16 year old Illegal immigrant dies trying to cross English channel in small dinghy

Turns out he was actually 28 and had already applied for asylum in France and been rejected... And this was his 3rd attempt at crossing channel in a few weeks...


https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sudanese-migrant-channel-death-named-abdulfatah-hamdallah-france-a9680346.html

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8646535/Sudanese-boy-16-stole-blow-childrens-boat-French-beach-hut-drowning-says-friend.html

No one wants illegal immigrants trying to enter the country this way, but no matter if he was 16 or 28, he must have been desperate to improve his life, and it's very tragic that he, and others, have risked and lost their lives this way.

They should all be rounded up and immediately deported... And keep deporting them every time they arrive in EU...


They will quickly learn that there is no point trying to make dangerous and illegal journeys and will stay where they are...

Tommy Monk wrote:They should all be rounded up and immediately deported... And keep deporting them every time they arrive in EU...

They will quickly learn that there is no point trying to make dangerous and illegal journeys and will stay where they are...

Social theory re: mass incentive thinking? Why, tommy, are you a socialist?

Tommy Monk wrote:

They should all be rounded up and immediately deported... And keep deporting them every time they arrive in EU...


They will quickly learn that there is no point trying to make dangerous and illegal journeys and will stay where they are...

The British authorities don't do that, they look at each case individually and decide whether the illegal can claim to be a genuine asylum seeker, and they will be housed and given benefits whilst this is being done.
Obviously the treatment they receive here is a lot better than the treatment they have received in other places, so why wouldn't they head for here?
If they were rounded up en masse and returned to whence they came genuine cases would be overlooked.....I don't know the answer, I just know they must be very desperate.

Economic migrants are following their own selfish desires...


France had already rejected his asylum claim there... He was not a genuine asylum claimant and should have been returned to wherever he came from...


We need to start demanding that the African Union take these people back in some sort of reception centres in Africa... They need to set these up and deal with these people in their own vast continent... And we can make them do it by threatening to stop giving them aid money until they do so...


Same for those coming from the Arab League area...

Tommy Monk wrote:Economic migrants are following their own selfish desires...

France had already rejected his asylum claim there... He was not a genuine asylum claimant and should have been returned to wherever he came from...

We need to start demanding that the African Union take these people back in some sort of reception centres in Africa... They need to set these up and deal with these people in their own vast continent... And we can make them do it by threatening to stop giving them aid money until they do so...

Same for those coming from the Arab League area...

"Reception centres?" Is that another word for "concentration camps?" How much are you planning to pay the African Union for providing this service to you? I'm sure they don't work for free. Aren't you contemplating British support in another form?

We already give huge sums of money to Africa... They need to take their own people back and place them within their own vast continent...


We shouldn't be paying them to do this... But threatening o withdraw some of the money we already give them if they don't comply...

Tommy Monk wrote:We already give huge sums of money to Africa... They need to take their own people back and place them within their own vast continent...

We shouldn't be paying them to do this... But threatening o withdraw some of the money we already give them if they don't comply...

So...you get what you pay for.

We currently get loads of shit arriving here that we don't want and costs us loads of money already...

Tommy Monk wrote:



We currently get loads of shit arriving here that we don't want and costs us loads of money already...

True, which is why each case should be dealt with individually and the ones who have no reason to be here should be deported back to whence they came.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



We currently get loads of shit arriving here that we don't want and costs us loads of money already...

True, which is why each case should be dealt with individually and the ones who have no reason to be here should be deported back to whence they came.

Immigration is always a tough call. You can't let them all in (not with a fairly robust welfare state anyway), and you can't turn them all away. So then you are forced to make often subjective calls between who stays and who doesn't.

But immigrants in France have already escaped the political problems they were fleeing. Sneaking in to the UK from France is simply an economic decision at that point.

France law states that anyone entering illegally could be jailed for a year, unsurprisingly some want to get out quick, and the UK must seem like the end of the rainbow to them.

Once here they are treated well in comparison,  I dont know what the answer is, other than to vet people closely and send back the ones without genuine reasons.

Syl wrote:France law states that anyone entering illegally could be jailed for a year, unsurprisingly some want to get out quick, and the UK must seem like the end of the rainbow to them.

Once here they are treated well in comparison,  I dont know what the answer is, other than to vet people closely and send back the ones without genuine reasons.

Well, that guy floated around France a few years. I don't think the French want to clog up their jails with illegal immigrants. What France want's to do is kick them across the channel and let y'all deal with them. That's basically the policy of a lot of European countries. Kick them down the road and make them someone else's problem.

One solution is to make sure they get nothing but emergency medical care. If they have to work for everything, then you have productive members of society.

Our immigrants get very little from the Government. Most get nothing. You better prove you can support yourself, or sneak in illegally. Either way you are going to pay your way. In spite of what Trump says, we get a pretty good class of immigrants that way.

Won't see too many immigrants marching around burning down shit. They got to get up for work in the morning.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



We currently get loads of shit arriving here that we don't want and costs us loads of money already...

True, which is why each case should be dealt with individually and the ones who have no reason to be here should be deported back to whence they came.

No... They should be stopped at their place of origin... Or stopped and processed at the first safe country they arrive in, and then returned from there to place of origin if deemed to be not qualifying as genuine refugee status... Not allowed to have free passage across numerous safe countries to carry on trying to gain illegal entry to a place of their preference, so as to then claim that although they crossed numerous safe countries to get there, that they are still legitimately entering to escape from what would be a genuine refugee status requirement...!



Are you really trying to say that someone who is a national citizen of a huge country in the middle of the continent of Africa, is unable to move to a different part of their huge country to find somewhere safe to live, and unable to find anywhere else in any other huge neighbouring country that is safe for them, and unable to find anywhere in any other huge country in the vast continent of Africa that might be safe for them to live...!!!???


Are you really saying that Africa is so dangerous that nobody can live there safely at all...!!!??


Are you really saying that African people are that dangerous and intolerant towards other africans that they can't live anywhere near any other Africans...!?


But only in Africa this is a real problem... And if you allow millions of them to live here they are all somehow no longer a threat to each other as they are in their home continent...!!!???

"Refugees can legitimately make a claim for asylum in the UK after passing through other “safe” countries."

I'm not saying anything other than some people have to be really frightened and desperate to pack up every meagre thing they own, pay traffickers extortionate amounts  and take their families on perilous journeys, sometimes ending up dead, sometimes ending up in the UK.
Maybe they have family here, maybe they see the UK as a safest place for them to settle, I know as much/little about these people as you do.

https://fullfact.org/immigration/refugees-first-safe-country/

Full fact waffle...

I watched a series where reporters kept tabs on people travelling and trying to get into the UK, I may have missed a couple of episodes but no one was obviously in fear of their lives with the possible exception of an Iraqi man. All the others were looking for more money. One young African was sent by his family who paid a lot of money to people traffickers to get him to the UK and for him to work and send money back to fuel their lifestyle. it showed his family many brothers and sisters in a house that was full of expensive furniture, the brothers had motorbikes, all were well dressed and the sisters had the usual fashionable nails, they were not poor by any standards let alone by African ones. Their father ran some kind of business but had died and no one seemed to be carrying it on, so a big fat mama, elaborately dressed, coiffured and made up was lecturing him on his duty to go to the UK find a job and take care of them.
I couldn't understand this as
a. there was a business already up and running
b. he didn't seem to have skills required to make a boat load of money here
so any money he did make that he would be able to send home would therefore keep the rest of the idle family in the way they were used to so the cost of living couldn't surely be very much where they were..
Or they were totally misguided about life and work in the UK.

Vintage wrote:I watched a series where reporters kept tabs on people travelling and trying to get into the UK, I may have missed a couple of episodes but no one was obviously in fear of their lives with the possible exception of an Iraqi man. All the others were looking for more money. One young African was sent by his family who paid a lot of money to people traffickers to get him to the UK and for him to work and send money back to fuel their lifestyle. it showed his family many brothers and sisters in a house that was full of expensive furniture, the brothers had motorbikes, all were well dressed and the sisters had the usual fashionable nails, they were not poor by any standards let alone by African ones. Their father ran some kind of business but had died and no one seemed to be carrying it on, so a big fat mama, elaborately dressed, coiffured and made up was lecturing him on his duty to go to the UK find a job and take care of them.
I couldn't understand this as
a. there was a business already up and running
b. he didn't seem to have skills required to make a boat load of money here
so any money he did make that he would be able to send home would therefore keep the rest of the idle family in the way they were used to so the cost of living couldn't surely be very much where they were..
Or they were totally misguided about life and work in the UK.

Are you sure you are talking about asylum seekers? If it is someone leaving home because of fear for his life, the comfort of the surroundings is not an issue. If he is not threatened for political or other hostile reasons, just say 'no'. The system works fine if you let it.

Exactly vintage...!


And Quill... The system doesn't work because once they get here they destroy all their ID and make up new names and bullshit stories about fake persecution etc, we've also had loads of fully grown adult men pretending they are 15-16 etc so they can get better treatment and an easier ride on the benefits system...


I remember one story where this grown man pretended he was 15 and got placed at a school and ended up raping one of the girls...


Once they get here it is highly unlikely they are ever removed...


We even have lefty twats protesting and disrupting some of the removals that do actually happen...

Tommy Monk wrote:And Quill... The system doesn't work because once they get here they destroy all their ID and make up new names and bullshit stories about fake persecution etc, we've also had loads of fully grown adult men pretending they are 15-16 etc so they can get better treatment and an easier ride on the benefits system...

I remember one story where this grown man pretended he was 15 and got placed at a school and ended up raping one of the girls...

Once they get here it is highly unlikely they are ever removed...

We even have lefty twats protesting and disrupting some of the removals that do actually happen...

It seems you are saying the system does work, it's just enforcement that fails in Britain. Well...fix what's broke; leave the rest alone.

No the system doesn't work...

Your own words belie that. It's enforcement that isn't working.

The system doesn't work because of the reasons I gave...

As far as I remembered no one was in fear of their life with the possible exception of the Iraqi man could have been Afghan.

There's anywhere from half a million to a million illigal immigrants living in the UK.

Imagine the manpower and other resources it would take to ferret out that many people and deport them.

The nation would either have to go deeply into debt or raise taxes sharply to fund such an operation.

Syl wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:



We currently get loads of shit arriving here that we don't want and costs us loads of money already...

True, which is why each case should be dealt with individually and the ones who have no reason to be here should be deported back to whence they came.

I completely agree.

Shouldn't there be a pan European organisation situated on the European borders that vet and distribute asylum seekers wanting to come to Europe and to sift out the economic migrants before they start journeying around the continent at will. All countries in Europe could pay in and have officers from all the countries working there. It seems its something we all need to take part in properly.

The UK can't even afford to police the face-masks-in-public-buildings rule, I just can't really see the money somehow materializing to round up 500,000-plus people and deport them. I think it's a pipe dream.

The problem requires a different solution, maybe harsher punishments for undocumented immigrants. Or an easier path to citizenship for law-abiding immigrants.

As a rule, governments only mount massive programs for two reasons -- either to salvage their economic future or for national defense.

Ben Reilly wrote:The UK can't even afford to police the face-masks-in-public-buildings rule, I just can't really see the money somehow materializing to round up 500,000-plus people and deport them. I think it's a pipe dream.

The problem requires a different solution, maybe harsher punishments for undocumented immigrants. Or an easier path to citizenship for law-abiding immigrants.

As a rule, governments only mount massive programs for two reasons -- either to salvage their economic future or for national defense.

I think this is more about the people already in France that want to come to the UK.

The world has changed once there was room or even demand for anyone to move around for economic reasons, now with populations in most countries this is no longer desirable due to pressure on resources and where are the jobs going to materialise from with so many jobs gone or automated already, to allow people a living?

I scream about all of them.

Vintage wrote:I scream about all of them.

I mostly scream when I see a spider.

That too!
There was a programme on the other day, I managed to watch it for awhile then couldn't take anymore re spiders and why the males dance and have 'tail feathers' that apparently vibrate because spiders can't hear as such but feel the vibrations.
Beautifully coloured tiny spiders but seeing them made me feel like running away screaming my head off.

Vintage wrote:That too!
There was a programme on the other day, I managed to watch it for awhile then couldn't take anymore re spiders and why the males dance and have 'tail feathers' that apparently vibrate because spiders can't hear as such but feel the vibrations.
Beautifully coloured tiny spiders but seeing them made me feel like running away screaming my head off.

Oooh I couldn’t watch that! I’d get all itchy and start seeing scuttling shapes out of the corner of my eye

The scuttling is very off putting but its the thought of so many eyes as well.

I think right-wingers tend to see tax avoiders as people who've beaten the system, whereas they see people who cheat to get benefits as people who take more than their fair share. I can understand that viewpoint, but they should still realize things like the NHS, for example, suffer far more because of tax avoiders than they do because of benefits scammers.

Vintage wrote:Shouldn't there be a pan European organisation situated on the European borders that vet and distribute asylum seekers wanting to come to Europe and to sift out the economic migrants before they start journeying around the continent at will. All countries in Europe could pay in and have officers from all the countries working there. It seems its something we all need to take part in properly.

Britain is not enthusiastic about pan European anything these days. I doubt it would participate.

Vintage wrote:Shouldn't there be a pan European organisation situated on the European borders that vet and distribute asylum seekers wanting to come to Europe and to sift out the economic migrants before they start journeying around the continent at will. All countries in Europe could pay in and have officers from all the countries working there. It seems its something we all need to take part in properly.

No... They should be returned to their own continent for the countries there to deal with them...!