Courts take obese girl away from her mother.

Is this the nanny state going much too far, or are the courts right to take the child away from her mother because she is too fat? 

"An obese 12-year-old girl has been taken from her mother after doctors found her BMI is at a 'dangerously high level'. 

The child, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was taken into foster care when medical and social staff started to fear for her safety. 

Her mother could lose custody of her after the local council took out legal action against her.  

Details of the case have emerged in a ruling by Judge Clifford Bellamy, who discussed preliminary issues at a private family court hearing. 
Judge Bellamy, who is based in Leicester, said no-one involved in the case could be identified, and the exact weight of the youngster remains unknown. 

He explained that a doctor had examined the girl a few months ago and concluded her body mass index was at a 'dangerously high level'. 

She has been taken into care, while decisions about her long-term future are in the hands of social services. 

The judge said medical experts will give evidence on the state of her health at a later hearing."



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5286909/UK-obese-girl-12-taken-mother-dangerous-BMI.html

Syl wrote:Is this the nanny state going much too far, or are the courts right to take the child away from her mother because she is too fat? 

"An obese 12-year-old girl has been taken from her mother after doctors found her BMI is at a 'dangerously high level'. 

The child, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was taken into foster care when medical and social staff started to fear for her safety. 

Her mother could lose custody of her after the local council took out legal action against her.  

Details of the case have emerged in a ruling by Judge Clifford Bellamy, who discussed preliminary issues at a private family court hearing. 
Judge Bellamy, who is based in Leicester, said no-one involved in the case could be identified, and the exact weight of the youngster remains unknown. 

He explained that a doctor had examined the girl a few months ago and concluded her body mass index was at a 'dangerously high level'. 

She has been taken into care, while decisions about her long-term future are in the hands of social services. 

The judge said medical experts will give evidence on the state of her health at a later hearing."



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5286909/UK-obese-girl-12-taken-mother-dangerous-BMI.html

Yes. It infuriates me when people don't feed their kids good food, and feed them junk.

But this is down to behavior. It would be different if the mother was feeding the child something that is not designed for human consumption.

The family should be given every help..(maybe they have been) but to actually remove the child from the family home, fostered out and the mother losing custody,  seems very extreme imo.

Syl wrote:The family should be given every help..(maybe they have been) but to actually remove the child from the family home, fostered out and the mother losing custody,  seems very extreme imo.

Yup, unless the mother has some sort of mental issues, but if that's the case, state that as a reason, not feeding your child an unhealthy diet.

There has got to be more to this. Perhaps the girl has a physical illness and the mother is slowly killing her?

Cass wrote:There has got to be more to this. Perhaps the girl has a physical illness and the mother is slowly killing her?

It's 2018.

While there might be more to this, I have no problems believing there is no more to this than "the government knows best".

Lenin is smiling up from hell.

Cass wrote:There has got to be more to this. Perhaps the girl has a physical illness and the mother is slowly killing her?

In cases like this so little info is reported, obviously the child must be protected, but I think the lack of detail is often  to protect social services and the decisions they make  rather than to protect the family.

This is a sign of the times sadly..

"More than one in five children are overweight or obese when they begin primary school, rising to one in three by the time they finish, according ot the Health and Social Care Information Centre."

Taking a child away from their parents because they're overweight is wrong.

I'm so fed up with this nanny state we live in

magica wrote:Taking a child away from their parents because they're overweight is wrong.

I'm so fed up with this nanny state we live in

It's for your own good. They know what's best.

If a child was being grossly underfed by parent/s... would you agree that child should be taken into care...?


So... surley it is the same for one being grossly overfed...?

There are sporadic cases of this happening.  4 years ago  parents were actually ARRESTED for cruelty, for overfeeding their child. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/06/police-defend-arrest-parents-obese-boy-suspicion-neglect


I also saw another link where 8 years ago this scenario was being discussed.


Taking this drastic step means the medics have already tried to work with the mum, and got nowhere.

It's not just one person's decision, a multidisciplinary team consisting of paediatrician, GP, nutritionist and social worker decides. A high court judge gets involved if there's an appeal.

The way I see it:

Overfeeding combined with inadequate exercise leads to vessels being clogged up and serious life long health problems. 

Anyone would be aggrieved if someone deliberately blocked their kitchen or bathroom pipes. So why is it OK for parents serve up diets which block up the blood vessels of their kids?

Its not only overfeeding imo, its the junk thats being served up....plus the fact kids obviouly dont play out like they used to.
Schools dont push sports like they used to, parents allow kids to slump in front of play stations for hours.

Many kids dont even eat proper meals anymore....they graze on processed snacks, fizzy drinks, fast food, in other words...crap.

Yes it's invariably a substandard diet full of all the wrong things.
Literally storing up trouble for later on.
Sad really.

Good to see the usual "anti-authoritarian" elements on here jumping staight into defending an abusive and arrogant mother against the wicked "nanny state" overlords and those over-bearing courts...

Never mind that the mother was apparently leading her child to an early grave..

Seeing a court take a child into fostercare for her own welfare and well-being is surely the final step -- do the anti-"do gooder"/anti-pc brigade and 'Libertarians' on here really expect the rest of us to believe that no previous steps were taken to help this family ?

This isn't 19th century Britain where British authorities were taking native children from the families, and "rescuing" them into forced servitude with white settlers; nor WWII England, where authorities openly stole thousands of children, and shipped them out to former colonies..

Jules wrote:There are sporadic cases of this happening.  4 years ago  parents were actually ARRESTED for cruelty, for overfeeding their child. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/06/police-defend-arrest-parents-obese-boy-suspicion-neglect


I also saw another link where 8 years ago this scenario was being discussed.


Taking this drastic step means the medics have already tried to work with the mum, and got nowhere.

It's not just one person's decision, a multidisciplinary team consisting of paediatrician, GP, nutritionist and social worker decides. A high court judge gets involved if there's an appeal.

I agree. It wasn’t a snap decision. There is more backstory that’s being withheld due to privacy issues.

Cass wrote:There has got to be more to this. Perhaps the girl has a physical illness and the mother is slowly killing her?

Alright lets look at this.

How is the mother really at fault.

I doubt her mother wants to see her ill here

What good here is being done by taking her away from her family?

If she is overweight and a problem eating, then it should be treated as a medical condition, that requires medical support.

To take her away from her family is wrong, what she needs is support, not making the matter worse

What is being done here is to cast the mother as criminal, when there could be a multitude of factors here

I think the reality here is that people are not understanding how some  parents will do anything for their children. What the family needs is help, not seperation as that is only going to lead to many more problems

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:There has got to be more to this. Perhaps the girl has a physical illness and the mother is slowly killing her?

Alright lets look at this.

How is the mother really at fault.

I doubt her mother wants to see her ill here

What good here is being done by taking her away from her family?

If she is overweight and a problem eating, then it should be treated as a medical condition, that requires medical support.

To take her away from her family is wrong, what she needs is support, not making the matter worse

What is being done here is to cast the mother as criminal, when there could be a multitude of factors here

I think the reality here is that people are not understanding how some  parents will do anything for their children. What the family needs is help, not seperation as that is only going to lead to many more problems

The problem is it’s all speculation really as no more will be released to protect the child, but like I said, it wasn’t a snap decision. As a result it’s probably been a ongoing issue and maybe it’s reached a critical life or death situation. There’s also nothing to indicate that the mother cannot see her child.

Cass wrote:

Didge wrote:


Alright lets look at this.

How is the mother really at fault.

I doubt her mother wants to see her ill here

What good here is being done by taking her away from her family?

If she is overweight and a problem eating, then it should be treated as a medical condition, that requires medical support.

To take her away from her family is wrong, what she needs is support, not making the matter worse

What is being done here is to cast the mother as criminal, when there could be a multitude of factors here

I think the reality here is that people are not understanding how some  parents will do anything for their children. What the family needs is help, not seperation as that is only going to lead to many more problems

The problem is it’s all speculation really as no more will be released to protect the child, but like I said, it wasn’t a snap decision. As a result it’s probably been a ongoing issue and maybe it’s reached a critical life or death situation. There’s also nothing to indicate that the mother cannot see her child. 

Blamed the mother

Lets take a reality check, the BMI  calculation is a crock of shit Cass

What is important is whether someone has a heart condition

And yes we are speculating, but the point is here, and no we have one GP view that its believed to be critical

Did the child need life support?

That is critical

Was this a perceived fear?

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:

The problem is it’s all speculation really as no more will be released to protect the child, but like I said, it wasn’t a snap decision. As a result it’s probably been a ongoing issue and maybe it’s reached a critical life or death situation. There’s also nothing to indicate that the mother cannot see her child. 

And what have people done here?

Blamed the mother

Lets take a reality check, the BMI  calculation is a crock of shit Cass

What is important is whether someone has a heart condition

And yes we are speculating, but the point is here, and no we have one GP view that its believed to be critical

Did the child need life support?

That is critical

Was this a perceived fear?

I haven’t blamed the mother, just offered reasons as to maybe why this has happened.

Whatever is the reason, I hope the child is ok and gets better.

Cass wrote:

Didge wrote:

And what have people done here?

Blamed the mother

Lets take a reality check, the BMI  calculation is a crock of shit Cass

What is important is whether someone has a heart condition

And yes we are speculating, but the point is here, and no we have one GP view that its believed to be critical

Did the child need life support?

That is critical

Was this a perceived fear?

I haven’t blamed the mother, just offered reasons as to maybe why this has happened.

Whatever is the reason, I hope the child is ok and gets better.

No, you have taken the view she is to blame, based off the story

We have no idea and yet many have presummed

My view is this, no matter how this child has come to be in danger, is it really sensible to place her in care if she has a medical condition or should she be admitted to hospital?

Cass wrote:There has got to be more to this. Perhaps the girl has a physical illness and the mother is slowly killing her?

That is blaming and accusing the mother

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:There has got to be more to this. Perhaps the girl has a physical illness and the mother is slowly killing her?

That is blaming and accusing the mother

I said perhaps. Which means offering a reason and/or opinion as to why this happened. I did not say stupid cow killing her child. She deserves this. It’s all her fault.

See the difference?

Night Didge

Cass wrote:

Didge wrote:


That is blaming and accusing the mother

I said perhaps. Which means offering a reason and/or opinion as to why this happened. I did not say stupid cow killing her child. She deserves this. It’s all her fault.

See the difference?

Night Didge

Come on, lets be honest you have presummed the mother was killing her, hence why even say that?

Why do you always do this, if I pull you up on poor views made?

Look the mother could be at fault, I do not deny this, but what I always see happen is an immediate presumption of guilt to the parents

Night cass

I presume the mother was feeding the child. So who is to blame for the child being obese?

Obviously the mother is at fault if she was the one who was parenting the child, there is no mention of a father.
I doubt she deliberately wanted to make her child unhealthy, maybe she was slowly killing her with kindness, allowing all the wrong foods because to many people the wrong foods always taste the best.

I know a parent like this one....and all of us see fat kids waddling home to slouch in their rooms instead of playing out using up energy.
I know parents who encourage this because they believe their child is safe where they can see them.

Another point, there is so much sugar hidden in the foods we buy, many people don't even realise they are eating so unhealthily.

There's always been fat kids who grow into fat people, some get health problems and die young others don't. When I grew up the nearest you had to fast food was fish and chips, we played outside almost all our free time and there were still fat kids, our diets would make a dietician weep these days.
One woman I know was told to loose weight because of high cholestrol, she actually lost so much weight the gp told her to stop and yet her cholestrol was still sky high. You can't take genes out of the equation, although I realise the fast food and sitting at home culture we have now doesn't help.

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:

I said perhaps. Which means offering a reason and/or opinion as to why this happened. I did not say stupid cow killing her child. She deserves this. It’s all her fault.

See the difference?

Night Didge

Come on, lets be honest you have presummed the mother was killing her, hence why even say that?

Why do you always do this, if I pull you up on poor views made?

Look the mother could be at fault, I do not deny this, but what I always see happen is an immediate presumption of guilt to the parents

Night cass

Why do I always do what exactly?

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:

I said perhaps. Which means offering a reason and/or opinion as to why this happened. I did not say stupid cow killing her child. She deserves this. It’s all her fault.

See the difference?

Night Didge

Come on, lets be honest you have presummed the mother was killing her, hence why even say that?

Why do you always do this, if I pull you up on poor views made?

Look the mother could be at fault, I do not deny this, but what I always see happen is an immediate presumption of guilt to the parents

Night cass

well, who else didge? she is 12 years old.

when I was 12 I ate what I was given which was pretty much always meat and vegetables or fish. Granted it wasn't always the best and many a time I was glad we had a dog but also weren't allowed to watch tv for hours we were out and about and had exercise etc.

this child would not have been taken into care until it became a last resort. it's all very well folks saying ''the family need help'' but they would already have had a shit load of advice and help and support and guidance etc etc. if nothing is working and the child is suffering and in danger then what choice?

gelico wrote:

Didge wrote:

Come on, lets be honest you have presummed the mother was killing her, hence why even say that?

Why do you always do this, if I pull you up on poor views made?

Look the mother could be at fault, I do not deny this, but what I always see happen is an immediate presumption of guilt to the parents

Night cass

well, who else didge?  she is 12 years old.

when I was 12 I ate what I was given which was pretty much always meat and vegetables or fish.   Granted it wasn't always the best and many a time I was glad we had a dog but also weren't allowed to watch tv for hours we were out and about and had exercise etc.

this child would not have been taken into care until it became a last resort.  it's all very well folks saying ''the family need help'' but they would already have had a shit load of advice and help and support and guidance etc etc.  if nothing is working and the child is suffering and in danger then what choice?

I wish I could believe that a child would only be taken away as a last result.  There are families here that have been separated from children  because of overzealous investigators and judges.

HOUSTON - Two years ago CPS removed this 3-year-old girl from her father.

The father apparently did everything CPS wanted and associate family court Judge Paula Vlahakos thought the child would be returned home.

But after the judge noticed the foster parents had filed a custody intervention she began investigating the case.

That prompted the judge to appoint Dennis Slate to represent the girl’s father.

“It was very clear early on CPS had taken this child without a court order and had done so in a way that wasn’t even following the law that allows them to do that,” Slate said.

That prompted Slate to file a motion for sanctions against Child Protective Services.

“They were looking for any reason to avoid those sanctions,” said Slate.

CPS even tried to dismiss the suit but Judge Vlahakos found the state agency had acted in bad faith when they removed the little girl.

“There wasn’t a reason at all for them to come and do a removal without a court order on a Friday night when this little girl was asleep,” Slate said.





Never assume that the state has a good reason for doing what it's doing.

Yeah and I could find hundreds to support taking away a child in dire circumstances. They don’t just drop in for the hell of it and decide to mess up people’s lives.

In the story you posted, there were issues apparently otherwise why were foster parents involved? Again not enough backstory as to why this happened.

Bad stuff happens in all areas when things are run by humans, because they’re humans and not robots.

I just can’t imagine living my life being suspicious of everybody and their intent.

Cass wrote:Yeah and I could find hundreds to support taking away a child in dire circumstances. They don’t just drop in for the hell of it and decide to mess up people’s lives.

In the story you posted, there were issues apparently otherwise why were foster parents involved? Again not enough backstory as to why this happened.

Bad stuff happens in all areas when things are run by humans, because they’re humans and not robots.

I just can’t imagine living my life being suspicious of everybody and their intent.

I would say be vigilant. Never assume that because the cops are harassing someone, that that someone is guilty. Look at the people we have freed from death row. Government needs to be watched like a hawk to make sure it's truly serving those it's supposed to be.

That's why saying something like "Well, this had to be the last resort" is a little dangerous. There are enough cases where government makes the lives of the innocent a living hell to be skeptical.

Vintage wrote:There's always been fat kids who grow into fat people, some get health problems and die young others don't. When I grew up the nearest you had to fast food was fish and chips, we played outside almost all our free time and there were still fat kids, our diets would make a dietician weep these days.
One woman I know was told to loose weight because of high cholestrol, she actually lost so much weight the gp told her to stop and yet her cholestrol was still sky high. You can't take genes out of the equation, although I realise the fast food and sitting at home culture we have now doesn't help.

Its true that fat kids very often grow into fat adults and have a lifelong battle with their weight.

Growing up in the 50's and 60's obesity was a problem most didn't suffer from. I can recall only ONE fat girl at the senior school I went to...the rest were either skinny or of normal weight.

Eating habits have changed so much over the last few decades. Even sitting down at a table having a family dinner isn't the norm in many households now...its a shame.

Cass wrote:

Didge wrote:

Come on, lets be honest you have presummed the mother was killing her, hence why even say that?

Why do you always do this, if I pull you up on poor views made?

Look the mother could be at fault, I do not deny this, but what I always see happen is an immediate presumption of guilt to the parents

Night cass

Why do I always do what exactly?

Become overly defensive

gelico wrote:

Didge wrote:

Come on, lets be honest you have presummed the mother was killing her, hence why even say that?

Why do you always do this, if I pull you up on poor views made?

Look the mother could be at fault, I do not deny this, but what I always see happen is an immediate presumption of guilt to the parents

Night cass

well, who else didge?  she is 12 years old.

when I was 12 I ate what I was given which was pretty much always meat and vegetables or fish.   Granted it wasn't always the best and many a time I was glad we had a dog but also weren't allowed to watch tv for hours we were out and about and had exercise etc.

this child would not have been taken into care until it became a last resort.  it's all very well folks saying ''the family need help'' but they would already have had a shit load of advice and help and support and guidance etc etc.  if nothing is working and the child is suffering and in danger then what choice?

Again I am not saying one way or another on blame here, but on whether taking the child away from the mother is good or bad here.

If the child needs medical help, does this then mean, we now take many children into care, say if they smoke or drink, which are both fundementally dangereous are they not?

So the family needs support, help and a way to combat these obesity problem

What mentallly is this going to do to the child? You may combat her obesity, but how will you combat the loss of her family mentally?

So the question to ask, is why can she not still remain with her family whilst having help with her obesity?

Maddog wrote:

gelico wrote:

well, who else didge?  she is 12 years old.

when I was 12 I ate what I was given which was pretty much always meat and vegetables or fish.   Granted it wasn't always the best and many a time I was glad we had a dog but also weren't allowed to watch tv for hours we were out and about and had exercise etc.

this child would not have been taken into care until it became a last resort.  it's all very well folks saying ''the family need help'' but they would already have had a shit load of advice and help and support and guidance etc etc.  if nothing is working and the child is suffering and in danger then what choice?

I wish I could believe that a child would only be taken away as a last result.  There are families here that have been separated from children  because of overzealous investigators and judges.

Nail on the head.

You exactly see the problems here.

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:

Why do I always do what exactly?

Become overly defensive

I didn’t think I was. Just pointing out how I meant the context of my words.

Cass wrote:

Didge wrote:


Become overly defensive

I didn’t think I was. Just pointing out how I meant the context of my words.

I get that, but you were still very defensive Cass

Didge wrote:

Cass wrote:

I didn’t think I was. Just pointing out how I meant the context of my words.

I get that, but you were still very defensive Cass

Well I wasn’t.

Cass wrote:

Didge wrote:


I get that, but you were still very defensive Cass

Well I wasn’t.

Again defensive

And again not knocking you

Maddog wrote:

Syl wrote:Is this the nanny state going much too far, or are the courts right to take the child away from her mother because she is too fat? 

"An obese 12-year-old girl has been taken from her mother after doctors found her BMI is at a 'dangerously high level'. 

The child, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was taken into foster care when medical and social staff started to fear for her safety. 

Her mother could lose custody of her after the local council took out legal action against her.  

Details of the case have emerged in a ruling by Judge Clifford Bellamy, who discussed preliminary issues at a private family court hearing. 
Judge Bellamy, who is based in Leicester, said no-one involved in the case could be identified, and the exact weight of the youngster remains unknown. 

He explained that a doctor had examined the girl a few months ago and concluded her body mass index was at a 'dangerously high level'. 

She has been taken into care, while decisions about her long-term future are in the hands of social services. 

The judge said medical experts will give evidence on the state of her health at a later hearing."



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5286909/UK-obese-girl-12-taken-mother-dangerous-BMI.html

Yes. It infuriates me when people don't feed their kids good food, and feed them junk.

But this is down to behavior. It would be different if the mother was feeding the child something that is not designed for human consumption.

Yeah, Fairmount, sometimes the state has to step in because we can't all be as enlightened as y'all down around Magnolia

If this child eats for comfort then she’s going to eat more now that she’s separated from her own mother.
Do they need outside help at managing the situation? Sure they do, but not separation, that’s just fucked up.

The shit she fed her daughter is readily available and advertised - I say if you want to blame someone blame the greedy fucking companies and the people in charge for mass-producing the shit that they love us to buy.

Now often do you see “vegetable” adverts on TV?
How cheap is junk food compared to buying fruit?

Pisses me off.

If the main issue is the girls weight I agree that taking her away from her mum is wrong, cruel really.

It amazes me when people say they cant afford to eat healthy foods...what they mean is they cant be bothered to cook.
A roast dinner or a stew, a casserole filled with fresh veg and potatoes, fresh pasta dishes, stocking up on fruit and veg...its all cheaper than ready meals and snacks, it just takes a bit more effort to serve.

eddie wrote:If this child eats for comfort then she’s going to eat more now that she’s separated from her own mother.
Do they need outside help at managing the situation? Sure they do, but not separation, that’s just fucked up.

The shit she fed her daughter is readily available and advertised - I say if you want to blame someone blame the greedy fucking companies and the people in charge for mass-producing the shit that they love us to buy.

Now often do you see “vegetable” adverts on TV?
How cheap is junk food compared to buying fruit?

Pisses me off.

+1

Syl wrote:If the main issue is the girls weight I agree that taking her away from her mum is wrong, cruel really.

It amazes me when people say they cant afford to eat healthy foods...what they mean is they cant be bothered to cook.
A roast dinner or a stew, a casserole filled with fresh veg and potatoes, fresh pasta dishes, stocking up on fruit and veg...its all cheaper than ready meals and snacks, it just takes a bit more effort to serve.

Education is the key here and that is what is severely lacking here.

Again I expect the mother saw no wromg or any dangers here, but to take away the child is pure idiocy. What is needed is the mother needs to understand the dangers here.

Didge wrote:

Syl wrote:If the main issue is the girls weight I agree that taking her away from her mum is wrong, cruel really.

It amazes me when people say they cant afford to eat healthy foods...what they mean is they cant be bothered to cook.
A roast dinner or a stew, a casserole filled with fresh veg and potatoes, fresh pasta dishes, stocking up on fruit and veg...its all cheaper than ready meals and snacks, it just takes a bit more effort to serve.

Education is the key here and that is what is severely lacking here.

Again I expect the mother saw no wromg or any dangers here, but to take away the child is pure idiocy. What is needed is the mother needs to understand the dangers here.

Exactly that, and if she has been given help in educating her and refuses to follow advice, perhaps having a carer to food shop for them, and go into the home at meal times would have been a better option (and a cheaper one) than taking the child away and putting her into care.
I think actually splitting the mum and daughter up should be absolutely the last resort.

Syl wrote:

Didge wrote:


Education is the key here and that is what is severely lacking here.

Again I expect the mother saw no wromg or any dangers here, but to take away the child is pure idiocy. What is needed is the mother needs to understand the dangers here.

Exactly that, and if she has been given help in educating her and refuses to follow advice, perhaps having a carer to food shop for them, and go into the home at meal times would have been a better option (and a cheaper one) than taking the child away and putting her into care.
I think actually splitting the mum and daughter up should be absolutely the last resort.

100% agree