If you don't scrap the Bedroom Tax Mr Cameron - a Labour government will

First topic message reminder :



Hated: Tax protested in November by supporters of the Mirror & Unite's campaign to abolish it

Today a bill to axe the Bedroom Tax will be discussed in the House of Commons. It’s been proposed by Labour MPs who want to see this hated tax abolished.

The Tories Bedroom Tax is doing enormous damage to hundreds of thousands of people across the country.

It has taken away support from 660,000 people, two thirds of whom are disabled.

Sixty thousand households with carers have been hit. I’ve met countless victims of the Bedroom Tax whose lives have been turned upside down.

Last week I met Tony Cunning who lives in Manchester. Tony suffers from kidney disease and needs dialysis three times a week.

When I met him he told me how a second room for medical equipment would enable him to have treatment at home.

But like so many other people, Anthony has been forced to pay the Bedroom Tax, making his life harder at a time when needs help and support.

Yet despite the overwhelming evidence from across the country that the Bedroom Tax is damaging people’s lives, the Tories are so out-of-touch they think their Bedroom Tax is a great success.

Tell that to the two thirds of households affected by the bedroom tax who cannot find the money to pay their rents or the one in seven are at risk of eviction.

Do the Tories really think it’s a success that low-income households who are being forced to find, on average, an extra £720 a year – or face losing their home?

Or that thousands of hard-pressed families hit by the Bedroom Tax are being forced to rely on food banks?

Is it really a success that tens of thousands of people have been wrongly charged the Bedroom Tax because of the errors made by bungling ministers?

I’ve seen the huge pressure which the Bedroom Tax has placed on families in my own constituency in Leeds. It’s the poorest in our communities who pay the Bedroom Tax.

And because there aren’t smaller properties to go to, they are forced to choose between heating, eating or paying rent.

If David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith have any decency, they would come to the House of Commons today and apologise for the damage which their Bedroom Tax has done to the country and announce they are scrapping it .

But don’t hold your breath... The Bedroom Tax is a true blue Tory policy. It taxes poor people’s bedrooms at the same time as David Cameron is cutting taxes for millionaires.

The Tories fought tooth and nail to impose their hated tax on the country, they defend it to the hilt and they won’t allow it to be abolished without a fight.

Today we have a simple message for David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith, if you don’t scrap the Bedroom Tax, then a Labour government will.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-rachel-reeves-message-3137066#ixzz2t7O7KPhz
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Labour pass bill to scrap Bedroom Tax by 226 votes to just ONE

      

Maine coon lover wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

What's wrong with that? They're not supposed to profit from a lodger are they?

I couldn't trust a stranger to lodge no matter how desperate , its dangerous they could be a rapist, thief , murderer. I fail to see the problem of a spare room and why its such a crime to have one . I feel that a lot of people working are so jealous of those receiving benefits they feel they are personally paying for their benefits and fail to realize that most who claim have paid their fair share of tax and NIC , so when they need help to survive why begrudge them .

Its a sad affair when we are forced to take in lodgers to make ends meet.

I am very blessed to own my home , but I feel so sorry for those who are struggling to keep a roof over their heads .

It isn't a crime to have a spare room. If people pay for it themselves, they can have as many as they like. They are trying to cut down on unnecessary benefits. A person in private accommodation would not be able to have a spare room paid for by the tax payers, so they have to say the same thing to council tenants on housing benefit too.

What do you think a lot of single people do when they buy a flat? They get a lodger to help with the mortgage payments. I know loads of people who have done that. All this paranoia is a bit silly. How do you think a lot of young people afford to leave home? They share a house with others.

I bet a lot of those who are claiming housing benefit have not paid in as much as they've taken out. People on minimum wage have to pay tax, so of course they're entitled to be a bit peeved if it's being wasted on spare rooms, especially if they're struggling themselves.

Sassy wrote:The report they did last night on tv showed that the people being most affected by this are disabled people who have had flats/houses specially adapted for them.   Especially disabled couples who can't sleep in the same bedroom because of the equipment they need.   It said that 30% of people in that position, or people with disabled children who need space for equipment, are being turned down by the local authority special funding, because the local authorities don't have enough money to cover them all.   Some of these people are severely disabled and thought they had found a safe place to live their lives, now they are being told they will be evicted.

It's inhuman and foul and they should bloody well be ashamed of themselves.   Council after council are doing reports to say they simply don't have smaller homes, council or private rental, to move these people to, and they don't have the people that want to move to a bigger property.

And when they move to a smaller place it will cost around £15000 to adapt it so might as well have paid for the spare room. Makes no sense .

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

I couldn't trust a stranger to lodge no matter how desperate , its dangerous they could be a rapist, thief , murderer. I fail to see the problem of a spare room and why its such a crime to have one . I feel that a lot of people working are so jealous of those receiving benefits they feel they are personally paying for their benefits and fail to realize that most who claim have paid their fair share of tax and NIC , so when they need help to survive why begrudge them .

Its a sad affair when we are forced to take in lodgers to make ends meet.

I am very blessed to own my home , but I feel so sorry for those who are struggling to keep a roof over their heads .

It isn't a crime to have a spare room. If people pay for it themselves, they can have as many as they like. They are trying to cut down on unnecessary benefits. A person in private accommodation would not be able to have a spare room paid for by the tax payers, so they have to say the same thing to council tenants on housing benefit too.

What do you think a lot of single people do when they buy a flat? They get a lodger to help with the mortgage payments. I know loads of people who have done that. All this paranoia is a bit silly. How do you think a lot of young people afford to leave home? They share a house with others.

I bet a lot of those who are claiming housing benefit have not paid in as much as they've taken out. People on minimum wage have to pay tax, so of course they're entitled to be a bit peeved if it's being wasted on spare rooms, especially if they're struggling themselves.

What paranoia is silly?, are you referring to where MCL pointed out that taking in a lodger could be a danger like a murderer, rapist, pervert or thief?

Or did you not notice she voiced those concerns? And perhaps your reference to paranoia silliness was about something else?

Joy Division wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It isn't a crime to have a spare room. If people pay for it themselves, they can have as many as they like. They are trying to cut down on unnecessary benefits. A person in private accommodation would not be able to have a spare room paid for by the tax payers, so they have to say the same thing to council tenants on housing benefit too.

What do you think a lot of single people do when they buy a flat? They get a lodger to help with the mortgage payments. I know loads of people who have done that. All this paranoia is a bit silly. How do you think a lot of young people afford to leave home? They share a house with others.

I bet a lot of those who are claiming housing benefit have not paid in as much as they've taken out. People on minimum wage have to pay tax, so of course they're entitled to be a bit peeved if it's being wasted on spare rooms, especially if they're struggling themselves.

What paranoia is silly?, are you referring to where MCL pointed out that taking in a lodger could be a danger like a murderer, rapist, pervert or thief?

Or did you not notice she voiced those concerns? And perhaps your  reference to paranoia silliness  was about something else?

This paranoia about lodgers being murderers or rapists. So council tenants need to be protected and others don't? What about all the people who do get lodgers? Are you worried about them being raped or murdered? Poor lodgers seem to have picked up a reputation they don't deserve!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

I couldn't trust a stranger to lodge no matter how desperate , its dangerous they could be a rapist, thief , murderer. I fail to see the problem of a spare room and why its such a crime to have one . I feel that a lot of people working are so jealous of those receiving benefits they feel they are personally paying for their benefits and fail to realize that most who claim have paid their fair share of tax and NIC , so when they need help to survive why begrudge them .

Its a sad affair when we are forced to take in lodgers to make ends meet.

I am very blessed to own my home , but I feel so sorry for those who are struggling to keep a roof over their heads .

It isn't a crime to have a spare room. If people pay for it themselves, they can have as many as they like. They are trying to cut down on unnecessary benefits. A person in private accommodation would not be able to have a spare room paid for by the tax payers, so they have to say the same thing to council tenants on housing benefit too.

What do you think a lot of single people do when they buy a flat? They get a lodger to help with the mortgage payments. I know loads of people who have done that. All this paranoia is a bit silly. How do you think a lot of young people afford to leave home? They share a house with others.

I bet a lot of those who are claiming housing benefit have not paid in as much as they've taken out. People on minimum wage have to pay tax, so of course they're entitled to be a bit peeved if it's being wasted on spare rooms, especially if they're struggling themselves.

but when you look at the money wasted by this government why are they dead set on this bedroom tax , it makes no sense at all its just a way of causing the poor more hardship , I honestly think it makes the likes of Cameron and IDS deliriously happy to see the poor struggle even more, sadistic .

They didn't think twice about spending 10 million on Thatcher's funeral when she and her children are multimillionaires, they should have paid for that , why waste it on her ?

Local papers are full of adverts for rooms in houses to rent. Do you think that's wrong in case an applicant might be a rapist or a murderer? It's ridiculous.

Maine coon lover wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It isn't a crime to have a spare room. If people pay for it themselves, they can have as many as they like. They are trying to cut down on unnecessary benefits. A person in private accommodation would not be able to have a spare room paid for by the tax payers, so they have to say the same thing to council tenants on housing benefit too.

What do you think a lot of single people do when they buy a flat? They get a lodger to help with the mortgage payments. I know loads of people who have done that. All this paranoia is a bit silly. How do you think a lot of young people afford to leave home? They share a house with others.

I bet a lot of those who are claiming housing benefit have not paid in as much as they've taken out. People on minimum wage have to pay tax, so of course they're entitled to be a bit peeved if it's being wasted on spare rooms, especially if they're struggling themselves.

but when you look at the money wasted by this government why are they dead set on this bedroom  tax , it makes no sense at all its just a way of causing the poor more hardship , I honestly think it makes the likes of Cameron and IDS deliriously happy to see the poor struggle even more, sadistic .

They didn't think twice about spending 10 million on Thatcher's funeral when she and her children are multimillionaires, they should have paid for that , why waste it on her ?

I think they have to do it because of the caps on benefits in general. It was getting to the point where people on benefits were better off than those who weren't - or that was the perception anyway.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


What paranoia is silly?, are you referring to where MCL pointed out that taking in a lodger could be a danger like a murderer, rapist, pervert or thief?

Or did you not notice she voiced those concerns? And perhaps your  reference to paranoia silliness  was about something else?

This paranoia about lodgers being murderers or rapists. So council tenants need to be protected and others don't? What about all the people who do get lodgers? Are you worried about them being raped or murdered? Poor lodgers seem to have picked up a reputation they don't deserve!

I should point out that its not just council tenants that I feel the bedroom tax is unfair to I feel the same about private tenants also .

Maine coon lover wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

This paranoia about lodgers being murderers or rapists. So council tenants need to be protected and others don't? What about all the people who do get lodgers? Are you worried about them being raped or murdered? Poor lodgers seem to have picked up a reputation they don't deserve!

I should point out that its not just council tenants that I feel the bedroom tax is unfair to I feel the same about private tenants also .

So you think that a private tenant should be able to have a two-bedroom house all to themselves for free? I doubt that many people with a job could afford that these days.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

but when you look at the money wasted by this government why are they dead set on this bedroom  tax , it makes no sense at all its just a way of causing the poor more hardship , I honestly think it makes the likes of Cameron and IDS deliriously happy to see the poor struggle even more, sadistic .

They didn't think twice about spending 10 million on Thatcher's funeral when she and her children are multimillionaires, they should have paid for that , why waste it on her ?

I think they have to do it because of the caps on benefits in general. It was getting to the point where people on benefits were better off than those who weren't - or that was the perception anyway.

Thatcher's funeral was money wasted though think what that money could have done for a child needing cancer treatment , no they wanted to spend it on a funeral for an old witch who didn't care about the poor either , talk about twisting the knife .

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

I should point out that its not just council tenants that I feel the bedroom tax is unfair to I feel the same about private tenants also .

So you think that a private tenant should be able to have a two-bedroom house all to themselves for free? I doubt that many people with a job could afford that these days.

Why is a spare room such a big deal ?

Maine coon lover wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think they have to do it because of the caps on benefits in general. It was getting to the point where people on benefits were better off than those who weren't - or that was the perception anyway.

Thatcher's funeral was money wasted though think what that money could have done for a child needing cancer treatment , no they wanted to spend it on a funeral for an old witch who didn't care about the poor either , talk about twisting the knife .

It's a different topic really. I'm sure a lot of money is wasted in this country.

However, benefits seem to be the in-thing at the moment, and I think a lot of people were getting disgruntled about them.

Maine coon lover wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So you think that a private tenant should be able to have a two-bedroom house all to themselves for free? I doubt that many people with a job could afford that these days.

Why is a spare room such a big deal ?

It's a big deal if it's free for one person and not for another. I'm sure a lot of people would love to have a house all to themselves, but they can't afford it. It's not right that those on benefits can have more space than those who aren't.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Joy Division wrote:


Well most on benefits have no job through no fault of their own, so I wouldn't really say housing benefit is simply a privilege, more a necessity, should those actively seeking work  on benefits not receive any HB then?

Those in employment are the lucky ones.

I don't mean that. I mean they have subsidised rent for a start, the option to buy the house they rent at a low price, the right to stay there without being kicked out, etc. They have lots of people rooting for them, as this thread shows, but what about everyone else? Do you think that everyone else is rich or something?

You are the one making it all about council tenants. I think other people would agree with me that we are talking about anyone getting housing benefit, council or private, they are both in the same boat in this.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

Why is a spare room such a big deal ?

It's a big deal if it's free for one person and not for another. I'm sure a lot of people would love to have a house all to themselves, but they can't afford it. It's not right that those on benefits can have more space than those who aren't.

Rubbish, most people don't take in lodgers, in fact those with mortgages aren't normally allowed to, it negates their insurance.

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't mean that. I mean they have subsidised rent for a start, the option to buy the house they rent at a low price, the right to stay there without being kicked out, etc. They have lots of people rooting for them, as this thread shows, but what about everyone else? Do you think that everyone else is rich or something?

You are the one making it all about council tenants.   I think other people would agree with me that we are talking about anyone getting housing benefit, council or private, they are both in the same boat in this.

The "bedroom tax" is about council tenants, isn't it?

Look, if I was working full time and living in a tiny bedsit because it's all I could afford, I'm not going to vote for a party which says - hey, all benefit recipients can have a spare room for free! No worries - the tax payers will pay for you to have it as a TV room, or you could put a pool table in it if you like. I'm just not, am I?

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's a big deal if it's free for one person and not for another. I'm sure a lot of people would love to have a house all to themselves, but they can't afford it. It's not right that those on benefits can have more space than those who aren't.

Rubbish, most people don't take in lodgers, in fact those with mortgages aren't normally allowed to, it negates their insurance.

Oh they do. I know loads of people who do. People used to share with others they didn't know all the time. Maybe expectations are higher these days. Maybe everyone thinks they're entitled to have a nice house with spare rooms at the expense of the tax payers.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

You are the one making it all about council tenants.   I think other people would agree with me that we are talking about anyone getting housing benefit, council or private, they are both in the same boat in this.

The "bedroom tax" is about council tenants, isn't it?

Look, if I was working full time and living in a tiny bedsit because it's all I could afford, I'm not going to vote for a party which says - hey, all benefit recipients can have a spare room for free! No worries - the tax payers will pay for you to have it as a TV room, or you could put a pool table in it if you like. I'm just not, am I?

No, the bedroom tax isn't about council tenants. It's people on housing benefit whether in private or council housing. THERE AREN'T ANY SMALLER PROPERTIES FOR THEM TO MOVE TO - as acknowledged by all Conservative Councils (who don't just deal with council housing).

Sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

The "bedroom tax" is about council tenants, isn't it?

Look, if I was working full time and living in a tiny bedsit because it's all I could afford, I'm not going to vote for a party which says - hey, all benefit recipients can have a spare room for free! No worries - the tax payers will pay for you to have it as a TV room, or you could put a pool table in it if you like. I'm just not, am I?

No, the bedroom tax isn't about council tenants.   It's people on housing benefit whether in private or council housing.   THERE AREN'T ANY SMALLER PROPERTIES FOR THEM TO MOVE TO - as acknowledged by all Conservative Councils (who don't just deal with council housing).

Is it? I've never heard about it being applied to those in private rentals, only social sector tenants.

Well, you don't seem to know anything about it, so why are you talking about it?


Bedroom tax could be a 'perverse disincentive to work,' MPs warned
• Affected part-time workers could be better off unemployed
• Policy reduces organisations' capacity to build new homes
• Scottish homelessness commitment put at risk

The government's controversial bedroom tax could discourage people from working, a group of MPs were warned today.

Speaking to a select committee of MPs, a housing association chief executive warned that people in part-time work are punished disproportionately by the policy and many could be better off unemployed. Under the policy, people considered to be underoccupying social homes face reductions to their benefits of up to 25% of their total rent.

Those only receiving partial housing benefit because they are in part-time work are penalised the same amount as those who receive housing benefit that covers their full rent amount.

The bedroom tax could therefore be a "perverse disincentive to work," said Carol Matthews.

"If you're on partial housing benefit because you're in part-time work, the impact of the charge is disproportionately higher as it is a percentage of the full rent, not percentage of the benefit," she added.

The chief executive of Riverside housing association also revealed the reduction of income caused by welfare reforms will mean 500 new homes will now no longer be built by her organisation.

"That is taking capacity out of our businesses to be able to support building new homes," she said. "Our increase in bad debt provision means that 500 homes are now not going to be built."

Matthews added that 20% of residents affected by the bedroom tax were attempting to move home to avoid the penalty, and of these almost half were moving into the typically more expensive private rented sector. The higher rate of housing benefit paid to cover the higher rent would, she added, reduce the savings the government had hoped to make by £168m.

The select committee is investigating the support for housing costs under the government's reform of the welfare system.

The committee was also warned the bedroom tax risked "fundamentally undermining" Scotland's progressive commitment to reducing homelessness and ensuring everyone has the right to a permanent home.

David Ogilvie, policy manager at the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations, said Scottish parliament could be justifiably proud of the country's homelessness commitment, but added: "The ability to achieve its own targets is being fundamentally undermined by this policy."

Ogilvie said that homeless people could be left in temporary accommodation for far longer periods of time as people affected by the bedroom tax are moved into the few smaller properties available.

"We're very concerned that people would get stuck in inappropriate accommodation, particularly temporary accommodation," he said, adding that those in temporary accommodation were often subject to the bedroom tax. "We have slightly larger properties in temporary accommodation to accommodate families, but if its a single person or a couple, they could have a two-bedroom excess."

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2013/dec/04/bedroom-tax-perverse-disincentive-work-mps-unemployed-homelessness

Sassy wrote:Well, you don't seem to know anything about it, so why are you talking about it?  


Bedroom tax could be a 'perverse disincentive to work,' MPs warned
• Affected part-time workers could be better off unemployed
• Policy reduces organisations' capacity to build new homes
• Scottish homelessness commitment put at risk

The government's controversial bedroom tax could discourage people from working, a group of MPs were warned today.

Speaking to a select committee of MPs, a housing association chief executive warned that people in part-time work are punished disproportionately by the policy and many could be better off unemployed. Under the policy, people considered to be underoccupying social homes face reductions to their benefits of up to 25% of their total rent.

Those only receiving partial housing benefit because they are in part-time work are penalised the same amount as those who receive housing benefit that covers their full rent amount.

The bedroom tax could therefore be a "perverse disincentive to work," said Carol Matthews.

"If you're on partial housing benefit because you're in part-time work, the impact of the charge is disproportionately higher as it is a percentage of the full rent, not percentage of the benefit," she added.

The chief executive of Riverside housing association also revealed the reduction of income caused by welfare reforms will mean 500 new homes will now no longer be built by her organisation.

"That is taking capacity out of our businesses to be able to support building new homes," she said. "Our increase in bad debt provision means that 500 homes are now not going to be built."

Matthews added that 20% of residents affected by the bedroom tax were attempting to move home to avoid the penalty, and of these almost half were moving into the typically more expensive private rented sector. The higher rate of housing benefit paid to cover the higher rent would, she added, reduce the savings the government had hoped to make by £168m.

The select committee is investigating the support for housing costs under the government's reform of the welfare system.

The committee was also warned the bedroom tax risked "fundamentally undermining" Scotland's progressive commitment to reducing homelessness and ensuring everyone has the right to a permanent home.

David Ogilvie, policy manager at the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations, said Scottish parliament could be justifiably proud of the country's homelessness commitment, but added: "The ability to achieve its own targets is being fundamentally undermined by this policy."

Ogilvie said that homeless people could be left in temporary accommodation for far longer periods of time as people affected by the bedroom tax are moved into the few smaller properties available.

"We're very concerned that people would get stuck in inappropriate accommodation, particularly temporary accommodation," he said, adding that those in temporary accommodation were often subject to the bedroom tax. "We have slightly larger properties in temporary accommodation to accommodate families, but if its a single person or a couple, they could have a two-bedroom excess."

http://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2013/dec/04/bedroom-tax-perverse-disincentive-work-mps-unemployed-homelessness

Me? Of course I do. It applies to people in social housing who are getting housing benefit. What is your take on it - without resorting to copying and pasting?

No it doesn't.   It applies to people having housing benefit, which includes people who are working and who's wages are low, whether they are in council housing, housing association housing, or private landlords.

And the C&P is called providing verifiable evidence.

Sassy wrote:No it doesn't.   It applies to people having housing benefit, which includes people who are working and who's wages are low, whether they are in council housing, housing association housing, or private landlords.

And the C&P is called providing verifiable evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21321113

"The government says it is simply removing the "spare room subsidy" which put social sector tenants in a better position than those in the private rental sector."

There are rules for private tenants too, but it's not called the "bedroom tax". It's more to do with benefit caps.

Hated: Tax protested in November by supporters of the Mirror & Unite's campaign to abolish it

Today a bill to axe the Bedroom Tax will be discussed in the House of Commons. It’s been proposed by Labour MPs who want to see this hated tax abolished.

The Tories Bedroom Tax is doing enormous damage to hundreds of thousands of people across the country.

It has taken away support from 660,000 people, two thirds of whom are disabled.

Sixty thousand households with carers have been hit. I’ve met countless victims of the Bedroom Tax whose lives have been turned upside down.

Last week I met Tony Cunning who lives in Manchester. Tony suffers from kidney disease and needs dialysis three times a week.

When I met him he told me how a second room for medical equipment would enable him to have treatment at home.

But like so many other people, Anthony has been forced to pay the Bedroom Tax, making his life harder at a time when needs help and support.

Yet despite the overwhelming evidence from across the country that the Bedroom Tax is damaging people’s lives, the Tories are so out-of-touch they think their Bedroom Tax is a great success.

Tell that to the two thirds of households affected by the bedroom tax who cannot find the money to pay their rents or the one in seven are at risk of eviction.

Do the Tories really think it’s a success that low-income households who are being forced to find, on average, an extra £720 a year – or face losing their home?

Or that thousands of hard-pressed families hit by the Bedroom Tax are being forced to rely on food banks?

Is it really a success that tens of thousands of people have been wrongly charged the Bedroom Tax because of the errors made by bungling ministers?

I’ve seen the huge pressure which the Bedroom Tax has placed on families in my own constituency in Leeds. It’s the poorest in our communities who pay the Bedroom Tax.

And because there aren’t smaller properties to go to, they are forced to choose between heating, eating or paying rent.

If David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith have any decency, they would come to the House of Commons today and apologise for the damage which their Bedroom Tax has done to the country and announce they are scrapping it .

But don’t hold your breath... The Bedroom Tax is a true blue Tory policy. It taxes poor people’s bedrooms at the same time as David Cameron is cutting taxes for millionaires.

The Tories fought tooth and nail to impose their hated tax on the country, they defend it to the hilt and they won’t allow it to be abolished without a fight.

Today we have a simple message for David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith, if you don’t scrap the Bedroom Tax, then a Labour government will.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-rachel-reeves-message-3137066#ixzz2t7O7KPhz

The words"The Bedroom Tax",, repeated here ad nauseam by Rachel Reeves and even afforded capital letters in a deliberate attempt to signify that this is the correct name for the change in housing benefit rules, is a typically blatant exercise in Labour Party spin and political brainwashing .

A tax, by definition, is a charge, fee, levy or contribution which must be paid

Exactly who will have to pay the so-called bedroom tax? Will they get a bill? Will they be hounded and prosecuted by a local council or HMRC if they do not file a return and pay up?

Of course not...what will happen is that the tenants affected will get a reduction in the amount that is paid to them by the state.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:Hated: Tax protested in November by supporters of the Mirror & Unite's campaign to abolish it

Today a bill to axe the Bedroom Tax will be discussed in the House of Commons. It’s been proposed by Labour MPs who want to see this hated tax abolished.

The Tories Bedroom Tax is doing enormous damage to hundreds of thousands of people across the country.

It has taken away support from 660,000 people, two thirds of whom are disabled.

Sixty thousand households with carers have been hit. I’ve met countless victims of the Bedroom Tax whose lives have been turned upside down.

Last week I met Tony Cunning who lives in Manchester. Tony suffers from kidney disease and needs dialysis three times a week.

When I met him he told me how a second room for medical equipment would enable him to have treatment at home.

But like so many other people, Anthony has been forced to pay the Bedroom Tax, making his life harder at a time when needs help and support.

Yet despite the overwhelming evidence from across the country that the Bedroom Tax is damaging people’s lives, the Tories are so out-of-touch they think their Bedroom Tax is a great success.

Tell that to the two thirds of households affected by the bedroom tax who cannot find the money to pay their rents or the one in seven are at risk of eviction.

Do the Tories really think it’s a success that low-income households who are being forced to find, on average, an extra £720 a year – or face losing their home?

Or that thousands of hard-pressed families hit by the Bedroom Tax are being forced to rely on food banks?

Is it really a success that tens of thousands of people have been wrongly charged the Bedroom Tax because of the errors made by bungling ministers?

I’ve seen the huge pressure which the Bedroom Tax has placed on families in my own constituency in Leeds. It’s the poorest in our communities who pay the Bedroom Tax.

And because there aren’t smaller properties to go to, they are forced to choose between heating, eating or paying rent.

If David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith have any decency, they would come to the House of Commons today and apologise for the damage which their Bedroom Tax has done to the country and announce they are scrapping it .

But don’t hold your breath... The Bedroom Tax is a true blue Tory policy. It taxes poor people’s bedrooms at the same time as David Cameron is cutting taxes for millionaires.

The Tories fought tooth and nail to impose their hated tax on the country, they defend it to the hilt and they won’t allow it to be abolished without a fight.

Today we have a simple message for David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith, if you don’t scrap the Bedroom Tax, then a Labour government will.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-rachel-reeves-message-3137066#ixzz2t7O7KPhz

The words"The Bedroom Tax",, repeated here ad nauseam by Rachel Reeves and even afforded capital letters in a deliberate attempt to signify that this is the correct name for the change in housing benefit rules, is a typically blatant exercise in Labour Party spin and political brainwashing .

A tax, by definition, is a charge, fee, levy or contribution which must be paid

Exactly who will have to pay the so-called bedroom tax? Will they get a bill? Will they be hounded and prosecuted by a local council or HMRC if they do not file a return and pay up?

Of course not...what will happen is that the tenants affected will get a reduction in the amount that is paid to them by the state.

Yes. They make it sound like the actual rent for the property is going up if they have a spare bedroom, but it's not. They shouldn't call it a tax at all.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:Hated: Tax protested in November by supporters of the Mirror & Unite's campaign to abolish it

Today a bill to axe the Bedroom Tax will be discussed in the House of Commons. It’s been proposed by Labour MPs who want to see this hated tax abolished.

The Tories Bedroom Tax is doing enormous damage to hundreds of thousands of people across the country.

It has taken away support from 660,000 people, two thirds of whom are disabled.

Sixty thousand households with carers have been hit. I’ve met countless victims of the Bedroom Tax whose lives have been turned upside down.

Last week I met Tony Cunning who lives in Manchester. Tony suffers from kidney disease and needs dialysis three times a week.

When I met him he told me how a second room for medical equipment would enable him to have treatment at home.

But like so many other people, Anthony has been forced to pay the Bedroom Tax, making his life harder at a time when needs help and support.

Yet despite the overwhelming evidence from across the country that the Bedroom Tax is damaging people’s lives, the Tories are so out-of-touch they think their Bedroom Tax is a great success.

Tell that to the two thirds of households affected by the bedroom tax who cannot find the money to pay their rents or the one in seven are at risk of eviction.

Do the Tories really think it’s a success that low-income households who are being forced to find, on average, an extra £720 a year – or face losing their home?

Or that thousands of hard-pressed families hit by the Bedroom Tax are being forced to rely on food banks?

Is it really a success that tens of thousands of people have been wrongly charged the Bedroom Tax because of the errors made by bungling ministers?

I’ve seen the huge pressure which the Bedroom Tax has placed on families in my own constituency in Leeds. It’s the poorest in our communities who pay the Bedroom Tax.

And because there aren’t smaller properties to go to, they are forced to choose between heating, eating or paying rent.

If David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith have any decency, they would come to the House of Commons today and apologise for the damage which their Bedroom Tax has done to the country and announce they are scrapping it .

But don’t hold your breath... The Bedroom Tax is a true blue Tory policy. It taxes poor people’s bedrooms at the same time as David Cameron is cutting taxes for millionaires.

The Tories fought tooth and nail to impose their hated tax on the country, they defend it to the hilt and they won’t allow it to be abolished without a fight.

Today we have a simple message for David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith, if you don’t scrap the Bedroom Tax, then a Labour government will.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-rachel-reeves-message-3137066#ixzz2t7O7KPhz

The words"The Bedroom Tax",, repeated here ad nauseam by Rachel Reeves and even afforded capital letters in a deliberate attempt to signify that this is the correct name for the change in housing benefit rules, is a typically blatant exercise in Labour Party spin and political brainwashing .

A tax, by definition, is a charge, fee, levy or contribution which must be paid

Exactly who will have to pay the so-called bedroom tax? Will they get a bill? Will they be hounded and prosecuted by a local council or HMRC if they do not file a return and pay up?

Of course not...what will happen is that the tenants affected will get a reduction in the amount that is paid to them by the state.

The term Bedroom Tax wasn't coined by the Labour Party. The credit for that goes to Lord Best who sits in the House of Lords as an independent and he called it that because he see's it as just that.
You're right though, the people don't get a bill, it's just deducted from their HB which is even worse than the Poll Tax which at least had a Brown envelope dropping through the letter box giving people options and some time on how they may be able to settle up.
Whether it i called a Bedroom Tax or anything else makes no difference, it's just plain wrong and this government should take heed of the recommendations outlined in the UN report that dams it for what it is.

Irn Bru wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:Hated: Tax protested in November by supporters of the Mirror & Unite's campaign to abolish it

Today a bill to axe the Bedroom Tax will be discussed in the House of Commons. It’s been proposed by Labour MPs who want to see this hated tax abolished.

The Tories Bedroom Tax is doing enormous damage to hundreds of thousands of people across the country.

It has taken away support from 660,000 people, two thirds of whom are disabled.

Sixty thousand households with carers have been hit. I’ve met countless victims of the Bedroom Tax whose lives have been turned upside down.

Last week I met Tony Cunning who lives in Manchester. Tony suffers from kidney disease and needs dialysis three times a week.

When I met him he told me how a second room for medical equipment would enable him to have treatment at home.

But like so many other people, Anthony has been forced to pay the Bedroom Tax, making his life harder at a time when needs help and support.

Yet despite the overwhelming evidence from across the country that the Bedroom Tax is damaging people’s lives, the Tories are so out-of-touch they think their Bedroom Tax is a great success.

Tell that to the two thirds of households affected by the bedroom tax who cannot find the money to pay their rents or the one in seven are at risk of eviction.

Do the Tories really think it’s a success that low-income households who are being forced to find, on average, an extra £720 a year – or face losing their home?

Or that thousands of hard-pressed families hit by the Bedroom Tax are being forced to rely on food banks?

Is it really a success that tens of thousands of people have been wrongly charged the Bedroom Tax because of the errors made by bungling ministers?

I’ve seen the huge pressure which the Bedroom Tax has placed on families in my own constituency in Leeds. It’s the poorest in our communities who pay the Bedroom Tax.

And because there aren’t smaller properties to go to, they are forced to choose between heating, eating or paying rent.

If David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith have any decency, they would come to the House of Commons today and apologise for the damage which their Bedroom Tax has done to the country and announce they are scrapping it .

But don’t hold your breath... The Bedroom Tax is a true blue Tory policy. It taxes poor people’s bedrooms at the same time as David Cameron is cutting taxes for millionaires.

The Tories fought tooth and nail to impose their hated tax on the country, they defend it to the hilt and they won’t allow it to be abolished without a fight.

Today we have a simple message for David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith, if you don’t scrap the Bedroom Tax, then a Labour government will.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-rachel-reeves-message-3137066#ixzz2t7O7KPhz

The words"The Bedroom Tax",, repeated here ad nauseam by Rachel Reeves and even afforded capital letters in a deliberate attempt to signify that this is the correct name for the change in housing benefit rules, is a typically blatant exercise in Labour Party spin and political brainwashing .

A tax, by definition, is a charge, fee, levy or contribution which must be paid

Exactly who will have to pay the so-called bedroom tax? Will they get a bill? Will they be hounded and prosecuted by a local council or HMRC if they do not file a return and pay up?

Of course not...what will happen is that the tenants affected will get a reduction in the amount that is paid to them by the state.

The term Bedroom Tax wasn't coined by the Labour Party. The credit for that goes to Lord Best who sits in the House of Lords as an independent and he called it that because he see's it as just that.
You're right though, the people don't get a bill, it's just deducted from their HB which is even worse than the Poll Tax which at least had a Brown envelope dropping through the letter box giving people options and some time on how they may be able to settle up.
Whether it i called a Bedroom Tax or anything else makes no difference, it's just plain wrong and this government should take heed of the recommendations outlined in the UN report that dams it for what it is.

Well the BBC is under the impression that it was "dubbed" as such by the Labour Party, and even if they are wrong and you are right, Labour have certainly hijacked the term and are "spinning" it to the extent of publishing it with capitals as The Bedroom Tax which I suggest is intended to be deliberately misleading.

Whether the change in housing benefit is wrong or not is a matter of conjecture; it is Reeves's blatant exercise in brainwashing that I am talking about here. Dammit, she even describes one of her constituents as having to "pay the Bedroom Tax" which is a downright lie.

Had something similar been published in the Daily Mail in this form and targeted at a piece of Labour legislation, most posters in this forum would have been raising merry hell about it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21321113

It is a tax on the poor pure and simple. I posted this thread on Flaps.

This is the Poll tax of Cameron and we know what the Poll tax did for Maggie. Labour created a great welfare system this government is starving people out of there homes.Tory scum lead by public school toffs. The next election will see this reversed for sure.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:

No, the bedroom tax isn't about council tenants.   It's people on housing benefit whether in private or council housing.   THERE AREN'T ANY SMALLER PROPERTIES FOR THEM TO MOVE TO - as acknowledged by all Conservative Councils (who don't just deal with council housing).

Is it? I've never heard about it being applied to those in private rentals, only social sector tenants.

  
Not at all, sassy is quite right in that private rentals also get Housing Benefit...not just council house tenants.

labour revival wrote:It is a tax on the poor pure and simple. I posted this thread on Flaps.

This is the Poll tax of Cameron and we know what the Poll tax did for Maggie. Labour created a great welfare system this government is starving people out of there homes.Tory scum lead by public school toffs. The next election will see this reversed for sure.

Absolutely correct LR..and welcome btw  another scumbag tax imposed on the poorest again

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:Hated: Tax protested in November by supporters of the Mirror & Unite's campaign to abolish it

Today a bill to axe the Bedroom Tax will be discussed in the House of Commons. It’s been proposed by Labour MPs who want to see this hated tax abolished.

The Tories Bedroom Tax is doing enormous damage to hundreds of thousands of people across the country.

It has taken away support from 660,000 people, two thirds of whom are disabled.

Sixty thousand households with carers have been hit. I’ve met countless victims of the Bedroom Tax whose lives have been turned upside down.

Last week I met Tony Cunning who lives in Manchester. Tony suffers from kidney disease and needs dialysis three times a week.

When I met him he told me how a second room for medical equipment would enable him to have treatment at home.

But like so many other people, Anthony has been forced to pay the Bedroom Tax, making his life harder at a time when needs help and support.

Yet despite the overwhelming evidence from across the country that the Bedroom Tax is damaging people’s lives, the Tories are so out-of-touch they think their Bedroom Tax is a great success.

Tell that to the two thirds of households affected by the bedroom tax who cannot find the money to pay their rents or the one in seven are at risk of eviction.

Do the Tories really think it’s a success that low-income households who are being forced to find, on average, an extra £720 a year – or face losing their home?

Or that thousands of hard-pressed families hit by the Bedroom Tax are being forced to rely on food banks?

Is it really a success that tens of thousands of people have been wrongly charged the Bedroom Tax because of the errors made by bungling ministers?

I’ve seen the huge pressure which the Bedroom Tax has placed on families in my own constituency in Leeds. It’s the poorest in our communities who pay the Bedroom Tax.

And because there aren’t smaller properties to go to, they are forced to choose between heating, eating or paying rent.

If David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith have any decency, they would come to the House of Commons today and apologise for the damage which their Bedroom Tax has done to the country and announce they are scrapping it .

But don’t hold your breath... The Bedroom Tax is a true blue Tory policy. It taxes poor people’s bedrooms at the same time as David Cameron is cutting taxes for millionaires.

The Tories fought tooth and nail to impose their hated tax on the country, they defend it to the hilt and they won’t allow it to be abolished without a fight.

Today we have a simple message for David Cameron and Iain Duncan Smith, if you don’t scrap the Bedroom Tax, then a Labour government will.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-rachel-reeves-message-3137066#ixzz2t7O7KPhz

The words"The Bedroom Tax",, repeated here ad nauseam by Rachel Reeves and even afforded capital letters in a deliberate attempt to signify that this is the correct name for the change in housing benefit rules, is a typically blatant exercise in Labour Party spin and political brainwashing .

A tax, by definition, is a charge, fee, levy or contribution which must be paid

Exactly who will have to pay the so-called bedroom tax? Will they get a bill? Will they be hounded and prosecuted by a local council or HMRC if they do not file a return and pay up?

Of course not...what will happen is that the tenants affected will get a reduction in the amount that is paid to them by the state.

The term Bedroom Tax wasn't coined by the Labour Party. The credit for that goes to Lord Best who sits in the House of Lords as an independent and he called it that because he see's it as just that.
You're right though, the people don't get a bill, it's just deducted from their HB which is even worse than the Poll Tax which at least had a Brown envelope dropping through the letter box giving people options and some time on how they may be able to settle up.
Whether it i called a Bedroom Tax or anything else makes no difference, it's just plain wrong and this government should take heed of the recommendations outlined in the UN report that dams it for what it is.

Well the BBC is under the impression that it was "dubbed" as such by the Labour Party, and even if they are wrong and you are right, Labour have certainly hijacked the term and are "spinning" it to the extent of publishing it with capitals as The Bedroom Tax which I suggest is intended to be deliberately misleading.

Whether the change in housing benefit is wrong or not is a matter of conjecture; it is Reeves's blatant exercise in brainwashing that I am talking about here. Dammit, she even describes one of her constituents as having to "pay the Bedroom Tax" which is a downright lie.

Had something similar been published in the Daily Mail in this form and targeted at a piece of Labour legislation, most posters in this forum would have been raising merry hell about it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21321113

Peer defends 'bedroom tax' term

http://www.insidehousing.co.uk/tenancies/peer-defends-bedroom-tax-term/6526030.article

And I don't blame Rachael Reeves one little bit for using the term Bedroom Tax because it deserves to be called that. It's even caught on with some Tories who have used the term as well. That's how the cookie crumbles in politics isn't it?

Happened with the Community Charge when that was dubbed the Poll Tax - worked a treat - well done Reeves.

That's it Irn, no matter what it's called,mits another tax on the poorest and most vulnerable to raise further revenue, of course, the poor pay the price again.

Joy Division wrote:That's it Irn, no matter what it's called,mits another tax on the poorest and most vulnerable to raise further revenue, of course, the poor pay the price again.

Too true JD.

CYA all tomorrow.

Irn Bru wrote:

Joy Division wrote:That's it Irn, no matter what it's called,mits another tax on the poorest and most vulnerable to raise further revenue, of course, the poor pay the price again.

Too true JD.

CYA all tomorrow.

Ok Irn, sleep well chief  :D 

 

WHY do I get this strong feeling that  "Ragamuffin"  doesn't actually live in Britain...

But is actually writing from somewhere abroad ??

As  (s)he   does seem to be somewhat quite ignorant of the conditions over there !

labour revival wrote:It is a tax on the poor pure and simple. I posted this thread on Flaps.

This is the Poll tax of Cameron and we know what the Poll tax did for Maggie. Labour created a great welfare system this government is starving people out of there homes.Tory scum lead by public school toffs. The next election will see this reversed for sure.

I agree and I would also like to see universal credit reversed especially for the self employed , I know a lot of small businesses who rely on tax credits and they will lose their businesses when it comes into force , I do understand there are those who claim to be on a low income so they can claim tax credits but what is worse giving a family who are self employed £100 a week tax credits or giving them £120 if they claim jsa ? It makes sense to keep those in self employment and to claim tax credits rather than force them out of business .

Beekeeper wrote: 

WHY do I get this strong feeling that  "Ragamuffin"  doesn't actually live in Britain...

But is actually writing from somewhere abroad ??

As  (s)he   does seem to be somewhat quite ignorant of the conditions over there !

Oh, I do hope I'm posting from the French Riviera - it's lovely there.   

Raggamuffin wrote:

Sassy wrote:No it doesn't.   It applies to people having housing benefit, which includes people who are working and who's wages are low, whether they are in council housing, housing association housing, or private landlords.

And the C&P is called providing verifiable evidence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21321113

"The government says it is simply removing the "spare room subsidy" which put social sector tenants in a better position than those in the private rental sector."

There are rules for private tenants too, but it's not called the "bedroom tax". It's more to do with benefit caps.

same thing just different wording, private tenants also only get HB for the amount of bedrooms they need .

So then, if they get rid of the bedroom tax, will they then have to scrap housing benefit caps for those who are not in social housing?

Maine coon lover wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21321113

"The government says it is simply removing the "spare room subsidy" which put social sector tenants in a better position than those in the private rental sector."

There are rules for private tenants too, but it's not called the "bedroom tax". It's more to do with benefit caps.

same thing just different wording, private tenants also only get HB for the amount of bedrooms they need .

Well someone asked why I kept applying the bedroom tax only to social housing, so I was explaining why. I have talked about benefit caps for those in private rentals as well.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

same thing just different wording, private tenants also only get HB for the amount of bedrooms they need .

Well someone asked why I kept applying the bedroom tax only to social housing, so I was explaining why. I have talked about benefit caps for those in private rentals as well.

I know you have   I think the main reason there is so much of an uproar over the bedroom tax is that with its just caused more hardship for the poor , I cant imagine how they cope on low incomes I know one family who sit in the cold all day and only put the heating at night because they just cant afford to stay warm . I know people who are working and have a low income who cant afford to keep warm because the cost of living is so expensive   

Maine coon lover wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well someone asked why I kept applying the bedroom tax only to social housing, so I was explaining why. I have talked about benefit caps for those in private rentals as well.

I know you have   I think the main reason there is so much of an uproar over the bedroom tax is that with its just caused more hardship for the poor , I cant imagine how they cope on low incomes I know one family who sit in the cold all day and only put the heating at night because they just cant afford to stay warm . I know people who are working and have a low income who cant afford to keep warm because the cost of living is so expensive   

Yes, but there seems to be an assumption that poor people only live in social housing. They don't - as someone pointed out there aren't enough to go around, so there are many poor people who don't get the same sympathy as social housing tenants.

I think the bedroom tax is partly an attempt to make things more equitable for everyone so that council tenants are not seen to be getting more privileges than anyone else.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

I know you have   I think the main reason there is so much of an uproar over the bedroom tax is that with its just caused more hardship for the poor , I cant imagine how they cope on low incomes I know one family who sit in the cold all day and only put the heating at night because they just cant afford to stay warm . I know people who are working and have a low income who cant afford to keep warm because the cost of living is so expensive   

Yes, but there seems to be an assumption that poor people only live in social housing. They don't - as someone pointed out there aren't enough to go around, so there are many poor people who don't get the same sympathy as social housing tenants.

I think the bedroom tax is partly an attempt to make things more equitable for everyone so that council tenants are not seen to be getting more privileges than anyone else.

I see what you mean , but I think the bedroom tax for both private tenants and social housing came in at the same time .

It also affects those with mortgages who need to claim support for mortgage interest while out of work as the interest is only paid at 3.36% and most people have mortgages with interest rates much higher than this.

I mentioned before my sister in law works for the CAB and has many families having their homes repossessed because they can't afford to make up the difference in mortgage interest and even if they do manage to keep up with it they will lose their homes anyway if they cant find work after 2 years as any help they receive stops after 2 years, so its not just rented homes who are targeted it is families who have a mortgage and they stand to lose out in the end if there is no work to be found .

Maine coon lover wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, but there seems to be an assumption that poor people only live in social housing. They don't - as someone pointed out there aren't enough to go around, so there are many poor people who don't get the same sympathy as social housing tenants.

I think the bedroom tax is partly an attempt to make things more equitable for everyone so that council tenants are not seen to be getting more privileges than anyone else.

I see what you mean , but I think the bedroom tax for both private tenants and social housing came in at the same time .

It also affects those with mortgages who need to claim support for mortgage interest while out of work as the interest is only paid at 3.36% and most people have mortgages with interest rates much higher than this.

I mentioned before my sister in law works for the CAB and has many families having their homes repossessed because they can't afford to make up the difference in mortgage interest and even if they do manage to keep up with it they will lose their homes anyway if they cant find work after 2 years as any help they receive stops after 2 years, so its not just rented homes who are targeted it is families who have a mortgage and they stand to lose out in the end if there is no work to be found .

I wouldn't call benefit caps the same thing as the bedroom tax, and the press doesn't either, so maybe there's some confusion there. If I say "bedroom tax" I'm specifically talking about social housing tenants who receive housing benefit.

I think it's absolutely fair that people can only get housing benefit for the space they actually need, and the problem with council tenants on housing benefit appears to be that they've been in their houses for ages, or they expected to be, so they resent being told to pay some of the rent or move. Those in private rentals perhaps don't expect to be there for ever, and so they don't mind moving so much.

Those with mortgages also suffer when their luck turns bad, but we don't hear an outcry about that. I suppose that people take their chance when they take on a mortgage, and maybe people assume that those who own houses are "rich".

I'm hardly surprised that so many of you should be so supportive of Reeves's blatant exercise in brain washing - repreating the words "Bedroom Tax" over and over again until people come to believe that it actually exists.

I seem to recall that a certain politician in history adopted a similar sort of strategy.

And her blatant lie - that one of her seriously disabled constituents is "being forced to pay the Bedroom Tax" actually rates a brownie point!

Quelle surprise.

I shall watch with interest the reaction if a future Labour government unilaterally decides to cut the agricultural single area payment to farmers (for which substitute "subsidy" or "benefit") and the National Farmers' Union launches into a hysterical campaign claiming that their members are being forced to pay a tax.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I'm hardly surprised that so many of you should be so supportive of Reeves's blatant exercise in brain washing - repreating the words "Bedroom Tax" over and over again until people come to believe that it actually exists.

I seem to recall that a certain politician in history adopted a similar sort of strategy.

And her blatant lie - that one of her seriously disabled constituents is "being forced to pay the Bedroom Tax" actually rates a brownie point!

Quelle surprise.

I shall watch with interest the reaction if a future Labour government unilaterally decides to cut the agricultural single area payment to farmers (for which substitute "subsidy" or "benefit") and the National Farmers' Union launches into a hysterical campaign claiming that their members are being forced to pay a tax.

I call it that for ease of reference. I sometimes use inverted commas but other times I can't be bothered.   

What about tax credits? Are they called that because they take tax from some people and give it to others?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Fred Moletrousers wrote:I'm hardly surprised that so many of you should be so supportive of Reeves's blatant exercise in brain washing - repreating the words "Bedroom Tax" over and over again until people come to believe that it actually exists.

I seem to recall that a certain politician in history adopted a similar sort of strategy.

And her blatant lie - that one of her seriously disabled constituents is "being forced to pay the Bedroom Tax" actually rates a brownie point!

Quelle surprise.

I shall watch with interest the reaction if a future Labour government unilaterally decides to cut the agricultural single area payment to farmers (for which substitute "subsidy" or "benefit") and the National Farmers' Union launches into a hysterical campaign claiming that their members are being forced to pay a tax.

I call it that for ease of reference. I sometimes use inverted commas but other times I can't be bothered.   

What about tax credits? Are they called that because they take tax from some people and give it to others?

Ah, but you're not a Labour politician, a left wing newspaper or a trade union conducting a campaign against a change in housing benefit by brainwashing people into calling it a tax and, more importantly, into believing that it is a tax.

It isn't...it's a reduction in the amount of money that a claimant receives, not an increase in what he pays out.

Of course people now routinely call it "bedroom tax" - because they have been programmed into thinking that's what it is. Labour managed to brainwash people into calling community charge "poll tax" by using the same smoke and mirrors tactics.

OK, so all political parties do it; I don't dispute that. Nor do I think that the change in housing benefit should not be open to challenge, and some perfectly valid points have been made in this discussion and I don't necessarily disagree with them.

I'm particularly uncomfortable, for instance, with the possible penalisation of someone who has a genuine disability, either physical or mental, and needs the use of an otherwise empty room for equipment or for periodic use by a carer or relative. I would imagine that safeguards exist for such eventuality, but I may be wrong; I don't know enough about the minutiae of the rules.

Equally, I don't see why taxpayers should be obliged to pay tenants for the luxury of occupying in particular publicly-owned properties which have more bedrooms than they need, even if they want them.

I have to admit to knowing zilch about how tax credits work and I have to confess that I'm too lazy to Google it up because I don't have any particular interest in it. Presumably it means that a taxpayer is "credited" with a certain amount under particular personal circumstances, thereby reducing his total tax bill.

I tend to suspect that it was all part of Gordon Brown's policy of creating a client, Labour-beholden electorate...but I'm sure that Irn Bru will soon challenge that suspicion.

However, interesting though all this may be, I have to get ready to go to the funeral of yet another friend...one of the definite disadvantages of being old.

Fred Moletrousers wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I call it that for ease of reference. I sometimes use inverted commas but other times I can't be bothered.   

What about tax credits? Are they called that because they take tax from some people and give it to others?

Ah, but you're not a Labour politician, a left wing newspaper or a trade union conducting a campaign against a change in housing benefit by brainwashing people into calling it a tax and, more importantly, into believing that it is a tax.

It isn't...it's a reduction in the amount of money that a claimant receives, not an increase in what he pays out.

Of course people now routinely call it "bedroom tax" - because they have been programmed into thinking that's what it is. Labour managed to brainwash people into calling community charge "poll tax" by using the same smoke and mirrors tactics.

OK, so all political parties do it; I don't dispute that. Nor do I think that the change in housing benefit should not be open to challenge, and some perfectly valid points have been made in this discussion and I don't necessarily disagree with them.

I'm particularly uncomfortable, for instance, with the possible penalisation of someone who has a genuine disability, either physical or mental, and needs the use of an otherwise empty room for equipment or for periodic use by a carer or relative.  I would imagine that safeguards exist for such eventuality, but I may be wrong; I don't know enough about the minutiae of the rules.

Equally, I don't see why taxpayers should be obliged to pay tenants for the luxury of occupying  in particular publicly-owned properties which have more bedrooms than they need, even if they want them.

I have to admit to knowing zilch about how tax credits work and I have to confess that I'm too lazy to Google it up because I don't have any particular interest in it. Presumably it means that a taxpayer is "credited" with a certain amount under particular personal circumstances, thereby reducing his total tax bill.

I tend to suspect that it was all part of Gordon Brown's policy of creating a client, Labour-beholden electorate...but I'm sure that Irn Bru will soon challenge that suspicion.

However, interesting though all this may be, I have to get ready to go to the funeral of yet another friend...one of the definite disadvantages of being old.

I agree with what you've said about the disabled, and what you've said generally.

Re what I call it, I can't start calling it something else - there would be too much confusion.  

Re tax credits, I think that people can get them whether they pay tax or not, so it doesn't necessarily reduce their tax bill. However, that's a bit off topic so I'll leave it there.  

Sorry to hear about your friend.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Maine coon lover wrote:

I know you have   I think the main reason there is so much of an uproar over the bedroom tax is that with its just caused more hardship for the poor , I cant imagine how they cope on low incomes I know one family who sit in the cold all day and only put the heating at night because they just cant afford to stay warm . I know people who are working and have a low income who cant afford to keep warm because the cost of living is so expensive   

Yes, but there seems to be an assumption that poor people only live in social housing. They don't - as someone pointed out there aren't enough to go around, so there are many poor people who don't get the same sympathy as social housing tenants.

I think the bedroom tax is partly an attempt to make things more equitable for everyone so that council tenants are not seen to be getting more privileges than anyone else.

...it's not a matte pr of sympathy,mots a matter of a severe shortage in council housing stock.

Beekeeper wrote: 

WHY do I get this strong feeling that  "Ragamuffin"  doesn't actually live in Britain...

But is actually writing from somewhere abroad ??

As  (s)he   does seem to be somewhat quite ignorant of the conditions over there !

She is very anti-LW but does post form the UK as far as I know.