Should The English Be Included In UK Break-Up Vote?

First topic message reminder :

13th February 2014

UK break-up vote is happening in Scotland this year.

You know the question, now get discussing.

 :D

victorismyhero wrote:\if scotland votes for independance, then I'm "claiming on my tartan"...and emigrating north....

Great stuff Victor, and folk like you and Sassy would be most welcome  :D

Och aye the noo!  

The Scots get more per capita? Probably because most of the jobs go to the south east of England perhaps? Scotland has hydro power and I believe could be fairly self sufficient. It had industry that more than paid its way but like other regions the jobs have gone and no one in the supposed UK government actually does anything at all about getting real jobs anywhere back.
Wouldn't it be a better idea than breaking up the Uk to have a more federal system, so that English regions can have a say along with the other regions in Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland and not have the numbers to ignore the rest of us. We are better together.

Vintage wrote:The Scots get more per capita? Probably because most of the jobs go to the south east of England perhaps? Scotland has hydro power and I believe could be fairly self sufficient. It had industry that more than paid its way but like other regions the jobs have gone and no one in the supposed UK government actually does anything at all about getting real jobs anywhere back.
Wouldn't it be a better idea than breaking up the Uk to have a more federal system, so that English regions can have a say along with the other regions in Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland and not have the numbers to ignore the rest of us. We are better together.

There's some decent stuff in there Vintage with relevant points relating to more decisions being taken at a regional level but still within a UK framework. There's a lot to think about before this vote takes place but whatever the outcome I seriously doubt that the relationship between the Scots and the rest of the country at ground level will be any less British than it is now. I know my views towards the English, the Welsh and the Irish will always be one of respect and tolerance to those who would continue to see us in the same way.

Irn Bru wrote:

Vintage wrote:The Scots get more per capita? Probably because most of the jobs go to the south east of England perhaps? Scotland has hydro power and I believe could be fairly self sufficient. It had industry that more than paid its way but like other regions the jobs have gone and no one in the supposed UK government actually does anything at all about getting real jobs anywhere back.
Wouldn't it be a better idea than breaking up the Uk to have a more federal system, so that English regions can have a say along with the other regions in Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland and not have the numbers to ignore the rest of us. We are better together.

There's some decent stuff in there Vintage with relevant points relating to more decisions being taken at a regional level but still within a UK framework. There's a lot to think about before this vote takes place but whatever the outcome I seriously doubt that the relationship between the Scots and the rest of the country at ground level will be any less British than it is now. I know my views towards the English, the Welsh and the Irish will always be one of respect and tolerance to those who would continue to see us in the same way.

..I agree, a good logical post by Vintage. :D 

Joy Division wrote:

victorismyhero wrote:\if scotland votes for independance, then I'm "claiming on my tartan"...and emigrating north....

Great stuff Victor, and folk like you and Sassy would be most welcome  :D

Och aye the noo!  

Well I'm hoping some time soon I can get to OH's birthplace, which I keep saying is in the glens outside Aberdeen, and he keeps raising his eye's and saying 'outside Inverness'!!!!!!! For five years now I have muddled the two up and I have no idea why.

Joy Division wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

There's some decent stuff in there Vintage with relevant points relating to more decisions being taken at a regional level but still within a UK framework. There's a lot to think about before this vote takes place but whatever the outcome I seriously doubt that the relationship between the Scots and the rest of the country at ground level will be any less British than it is now. I know my views towards the English, the Welsh and the Irish will always be one of respect and tolerance to those who would continue to see us in the same way.

..I agree, a good logical post by Vintage. :D 

Hi JD,

The three main parties have now said that in the event of devolution, Scotland won't be able to keep sterling.

Do you think that it might influence the vote?

Catman wrote:

Joy Division wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

There's some decent stuff in there Vintage with relevant points relating to more decisions being taken at a regional level but still within a UK framework. There's a lot to think about before this vote takes place but whatever the outcome I seriously doubt that the relationship between the Scots and the rest of the country at ground level will be any less British than it is now. I know my views towards the English, the Welsh and the Irish will always be one of respect and tolerance to those who would continue to see us in the same way.

..I agree, a good logical post by Vintage. :D 

Hi JD,

The three main parties have now said that in the event of devolution, Scotland won't be able to keep sterling.

Do you think that it might influence the vote?

Well in that case we'll just use Baw Bees or shop at Poundland..

It's something they are trying to use to frighten Scotland into not voting for independence. Pretty stupid and unworkable. Can you imagine if you had to change currencies at the border and you lived in England worked in Scotland!

Irn Bru wrote:

Catman wrote:

Hi JD,

The three main parties have now said that in the event of devolution, Scotland won't be able to keep sterling.

Do you think that it might influence the vote?

Well in that case we'll just use Baw Bees or shop at Poundland..

Would Scotland have to join the Euro then, or do you think that they would introduce a new currency?

Catman wrote:

Joy Division wrote:



..I agree, a good logical post by Vintage. :D 

Hi JD,

The three main parties have now said that in the event of devolution, Scotland won't be able to keep sterling.

Do you think that it might influence the vote?

..hey Phil..I truly believe what Sassy says in that it's a scare tactic, if that did happen it would present too many complications as sassy said, but then again, there are already many places in England who won't accept Scots notes!  

But I think it's quite a sad threat all three parties saying that, pfft!

Sassy wrote:It's something they are trying to use to frighten Scotland into not voting for independence.   Pretty stupid and unworkable.   Can you imagine if you had to change currencies at the border and you lived in England worked in Scotland!

I couldn't see a problem with Scotland keeping the pound tbf....But the Libs and Labour, now saying that they would vote with the Tories to block!   

Joy Division wrote:

Catman wrote:

Hi JD,

The three main parties have now said that in the event of devolution, Scotland won't be able to keep sterling.

Do you think that it might influence the vote?

..hey Phil..I truly believe what Sassy says in that it's a scare tactic, if that did happen it would present too many complications as sassy said, but then again, there are already many places in England who won't accept Scots notes!  

But  I think it's quite a sad threat  all three parties saying that, pfft!

It's a pretty universal statement though JD, i don't think that they would all make that statement unless they were willing to carry the threat through.

I know that Alex Salmond has accused the parties of bullying tactics, what do you think?

Catman wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Catman wrote:

Hi JD,

The three main parties have now said that in the event of devolution, Scotland won't be able to keep sterling.

Do you think that it might influence the vote?

Well in that case we'll just use Baw Bees or shop at Poundland..

Would Scotland have to join the Euro then, or do you think that they would introduce a new currency?

I honestly don't know Phil but as far as Sterling is concerned I would say that where there is a will there is a way and if Scotland votes yes then I would expect the Westminster government not to stand in the way or put up barriers against the people of Scotland achieving what they voted for

Catman wrote:

Sassy wrote:It's something they are trying to use to frighten Scotland into not voting for independence.   Pretty stupid and unworkable.   Can you imagine if you had to change currencies at the border and you lived in England worked in Scotland!

I couldn't see a problem with Scotland keeping the pound tbf....But the Libs and Labour, now saying that they would vote with the Tories to block!   

Yep, they are all resorting to scare tactics. Well, Scotland puts the revenue per capita up, so they don't want it to leave. I think we would all be better together, but that's for the Scots to decided, and if they did leave I wouldn't blame them.

Catman wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


..hey Phil..I truly believe what Sassy says in that it's a scare tactic, if that did happen it would present too many complications as sassy said, but then again, there are already many places in England who won't accept Scots notes!  

But  I think it's quite a sad threat  all three parties saying that, pfft!

It's a pretty universal statement though JD, i don't think that they would all make that statement unless they were willing to carry the threat through.

I know that Alex Salmond has accused the parties of bullying tactics, what do you think?

...I think it is bullying tbh Phil, we have always know Labour have been against Scottish independence,mim actually not surprised by this at all.

I'm sure that if independence did happen , then something would be sorted out or the sterling kept as to is now, it would make no sense to do away with it, as our countries are neighbours!

It's just the three other parties pulling out all the stops in an attempt hinder independence...


I wish to stay as we are, but not under another RW government.

Sassy wrote:

Catman wrote:

I couldn't see a problem with Scotland keeping the pound tbf....But the Libs and Labour, now saying that they would vote with the Tories to block!   

Yep, they are all resorting to scare tactics.  Well, Scotland puts the revenue per capita up, so they don't want it to leave.  I think we would all be better together, but that's for the Scots to decided, and if they did leave I wouldn't blame them.

Nor me tbf Sassy.   

Joy Division wrote:

Catman wrote:

It's a pretty universal statement though JD, i don't think that they would all make that statement unless they were willing to carry the threat through.

I know that Alex Salmond has accused the parties of bullying tactics, what do you think?

...I think it is bullying tbh Phil, we have always know Labour have been against Scottish independence,mim actually not surprised by this at all.

I'm sure that if independence did happen , then something would be sorted out or the sterling kept as to is now, it would make no sense to do away with it, as our countries are neighbours!

It's just the three other parties pulling out all the stops in an attempt hinder independence...


I wish to stay as we are, but  not under another RW government.

It would be a very sad day for the UK, if Scotland left the union JD.

...Please don't leave us, to the nightmare situation of endless Tory governments!

Pretty please!

  :D 

The UK should stay together and demand independence from the EU.


This whole thing is designed to break up the UK for easier EU takeover.


United we stand!!!

Divided we fall!!!

And as the current UK politicians and Alex Salmond are really all pro EU, they are of course trying to create these arguments and divisions to engineer exactly this objective!


Bit by bit, by hook or by crook, mission creep of the EU dictatorship in full effect!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:The UK should stay together and demand independence from the EU.


This whole thing is designed to break up the UK for easier EU takeover.


United we stand!!!

Divided we fall!!!

If there is ever a referendum on EU membership and the result is to leave then the country will leave whether it is the UK as it stands now or a UK without Scotland as part of it.

Alex Salmond responds angrily to Osborne's rejection of currency union
No deal on sterling will mean no deal on national debt, Scottish first minister says, as all three pro-union parties back chancellor

Alex Salmond has renewed his threat that Scotland could refuse to pay its share of the UK's debt as he bitterly attacked George Osborne's decision to veto any currency union after independence.

Speaking in Edinburgh on Thursday, the chancellor said he had been officially advised by senior Treasury civil servants that a sterling zone between the UK and an independent Scotland would be unworkable, unstable and damaging to both countries.

Bolstered by the shadow chancellor, Ed Balls, and Danny Alexander, the Liberal Democrat chief secretary to the Treasury, Osborne said: "People need to know it's not going to happen."

After studying civil service analysis on the risks and complications involved in such a deal, Osborne said: "It is clear to me: I could not as chancellor recommend that we could share the pound with an independent Scotland."

Salmond, Scotland's first minister, retaliated by accusing the chancellor of "bluff, bluster and posturing" and insisting that a currency pact was "overwhelmingly" in the interests of both countries.

Facing the most focused and significant challenge so far to his plans for independence, Salmond described the joint attack from the UK parties as "a concerted bid by a Tory-led Westminster establishment to bully and intimidate".

Ignoring Osborne's jibe that to threaten a debt default was like threatening "to burn my own house down in protest", Salmond warned that if there was no deal on sterling, there would be no deal on Scotland paying its share of the £1.6tn of national debt expected by 2016. Initially turning down bids for television interviews, he issued a statement saying that if the UK did refuse to set up a new sterling zone, it would harm UK businesses and would leave the UK government having to pick up the entirety of UK debt.


https://newsfix.niceboard.com/t2482-alex-salmond-bites-back

So a Scotland that has voted for independence will also be independent from EU too?


Or is it more a chip off the UK and straight into the full clutch of the EU?


So no real independence at all????


And also forced to have the EURO!!!!!!!!




THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING GUYS!!!!!!!!!


THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!


LIB LAB CON ALL DENYING THE POUND, SO WHERE DO THEY GO????


SALMOND IS A SNAKE, HE IS SELLING US OUT TO THE EU, WITH THE AID OF THE REST OF THE LIB LAB CON PRO EU SHIT BAGS!!!!!


WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER AS THE UK AND COLLECTIVELY STICK 2 FINGERS UP TO THE EU!!!!!!

BigAndy9 wrote:There's no doubt that England would have voted for them to f off.

I think they know the score about money - Shell are about to tell them to f off.

They take more from the English tax payer in housing benefit than they make from the English oil.

Such a shame they're gonna stay British.

I don't think we would be better off without Scotland, I don't think us English would vote for Scotland to fuck off, I think that us English realise the importance of Britain and being British, it's what makes us unique, an Island community, multiracial and faceted at every level, united by the crown, and united we punch well above our weight.

Tommy Monk wrote:So a Scotland that has voted for independence will also be independent from EU too?


Or is it more a chip off the UK and straight into the full clutch of the EU?


So no real independence at all????


And also forced to have the EURO!!!!!!!!




THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING GUYS!!!!!!!!!


THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!


LIB LAB CON ALL DENYING THE POUND, SO WHERE DO THEY GO????


SALMOND IS A SNAKE, HE IS SELLING US OUT TO THE EU, WITH THE AID OF THE REST OF THE LIB LAB CON PRO EU SHIT BAGS!!!!!


WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER AS THE UK AND COLLECTIVELY STICK 2 FINGERS UP TO THE EU!!!!!!

We're already in the clutch of the EU and where do you get the idea that we would be forced to join the Euro?

I keep reading from the rabid little Englanders that Scotland is just a drain on England so surely England will manage quite well without the Scots.

scrat wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:There's no doubt that England would have voted for them to f off.

I think they know the score about money - Shell are about to tell them to f off.

They take more from the English tax payer in housing benefit than they make from the English oil.

Such a shame they're gonna stay British.

I don't think we would be better off without Scotland, I don't think us English would vote for Scotland to fuck off, I think that us English realise the importance of Britain and being British, it's what makes us unique, an Island community, multiracial and faceted at every level, united by the crown, and united we punch well above our weight.

I think you are right on all that and the Scots will probably vote to stay in the UK anyway. I'll be quite happy to accept that result but the nonsense that keeps getting pumped out from Westminster and some sections of the media about the Scots being subsidy junkies is more likely to produce a yes vote.

Irn Bru wrote:

scrat wrote:
I don't think we would be better off without Scotland, I don't think us English would vote for Scotland to fuck off, I think that us English realise the importance of Britain and being British, it's what makes us unique, an Island community, multiracial and faceted at every level, united by the crown, and united we punch well above our weight.

I think you are right on all that and the Scots will probably vote to stay in the UK anyway. I'll be quite happy to accept that result but the nonsense that keeps getting pumped out from Westminster and some sections of the media about the Scots being subsidy junkies is more likely to produce a yes vote.

Events are conspiring and we're still 8 months away, it is the union that holds us all together, Scotland has paid more than its fair share in oil and blood, if a yes vote is recorded, I think the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will go into shock!,,,and we will witness a rapid decline into Anarchy.

Irn Bru wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:So a Scotland that has voted for independence will also be independent from EU too?
Or is it more a chip off the UK and straight into the full clutch of the EU?
So no real independence at all????
And also forced to have the EURO!!!!!!!!
THAT IS WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING GUYS!!!!!!!!!
THINK ABOUT IT!!!!!
LIB LAB CON ALL DENYING THE POUND, SO WHERE DO THEY GO????
SALMOND IS A SNAKE, HE IS SELLING US OUT TO THE EU, WITH THE AID OF THE REST OF THE LIB LAB CON PRO EU SHIT BAGS!!!!!
WE NEED TO STICK TOGETHER AS THE UK AND COLLECTIVELY STICK 2 FINGERS UP TO THE EU!!!!!!

We're already in the clutch of the EU and where do you get the idea that we would be forced to join the Euro?
I keep reading from the rabid little Englanders that Scotland is just a drain on England so surely England will manage quite well without the Scots.

So you already admit defeat to EU? As we are already in their clutches?
And if Scotland can't have the pound, then what do you think will be their first currency of choice??? It will be the EURO of course!!!!!
So where will that independence be that you were hoping for and promised by the snake Salmond????
You will be launched straight 'from the frying pan and into the fire', to coin a phrase!
You need to forget about the current shower of lib lab con politicians (who are all pro EU by the way, including Salmond, although he won't admit it), and look past that and think of the bigger picture.
Think about what makes us great!!!
And that is all of us as a United Kingdom!!!
I repeat. United we stand and divided we fall!
And all the current (pro EU) politicians are working to divide us so we completely fall to the EU!!!
The UK is not broken and we don't need to fix it. We are the greatest nation in the world, past, present and hopefully to remain so in the future, as the united and formidable force we are together!

Oh God, he'll start singing Rule Britannia and wave a little flag next.

scrat wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:There's no doubt that England would have voted for them to f off.
I think they know the score about money - Shell are about to tell them to f off.
They take more from the English tax payer in housing benefit than they make from the English oil.
Such a shame they're gonna stay British.

I don't think we would be better off without Scotland, I don't think us English would vote for Scotland to fuck off, I think that us English realise the importance of Britain and being British, it's what makes us unique, an Island community, multiracial and faceted at every level, united by the crown, and united we punch well above our weight.

Well said!


The problem is that the UK Westminster government is seen by Scots/Welsh/NI as being more 'English', but they don't realise that the English are mostly just as unhappy with the UK government/politicians as they are!!!


And the sooner that everyone realises that they are not working for us, but working for the EU, the better!!!


Where is the democracy when the only choices you have are all the same and all pro EU????


That is where we are at people!

Sassy wrote:Oh God, he'll start singing Rule Britannia and wave a little flag next.

And what flag are you waving...???

Irn Bru wrote:

scrat wrote:
I don't think we would be better off without Scotland, I don't think us English would vote for Scotland to fuck off, I think that us English realise the importance of Britain and being British, it's what makes us unique, an Island community, multiracial and faceted at every level, united by the crown, and united we punch well above our weight.

I think you are right on all that and the Scots will probably vote to stay in the UK anyway. I'll be quite happy to accept that result but the nonsense that keeps getting pumped out from Westminster and some sections of the media about the Scots being subsidy junkies is more likely to produce a yes vote.

That is exactly why it is being pumped out!

Tommy Monk wrote:Think about what makes us great!!!
And that is all of us as a United Kingdom!!!
I repeat. United we stand and divided we fall!
And all the current (pro EU) politicians are working to divide us so we completely fall to the EU!!!
The UK is not broken and we don't need to fix it. We are the greatest nation in the world, past, present and hopefully to remain so in the future, as the united and formidable force we are together!

Ahem...spoken like a good Anglander. The "greatest nation" has a past that just might just catch up with 'em. It will be interesting.

Only the Scots could pull this off. Only the Scots do it right. Btw, what do you think will happen with N. Ireland, and then Wales, when the Scots are gone? It's very much like the Canadian situation. The accord of 1868 was merely a bargain...Britain promised the Western provinces markets and a railroad in exchange for nationhood . When Quebec threatened to break away, British Columbia, Saskatchewan and Alberta said 'Fine, we'll go our separate way as well.' It got close...and it could happen again.

scrat wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:There's no doubt that England would have voted for them to f off.

I think they know the score about money - Shell are about to tell them to f off.

They take more from the English tax payer in housing benefit than they make from the English oil.

Such a shame they're gonna stay British.

I don't think we would be better off without Scotland, I don't think us English would vote for Scotland to fuck off, I think that us English realise the importance of Britain and being British, it's what makes us unique, an Island community, multiracial and faceted at every level, united by the crown, and united we punch well above our weight.

I agree Scrat, well said

FGS with everything that is happening in the world at the moment you'd have thought we could at least remain united   Sometimes I think we're our own worst enemies, not content with fighting others we have to fight each other.