Should The English Be Included In UK Break-Up Vote?

13th February 2014

UK break-up vote is happening in Scotland this year.

You know the question, now get discussing.

 :D

Yes they should but you know the problem. We are the only nation in the UK who aren't given a say with regard to their own affairs. Labour made sure when it gave devolution to Wales and Scotland that England wasn't hardly fair I know but hey it didn't suit them.
It seems 5 million Scots think they are better than the UK or more precisely a proportion of 5 million. Just as well we haven't got a say we might have said farewell.

The truth is the SNP haven't a chance this recent issue over the currency will scupper them. The risks for an isolated Scotland are huge. It will take an awful lot of anti English rhetoric to overcome that.

There's no doubt that England would have voted for them to f off.

I think they know the score about money - Shell are about to tell them to f off.

They take more from the English tax payer in housing benefit than they make from the English oil.

Such a shame they're gonna stay British.

BigAndy9 wrote:There's no doubt that England would have voted for them to f off.

I think they know the score about money - Shell are about to tell them to f off.

They take more from the English tax payer in housing benefit than they make from the English oil.

Such a shame they're gonna stay British.

What English oil?, take more in HB and benefits than Scots oil revenue generates?  

You have held Scotland prisoner long enough and if Scotland does decide to fcuk off then you will know soon enough.

Joy Division wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:There's no doubt that England would have voted for them to f off.

I think they know the score about money - Shell are about to tell them to f off.

They take more from the English tax payer in housing benefit than they make from the English oil.

Such a shame they're gonna stay British.

What English oil?, take more in HB and benefits than Scots oil revenue generates?  

You have held Scotland prisoner long enough and if Scotland does decide to fcuk off then you will know soon enough.

They won't vote to f off though - that's the problem.

A no vote is a request for more help.

 

AND then what would you people do if the majority of English voters subsequently elected to leave the U.K. ?!?

THAT would be 'a proper turn-up for the books', wouldn't it !?!

  

labour revival wrote:Yes they should but you know the problem. We are the only nation in the UK who aren't given a say with regard to their own affairs. Labour made sure when it gave devolution to Wales and Scotland that England wasn't hardly fair I know but hey it didn't suit them.
It seems 5 million Scots think they are better than the UK or more precisely a proportion of 5 million. Just as well we haven't got a say we might have said farewell.

The truth is the SNP haven't a chance this recent issue over the currency will scupper them. The risks for an isolated Scotland are huge. It will take an awful lot of anti English rhetoric to overcome that.

The Scots ain't stopping ya LR, leave of you so desire,,,take it up with your PM.

Incidentally it's Some Scots who want to break away from England, not the other way about, as Scotland has  has been held prisoner by England from a union agreement 300 years ago...

And not all 5 million Scots want to break away.

I wouldn't listen to Andy, he fucking hates Scots, Muslims, blacks, immigrants, benefit claimants and disabled folk,

And Andy,you should be thanking the Scots for our oil revenues that your past and present Tory governments used, abused and squandered.

We fed you mate, and this is how you repay us?

Benefits and HB for Scots pale severely in comparison to Scotland's north sea oil revenues.

What a joker you are Andy.

Tory arsehole.  

Bey you've got Tory hands an an accent to match Andy eh?!!  

BigAndy9 wrote:

Joy Division wrote:

What English oil?, take more in HB and benefits than Scots oil revenue generates?  

You have held Scotland prisoner long enough and if Scotland does decide to fcuk off then you will know soon enough.

They won't vote to f off though - that's the problem.

A no vote is a request for more help.

I've never really been one for leaving the UK, but the more anti Scots comments I see, as well as the thought of possibly having another Tory government , the more I'm swaying towards voting to leave...

Just wish we had control of our North Sea oil revenues years back, but you Tories squandered that, horse has bolted kind of thing.

The spending per capita on Scots is far greater than on the English. Have yo heard of the Barnett formula JD.

That oil was found off the shore of Scotland was a lucky break for Scotland without that you really would have been leeches on the UK.

Now that reserves are dwindling by the way it makes independence even more unlikely.

I think also btw the Scots have issues with the English not the other way around.

I wonder had the oil been of the English coast whether the SNP would have existed?

labour revival wrote:The spending per capita on Scots is far greater than on the English. Have yo heard of the Barnett formula JD.

That oil was found off the shore of Scotland was a lucky break for Scotland without that you really would have been leeches on the UK.

Now that reserves are dwindling by the way it makes independence even more unlikely.

I think also btw the Scots have issues with the English not the other way around.

I've heard of it LR, and your quite right about the oil stocks running very low.

I would say both have an issue with each other, but in truth,started by the English by trying to take over Scotland years ago and the murders of Scots in masses as well as rapes etc...

Scotland had no choice but to defend themselves when they could or live oppressed and bullied as the English have far greater numbers.

labour revival wrote:I wonder had the oil been of the English coast whether the SNP would have existed?

Ah it's not about the oil for the SNP LR,they were sick of Scotland's treatment from Westminster.

labour revival wrote:The spending per capita on Scots is far greater than on the English. Have yo heard of the Barnett formula JD.

That oil was found off the shore of Scotland was a lucky break for Scotland without that you really would have been leeches on the UK.

Now that reserves are dwindling by the way it makes independence even more unlikely.

I think also btw the Scots have issues with the English not the other way around.

We must remember LR, that the population of England is at least ten times that of Scotland, many often overlook this.

Per capita means per head. It is irrelevant how many people its the amount per head.

labour revival wrote:Per capita means per head. It is irrelevant how many people its the amount per head.

How is that irrelevant when the population difference is so huge ?

Scotland puts in as much as it gets out does it not?

Joy Division wrote:

labour revival wrote:Per capita means per head. It is irrelevant how many people its the amount per head.

How is that irrelevant when the population difference is so huge ?

Scotland puts in as much as it gets out does it not?

You're dead right JD. Scotland contributes more in taxation than it gets back. And look at all that public money that goes towards projects like Crossrail, HS2 and the money now being spent on the rescue operation and flood defences in England. Some of that money comes from Scotland but we don't grudge ir indeed we're happy to help out our neighbours just as we did back in 1940 when they were happy to see Scots soldiers lining up to hold the line in Northern France whist Dunkirk was being evacuated.
This public spending comparison is a red herring because in fiscal terms on public spending Scotland is just a region like London and the North East etc. and when you look at it like that then London has the highest spending per capita and there a few more million of them than there is of us.
As far as I'm concerned they can keep their money; we'll keep our dignity.

Irn Bru wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


How is that irrelevant when the population difference is so huge ?

Scotland puts in as much as it gets out does it not?

You're dead right JD. Scotland contributes more in taxation than it gets back. And look at all that public money that goes towards projects like Crossrail, HS2 and the money now being spent on the rescue operation and flood defences in England. Some of that money comes from Scotland but we don't grudge ir indeed we're happy to help out our neighbours just as we did back in 1940 when they were happy to see Scots soldiers lining up to hold the line in Northern France whist Dunkirk was being evacuated.
This public spending comparison is a red herring because in fiscal terms on public spending Scotland is just a region like London and the North East etc. and when you look at it like that then London has the highest spending per capita and there a few more million of them than there is of us.
As far as I'm concerned they can keep their money; we'll keep our dignity.

Aye, Irn, I just  did not think it was that clean and cut as LR had said, and our population is minute in comparison with England...

Indeed many Scots soldiers as well as English in France and of course in Iraq and Afghanistan..

And of course, just like you Irn, I do not grudge our contributions going toward the flood rescue effort either.

Some are very selective in what they say , as well as creating a hostility on here between Scots and  English...I found myself going into defensive mode earlier

  

But you said  that well Irn,we will keep our dignity.  :D

Irn Bru you are wrong full stop and very deluded I might add. Without Oil you would be miles behind. Millions of miles.

A chance geological happenstance that is all that's saves your ungracious faces.

Do you deny that oil is the only thing holding your end up?

labour revival wrote:Irn Bru you are wrong full stop and very deluded I might add. Without Oil you would be miles behind. Millions of miles.

A chance geological happenstance that is all that's saves your ungracious faces.

Ungracious faces?...can you tell us why that is?..and what makes England apparently so much better than Scotland?  

Honestly attitudes like that...the ' we are the best nation in the world' make others dislike you so much!! Such arrogance, ignorance , rudeness and delusion put many folk off that kind of attitude, thank goodness not all English folk share your view Drinky!

Drinky banging on about the same things again.

Joy Division wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

They won't vote to f off though - that's the problem.

A no vote is a request for more help.

I've never really been one for leaving the UK, but the more anti Scots comments I see, as well as the thought of possibly having another Tory government , the more I'm swaying towards voting to leave...

Just wish we had control of our North Sea oil revenues years back, but you Tories squandered that, horse has bolted kind of thing.

If the English benefitted from Scottish oil, the Scots have more than been paid back. Free prescriptions... free university education... welfare benefits.... Scots have a say in Parlaiament about English affairs, yet the English have no say in Scottish affairs. I'm pretty damn sure that if the English were included in the referendum for the break-up of the Union they'd vote yes. Added to that's the benefit that, if the Scots say goodbye, Labour're pretty much stuffed or winning future elections.

Sassy wrote:Drinky banging on about the same things again.

Honestly Sassy,it's like speaking to a bairn who is hell bent on winning a competition!!!

The ' them and us'!!..well I see that a s far as the RW go though!!

The spoon fed born into money rich and the low paid hard grafters treated like shit.

Tess. wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


I've never really been one for leaving the UK, but the more anti Scots comments I see, as well as the thought of possibly having another Tory government , the more I'm swaying towards voting to leave...

Just wish we had control of our North Sea oil revenues years back, but you Tories squandered that, horse has bolted kind of thing.

If the English benefitted from Scottish oil, the Scots have more than been paid back.  Free prescriptions... free university education... welfare benefits.... Scots have a say in Parlaiament about English affairs, yet the English have no say in Scottish affairs.  I'm pretty damn sure that if the English were included in the referendum for the break-up of the Union they'd vote yes.  Added to that's the benefit that, if the Scots say goodbye, Labour're pretty much stuffed or winning future elections.

You're so right on everything, as usual Tess.

The English will not vote because they will vote the wrong way.

The English will not vote on Europe because we would vote the wrong way.

Such a perverse country.

Tess. wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


I've never really been one for leaving the UK, but the more anti Scots comments I see, as well as the thought of possibly having another Tory government , the more I'm swaying towards voting to leave...

Just wish we had control of our North Sea oil revenues years back, but you Tories squandered that, horse has bolted kind of thing.

If the English benefitted from Scottish oil, the Scots have more than been paid back.  Free prescriptions... free university education... welfare benefits.... Scots have a say in Parlaiament about English affairs, yet the English have no say in Scottish affairs.  I'm pretty damn sure that if the English were included in the referendum for the break-up of the Union they'd vote yes.  Added to that's the benefit that, if the Scots say goodbye, Labour're pretty much stuffed or winning future elections.

Can you tell me who funds those free prescriptions Tess? Westminster has run Scotland for years and years, surely if some Scots want to leave the UK , that should be their choice?

Scotland has never forced any other home nation to be part of the UK, Westminster controls , dictates and calls the shote on the entire UK...although we do have our own parliament, it does not control welfare, defence or other such things.

All uk nations get benefits, England too, so why should Scotland not?, Scotland pays more than it's fair share, so what is the hang up about Scotland then?

As Irn said, Scots money is used for things going on down south, but we don't feel the need to scream it from the rooftops.

It's quite easy to say the things you do when you do not live in the UK.

labour revival wrote:Irn Bru you are wrong full stop and very deluded I might add. Without Oil you would be miles behind. Millions of miles.

A chance geological happenstance that is all that's saves your ungracious faces.

Do you deny that oil is the only thing holding your end up?

But for the Tories ravaging Scotland the oil wouldn't have been so significant as it is today. But it was squandered by Westminster paying out huge sums on unemployment benefit and just running the country and putting nothing aside for the future as Norway has done.
And Scottish Nationalists were around long before the oil was being pumped ashore so whether there was oil or not some Scots just want to run their own affairs.
What's wrong with that?

Tess. wrote:

Joy Division wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

They won't vote to f off though - that's the problem.

A no vote is a request for more help.

I've never really been one for leaving the UK, but the more anti Scots comments I see, as well as the thought of possibly having another Tory government , the more I'm swaying towards voting to leave...

Just wish we had control of our North Sea oil revenues years back, but you Tories squandered that, horse has bolted kind of thing.

If the English benefitted from Scottish oil, the Scots have more than been paid back.  Free prescriptions... free university education... welfare benefits.... Scots have a say in Parlaiament about English affairs, yet the English have no say in Scottish affairs.  I'm pretty damn sure that if the English were included in the referendum for the break-up of the Union they'd vote yes.  Added to that's the benefit that, if the Scots say goodbye, Labour're pretty much stuffed or winning future elections.

The free precriptions and tuition fees come out of the block grant that Westminster allows us to have. If we choose to spend it on looking after the health of of the people and educating our children then that's what we'll do. We could spend it on other things but we don't. I think we have our priorities in the right place,,,,,,don't you?

BigAndy9 wrote:

Tess. wrote:
If the English benefitted from Scottish oil, the Scots have more than been paid back.  Free prescriptions... free university education... welfare benefits.... Scots have a say in Parlaiament about English affairs, yet the English have no say in Scottish affairs.  I'm pretty damn sure that if the English were included in the referendum for the break-up of the Union they'd vote yes.  Added to that's the benefit that, if the Scots say goodbye, Labour're pretty much stuffed or winning future elections.

You're so right on everything, as usual Tess.

The English will not vote because they will vote the wrong way.

The English will not vote on Europe because we would vote the wrong way.

Such a perverse country.

That is what happens when a tiny country with a tiny population is raped, murdered and plundered for years, Scotland had to defend itself , we have been run by unwanted governments for 300 years or so, but had not say in things for a very long time,why don't you just ask Cameron for a referendum on English independence Andy?

Scotland just can't win eh?, you whinge if we ask for a referendum on independence, you would whinge if we never and make ridiculous claims that we all get far more per head up here and 'free ' prescriptions, even though they are financed from Scotland's share of uk money..pfft.

A chance happenstance a wee bit of serendipity OIL and the Scots find the William Wallace spirit.

Forgive me if I am singularly unimpressed. The next best export is Whisky and Harris tweed. I'm too young for one and the other is horrible.

Enjoy your referendum Labour refused to let the Brits have one about their relationship with Europe.

Irn Bru wrote:

Tess. wrote:
If the English benefitted from Scottish oil, the Scots have more than been paid back.  Free prescriptions... free university education... welfare benefits.... Scots have a say in Parlaiament about English affairs, yet the English have no say in Scottish affairs.  I'm pretty damn sure that if the English were included in the referendum for the break-up of the Union they'd vote yes.  Added to that's the benefit that, if the Scots say goodbye, Labour're pretty much stuffed or winning future elections.

The free precriptions and tuition fees come out of the block grant that Westminster allows us to have. If we choose to spend it on looking after the health of of the people and educating our children then that's what we'll do. We could spend it on other things but we don't. I think we have our priorities in the right place,,,,,,don't you?

Well said Irn, I just don't know how these people think England finance our prescriptions?!!

Joy Division wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


You're so right on everything, as usual Tess.

The English will not vote because they will vote the wrong way.

The English will not vote on Europe because we would vote the wrong way.

Such a perverse country.

That is what happens when a tiny country with a tiny population is raped, murdered and plundered for years, Scotland had to defend itself , we have been run by unwanted governments for 300 years or so, but had not say in things for a very long time,why don't you just ask Cameron for a referendum on English  independence Andy?

Scotland just can't win eh?, you whinge if we ask for a referendum on independence, you would  whinge if we never and make ridiculous claims that we all get far more per head up here and 'free ' prescriptions, even though they are financed  from Scotland's share of uk money..pfft.

Raped, murdered and plundered! purleeese! Anyway, hope you do really well on your own. Bye.  :D 

At the moment Westminster gets all the revenue from whisky, about £5bn

labour revival wrote:A chance happenstance a wee bit of serendipity OIL and the Scots find the William Wallace spirit.

Forgive me if I am singularly unimpressed. The next best export is Whisky and Harris tweed. I'm too young for one and the other is horrible.

Enjoy your referendum Labour refused to let the Brits have one about their relationship with Europe.

Irn has explained about the oil Drinky, just like I told you today, there would, always be folk voicing independence even without oil...

Now,you bled with Wallace....now bleed with me   

Sassy wrote:At the moment Westminster gets all the revenue from whisky, about £5bn

  


There you go Andy, Tess and Drinky...£5 BILLION!!!

Btw did we not bail out the Irish with staggering amounts of money from the UK?
Twice even?

Sassy wrote:At the moment Westminster gets all the revenue from whisky, about £5bn

There you go Andy and Drinky,,, we'll feed ya!!  

labour revival wrote:A chance happenstance a wee bit of serendipity OIL and the Scots find the William Wallace spirit.

Forgive me if I am singularly unimpressed. The next best export is Whisky and Harris tweed. I'm too young for one and the other is horrible.

Enjoy your referendum Labour refused to let the Brits have one about their relationship with Europe.

If you want to talk about William Wallace and Scottish history in that way and how that has led us to where we are today then I'd suggest that you take it up with Quill who is by far and away the best historian on Scottish (and British) history that I have ever seen on a discussion board and he's an American of Scottish origin.

Irn Bru wrote:

labour revival wrote:A chance happenstance a wee bit of serendipity OIL and the Scots find the William Wallace spirit.

Forgive me if I am singularly unimpressed. The next best export is Whisky and Harris tweed. I'm too young for one and the other is horrible.

Enjoy your referendum Labour refused to let the Brits have one about their relationship with Europe.

If you want to talk about William Wallace and Scottish history in that way and how that has led us to where we are today then I'd suggest that you take it up with Quill who is by far and away the best historian on Scottish (and British) history that I have ever seen on a discussion board and he's an American of Scottish origin.

..my brother was really good on Scots history too Irn, he was in the Clan Wallace.

Quill it seems was seen of by a greater force than Wallace. My point is simple without OIL this thread wouldn't be here.

The SNP wouldn't be here.

My last post on here. The UK has been good for all members this last 300 years the rest of the UK thought so its only nationalistic Scots who think otherwise.

What a shame.

Well as he is logged on, I sure he'll put you right, he definitely knows his stuff on Scottish history.

labour revival wrote:Quill it seems was seen of by a greater force than Wallace. My point is simple without OIL this thread wouldn't  be here.

The SNP wouldn't be here.

My last post on here. The UK has been good for all members this last 300 years the rest of the UK thought so its only nationalistic Scots who think otherwise.

What a shame.

Yes, it probably has been good for most of the UK but some people just like to run their own affairs and there is absolutely nothing wrong in balloting a nation to ask them what they think.

You're in favour of that aren't you or is your call for a referendum on Europe just an excuse for an argument?

Joy Division wrote:

Sassy wrote:At the moment Westminster gets all the revenue from whisky, about £5bn

  


There you go Andy, Tess and Drinky...£5  BILLION!!!

Btw did we not bail out the Irish with staggering amounts of money from the UK?
Twice even?

The Irish bail-out wasn't a gift! It was a loan, which has since been paid back, with interest.


Scots get £1,600 more per head than English: Figure show huge benefits they enjoy by being part of the Union

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511523/Scots-1-600-head-English-Figure-huge-benefits-enjoy-Union.html?login

Tess. wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


  


There you go Andy, Tess and Drinky...£5  BILLION!!!

Btw did we not bail out the Irish with staggering amounts of money from the UK?
Twice even?

The Irish bail-out wasn't a gift! It was a loan, which has since been paid back, with interest.

Irn already did a post to you on another thread showing that it hasn't been paid back.

On Scotland:

The Scottish government has shown that, if you apply the geographical share principle, Mr Salmond's figures are correct.

If we divide Scotland's total tax receipts for each year by its population, we generate a figure for the 'tax receipt per capita' - in other words, how much each person contributes to the Treasury. If we also repeat this calculation for the UK, we can see that Mr Salmond is on the money when he says, “In every single one of the last 30 years, the amount of tax revenues generated per person in Scotland was greater than for the UK as a whole.”

As he notes, in 2011/12 the tax receipt was £10,700 per person for Scotland, as opposed to an average of £9000 per person for the UK.

If, continuing to apply the geographical share principle, we look at how Scotland's total tax receipts since 1980 compare with the UK's, we can see that Scotland has contributed - as Mr Salmond notes - a surplus £222 billion in today's prices.

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/will_an_independent_scotland_be_better_off-28889

Tess. wrote:

Joy Division wrote:

Sassy wrote:At the moment Westminster gets all the revenue from whisky, about £5bn

  


There you go Andy, Tess and Drinky...£5  BILLION!!!

Btw did we not bail out the Irish with staggering amounts of money from the UK?
Twice even?

The Irish bail-out wasn't a gift! It was a loan, which has since been paid back, with interest.

It hasn't been paid back yet Tess. It will Take Ireland until around 2027 to settle up the bill but we Scots don't mind because it was not the fault of the hard working general population of Ireland.

Tess. wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


  


There you go Andy, Tess and Drinky...£5  BILLION!!!

Btw did we not bail out the Irish with staggering amounts of money from the UK?
Twice even?

The Irish bail-out wasn't a gift! It was a loan, which has since been paid back, with interest.

..it did still bail the Irish out , and of course...much if that money was Scots money, but we're happy to help  :D 

..of course I think Ireland has many , many years to pay back other lenders.

The IMF will continue to pay regular visits to Dublin until 75% of the bailout funds have been paid back.

Those repayments start in 2015 and it could be 2042 before they are fully paid off.

That could mean visits well into the 2020s - though in practice, Ireland will probably try to pay the money back more quickly if economic conditions allow it.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24703444

Irn Bru wrote:

Tess. wrote:
The Irish bail-out wasn't a gift! It was a loan, which has since been paid back, with interest.

It hasn't been paid back yet Tess. It will Take Ireland until around 2027 to settle up the bill but we Scots don't mind because it was not the fault of the hard working general population of Ireland.

Well Irn I did wonder, but I thought it was other lenders who Ireland would be paying back till around 2040 ??..

I just took Tess' word that the debt to the UK was paid back.

And just a reminder that the children of English, Welsh and N Irish families who live in Scotland also get free tution fees in Scotland's universities. Not just Scots.

Joy Division wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Tess. wrote:
The Irish bail-out wasn't a gift! It was a loan, which has since been paid back, with interest.

It hasn't been paid back yet Tess. It will Take Ireland until around 2027 to settle up the bill but we Scots don't mind because it was not the fault of the hard working general population of Ireland.

Well Irn I did wonder, but I thought it was other lenders who Ireland would be paying back till around 2040 ??..

I just took Tess' word that the debt to the UK was paid back.

It's the whole shabang JD and of course the IMF bailout also included money from the UK taxpayer.

Back to Scotland

The Scottish government has shown that, if you apply the geographical share principle, Mr Salmond's figures are correct.

If we divide Scotland's total tax receipts for each year by its population, we generate a figure for the 'tax receipt per capita' - in other words, how much each person contributes to the Treasury. If we also repeat this calculation for the UK, we can see that Mr Salmond is on the money when he says, “In every single one of the last 30 years, the amount of tax revenues generated per person in Scotland was greater than for the UK as a whole.”

As he notes, in 2011/12 the tax receipt was £10,700 per person for Scotland, as opposed to an average of £9000 per person for the UK.

If, continuing to apply the geographical share principle, we look at how Scotland's total tax receipts since 1980 compare with the UK's, we can see that Scotland has contributed - as Mr Salmond notes - a surplus £222 billion in today's prices.

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/will_an_independent_scotland_be_better_off-28889

Given that, and Scotland's attitude towards looking after it's people, I have no idea why they wouldn't vote 100 to devolve.

\if scotland votes for independance, then I'm "claiming on my tartan"...and emigrating north....

Sassy wrote:Back to Scotland

The Scottish government has shown that, if you apply the geographical share principle, Mr Salmond's figures are correct.

If we divide Scotland's total tax receipts for each year by its population, we generate a figure for the 'tax receipt per capita' - in other words, how much each person contributes to the Treasury. If we also repeat this calculation for the UK, we can see that Mr Salmond is on the money when he says, “In every single one of the last 30 years, the amount of tax revenues generated per person in Scotland was greater than for the UK as a whole.”

As he notes, in 2011/12 the tax receipt was £10,700 per person for Scotland, as opposed to an average of £9000 per person for the UK.

If, continuing to apply the geographical share principle, we look at how Scotland's total tax receipts since 1980 compare with the UK's, we can see that Scotland has contributed - as Mr Salmond notes - a surplus £222 billion in today's prices.

http://fullfact.org/factchecks/will_an_independent_scotland_be_better_off-28889

Given that, and Scotland's attitude towards looking after it's people, I have no idea why they wouldn't vote 100 to devolve.

Thank you for those very interesting figures Sassy, obviously Drinky is telling porkies and just trying to get a reaction,miso per person Scotland has contributed more in taxes than the average per head than the rest of the UK...

Cheers Sassy. :D 

Poor Andy and a Drinky, hateful wee boys who spread lies to discredit people, or indeed a whole country