favor, but you never give nuttin' back.  Where's the reciprocity?

Are you saying foreign aid never comes with strings attached?

Yes, but not for personal gain. To ask for a personal favor, especially of monetary value, in return for any government action, especially foreign aid, is like a kick-back.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:


Are you saying foreign aid never comes with strings attached?

Yes, but not for personal gain.  To ask for a personal favor, especially of monetary value, in return for any government action, especially foreign aid, is like a kick-back.

How did a guy who got kicked out of the navy for cocaine use get such a lucrative position with the Ukrainians?

That question will likely get answered if it ever gets over to the senate.

The most disturbing explanation is that the company is attempting to curry favour with the US government by enlisting the services of the close family friend and campaign bundler of the secretary of state and the son of the vice president. After all, Archer notes on one of his company's web pages that his firm's "relationship network creates opportunities for our portfolio companies which then compound to greater outcomes for all parties".

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27403003


This is a 5 year old comment from the BBC.

Interesting that people were asking what the fuck is going on back then.

Guess it was for personal gain, lol.

Do you think Hunter and Joe will be forced to testify in front of the Senate?

I guess throwing them under the bus to get Trump is just collateral damage.

The problem with these hearings is that it's political theater put on by people as corrupt as Hunter, Joe and Donald.

Maddog wrote:Do you think Hunter and Joe will be forced to testify in front of the Senate?

There's no reason for them to testify.  There's no issue.

Maddog wrote:I guess throwing them under the bus to get Trump is just collateral damage

.

No one is throwing them under the bus.  Trump is trying to, but the American public sees that as a desperate attempt at diversion.  

Maddog wrote:The problem with these hearings is that it's political theater put on by people as corrupt as Hunter, Joe and Donald.

Hunter and Joe are as innocent as your's or my daughters.  What Trump does is called projection: he takes any wrongdoing by himself, and projects it onto his adversary.  He invents conspiracy theories in order to muddy the waters, making it seem realistic.  The Hunter and Joe allegation is one such invention.  That way he tries to 1) besmirch his adversary; and 2) he tries to reapportion the guilt weight, a tactic he feels equalizes the scores.  It’s a form of whataboutism, with no there there.

However, this time his crime is so atrocious that the public won't be distracted.  Here, there is clear and convincing evidence of an extortion for personal gain, using taxpayer assets; in contrast, his attempts to besmirch Joe and Hunter is seen as weak and feeble.

He’s got Joe on the wrong side of the corruption, and Hunter is a non-player.  The truth is that Viktor Shokin, the crooked prosecutor, was forced from office at Biden’s urging because he had failed to conduct thorough investigations of corruption, and had stifled efforts to investigate embezzlement and misconduct by public officials following the 2014 uprising.   See: https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/  Hunter was not even involved.  Trump has twisted the narrative to reverse the sides, and confuse the issue.  Joe was adverse to the company in question, Burisma Holdings.

By now, the public is wise to Trump’s projection tactic, and sees it for what it is.  Trump has used it too often.  Recall it even backfired when he predicted his own election was rigged.  He was anticipating losing when he invented that projection.  He had to fast-walk it back when he was actually picked by the electoral college to be president.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:Do you think Hunter and Joe will be forced to testify in front of the Senate?

There's no reason for them to testify.  There's no issue.

Maddog wrote:I guess throwing them under the bus to get Trump is just collateral damage

.

No one is throwing them under the bus.  Trump is trying to, but the American public sees that as a desperate attempt at diversion.  

Maddog wrote:The problem with these hearings is that it's political theater put on by people as corrupt as Hunter, Joe and Donald.

Hunter and Joe are as innocent as your's or my daughters.  What Trump does is called projection: he takes any wrongdoing by himself, and projects it onto his adversary.  He invents conspiracy theories in order to muddy the waters, making it seem realistic.  The Hunter and Joe allegation is one such invention.  That way he tries to 1) besmirch his adversary; and 2) he tries to reapportion the guilt weight, a tactic he feels equalizes the scores.  It’s a form of whataboutism, with no there there.

However, this time his crime is so atrocious that the public won't be distracted.  Here, there is clear and convincing evidence of an extortion for personal gain, using taxpayer assets; in contrast, his attempts to besmirch Joe and Hunter is seen as weak and feeble.

He’s got Joe on the wrong side of the corruption, and Hunter is a non-player.  The truth is that Viktor Shokin, the crooked prosecutor, was forced from office at Biden’s urging because he had failed to conduct thorough investigations of corruption, and had stifled efforts to investigate embezzlement and misconduct by public officials following the 2014 uprising.   See: https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/  Hunter was not even involved.  Trump has twisted the narrative to reverse the sides, and confuse the issue.  Joe was adverse to the company in question, Burisma Holdings.

By now, the public is wise to Trump’s projection tactic, and sees it for what it is.  Trump has used it too often.  Recall it even backfired when he predicted his own election was rigged.  He was anticipating losing when he invented that projection.  He had to fast-walk it back when he was actually picked by the electoral college to be president.

You dont think Senate Republicans will drag Hunter and Joe in if there's a trial in the Senate?

Maddog wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

There's no reason for them to testify.  There's no issue.


.

No one is throwing them under the bus.  Trump is trying to, but the American public sees that as a desperate attempt at diversion.  



Hunter and Joe are as innocent as your's or my daughters.  What Trump does is called projection: he takes any wrongdoing by himself, and projects it onto his adversary.  He invents conspiracy theories in order to muddy the waters, making it seem realistic.  The Hunter and Joe allegation is one such invention.  That way he tries to 1) besmirch his adversary; and 2) he tries to reapportion the guilt weight, a tactic he feels equalizes the scores.  It’s a form of whataboutism, with no there there.

However, this time his crime is so atrocious that the public won't be distracted.  Here, there is clear and convincing evidence of an extortion for personal gain, using taxpayer assets; in contrast, his attempts to besmirch Joe and Hunter is seen as weak and feeble.

He’s got Joe on the wrong side of the corruption, and Hunter is a non-player.  The truth is that Viktor Shokin, the crooked prosecutor, was forced from office at Biden’s urging because he had failed to conduct thorough investigations of corruption, and had stifled efforts to investigate embezzlement and misconduct by public officials following the 2014 uprising.   See: https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says/  Hunter was not even involved.  Trump has twisted the narrative to reverse the sides, and confuse the issue.  Joe was adverse to the company in question, Burisma Holdings.

By now, the public is wise to Trump’s projection tactic, and sees it for what it is.  Trump has used it too often.  Recall it even backfired when he predicted his own election was rigged.  He was anticipating losing when he invented that projection.  He had to fast-walk it back when he was actually picked by the electoral college to be president.

You dont think Senate Republicans will drag Hunter and Joe in if there's a trial in the Senate?

I think they would be very foolish if they did.  The last thing that Republicans want is for the truth to come in and cleanse their nice little ruse.  This conspiracy theory is like accusing the Lone Ranger of helping the bank robbers, based solely on evidence he was in town to stop the stop the robbers.  The theory itself is a contradiction.

They'll get no traction on this hoax.  First, the public already knows what the Republicans are trying to cover up.  Geeze guys, put the horshit behind the horse, not in front.  Second, the logic doesn't hold up: why would Biden be in town to stop corruption, and how would stopping corruption comprise corruption itself?  Third, this conspiracy theory has already been looked into: a corruption investigation was had into leaders of Ukrainian gas companies concerned a potential money-laundering transaction that had occurred before Hunter Biden joined the board.  The timing is screwed up.

Republican Senators might attempt to smear a lot of mud at hearing, but more likely they would clean up the mud they have already put down.  The Bidens have the advantage of knowing they are right, and they know a lot more facts than the Senators.  A wise old Judge once told me, don't ask a question you don't already know the answer to.  This is one of those times where, already stigmatized by a scandal, the Republican Senators do know the answer is against them, and they might fook it up worse.

A wide old judge told you something they tell first year law students.

Are you ever capable of not making up bullshit about yiur life?

Maddog wrote:It appears the Ukranian phone call is just part of the story.

Indeed, it's beginning to look like Putin might be behind all this.  The conspiracy with the Biden's was just a side-show.  The real shake-down with the Ukraine President was to get him to falsely admit that Ukraine, not Russia, was behind the hacking during the election of 2016.

Although we know that's not true, if even a brief case could be made, there would be grounds to argue for undoing the sanctions that have been placed on Russia and Russian oligarchs.  Those sanctions were put in place originally due to Russia's invason of Ukraine.  But, further sanctions were put down due to the IRA hacking.  It's this latter that Russia wants to undo, as they are hurting individuals, not just Russia. If Russia could toss the blame over onto the Ukrainians, they would argue to lift the sanctions.

Anyway, the nation caught Trump breaking the law, and even if it is a side-show, the law is the law.  He can be impeached right now, leave the rest for the prosecutors.

Original Quill wrote:

Maddog wrote:It appears the Ukranian phone call is just part of the story.

Indeed, it's beginning to look like Putin might be behind all this.  The conspiracy with the Biden's was just a side-show.  The real shake-down with the Ukraine President was to get him to falsely admit that Ukraine, not Russia, was behind the hacking during the election of 2016.

Although we know that's not true, if even a brief case could be made, there would be grounds to argue for undoing the sanctions that have been placed on Russia and Russian oligarchs.  Those sanctions were put in place originally due to Russia's invason of Ukraine.  But, further sanctions were put down due to the IRA hacking.  It's this latter that Russia wants to undo, as they are hurting individuals, not just Russia.  If Russia could toss the blame over onto the Ukrainians, they would argue to lift the sanctions.

Anyway, the nation caught Trump breaking the law, and even if it is a side-show, the law is the law.  He can be impeached right now, leave the rest for the prosecutors.

Keep your eye upon the doughnut, and not upon the hole, mr. junior college.

Trump characterizes his July 25th shakedown telephone call with the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, as: "PERFECT".

He may be onto something.  Perfect what?  Perfect self-interest?  Perfect shakedown?  Perfect extortion?  Perfect espionage?  Perfect obedience to Vladimir Putin?

It's perfect for something over in Trump's camp.  It's obvious he is betting on a different horse than the United States.

It's possible that Trump is planning on seeking asylum from Russia as soon as he vacates the White House. He's facing a host of criminal charges when he is no longer privileged.