Taking the Knee.

by Syl Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:13 pm

God...I hate that expression, and I agree with a lot of what Dominic Raab has said.
No idea about the Game of Thrones connection, but I also think it looks like an act of subordination rather than liberation.

"Dominic Raab: taking the knee 'feels like symbol of subjugation'

The pose, in which people pause with one knee on the ground, has become ubiquitous as a way of showing support for Black Lives Matter and respect for those such as George Floyd, who died at the hands of police in Minneapolis.

The Labour leader, Keir Starmer, is among those in the UK who have adopted the pose. Some police officers have also done so at protests, , and Premier League footballers and officials took the knee on Wednesday before the first games since the pause in the season caused by coronavirus.

Speaking to Talk Radio on Thursday, Raab was asked whether he would adopt the pose. He replied: “Do you know what? I understand this sense of frustration, of restlessness, which is driving the Black Lives Matter movement.

“I’ve got say, on this take the knee thing – which, I don’t know, maybe it’s got a broader history but it seems to be taken from the Game of Thrones – feels to me like a symbol of subjugation and subordination, rather than one of liberation and emancipation. But I understand people feel differently about it, so it’s a matter of personal choice.”

It is not clear why Raab believed the pose came from Game of Thrones, the popular TV fantasy series.

It began in 2016 when Kaepernick, then a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, opted to sit on the team bench rather than stand for the pre-NFL game rendition of the US national anthem, in protest against racism and police brutality.

Asked whether he would take the knee to show solidarity with Black Lives Matter, Raab said he would not, adding: “I’d take the knee for two people: the Queen and the Mrs when I asked her to marry me.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/18/dominic-raab-taking-the-knee-feels-like-symbol-of-subjugation

by nicko Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:02 pm

I agree entirely ,I think the bending of the Knee came about when a defeated Knight went down on one knee to present his Sword to his winning opponent !

by HoratioTarr Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:10 pm

Syl wrote:God...I hate that expression, and I agree with a lot of what Dominic Raab has said.
No idea about the Game of Thrones connection, but I also think it looks like an act of subordination rather than liberation.

"Dominic Raab: taking the knee 'feels like symbol of subjugation'

The pose, in which people pause with one knee on the ground, has become ubiquitous as a way of showing support for Black Lives Matter and respect for those such as George Floyd, who died at the hands of police in Minneapolis.

The Labour leader, Keir Starmer, is among those in the UK who have adopted the pose. Some police officers have also done so at protests, , and Premier League footballers and officials took the knee on Wednesday before the first games since the pause in the season caused by coronavirus.

Speaking to Talk Radio on Thursday, Raab was asked whether he would adopt the pose. He replied: “Do you know what? I understand this sense of frustration, of restlessness, which is driving the Black Lives Matter movement.

“I’ve got say, on this take the knee thing – which, I don’t know, maybe it’s got a broader history but it seems to be taken from the Game of Thrones – feels to me like a symbol of subjugation and subordination, rather than one of liberation and emancipation. But I understand people feel differently about it, so it’s a matter of personal choice.”

It is not clear why Raab believed the pose came from Game of Thrones, the popular TV fantasy series.

It began in 2016 when Kaepernick, then a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, opted to sit on the team bench rather than stand for the pre-NFL game rendition of the US national anthem, in protest against racism and police brutality.

Asked whether he would take the knee to show solidarity with Black Lives Matter, Raab said he would not, adding: “I’d take the knee for two people: the Queen and the Mrs when I asked her to marry me.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/18/dominic-raab-taking-the-knee-feels-like-symbol-of-subjugation

I'll answer pretty much as I did over there.

I think what the police did to Floyd was disgusting, but I don't need to kneel in public to prove to the world and every idiot on social media that I'm not a racist, or that I sympathise with what happened to this man. Nor will I bow to mob pressure. What makes me sick is that no fucker is kneeling for Lee Rigby. Or those kids slaughtered at the Manchester Arena. Or the millions who died fighting to keep this country free of oppression. The hyperbole surrounding this 'craze' is beginning to grate with me, and most people I know.

I think the statues that have caused all this stink should have been removed decades ago and put in a museum where we can best remember the past and learn from it. It can't be erased, nor should it be. Having said this, the very people being demonstrated against built the society each of these demonstrators live in and have thrived in. if not for people like Winston Churchill who had the backbone to guide their country against Nazi rule, the world would be a very different place.

by Victorismyhero Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:15 pm

BLM just shows exactly what liberalism IS, and the danger it represents to an ordered society.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:30 pm

Kneeling is a sign of respect for the dead. To show respect is not unlike bowing to Royalty. The Brits among you should recognize that. But it further says, I recognize and respect your contribution and sacrifice.

One kneels at a particular grave site--a brother, father or a combat hero, for example, in a military cemetery.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:37 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:BLM just shows exactly what liberalism IS, and the danger it represents to an ordered society.

That sounds strangely familiar. Were you ever at a Hitler rally in Munich? Just substitute JEWS for BLM, and let the march begin.

by Vintage Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:38 pm

Not so much here maybe where you are it happens. In fact I've never seen it, people bow their head at graves and memorials.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:48 pm

Vintage wrote:Not so much here maybe where you are it happens. In fact I've never seen it, people bow their head at graves and memorials.

Right, and if it is someone you wish to honor deeply, you take a knee. It’s a form of genuflect…god be with you. I’m not Roman myself, but it’s metaphorical.

Taking the Knee. 106139816-bavarian-man-kneeling-in-front-of-a-grave

Taking the Knee. 106139816-bavarian-man-kneeling-in-front-of-a-grave

Remember too, that America is much more multi-cultural than the UK.

by Vintage Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:58 pm

Not around here, mostly Non Conformists, Protestants and agnostics, I can't see many Brits doing anything like that, more a head bow or a salute if military or ex military.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:59 pm

Vintage wrote:Not around here, mostly Non Conformists, Protestants and agnostics, I can't see many Brits doing anything like that, more a head bow or a salute if military or ex military.

I understand. You have a state religion, and it is quite modest an undemonstrative. Nevertheless, America is much more multi-cultural than the UK.

by Victorismyhero Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:31 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Victorismyhero wrote:BLM just shows exactly what liberalism IS, and the danger it represents to an ordered society.

That sounds strangely familiar. Were you ever at a Hitler rally in Munich? Just substitute JEWS for BLM, and let the march begin.

dont talk such crap...I thought you were educated...not snowflaked

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:37 pm

Victorismyhero wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That sounds strangely familiar. Were you ever at a Hitler rally in Munich? Just substitute JEWS for BLM, and let the march begin.

dont talk such crap...I thought you were educated...not snowflaked

And I thought you were more temperate than that. Really...your comment was of a genre right out of Alan Bullock, Hitler: A Study in Tyranny (1952). That doesn't sound like the Vic I know.

Mad

by Syl Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:41 pm

Vintage wrote:Not so much here maybe where you are it happens. In fact I've never seen it, people bow their head at graves and memorials.

The only time I have seen it is lately on TV when people seem to have jumped on the BLM bandwagon, in old films where it was usually the likes of Erol Flynn grovelling around on one knee, or on Twitter, where ridiculous mothers think it's 'cool' to have their kids kneeling and holding up placards. As soon as the camera is put down they are possibly back to treating their kids with disdain or ignoring them....great lesson learned there. Rolling Eyes

by Syl Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:43 pm

Respect and solidarity is shown in the way you treat your fellow human beings, not in a faddy showboat way when a camera is recording.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:48 pm

Fuck fakebook and fuck virtue signall bullshit!

by Vintage Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:50 pm

Until recently perhaps, people would have thought you odd to 'take a knee' other than at an investiture or coronation, its just not done here. If someone did it at a funeral people would think you were making an exhibition of yourself and drawing attention away from the deceased or whoever you were honouring, maybe that's all changing.
Like others have stated its not the way I would support a cause or person but it doesn't mean it or they would not have my support. You do what you do I'll do what I do to support a good cause.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:52 pm

Syl wrote:Respect and solidarity is shown in the way you treat your fellow human beings, not in a faddy showboat way when a camera is recording.

I've always thought the way you Brits bow at Royalty is silly, as well. But it is a signal...a form of communicating respect. It's part of the culture, and who am I to judge? Taking the Knee. 2190311264

by Syl Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:56 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:Respect and solidarity is shown in the way you treat your fellow human beings, not in a faddy showboat way when a camera is recording.

I've always thought the way you Brits bow at Royalty is silly, as well. But it is a signal...a form of communicating respect. It's part of the culture, and who am I to judge?

Bowing of the head is imo a gesture that shows complete respect, be it for the queen, the dead, or for anything else come to that.
I am not a royalist though, maybe other people would think differently.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:02 pm

Vintage wrote:Until recently perhaps, people would have thought you odd to 'take a knee' other than at an investiture or coronation, its just not done here. If someone did it at a funeral people would think you were making an exhibition of yourself and drawing attention away from the deceased or whoever you were honouring, maybe that's all changing.
Like others have stated its not the way I would support a cause or person but it doesn't mean it or they would not have my support. You do what you do I'll do what I do to support a good cause.

I think the point is, to make an exhibition of yourself. You are showing deference and respect. What is a flag, or all those silly ribbons on the breast of a soldier? Some cultures go in for that.

It is a given that the British culture is more muted and less demonstrative in that way. I think everyone understands that about the British.

by Syl Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:03 pm

Well we are certainly less inclined to showboat and brag than the average American. Twisted Evil

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:08 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I've always thought the way you Brits bow at Royalty is silly, as well. But it is a signal...a form of communicating respect. It's part of the culture, and who am I to judge?

Bowing of the head is imo a gesture that shows complete respect, be it for the queen, the dead, or for anything else come to that.
I am not a royalist though, maybe other people would think differently.

I'm not a royalist either...modernly. I think the origin of bowing toward a Royal is a gesture of fealty, which is meaningless in a day of democratic government.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:13 pm

Syl wrote:Well we are certainly less inclined to showboat and brag than the average American.

Or, how about South Americans or Indians...or the ostentatiousness of the Russians? Some cultures go in for a lot of show. For me, I appreciate the coolness and understatement of British reserve.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:22 pm

Syl wrote:Well we are certainly less inclined to showboat and brag than the average American.

Hahaha... That is southerners and their affinity for overabundance...quantity over quality. In the north, they have a taste for austerity and economy. Taking the Knee. 4214183177

by Maddog Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:27 pm

Vintage wrote:Not so much here maybe where you are it happens. In fact I've never seen it, people bow their head at graves and memorials.

It doesn't happen here either. Americans don't even bow, let a lone take a knee. Catholics may kneel in prayer, which is not the same as taking a knee.

Quill is just full of shit, per as usual.

by Original Quill Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:37 pm

Kneeling at graves does happen frequently in America and Europe. It happens enough to be understood as a metaphor for prayer and absolution.

If Redneck were interested in honest discussion, instead of accumulating insults and gotchas, he would admit it too.

by JulesV Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:34 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
I'll answer pretty much as I did over there.
I think what the police did to Floyd was disgusting but I don't need to kneel in publicto prove to the world and every idiot on social media that I'm not a racist, or that I sympathise with what happened to this man. Nor will I bow to mob pressure. What makes me sick is that no fucker is kneeling for Lee Rigby.Or those kids slaughtered at the Manchester Arena. Or the millions who died fighting to keep this country free of oppression. The hyperbole surrounding this 'craze' is beginning to grate with me, and most people I know. think the statues that have caused all this stink should have been removed decades ago and put in a museum where we can best remember the past and learn from it. It can't be erased, nor should it be. Having said this, the very people being demonstrated against built the society each of these demonstrators live in and have thrived in. if not for people like Winston Churchill who had the backbone to guide their country against Nazi rule, the world would be a very different place .

but I don't need to kneel in public
Some very influential people (like politicians, sportsmen and showbiz stars) were asked to kneel - and it's up to them to decide if they want to. Some agreed, some didn't. But ordinary folk don't HAVE to kneel, so what's the problem? Taking the Knee. 2190311264

The ordinary people who did kneel, did so out of their own free will. It's a free country and they can kneel if they wish.

What makes me sick is that no fucker is kneeling for Lee Rigby
The reason people did not kneel for Lee Rigby was simply because kneeling is not their style or culture or tradition. They did plenty of OTHER equivalent things instead, things which fit in with British traditions. Like head bowing, holding a minute of silence, laying wreaths, setting up go-fund-me pages, commemorative plaques etc. His offspring was also compensated.

Finally remember that Lee Rigby was killed by terrorists. Evil terrorists who deprived an innocent man of his life. Ditto the Manchester arena folk. BUT this kneeling demo was specifically about police brutality. The very professionals in whom the community puts its trust, were running around executing people.

MASSIVE difference between uniformed professionals routinely assaulting the community .... versus evil terrorists killing random people.

by JulesV Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:48 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Bowing of the head is imo a gesture that shows complete respect, be it for the queen, the dead, or for anything else come to that.
I am not a royalist though, maybe other people would think differently.

I'm not a royalist either...modernly. I think the origin of bowing toward a Royal is a gesture of fealty, which is meaningless in a day of democratic government.

I don't get all the fuss.
Kneel if you want. Don't if you don't want to. Simple!!
Who cares what social media think?

The last time I kneeled was in church MANY years ago and that's how it will stay. lol!

I don't plan on doing any kneeling and I'm not on social media.

Tbh I think some folks who are kneeling -like the older politicians, are just trying to show off that they're slim enough to do it and their knees are strong enough to withstand it.
Show offs! cherry

by Original Quill Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:18 am

JulesV wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I'm not a royalist either...modernly. I think the origin of bowing toward a Royal is a gesture of fealty, which is meaningless in a day of democratic government.

I don't get all the fuss.
Kneel if you want. Don't if you don't want to. Simple!!
Who cares what social media think?

Hi Jules, welcome. This conversation is now into its third day. I think it began because some British demonstrators were kneeling a la Colin Kaepernick, who started doing it in honor of the BLM movement.

That began a discussion of what kneeling meant generically, and what was the origin of it. Then the conversation drifted into how kneeling wasn't an English tradition.

It's kinda drifted off into smoke from there.

by Didgee Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:54 am

Kneeling has always been a form of subjugation. Whether this be through religion or through power

Nobody should take the knee to anything or anyone. As you are subjugating yourself to what you are kneeling for

You do not combat real racism through such empty gestures.

Is nothing more than virtue signalling

by Maddog Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:59 am

JulesV wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I'm not a royalist either...modernly. I think the origin of bowing toward a Royal is a gesture of fealty, which is meaningless in a day of democratic government.

I don't get all the fuss.
Kneel if you want. Don't if you don't want to. Simple!!
Who cares what social media think?

The last time I kneeled was in church MANY years ago and that's how it will stay. I don't plan on doing any kneeling and I'm not on social media.

Tbh I think some folks who are kneeling -like the older politicians, are just trying to show off that they're slim enough to do it and their knees are strong enough to withstand it.
Show offs!

Kneeling isn't taking a knee. Two different things. No one takes a knee in church. They kneel.

by Original Quill Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:07 am

Maddog wrote:
JulesV wrote:

I don't get all the fuss.
Kneel if you want. Don't if you don't want to. Simple!!
Who cares what social media think?

The last time I kneeled was in church MANY years ago and that's how it will stay. I don't plan on doing any kneeling and I'm not on social media.

Tbh I think some folks who are kneeling -like the older politicians, are just trying to show off that they're slim enough to do it and their knees are strong enough to withstand it.
Show offs!

Kneeling isn't taking a knee. Two different things. No one takes a knee in church. They kneel.

Semantic argument.

Taking the Knee. 106139816-bavarian-man-kneeling-in-front-of-a-grave

Like that.

by Maddog Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:10 am

I sometimes kneel picking up something I drop too. Rolling Eyes

by Syl Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:16 pm

Maddog wrote:I sometimes kneel picking up something I drop too.

You are lucky, I had a complete knee replacement a few years ago, it's impossible to kneel after that.
I could 'take the knee' because my other knee in kneelable, but I never will.

by JulesV Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:03 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Kneeling isn't taking a knee. Two different things. No one takes a knee in church. They kneel.

Semantic argument.

Yeah it's cumbersome to keep writing 'taking a knee' so people just say 'kneeling' and it's understood that you mean just one knee.

by JulesV Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:07 pm

Maddog wrote:
JulesV wrote:

......................

Kneeling isn't taking a knee. Two different things. No one takes a knee in church. They kneel.

Meh I used a lazy short cut - sue me, grammarly guy. tongue

by Maddog Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:25 pm

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:I sometimes kneel picking up something I drop too.

You are lucky, I had a complete knee replacement a few years ago, it's impossible to kneel after that.
I could 'take the knee' because my other knee in kneelable, but I never will.

So lunges are out too?

Which I guess could be considered taking a knee. Cool

by Original Quill Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:43 pm

Syl wrote:
Maddog wrote:I sometimes kneel picking up something I drop too.

You are lucky, I had a complete knee replacement a few years ago, it's impossible to kneel after that.
I could 'take the knee' because my other knee in kneelable, but I never will.

I've had a prosthetic knee for some time now, and I know what you mean by un-kneelable. You don't even want to think of putting pressure on it.

by Original Quill Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:51 pm

JulesV wrote:
Maddog wrote:

Kneeling isn't taking a knee. Two different things. No one takes a knee in church. They kneel.

Meh I used a lazy short cut - sue me, grammarly guy.

RW'ers want to bury the point in minutia, when we all know what it means. Colin Kaepernick takes the (original) knee (right):

Taking the Knee. 73e8ff764fde5e4265aecaed93406adae6da0f41

Taking the Knee. 73e8ff764fde5e4265aecaed93406adae6da0f41

by Syl Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:02 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

You are lucky, I had a complete knee replacement a few years ago, it's impossible to kneel after that.
I could 'take the knee' because my other knee in kneelable, but I never will.

I've had a prosthetic knee for some time now, and I know what you mean by un-kneelable. You don't even want to think of putting pressure on it.

Did you have the complete knee removed Quill? Is it good?
Apart from kneeling, I have been able to do everything my real knee did before it was knackered.

by Original Quill Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:55 pm

Syl wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I've had a prosthetic knee for some time now, and I know what you mean by un-kneelable. You don't even want to think of putting pressure on it.

Did you have the complete knee removed Quill? Is it good?
Apart from kneeling, I have been able to do everything my real knee did before it was knackered.

Yes, mine was a complete knee, not a partial. So far, it has worked just fine.

Personally, I watch my weight. You don't want to put too much stress on it. The mechanical part is fine, but the connection, where the natural bone fuses with the titanium, cannot take too great a load.

by Syl Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:01 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Syl wrote:

Did you have the complete knee removed Quill? Is it good?
Apart from kneeling, I have been able to do everything my real knee did before it was knackered.

Yes, mine was a complete knee, not a partial. So far, it has worked just fine.

Personally, I watch my weight. You don't want to put too much stress on it. The mechanical part is fine, but the connection, where the natural bone fuses with the titanium, cannot take too great a load.

I was told that my new knee would do everything my old knee did only better, and it does. cheers

Glad you do well with yours too. cheers

by Original Quill Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:03 pm

Yep.

by HoratioTarr Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:03 pm

JulesV wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:
I'll answer pretty much as I did over there.
I think what the police did to Floyd was disgusting but I don't need to kneel in publicto prove to the world and every idiot on social media that I'm not a racist, or that I sympathise with what happened to this man. Nor will I bow to mob pressure. What makes me sick is that no fucker is kneeling for Lee Rigby.Or those kids slaughtered at the Manchester Arena. Or the millions who died fighting to keep this country free of oppression. The hyperbole surrounding this 'craze' is beginning to grate with me, and most people I know. think the statues that have caused all this stink should have been removed decades ago and put in a museum where we can best remember the past and learn from it. It can't be erased, nor should it be. Having said this, the very people being demonstrated against built the society each of these demonstrators live in and have thrived in. if not for people like Winston Churchill who had the backbone to guide their country against Nazi rule, the world would be a very different place .

but I don't need to kneel in public
Some very influential people (like politicians, sportsmen and showbiz stars) were asked to kneel - and it's up to them to decide if they want to. Some agreed, some didn't. But ordinary folk don't HAVE to kneel, so what's the problem? The ordinary people who did kneel, did so out of their own free will. It's a free country and they can kneel if they wish.

There is no problem. It's just not for me. Which is how a lot of people feel. But when this kind of thing takes flight, many feel pressured in public to do the same. The herd mentality. If you dare speak out about it, you feel that collective wrath. And that equates to social bullying which I detest.

What makes me sick is that no fucker is kneeling for Lee Rigby
The reason people did not kneel for Lee Rigby was simply because kneeling is not their style or culture or tradition. They did plenty of OTHER equivalent things instead, things which fit in with British traditions. Like head bowing, holding a minute of silence, laying wreaths, setting up go-fund-me pages, commemorative plaques etc. His offspring was also compensated.

Finally remember that Lee Rigby was killed by terrorists. Evil terrorists who deprived an innocent man of his life. Ditto the Manchester arena folk. BUT this kneeling demo was specifically about police brutality. The very professionals in whom the community puts its trust, were running around executing people.

MASSIVE difference between uniformed professionals routinely assaulting the community .... versus evil terrorists killing random people.

There's no difference. It's just another head on the same beast.

by JulesV Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:24 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
JulesV wrote:

Finally remember that Lee Rigby was killed by terrorists. Evil terrorists who deprived an innocent man of his life. Ditto the Manchester arena folk. BUT this kneeling demo was specifically about police brutality. The very professionals in whom the community puts its trust, were running around executing people.

MASSIVE difference between uniformed professionals routinely assaulting the community .... versus evil terrorists killing random people.

There's no difference.

It's just another head on the same beast.

That is not a decent reply it's just a glib remark which could be used as a general reply to any old question.

The kneel thing is a very recent import from America - practically no one here had even heard of it 7 years ago when poor Lee Rigby died. Would have been absurd to see any kneeling for him in the UK at that time, or now.

I get that you were irritated by the whole kneel thing, some people here regard it as a gaudy, showy Americanism.
I also get that you are angry that you were asked on SM to participate in something so alien to you.

But I don't get the connection with Rigby. You are taking his name in vain and dragging him into something that does not remotely relate to him and using his name to justify your rage.

Rigby was a proud brit and he got a wonderful traditional British send off - huge crowds, flags everywhere, brass band, military parade, guard of honour, the full works. Nothing was amiss. I'm sure his grieving family was satisfied.

The fact that these police brutality protests went worldwide, every continent got involved, should tell you something.

by eddie Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:41 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Syl wrote:God...I hate that expression, and I agree with a lot of what Dominic Raab has said.
No idea about the Game of Thrones connection, but I also think it looks like an act of subordination rather than liberation.

"Dominic Raab: taking the knee 'feels like symbol of subjugation'

The pose, in which people pause with one knee on the ground, has become ubiquitous as a way of showing support for Black Lives Matter and respect for those such as George Floyd, who died at the hands of police in Minneapolis.

The Labour leader, Keir Starmer, is among those in the UK who have adopted the pose. Some police officers have also done so at protests, , and Premier League footballers and officials took the knee on Wednesday before the first games since the pause in the season caused by coronavirus.

Speaking to Talk Radio on Thursday, Raab was asked whether he would adopt the pose. He replied: “Do you know what? I understand this sense of frustration, of restlessness, which is driving the Black Lives Matter movement.

“I’ve got say, on this take the knee thing – which, I don’t know, maybe it’s got a broader history but it seems to be taken from the Game of Thrones – feels to me like a symbol of subjugation and subordination, rather than one of liberation and emancipation. But I understand people feel differently about it, so it’s a matter of personal choice.”

It is not clear why Raab believed the pose came from Game of Thrones, the popular TV fantasy series.

It began in 2016 when Kaepernick, then a quarterback for the San Francisco 49ers, opted to sit on the team bench rather than stand for the pre-NFL game rendition of the US national anthem, in protest against racism and police brutality.

Asked whether he would take the knee to show solidarity with Black Lives Matter, Raab said he would not, adding: “I’d take the knee for two people: the Queen and the Mrs when I asked her to marry me.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/18/dominic-raab-taking-the-knee-feels-like-symbol-of-subjugation

I'll answer pretty much as I did over there.

I think what the police did to Floyd was disgusting, but I don't need to kneel in public to prove to the world and every idiot on social media that I'm not a racist, or that I sympathise with what happened to this man. Nor will I bow to mob pressure. What makes me sick is that no fucker is kneeling for Lee Rigby. Or those kids slaughtered at the Manchester Arena. Or the millions who died fighting to keep this country free of oppression. The hyperbole surrounding this 'craze' is beginning to grate with me, and most people I know.

I think the statues that have caused all this stink should have been removed decades ago and put in a museum where we can best remember the past and learn from it. It can't be erased, nor should it be. Having said this, the very people being demonstrated against built the society each of these demonstrators live in and have thrived in. if not for people like Winston Churchill who had the backbone to guide their country against Nazi rule, the world would be a very different place.

Very well said.

by Ben Reilly Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:45 pm

What's happening right now is a lot of open, honest communication, and that gets messy. Hurt feelings come up. Misunderstandings will be revealed. It's a process that can't be hurried and has to happen.

Society will improve if we don't lose trust in the sincerity of the majority of people on both sides of this issue. If we stop listening, stop communicating, things will only get worse.

by JulesV Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:53 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:What's happening right now is a lot of open, honest communication, and that gets messy. Hurt feelings come up. Misunderstandings will be revealed. It's a process that can't be hurried and has to happen.

Society will improve if we don't lose trust in the sincerity of the majority of people on both sides of this issue. If we stop listening, stop communicating, things will only get worse.

They managed to communicate their feelings to people in every corner of the planet in a very short space of time. Well done to them.

I get that this whole alien kneeling thing would jar against conservative tastes, I get that bit. But involving a 7 year old incident unrelated to police brutality in this, no I don't get that bit.

by Vintage Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:05 am

Supporting a cause in the way you wish is one thing, being coerced by community pressure into showing your support in a particular way, either by 'taking a knee' or businesses putting up a sign saying you support BLM because you are afraid there may be consequences is something else - fascism.

by eddie Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:07 am

Vintage wrote:Supporting a cause in the way you wish is one thing, being coerced by community pressure into showing your support in a particular way, either by 'taking a knee' or businesses putting up a sign saying you support BLM because you are afraid there may be consequences is something else - fascism.

Well said.

by Ben Reilly Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:29 am

In American sports, it's common for coaches/managers to gather the team after a loss or during a period when they're struggling and tell everyone to "take a knee." It basically means, "Listen up, it's time to listen and learn something." The coach will then generally give some kind of inspirational or tough-love kind of speech.

I always thought that's what Kaepernick was getting at. That there was a lesson America needed (and still needs) to learn.

Anger, combativeness and thinking we understand one another perfectly enough already isn't going to accomplish anything.

Taking a knee for a while, and listening, and learning, is the best way forward for everyone, from BLM to the people who are so pissed off at BLM.

by Sponsored content