What is Reason?

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I am not surprised many young people are supporters of Labour. This is very easy to explain, where our school system for decades has been run by a majority of the left brainwashing the youth for the last couple of decades.

At least people are standing up to this brainwashing.

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:It's the one thing that tanks right along with the economy:



Note the dip during recessions. When the going gets rough, the right focus on themselves - that's practically the definition of being conservative.

Government-run health care is far less expensive and far less cruel than what we have here in America, where a TV series can be based on the premise of a high school teacher who turns to selling drugs because of how much it's going to cost to treat his cancer.

Let's all not forget that the main reason that "charitable giving" is so much higher overall in the USA comes down to the American gov't having one of the worst public welfare&health services in the developed world  --  because the American systems are so lousy, unfair and incompetent, American people know that they need to support those charities who take up the slack...

In many other "first world" countries -  such as New Zealand, Australia, France, Holland, Norway, Sweden, Canada, Britain, Singapore, Belgium  --  because the governments are expected to provide better healthcare and welfare services, overall donations to charities have tended to be lower than in America in recent years..

With so many Western governments introducing various "austerity measures" in the last 5 years or so  --  principally to finance corporate tax cuts to reward their political backers  --  it shouldn't surprise anyone if the public's generosity towards various charities is seen to be rising as government services are cut.

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:It's the one thing that tanks right along with the economy:



Note the dip during recessions. When the going gets rough, the right focus on themselves - that's practically the definition of being conservative.

Government-run health care is far less expensive and far less cruel than what we have here in America, where a TV series can be based on the premise of a high school teacher who turns to selling drugs because of how much it's going to cost to treat his cancer.

Let's all not forget that the main reason that "charitable giving" is so much higher overall in the USA comes down to the American gov't having one of the worst public welfare&health services in the developed world  --  because the American systems are so lousy, unfair and incompetent, American people know that they need to support those charities who take up the slack...

In many other "first world" countries -  such as New Zealand, Australia, France, Holland, Norway, Sweden, Canada, Britain, Singapore, Belgium  --  because the governments are expected to provide better healthcare and welfare services, overall donations to charities have tended to be lower than in America in recent years..

With so many Western governments introducing various "austerity measures" in the last 5 years or so  --  principally to finance corporate tax cuts to reward their political backers  --  it shouldn't surprise anyone if the public's generosity towards various charities is seen to be rising as government services are cut.

Really?

So you are saying people only give based on the health system?

How does that work to where they give money with foriegn aid?

Why is it you lefties costantly talk so much shit?

Seriously?

Even as seen where there is recessions, people still freely give to others and again they are more of people on the right than on the left

Go figure

The middle class lefty dispises the poor but hates the rich. They tend to be the most selfish people, as they only care for their beliefs being forced onto others. You will not find hardly any, opening their homes to the homeless and how they will in fact often walk by them, without giving a second thought. However religious charities often do help the homeless and they are by and large conservative minded people

Thor wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

This is such myth. If people changed their voting patterns en masse when married with kids then we'd never have a Labour government, yet the parties are usually pretty close in most elections. Some do as you say, of course, but a hell of lot do not. Georgraphy seems to far more of an indicator.

And Quill is absolutely right. What you're saying is that those who do change their views politically do become more selfish. Growing wanting to help the unfortunate, ensure everyone gets decent and free or affordable healtg care, gets at least a living wage etc... then switching to a point where their chief concerns are not paying too much tax and deciding who does and doesn't deserve help.

Horseshit, as again those politically right, more so religious, are more charitable.

Again where the left always get this wrong is through a warped and twisted view on how the right think differently on health care systems. It does not mean they care any less and is a constant perpetual lie often spread by the left

At no point in history, have we seen the right reverse free health care in Europe.

This is why now people are waking up to the bullshit you and Quill costantly spread

The sad part is because of these lies, they are shifting to far right

When will you learn that your attempts to polarize people through lies, based on political beliefs, ends up having the opposite effect?

This is the most ludicrous and ridiculous load of lying crap you have posted this week,  Dodge...

Your inherent economic ignorance and illiteracy shines through, every time you post up these lying bullshit right wing propaganda stories as uf they contain some truths..

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Thor wrote:

Horseshit, as again those politically right, more so religious, are more charitable.

Again where the left always get this wrong is through a warped and twisted view on how the right think differently on health care systems. It does not mean they care any less and is a constant perpetual lie often spread by the left

At no point in history, have we seen the right reverse free health care in Europe.

This is why now people are waking up to the bullshit you and Quill costantly spread

The sad part is because of these lies, they are shifting to far right

When will you learn that your attempts to polarize people through lies, based on political beliefs, ends up having the opposite effect?

This is the most ludicrous and ridiculous lying load of crap you have posted this week,  Dodge...

Is that why you cannot counter it?

I simple have come to a conclusion of late, that they left need to start actually being honest with themselves

They fail to skeptically look at their own beliefs and its very easy to prove

Raggamuffin wrote:

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:


A college education tends to correlate with higher income, a lack of education correlates strongly with lower income and quite strongly with conservatism.

Trump's strongest support comes from uneducated white men in the South. Educated white men from the South support Trump less.

Does that mean you agree or disagree with Quill?

Then there is the reference to "real cash".  This brings in the real motive of the right...self interest and acquisition of wealth.

Green from me Raggs...!


Most amusing!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:


A college education tends to correlate with higher income, a lack of education correlates strongly with lower income and quite strongly with conservatism.

Trump's strongest support comes from uneducated white men in the South. Educated white men from the South support Trump less.

Does that mean you agree or disagree with Quill?

Then there is the reference to "real cash".  This brings in the real motive of the right...self interest and acquisition of wealth.

Green from me Raggs...!


Most amusing!

You have to understand, there's two tiers to the right -- there are the rich fucks on top causing misery for 99 percent of the world, and there are the useful idiots like yourself very much on the bottom.

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Green from me Raggs...!


Most amusing!

You have to understand, there's two tiers to the right -- there are the rich fucks on top causing misery for 99 percent of the world, and there are the useful idiots like yourself very much on the bottom.

I really am astounded at the nonsense that you come out with

How are the rich causing misery to people, 99% of them?

Seriously?

Its simple a perception you have, and not a reality

I certainly do not feel any misery, because people have been very succesful in life. If people like yourself do, then that is down to being very bitter and even worse hateful

I suggest you learn to grow up, as the views you form against the rich are no better than the same hateful views, that Nazi's formed against the Jews. The same hateful views, that white supremacists created against Black people.

I mean for you to claim the majority of the world is miserable based on the wealth of others, is a complete absurdity

Stop blaming others, for why you might not feel good about yourself

History is littered with people constantly blaming others, for their own failures

This is really starting to fuck me right off, how the left claim to progessive in thinking, but as seen are as hateful and prejudiced as they claim the right to be.

I grew up with very little and loved every single moment of my childhood, even through the bad times, but at no point did I ever place blame onto the situation that I grew up in. On anyone else. As I grew up in a very strict but loving family.

The pathetic view, that somehow people are misreable, based on the wealthiest. Is nothing short of the worst immature hate possible. I suggest Ben get out in the real world and meet people and ask if they are even misreable, let alone whether they blame the rich, if they are in fact not happy.

I mean seriously, what the fuck is wrong with the majority of the left?

They have seriously lost their way

Raggamuffin wrote:

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:


A college education tends to correlate with higher income, a lack of education correlates strongly with lower income and quite strongly with conservatism.

Trump's strongest support comes from uneducated white men in the South. Educated white men from the South support Trump less.

Does that mean you agree or disagree with Quill?

Then there is the reference to "real cash".  This brings in the real motive of the right...self interest and acquisition of wealth.

You shouldn’t try to misuse my words like that.  My reference was to the metaphor of money and greed, which is a RW ideology, as distinct from a curative, or problem-solving attitude, which is the LW ideology.  My point was that HT brought in the ideology of the right to make her point.

What Ben is referring to are the two tiers of the right.  It was first noticed by John Stuart Mill, who said: "I never said that all conservatives are stupid; what I said was that all stupid people are conservative."  The non-stupid conservatives are the first tier, and the stupid ones are the second tier.

What Mill was articulating was that the right has a top, or elite strata, that is manipulative, and a lower, or subordinate level that constitutes the manipulated.  Trump would be of the elite, and he would be manipulating the subordinate strata, which are the uneducated that Ben speaks of.

We saw this with Charlottesville, where white supremacists (lower) were set loose, and Trump (top) indeed encouraged and praised them.  The top tier of the right seeks to manipulate the lower tier both for votes, and for political advantage.  Think of the Orcs in Lord of the Rings, and then think of Morgoth, the first Dark Lord, and Sauron…the two levels of the right. The left, of course, would be Aragorn, Gandolf, Arwen and the Hobbits.

Most of the stupid people here in UK are labour voters...

And...


Most of the labour voters are stupid...!

Eilzel wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Yeah, until they start earning real cash, having kids and getting responsibilities.  Then it all changes because they realise they and their families come first, not some idealistic crusade the herd run with.

Makes me laugh when you see these kids bleating on about how they didn't vote in the referendum because nobody told them about what it all entailed   They had months and months to do so.  It was only when the stink started they realised they suddenly want to be a part of it the revolution and should have got their lazy arses to the poll station.  Well, tough fucking titters.

This is such myth. If people changed their voting patterns en masse when married with kids then we'd never have a Labour government, yet the parties are usually pretty close in most elections. Some do as you say, of course, but a hell of lot do not. Georgraphy seems to far more of an indicator.

And Quill is absolutely right. What you're saying is that those who do change their views politically do become more selfish. Growing wanting to help the unfortunate, ensure everyone gets decent and free or affordable healtg care, gets at least a living wage etc... then switching to a point where their chief concerns are not paying too much tax and deciding who does and doesn't deserve help.

According to your logic, perhaps those who are concerned about taxes are concerned that nobody pays too much tax though, in which case they're not being selfish. Perhaps they're concerned that others aren't paying too much tax which is spent on those who can perfectly well look after themselves - ie, that it's spent on those who deserve help. That's not being selfish.

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Green from me Raggs...!


Most amusing!

You have to understand, there's two tiers to the right -- there are the rich fucks on top causing misery for 99 percent of the world, and there are the useful idiots like yourself very much on the bottom.

Ah, I see. In future, when you or Quill are talking about the "right", can you please make sure which tier you're referring to?

Thor wrote:

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:


You have to understand, there's two tiers to the right -- there are the rich fucks on top causing misery for 99 percent of the world, and there are the useful idiots like yourself very much on the bottom.

I really am astounded at the nonsense that you come out with

How are the rich causing misery to people, 99% of them?

Seriously?

Its simple a perception you have, and not a reality

I certainly do not feel any misery, because people have been very succesful in life. If people like yourself do, then that is down to being very bitter and even worse hateful

I suggest you learn to grow up, as the views you form against the rich are no better than the same hateful views, that Nazi's formed against the Jews. The same hateful views, that white supremacists created against Black people.

I mean for you to claim the majority of the world is miserable based on the wealth of others, is a complete absurdity

Stop blaming others, for why you might not feel good about yourself

History is littered with people constantly blaming others, for their own failures

Really now,  Dodge...

You really are choosing to be a supercilious and disingenuois dill,  these days...

Who do you think is responsible for most wars, pollution, deforrestation, poverty, labour exploitation, unaffordable housing, high energy costs, water wastage,  large scale human rights abuse, market manipulations ?

IF not the "rich" 0.1% who are pulling the strings..

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Thor wrote:

I really am astounded at the nonsense that you come out with

How are the rich causing misery to people, 99% of them?

Seriously?

Its simple a perception you have, and not a reality

I certainly do not feel any misery, because people have been very succesful in life. If people like yourself do, then that is down to being very bitter and even worse hateful

I suggest you learn to grow up, as the views you form against the rich are no better than the same hateful views, that Nazi's formed against the Jews. The same hateful views, that white supremacists created against Black people.

I mean for you to claim the majority of the world is miserable based on the wealth of others, is a complete absurdity

Stop blaming others, for why you might not feel good about yourself

History is littered with people constantly blaming others, for their own failures

Really now,  Dodge...

You really are choosing to be a supercilious and disingenuois dill,  these days...

Who do you think is responsible for most wars, pollution, deforrestation, poverty, labour exploitation, unaffordable housing, high energy costs, water wastage,  large scale human rights abuse, market manipulations ?

IF not the "rich" 0.1% who are pulling the strings..

Hitler -  Working class
Mao - From a peasant family
Stalin - working Class
Pol Pot - Middle Class

I can go on with many others based on war showing and proving you are inherantly wrong
What labour exploitation in the west and by who?


So who are all this rich people doing this?

Name all of them and show where they are doing as you claim

All those in the top rich list? The 0.01%, you need to dot the dots

In other words, you are trying make hating rich people acceptable and this is what is wrong the left, they are as prejudiced and hateful, as they claim the right to be

The reality is that it is Governements that do wrong by its people, not in the main the rich.

Raggamuffin wrote:

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:


You have to understand, there's two tiers to the right -- there are the rich fucks on top causing misery for 99 percent of the world, and there are the useful idiots like yourself very much on the bottom.

Ah, I see. In future, when you or Quill are talking about the "right", can you please make sure which tier you're referring to?

I think you are playing gotcha!, not trying to communicate.

Raggamuffin wrote:

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Green from me Raggs...!


Most amusing!

You have to understand, there's two tiers to the right -- there are the rich fucks on top causing misery for 99 percent of the world, and there are the useful idiots like yourself very much on the bottom.

Ah, I see. In future, when you or Quill are talking about the "right", can you please make sure which tier you're referring to?

I usually do, but in general, when I talk about conservative greed, I'm talking about the rich, and when I'm talking about conservative intolerance, I'm talking about the rest of them.

Most of the real big-money people on the right don't give a flip about race, religion, sexual orientation, etc., because none of that stuff matters and they're smart enough to understand that.

But they know they need voters and they know most people are stupid, so they back politicians like Trump to gain power.

Thor wrote:

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Thor wrote:

I really am astounded at the nonsense that you come out with

How are the rich causing misery to people, 99% of them?

Seriously?

Its simple a perception you have, and not a reality

I certainly do not feel any misery, because people have been very succesful in life. If people like yourself do, then that is down to being very bitter and even worse hateful

I suggest you learn to grow up, as the views you form against the rich are no better than the same hateful views, that Nazi's formed against the Jews. The same hateful views, that white supremacists created against Black people.

I mean for you to claim the majority of the world is miserable based on the wealth of others, is a complete absurdity

Stop blaming others, for why you might not feel good about yourself

History is littered with people constantly blaming others, for their own failures

Really now,  Dodge...

You really are choosing to be a supercilious and disingenuois dill,  these days...

Who do you think is responsible for most wars, pollution, deforrestation, poverty, labour exploitation, unaffordable housing, high energy costs, water wastage,  large scale human rights abuse, market manipulations ?

IF not the "rich" 0.1% who are pulling the strings..

Hitler -  Working class
Mao - From a peasant family
Stalin - working Class
Pol Pot - Middle Class

I can go on with many others based on war showing and proving you are inherantly wrong
What labour exploitation in the west and by who?


So who are all this rich people doing this?

Name all of them and show where they are doing as you claim

All those in the top rich list? The 0.01%, you need to dot the dots

In other words, you are trying make hating rich people acceptable and this is what is wrong the left, they are as prejudiced and hateful, as they claim the right to be

The reality is that it is Governements that do wrong by its people, not in the main the rich.

You're very talented at making exceptions look like the rule, you know?

We're talking about the reason Foxconn factories have suicide nets on the outer walls, why GM lays off 14,000 workers when it's still making a profit, why celebrities get in trouble for endorsing a brand of clothing that turns out to be made by child labor.

You pick the bad guys out of history books as though you're reading a comic book. You need to look deeper.

Ben wrote:You pick the bad guys out of history books as though you're reading a comic book. You need to look deeper.

Didge is a collector, not a thinker.  He relies upon the facile, clichéd associations because to penetrate deeper would require some original thought.  He still believes that socialism is marxism, and the Stalinism was communism.

To ask him, as did Wolf, to see through the fog of banality, is a reach too far for him.

*~[THE Ben Reilly]~* wrote:

Thor wrote:

Hitler -  Working class
Mao - From a peasant family
Stalin - working Class
Pol Pot - Middle Class

I can go on with many others based on war showing and proving you are inherantly wrong
What labour exploitation in the west and by who?


So who are all this rich people doing this?

Name all of them and show where they are doing as you claim

All those in the top rich list? The 0.01%, you need to dot the dots

In other words, you are trying make hating rich people acceptable and this is what is wrong the left, they are as prejudiced and hateful, as they claim the right to be

The reality is that it is Governements that do wrong by its people, not in the main the rich.

You're very talented at making exceptions look like the rule, you know?

We're talking about the reason Foxconn factories have suicide nets on the outer walls, why GM lays off 14,000 workers when it's still making a profit, why celebrities get in trouble for endorsing a brand of clothing that turns out to be made by child labor.

You pick the bad guys out of history books as though you're reading a comic book. You need to look deeper.

So you cannot thus back this up with any tangible evidence

So do you think GM would be making a profit, by not making that many people redundent? Based on the fact sales are down?

You simple want to continue down a path of hate. Failing to understand that Governements set policies and laws around employment

Hence your claims are emphatically absurd and how you have then clubbed together the 0.01% based on General Motors. Hence guilt by association of wealth.

Its beyond doubt, the dumbest argument you have presented

I can post up many leaders in history that have started wars and not many of them have been rich. Many come from humble backgrounds

Now considering I actually know far more than you on history, maybe its best you start taking some good advice, because your hate as seen is baseless, and stems from complete bitterness. Hence you are trying to make hating a group of people acceptable, based upon lies.

Frankly that is pathetic and childish