If unemployment were paid on to a card..

BigAndy9 wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Maybe if less monitoring more simple "has this child been harmed? yes or no" was used the money would cover more children.

Who is going to ask that question?

When?

Where?



And who is going to answer it?

sphinx wrote:

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:lets face it we all use our money in the ways we see fit, some go out every weekend, some do sports, if you earn it use it how you like, you earned it but if you are getting hand outs why shouldn't they be checked to make sure the money is being used with care and properly, if someone gets money for their three kids why shouldn't it be clear that money clothes and feeds those kids and not buys fags, booze and tattoos..

So make it simple - if the kids are clean clothed and fed the parents can do what they want with the rest of the money (bearing in mind the vast majority have worked and paid taxes and NI) and that is their right - if the kids are dirty cold and hungry they are taken into care regardless of whether the parents are working or not.

Why do we have to complicate things?

sphinx wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

Who is going to ask that question?

When?

Where?



And who is going to answer it?

I had no idea working out whether a child had suffered harm was so difficult.

FluffyBunny wrote:

Guest wrote:like a debit card and they had to purchase solely through that card, what they purchased could be vetted, anything that was not imperative such as fags, booze, tattoos that showed up on the purchases would be deducted from their next months money...  

I think not.

Its 2014,not 1984.

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:its about time we knew where the benefits with give away are used...

BigAndy9 wrote:

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:its about time we knew where the benefits with give away are used...

I couldn't agree more.

I'm all for house inspections - if we're serious about caring for the children - raid their homes, see how they are living, see what 50 inch TVs they've got - Sky HD, Xbox's - check it all out!

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


I couldn't agree more.

I'm all for house inspections - if we're serious about caring for the children - raid their homes, see how they are living, see what 50 inch TVs they've got - Sky HD, Xbox's - check it all out!

that would show up on their spending cards...

BigAndy9 wrote:

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:its about time we knew where the benefits with give away are used...

I couldn't agree more.

I'm all for house inspections - if we're serious about caring for the children - raid their homes, see how they are living, see what 50 inch TVs they've got - Sky HD, Xbox's - check it all out!

BigAndy9 wrote:

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

that would show up on their spending cards...

I know - I'm all for it, as I've said.

sphinx wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


I know - I'm all for it, as I've said.

What if what shows up on their card is they have paid a couple of pound  into savings for a year and bought something second hand?  Are they allowed to do that?

sphinx wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


I know - I'm all for it, as I've said.

What if what shows up on their card is they have paid a couple of pound  into savings for a year and bought something second hand?  Are they allowed to do that?

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

sphinx wrote:

What if what shows up on their card is they have paid a couple of pound  into savings for a year and bought something second hand?  Are they allowed to do that?

if they had money to save they didn't need all the benefits i guess...

BigAndy9 wrote:

sphinx wrote:

What if what shows up on their card is they have paid a couple of pound  into savings for a year and bought something second hand?  Are they allowed to do that?

Yep.

Any other questions?

Look sphinx, what we don't want is silly spending.  I believe they have plenty to live on, therefore saving up is ok.  A couple of beers is ok.  Silly spending?  Not ok!

sphinx wrote:

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

if they had money to save they didn't need all the benefits i guess...

So not allowed to decide to fast one day a week and put the money they would have used for food that day into a savings account to get the kids an X box second hand.

sphinx wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


Yep.

Any other questions?

Look sphinx, what we don't want is silly spending.  I believe they have plenty to live on, therefore saving up is ok.  A couple of beers is ok.  Silly spending?  Not ok!

But that means defining what is and is not silly spending.

BigAndy9 wrote:Why would a group of people on here on some days say people are starving and can't make ends meet, missing meals etc so the kids can have one.

And then on other days argue the toss over those same people having a beer and doing the leisure activities they want?

Original Quill wrote:

sphinx wrote:

But that means defining what is and is not silly spending.

No, what they will find is that nearly all people have the same spending habits.  

What they are looking for is a form of harassment.  However, I'd be willing to go along as long as it was uniformly applied to the wealthy.  I think such data on spending could be most revealing.  And in fact...

Google is going about something of the same thing, for marketing purposes.  Nobody complains, and apparently the data collected are invaluable.

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

sphinx wrote:

So not allowed to decide to fast one day a week and put the money they would have used for food that day into a savings account to get the kids an X box second hand.

if they have to miss meals as they cannot afford to buy food, i don't think fasting to buy an xbox would be a good idea really..

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

No, what they will find is that nearly all people have the same spending habits.  

What they are looking for is a form of harassment.  However, I'd be willing to go along as long as it was uniformly applied to the wealthy.  I think such data on spending could be most revealing.  And in fact...

Google is going about something of the same thing, for marketing purposes.  Nobody complains, and apparently the data collected are invaluable.

if people have earned their money they can spend it as they wish, part of the incentive  to work, if they are taking benefits they will be tracked on how they use those benefits....

sphinx wrote:

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

if people have earned their money they can spend it as they wish, part of the incentive  to work, if they are taking benefits they will be tracked on how they use those benefits....

What about when those benefits come from the 30 years of NI/tax paid by them when they were working?  Are those benefits not then earned?

sphinx wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:

I agree with you but oftentimes the people who are in poverty are infact both working and in receipt of benefits,tax credit etc. They can't make ends meet with their income alone because wages are so low.

This problem is the creation of the government,that people who work a full time job can no longer expect a  decent working wage.

Sorry but bollocks.

When you say they cant make ends meet you mean they cannot make the ends they want to have meet.  I am officially living in poverty and I know exactly what the sums are.  If someone working and getting tax credits cannot afford food because they are paying back the loan that let them go on holiday last summer then sorry that is not the governments fault for not giving them enough money it is their fault for borrowing money to go on holiday.  Replace going on holiday with whichever bill is taking the money.



If a person does not borrow anything then the benefits or wages and benefits are easily enough to cover food clothing and power/heating.  Not being able to afford stuff because of loan repayments falls into the area of personal responsibility not the government doesnt provide enough money.

Original Quill wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:

I think not.

Its 2014,not 1984.

That was my thought, exactly fluffy.

In fact, as long as we are getting so controlling, I would like to see an expense report from everybody earning over $250,000/year.  It is so important that we know where our economy is going these days, and it would be easy with computers and electronic tools such as the Internet.

The wealthy control some 99% of our wealth, so we are entitled to know where they are spending every last cent...especially overseas.  It's truly a matter of national security, as well.  Then we could pass laws that prohibit and/or incentivize certain kinds of spending, and direct the collective wealth of the nation down beneficial paths.

It's a dream I hope to see come true someday. ::D::

FluffyBunny wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Sorry but bollocks.

When you say they cant make ends meet you mean they cannot make the ends they want to have meet.  I am officially living in poverty and I know exactly what the sums are.  If someone working and getting tax credits cannot afford food because they are paying back the loan that let them go on holiday last summer then sorry that is not the governments fault for not giving them enough money it is their fault for borrowing money to go on holiday.  Replace going on holiday with whichever bill is taking the money.



If a person does not borrow anything then the benefits or wages and benefits are easily enough to cover food clothing and power/heating.  Not being able to afford stuff because of loan repayments falls into the area of personal responsibility not the government doesnt provide enough money.

Well bollo*cks right back to you   

There are people working on a pityful wage and they don't want to go on holiday or all the other imaginery fanciful pursuits you have decided they want to spend their money on in your mind. They simply want to be able to feed and clothe their children without struggle and have their dignity.

Working should allow them to do this. And wages are so low and the cost of childcare so high that they are not able.

Godisgoodallthetime wrote:

sphinx wrote:





What about when those benefits come from the 30 years of NI/tax paid by them when they were working?  Are those benefits not then earned?

that is a problem, VOD said that to me a while back...

until what they paid in was exhausted they would not be on the system...

BigAndy9 wrote:My question still stands for those on the left:


Why would a group of people on here on some days say people are starving and can't make ends meet, missing meals etc so the kids can have one.

And then on other days argue the toss over those same people having a beer and doing the leisure activities they want?

sphinx wrote:

FluffyBunny wrote:

Well bollo*cks right back to you   

There are people working on a pityful wage and they don't want to go on holiday or all the other imaginery fanciful pursuits you have decided they want to spend their money on in your mind. They simply want to be able to feed and clothe their children without struggle and have their dignity.

Working should allow them to do this. And wages are so low and the cost of childcare so high that they are not able.

Working does allow them to do this.  There are rules about minimum incomes.  If they were just feeding and clothing there would not be a struggle (please do not muddy the waters with childcare - if you cant afford childcare look after the child yourself - if that leaves you with less money than working and using childcare dont tell me you cannot afford childcare)

Please stop telling me that "there are people" when I am one of those people, have been one of those people, and/or spend large amounts of time with those people.

FluffyBunny wrote:

sphinx wrote:

Working does allow them to do this.  There are rules about minimum incomes.  If they were just feeding and clothing there would not be a struggle (please do not muddy the waters with childcare - if you cant afford childcare look after the child yourself - if that leaves you with less money than working and using childcare dont tell me you cannot afford childcare)

Please stop telling me that "there are people" when I am one of those people, have been one of those people, and/or spend large amounts of time with those people.

So the families working and having to go to food banks (possibly they are only both able to get part time work or a zero hours contract as there is as you know not much work at the moment) are lying?

Just because it's not your personal experience,it's wrong?

How very..interesting.