sleep

Does anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep. I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help, last night was the worst ever, went to bed at 11pm, still awake at 3 am. Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am, still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

Read every post by Didge?

Angry Andy wrote:Read every post by Didge?

So reading in general then?

Which many people do, to help get them off to sleep.

So why has reading my posts not helped you sleep daily, when you continually read and respond to them. When you are online. After reading them?

Glad to know my posts can be marketed now, as a cure for insomnia.

I shall now sit back and revel at how poorly you will attempt to find an intellectual reply to your contradiction.

Enjoy

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

I have nights like that, where sleep just eludes me and the night seems endless, oddly I don't feel tired the next day.

Maybe you just don't need the sleep Nicko, so just relax and accept you wont sleep.
Read a book, turn a radio on if you aren't disturbing anyone, or just enjoy the comfort of your bed and rest.
And be thankful you don't have to get up early to go to work anymore.

Angry Andy wrote:Read every post by Didge?

Alternatively he could count how many times you mention Major S or Flap in your posts....better than counting sheep.

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

Have you tried reading quills or didges posts??

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

Have you tried having a warm bath?
Reading a book will sharpen your mind hence it won’t put you to sleep.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

Have you tried having a warm bath?
Reading a book will sharpen your mind  hence it won’t put you to sleep.

unless its the qur'an and then its a real snoozefest

smelly-bandit wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

Have you tried having a warm bath?
Reading a book will sharpen your mind  hence it won’t put you to sleep.

unless its the qur'an and then its a real snoozefest

You naughty attack helicopter, you.

Nicko, I suffer insomnia at times too - as well as sleeping all the time - I don't seem to have a middle ground.

My advice is not to lie there wide awake. You're better off just getting up. I've noticed that I actually fare better on less hours than more.

When I was in Texas Ben and I were literally getting four hours sleep a night for eight nights. We never really felt tired either. So perhaps "needing 8 hours a night" is just a phallacy.

Nicko would be quite happy with a phallacy

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

I know if I drink too much, I don't sleep well. I wake up after about 3-4 hours and cant sleep.

I think it's just a curse of getting older. Your brain engages when you stop doing things and lie down. You start thinking about "life".

seriously Nicko...get down to your pharmacy or a GOOD herbalist and get some valerian

read here.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valerian_(herb)
and here.... https://www.healthline.com/health/food-nutrition/valerian-root#safety

seems it works for some but not others...worth a try and fairly safe...though consult your doc about interactions with your current meds THATS A MUST DO>

Drinking is bad for sleep,  When you intake, it gives you the exuberance and lack of inhibition, but your body goes through the precise reverse process--depression and despondency--at about 3 or 4 in the morning.  It's almost a mirror inverse reflection of the high.  Just as the intake makes you groggy and sleepy, the depression wakens you and keeps you awake until it wears out.

Detox your body if you are used to drinking before bedtime.

Get some good weed.

Have asked about this, unfortunately I have to take Warfarin, and taking this rules out lots of other medicines.
Eddie, tried weed, gave me one hell of an headache !

Original Quill wrote:Drinking is bad for sleep,  When you intake, it gives you the exuberance and lack of inhibition, but your body goes through the precise reverse process--depression and despondency--at about 3 or 4 in the morning.  It's almost a mirror inverse reflection of the high.  Just as the intake makes you groggy and sleepy, the depression wakens you and keeps you awake until it wears out.

Detox your body if you are used to drinking before bedtime.

Well it makes you fall asleep - it is a sedative and anaesthetic after all - but it's not a restful sleep, it's technically a sort of 'loss of consciousness'   whilst your liver works frantically to remove it from your system - cos alcohol is regarded as a chemical poison by the human body, even one drop of it!

Moreover it's usually a short 'sleep'. No where near long enough for what the body needs. So ... poor quality & quantity of sleep.

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

Nicko  tea, chocolate and coffee all contain at least 2 stimulants (they ALL contain caffeine and theobromine) which keep people awake. Tho of course it depends on the person.

So if you crave a hot drink at night, might be worth drinking just milk or a (non-chocolate) malted drink, instead. Both are good sleep-inducing sedatives.

Another thing - be sure to take adequate exercise during the day. If your body is not tired it won't feel sleepy.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

Have you tried having a warm bath?



Reading a book will sharpen your mind  hence it won’t put you to sleep.

But at least reading gives the insomniac something to do. It's a good alternative to staring pointlessly at the ceiling and it fills up empty hours.

On the few occasions when I have insomnia,  I read a book or attempt a difficult puzzle or quiz.  I always fall sleep halfway thru.

When it hits me, I Try Melatonin (natural remedy). Try 5mg first then go up if needed, camomile tea, and some lavender oil on a tissue stuffed in your pillow.

Nicko, some of the medication you're on might be affecting your sleep. Have you asked your doctor?

eddie wrote:Nicko, some of the medication you're on might be affecting your sleep. Have you asked your doctor?

Excellent suggestion.

Cass wrote:

eddie wrote:Nicko, some of the medication you're on might be affecting your sleep. Have you asked your doctor?

Excellent suggestion.

Yeah. Sometimes I'm well clever.

Nicko, I 've been struggling with this for some tme. I'.ve never had a problem getting to sleep until I started having to take medication, then it was hell every night now there's another problem and when taking medication for this problem it was back to a good nights sleep. I've now stopped this particular medication to see what happens and its back to tossing and turning and too tired to get up but not able to drop off to sleep. When I eventually get to sleep its only a couple of hours before the alarm goes off and I feel too tired to get up, I'm hoping I get put back on the medication for the latest problem at least I;ll get some sleep. Tried all the suggestions no tv an hour before bedtime, curtains enough to block out any light, bedtime drinks including alcohol, warm baths before bed nothing works except the medication for my wonky thyroid.
I can Sleep for Britain at about 5:30pm. I hope you find a solution.

Cass wrote:When it hits me, I Try Melatonin (natural remedy). Try 5mg first then go up if needed, camomile tea, and some lavender oil on a tissue stuffed in your pillow.

Buying Melatonin in capsule form is basically a waste of money (simply because that's the most expensive way of doing it..).

Melatonin is produced in the brain naturally..

L-Tryptophan is the pre-cursor/trigger for the production on Melatonin.

Buying Tryptophan in capsule form is the pricier way to do it..

The best, cheapest, easiest and most natural way to consume Tryptophan is to have a large glass of milk a half-hour to an hour before bed;  ( don't like milk ? Warm it up and add a teaspoon of honey;  for something stronger, add a nip of rum or brandy, (or whiskey if you must..)).

eddie wrote:

Cass wrote:

Excellent suggestion.

Yeah. Sometimes I'm well clever.

Have a greenie for being so clever...

Jules wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Drinking is bad for sleep,  When you intake, it gives you the exuberance and lack of inhibition, but your body goes through the precise reverse process--depression and despondency--at about 3 or 4 in the morning.  It's almost a mirror inverse reflection of the high.  Just as the intake makes you groggy and sleepy, the depression wakens you and keeps you awake until it wears out.

Detox your body if you are used to drinking before bedtime.

Well it makes you fall asleep - it is a sedative and anaesthetic after all - but it's not a restful sleep, it's technically a sort of 'loss of consciousness'   whilst your liver works frantically to remove it from your system - cos alcohol is regarded as a chemical poison by the human body, even one drop of it!

Moreover it's usually a short 'sleep'. No where near long enough for what the body needs. So ... poor quality & quantity of sleep.

I think that's the point. Passing out is not sleep. Moreover, it must be compensated for by bending the curve the other way: for every high, their is compensating low.

Actually, alcohol is a depressant. But it's the type of sleep that it puts you in. It is not a REM, or restorative sleep. As WEB MD notes:

WEB MD wrote:“Alcohol may seem to be helping you to sleep, as it helps induce sleep, but overall it is more disruptive to sleep, particularly in the second half of the night,” says researcher Irshaad Ebrahim. He is the medical director at The London Sleep Centre in the U.K. “Alcohol also suppresses breathing and can precipitate sleep apnea,” or pauses in breathing that happen throughout the night.

I was thinking about writing this out last night,  and fell asleep in the process...

I will be sure to be repeating things that others have written before me in the meantime, but I'm not going to read back through them, just so I can edit this down.. So my apologies if it appears I've poached anybody else's suggestions..

What I am doing here, is simply collecting together a few tips that I've picked up over the decades.


*  Try to go to bed at the same time each night;  if you know roughly how much sleep you normally need (as opposed to simply how much you might think you want --  most people don't need "8 hours" of solid sleep --  most need somewhere between 6 and 8 hours, some only need 4, while a small minority need 9 or 10..) --  count back 7 or 8 hours from when you want to wake up..

*  Don't have television, bright lights or any stimulating/enervating items (e.g. computer, tablet, smartphone..) in the bedroom;  don't have pop, rock or jazz music playing for that couple of hours before bed - - but stick to softer and calming classical, country or folk..

*  Try and see if you can avoid any dust, moulds or contaminants in the bedroom;   Some suggest that you shouldn't store a lot of books in a bedroom (though that can't be avoided in some situations..);;  others state that bedrooms "only have two purposes (i.e. sleep and sex..).


*  Plan on having your tea/dinner 4 or 5 hours before bedtime, with no food consumed for a couple of hours before trying to sleep --  basically so you're not going to bed on a full stomach..

*  Don't drink any tea, coffee, cola drinks, energy drinks, beer, wine, cider, in that 2--4 hour window (as they all work against giving a 'good' nights sleep..)

* Only drink water or milk in those few hours before bed --  if you find it hard to stomach a straight glass of water at nighttime, you could add a few drops of lemon, lime or orange juice to take the edge off it;  a teaspoonful of honey if you want to sweeten it;  and what may also often help here, is to add a tablespoon or two of natural apple cider vinegar to the water, as well..

* As I mentioned in my earlier post,  a large glass of milk an hour before bedtime is the most effective way of encouraging the production of melatonin in the body.


*  While on the subject of melatonin production --  are you getting 10--20 minutes exposure to sunlight/natural daylight each day ?  As well as helping with melatonin production,  that also keeps up the vitamin D levels..   Sitting outside for 15--20 minutes of a morning or/and afterrnoon, can do wonders for re-setting your bodyclock...  SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) is a real thing..

http://rmhealthy.com/10-symptoms-seasonal-affective-disorder/?

http://www.activebeat.co/diet-nutrition/10-lifestyle-methods-to-cope-with-seasonal-affective-disorder/?

*  Some people will suggest a couple of beers or a couple of glasses of wine will help them sleep --  but the simple fact there (apart from overloading the liver..), is that drinking beer, wine, fruit juice, soft drinks or energy drinks, will all see you getting up at 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning for a leak  --  if you want a glass of beer or wine, than confine that to late afternoon/early evening.

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

This kind of thing happens when you're stressed.    And the more you try to go back to sleep the worse it is.   Best bet is to try and cat nap during the day if you feel tired.   Booze often helps you sleep initially but actually will work against sleep in the long run.    I have many clients who suffer with insomnia and they find Reiki helps, as it works by calming down and relaxing your mind and emotions.   When my poor old dog was near his end he couldn't settle at night, and Reiki was the only thing that calmed him and helped him sleep.

Failing that,  try some meditation, don't go on the computer late at night, as the light from the screens can interfere with sleep.  It's more about relaxing your mind and any worries you might have.   Stress is often low key, with no apparent signs.   But it manifests in many ways in our physical.

They say Lavender oil helps to aid sleep, you might try a few drops on your pillow.

In the rare times I can't sleep it's usually been because I either have worries, stress, or my mind is too active.

Good point about the medication though.   Could be that that's causing the problem if you've ruled out all others.   But then the doctor is more likely to give you more drugs to help you sleep, rather than taking you off or changing the offending medication.  It's a bit of a hamster wheel, and you sound like you'd rather try natural remedies.

nicko wrote:Does   anyone know how to get to sleep without the aid of Sleeping Pills or Booze?

For weeks now i'v laid awake to 3 or 4 in the Morning and then woke up after about 2 hours sleep.     I'v Tried reading a book, but it doesn't help,    last night was the worst ever,   went to bed at 11pm,  still awake at 3 am.  Got up, had a cup of Tea,went back to bed at 4 am,  still awake at 5.30 so got up and had a cup of tea, and still don't feel tired up to now.............really pissed off with it !

Did you know Nicko, that your body temperature actually has to drop for you to fall asleep?  So it could be something as simple as having the bedroom too hot, or a duvet that keeps your core temperature too high.  I'm not a good sleeper, but I found by changing my duvet to a summer weight one if 3.5 tog my sleep pattern got a lot better.  I also have a V shaped pillow which I  find much more supportive and comfortable and stopped the neck ache I used to wake up with.

Sass, i'v got a 3.5 Duvet, I never feel cold. I'V tried most of the ideas that the Forum have mentioned for witch I thank them all, any type of sedative will send me to sleep for 3 or 4 hours, but when I wake I'm really giddy for hours. I will try the type of pillow you mentioned as I get a stiff neck when I do get up.
Wonder If "Bob Martins" will do any good?

Exercise may help too. I haven't been on the bike much lately and I've noticed I'm not sleeping as well.

One of the worst things about insomnia is that you tend to obsess over sleep. I had to adjust my attitude toward sleep to fight it. It still comes back, but it's not as bad as it used to be. Try not to worry too much about whether you'll fall asleep quickly or not.

If you can exercise and/or keep yourself busy with some kind of project, that can really help. You don't want to relax too much during the day. But there are a lot of things you can do to help get to that point at night:

* Mind your lighting. Don't keep it too bright in the house, especially after the sun has set.

* Get your sleep environment just the way you need it. I prefer it to be pitch black in my bedroom, and I can't abide being too hot or too cold.

* Avoid the bed unless you intend to sleep in it. Your brain will become conditioned to relax when you get in bed.

* Make sure you can breathe easily. Troubled breathing is a great way to stay awake.

* Count your breaths so that your concentration stays on your breathing. It helps quiet your mind, plus it's so boring that it makes it easier to drift off

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

Cass wrote:When it hits me, I Try Melatonin (natural remedy). Try 5mg first then go up if needed, camomile tea, and some lavender oil on a tissue stuffed in your pillow.

Buying Melatonin in capsule form is basically a waste of money (simply because that's the most expensive way of doing it..).

Melatonin is produced in the brain naturally..

L-Tryptophan is the pre-cursor/trigger for the production on Melatonin.

Buying Tryptophan in capsule form is the pricier way to do it..

The best, cheapest, easiest and most natural way to consume Tryptophan is to have a large glass of milk a half-hour to an hour before bed;  ( don't like milk ?  Warm it up and add a teaspoon of honey;  for something stronger, add a nip of rum or brandy, (or whiskey if you must..)).

Speaking of chemicals .... whilst working in the NHS I frequently saw premature babies intravenously drip fed the two chemical stimulants I mentioned [caffeine and theobromine] to make them stay alert and stimulated so that they would continue breathing.

Seemed counterproductive that nicko was drinking these very chemicals in hot beverages whilst trying to fall asleep.

It's hard for anybody to sleep knowing that Donald Trump exists.

Lurker wrote:It's hard for anybody to sleep knowing that Donald Trump exists.

Who was talking about irrational hate on here? Ben someone or another.

+1

Maddog wrote:

Lurker wrote:It's hard for anybody to sleep knowing that Donald Trump exists.

Who was talking about irrational hate on here?  Ben someone or another.

Stop worrying and love the bomb.

Ben is correct, I go to bed thinking " i'm going to lie awake all night again" and I do !

nicko wrote:Ben is correct,  I go to bed thinking  "  i'm going to lie awake all night again"   and I do !

I've actually heard that cognitive behavioral therapy can help with that, it was recommended to me but I was too busy to do it

Lurker wrote:It's hard for anybody to sleep knowing that Donald Trump exists.

It's amazing isn't it, almost like the second coming of jesus.

There's only one way to do it. You have to push all thoughts out of your head. That's why counting sheep works. If you don't do that, you won't sleep very well.

Raggamuffin wrote:There's only one way to do it. You have to push all thoughts out of your head. That's why counting sheep works. If you don't do that, you won't sleep very well.

I actually recite the Lord's Prayer, over and over. I don't believe it's the actual prayer that matters, it's just the only thing that I know, that I can recite over and over. I would imagine a scene from Hamlet would have the same effect.

Maddog wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:There's only one way to do it. You have to push all thoughts out of your head. That's why counting sheep works. If you don't do that, you won't sleep very well.

I actually recite the Lord's Prayer, over and over. I don't believe it's the actual prayer that matters, it's just the only thing that I know, that I can recite over and over. I would imagine a scene from Hamlet would have the same effect.

Kind of like counting breaths, like I was saying, except I left out an important part -- you have to start over once you reach 10! Because just the fact of the number getting higher and higher can make you freaked out that you won't sleep.

Raggamuffin wrote:There's only one way to do it. You have to push all thoughts out of your head. That's why counting sheep works. If you don't do that, you won't sleep very well.

Counting sheep never works for me, it just irritates me. 

Sometimes, imagining the cold wind and pouring rain outside works...I'm all cosy wrapped up in a warm bed...its comforting and relaxing....and with any luck that induces a tired feeling which = sleep....sometimes.

Maddog wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:There's only one way to do it. You have to push all thoughts out of your head. That's why counting sheep works. If you don't do that, you won't sleep very well.

I actually recite the Lord's Prayer, over and over. I don't believe it's the actual prayer that matters, it's just the only thing that I know, that I can recite over and over. I would imagine a scene from Hamlet would have the same effect.

That's right. It's the repetitive nature which drives all other thoughts out of your head.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:There's only one way to do it. You have to push all thoughts out of your head. That's why counting sheep works. If you don't do that, you won't sleep very well.

Counting sheep never works for me, it just irritates me. 

Sometimes, imagining the cold wind and pouring rain outside works...I'm all cosy wrapped up in a warm bed...its comforting and relaxing....and with any luck that induces a tired feeling which = sleep....sometimes.

It doesn't have to be counting sheep specifically.

The point is that people lie there with all kinds of thoughts going on, often of a negative nature, or they think about what they have to do the next day. Therefore, they don't relax properly. It's also helpful to really relax all your muscles properly.

As soon as I lie down my brain goes into overdrive thinking about one thing or another, I just can't stop it !

nicko wrote:As soon as I lie down  my brain goes into overdrive thinking about one thing or another,   I just can't stop it !

There you are then - that's your problem, as I said. You can stop it by thinking about something else which is repetitive - count sheep, count up to 100, go through the alphabet, whatever.