Home Office incompetence.

100 EU nationals written to by the HO to inform them they are being deported.
It was in error.
But it raises some serious points.
The HO has had a 35% cut in staff over the past 7 years, and in most areas is no longer fit for purpose due to staff shortages.
Those that remain have endured a 7 year pay freeze, are demotivated and morale  is at an all time low.
There are compelling reasons why mistskes of this type occur, and these are of a comparatively minor and inconsequential  nature - easily identified  and remedied.
The same Home Office staff are also liable to be allowing (unwittingly) terrorist through canalised ports and airports because of insufficient staff to conduct proper and thorough checks.
The staff cuts are to continue, as is the continuation of the austerity pay freeze, whereby the HO is now finding it impossible to recruit suitable replacements for reirements and resignations due to dismal terms and conditions and dreadful pay.
It will only get worse post Brexit as EVERY foreigner, not just non EU, will require 100% Immigration and Customs controls, as will freight lorries and the freight they carry.
This will come bsck to haunt and hurt May and her austerity led Conservatives.
Home Office blunder sees 100 EU nationals mistakenly told to leave the country

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/home-office-blunder-sees-100-11039948#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

Anyone who defends the Government's position is encouraging terrorism.

Bullshit !

Which in 8 letters proves what a myopic , idiotic ostrich you are.

OH, you can count then? Go back and see how many balls up your lovely Labour party's responsible for.

There we have it everyone. 
Nicko blindly following the policies of this government  which are contributing  to the increase in potential for terrorists and criminals sneaking into Britain undetected.
And he is still blaming a Labour party that hasnt been in office for 7 years.
Labour want to double Border Force staff when they get into power.
Conservatives want to decrease the numbers by 5% each year.

I suspect Nicko's far right , racist chums on Flop will be elated that he is supporting a government policy that is hampering the detection of clandestines with it's austerity and staff cutting meaures.

nicko wrote:
OH, you can count then?  Go back and see how many balls up your lovely Labour party's responsible for.  

Get real,  nicko  !!!

Britain's problems in this regard have their origins way back in the 1980s..
From when Thatcher took charge, and began running your country into the ground

The only 'real world' reason that conservative-minded pollies are pushing their current "austerity" measures is so that they can kep on delivering undeserved tax cuts to their millionaire chums and corporate backers..          

Wolfie, mistakes have been made on both sides, it's unfair for Andy to keep blaming one side while neglecting to admit mistakes by the other,

Would you not agree?

Staffing levels in the Home Office starting reducing with the onset of the Conservative austetity measures.
Immigration and Customs staffing levels are at an all time low at a time when the pressure has never been greater.
After Brexit, that pressure wiill ramp up as EU countries will be only too glad to dump the unwanted and unwashed migrants onto us.

You must know why austetity measures were necessary, it was due to Labours excessive spending, remember the message left, "sorry there's no money left" or words to that affect, See what I mean Andy? You only blame one side !!

That would be the same comedic note left by every chancellor to their successor, which has been tradition for over 80 years.

Again, bullshit, prove it ! don't try to make excuses for your one sided bigotry !

Probably done by a labour supporter deliberately to cause a big embarrassment for the govt...


And we definitely need prope border controls re-established to prevent the free for all mass immigration madness and to prevent foreign criminals etc coming here,,,!

nicko wrote:Again, bullshit,  prove it !    don't try to make excuses for your one sided bigotry !

FGS Nicko, don't parade your dumbness, they all leave notes, it's traditional:

https://www.theguardian.com/global/2010/may/17/liam-byrne-letter-wider-tradition

Nicko  is a clueless debater. His only retort against an arguement is "Bullshit".
And I am even advocating much stronger border controls to keep out illegal immigrants, terrorists and clandestines. As well as weapons, drugs and other contraband.
But Nick is so fixed on following his Tory party line he will even go against what he has been calling for on his other sites with his alt right chums. "Wogz Muzzies and Stani's out" cried his mate who was banned from here.
Clearly he want Britain overrun with bad foreigners, purely so he can blame Labour.

Oh go away with you and sassy's left wing bullshit, your both traitors to this country, say what you like about me, it's geranium like you that will be the ruin of this country. I speak the truth and you don't like to hear that !!

Angry Andy wrote:100 EU nationals written to by the HO to inform them they are being deported.
It was in error.
But it raises some serious points.
The HO has had a 35% cut in staff over the past 7 years, and in most areas is no longer fit for purpose due to staff shortages.
Those that remain have endured a 7 year pay freeze, are demotivated and morale  is at an all time low.
There are compelling reasons why mistskes of this type occur, and these are of a comparatively minor and inconsequential  nature - easily identified  and remedied.
The same Home Office staff are also liable to be allowing (unwittingly) terrorist through canalised ports and airports because of insufficient staff to conduct proper and thorough checks.
The staff cuts are to continue, as is the continuation of the austerity pay freeze, whereby the HO is now finding it impossible to recruit suitable replacements for reirements and resignations due to dismal terms and conditions and dreadful pay.
It will only get worse post Brexit as EVERY foreigner, not just non EU, will require 100% Immigration and Customs controls, as will freight lorries and the freight they carry.
This will come bsck to haunt and hurt May and her austerity led Conservatives.
Home Office blunder sees 100 EU nationals mistakenly told to leave the country

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/home-office-blunder-sees-100-11039948#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

Anyone who defends the Government's position is encouraging terrorism.

So an error, is now encouraging terrorism to you?

How exactly?

Angry Andy wrote:    So, do you want stronger border controls like me and Labour, or weaker ones like Teresa May and the Conservatives?
Simple question, and only requires a binary yes/no answer.

That did not answer my question.

I want strong border controls no matter who is in power.

Try again

So an error, is now encouraging terrorism to you?

How exactly?

Thorin wrote:

Angry Andy wrote:100 EU nationals written to by the HO to inform them they are being deported.
It was in error.
But it raises some serious points.
The HO has had a 35% cut in staff over the past 7 years, and in most areas is no longer fit for purpose due to staff shortages.
Those that remain have endured a 7 year pay freeze, are demotivated and morale  is at an all time low.
There are compelling reasons why mistskes of this type occur, and these are of a comparatively minor and inconsequential  nature - easily identified  and remedied.
The same Home Office staff are also liable to be allowing (unwittingly) terrorist through canalised ports and airports because of insufficient staff to conduct proper and thorough checks.
The staff cuts are to continue, as is the continuation of the austerity pay freeze, whereby the HO is now finding it impossible to recruit suitable replacements for reirements and resignations due to dismal terms and conditions and dreadful pay.
It will only get worse post Brexit as EVERY foreigner, not just non EU, will require 100% Immigration and Customs controls, as will freight lorries and the freight they carry.
This will come bsck to haunt and hurt May and her austerity led Conservatives.
Home Office blunder sees 100 EU nationals mistakenly told to leave the country

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/home-office-blunder-sees-100-11039948#ICID=Android_TMNewsApp_AppShare

Anyone who defends the Government's position is encouraging terrorism.

So an error, is now encouraging terrorism to you?

How exactly?

What the fuck are you dribbling on about now, argue boy?

The HO made a human error due to pressure caused by staff shortages  and low morale.
I want more staff and stronger controls.
Nicko doesn't.  He wants more of the same. More austerity. More cuts. Weaker more porous borders. 
I know you will start an arguement  in an rmpty room, Thor. But at least have something vslid to say, whilst Nicko flounders with his bullshit blusters.

Angry Andy wrote:

Thorin wrote:


So an error, is now encouraging terrorism to you?

How exactly?

What the fuck are you dribbling on about now, argue boy?

The HO made a human error due to pressure caused by staff shortages  and low morale.
I want more staff and stronger controls.
Nicko doesn't.  He wants more of the same. More austerity. More cuts. Weaker more porous borders. 
I know you will start an arguement  in an rmpty room, Thor. But at least have something vslid to say, whilst Nicko flounders with his bullshit blusters.

Ah bless, when taken to task the potty mouth can only express abuse

Last chance

So an error, is now encouraging terrorism to you?

How exactly?

As to Corbyn, has numerous times failed to condemned the IRA, let alone called Hamas and Hezbollah. Has argued to allow those who have fought for ISIS to return

Yet you claim he cares about the security of this country?

One moment

I want more immigration and less Border controls? what the fuck are you on about? Can you read,? or are you getting a child to do it for you?

Stop on Electric sky with the other wankers, OH SORRY, it's been closed down, so it's only here you can post your BULSHIT.

You fucking evil geranium Nicko. Irn Bru is gravely ill and Sassy's hubby has cancer.
THEY suspended ES.
It wasn't  SHUT DOWN. 
How low can you stoop?
Go join your chums Stormee Bumbandit and Allakaka on flopnazi forum.

Thorin wrote:

Angry Andy wrote:
What the fuck are you dribbling on about now, argue boy?

The HO made a human error due to pressure caused by staff shortages  and low morale.
I want more staff and stronger controls.
Nicko doesn't.  He wants more of the same. More austerity. More cuts. Weaker more porous borders. 
I know you will start an arguement  in an rmpty room, Thor. But at least have something vslid to say, whilst Nicko flounders with his bullshit blusters.

Ah bless, when taken to task the potty mouth can only express abuse

Last chance

So an error, is now encouraging terrorism to you?

How exactly?

As to Corbyn, has numerous times failed to condemned the IRA, let alone called Hamas and Hezbollah. Has argued to allow those who have fought for ISIS to return

Yet you claim he cares about the security of this country?

One moment

So Andy cannot back up his original claim

nicko wrote:You must know why austetity  measures were necessary,   it was due to Labours excessive spending,   remember the message left, "sorry there's no money left"    or words to that affect,    See what I mean Andy?   You only blame one side !!

I have to disagree, nicko. The cost of humanism and 'safety-net' programs are negligible in contrast with wars. I know, I know...you Brits have the convenient excuse that your latest lapdog was a Labourite. But in the bigger picture it is war, and not humanity, that spends obscenely.

And it doesn't do much for a nation's pride...killing all them babies.

YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, YOU KEEP MENTIONING BABIES !

nicko wrote:YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, YOU KEEP MENTIONING BABIES !

No...nicko. You have a problem ignoring the fact that wars kill babies.

And it's not just you. It's a convenient mental lapse that seems to afflict everyone, on a mass basis.

But you digress. Let's stay with the point: economic problems do not come from programs designed to assist humanity.

Economic problems stem from unchecked egos, who write scripts of hate and vengeance about--I don't know--blacks, jews, Arabs and Muslims...anyone who has the temerity to possess our resources under their feet. Anyone who responds to our terrorism against their lands, with their terrorism against us. What nerve!!

Original Quill wrote:

nicko wrote:YOU HAVE A PROBLEM, YOU KEEP MENTIONING BABIES !

No...nicko.  You have a problem ignoring the fact that wars kill babies.  

And it's not just you.  It's a convenient mental lapse that seems to afflict everyone, on a mass basis.

But you digress.  Let's stay with the point: economic problems do not come from programs designed to assist humanity.  

Economic problems stem from unchecked egos, who write scripts of hate and vengeance about--I don't know--blacks, jews, Arabs and Muslims...anyone who has the temerity to possess our resources under their feet.  Anyone who responds to our terrorism against their lands, with their terrorism against us.  What nerve!!

And inaction allows far more babies to die, as we have seen with many aggressors and where the west sits back and does nothing.

For the first few years of the Syrian war the world sat back and watched.

Now half a million are dead, many more wounded and 9 million displaced.

The pacifist approach allows more people to die, where their are conflicts and we do nothing

So those suffering persecution, oppression, genocide etc, have a problem with your inaction, because their babies are dying, with you doing nothing.

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

No...nicko.  You have a problem ignoring the fact that wars kill babies.  

And it's not just you.  It's a convenient mental lapse that seems to afflict everyone, on a mass basis.

But you digress.  Let's stay with the point: economic problems do not come from programs designed to assist humanity.  

Economic problems stem from unchecked egos, who write scripts of hate and vengeance about--I don't know--blacks, jews, Arabs and Muslims...anyone who has the temerity to possess our resources under their feet.  Anyone who responds to our terrorism against their lands, with their terrorism against us.  What nerve!!

And inaction allows far more babies to die, as we have seen with many aggressors and where the west sits back and does nothing.

For the first few years of the Syrian war the world sat back and watched.

Now half a million are dead, many more wounded and 9 million displaced.

The pacifist approach allows more people to die, where their are conflicts and we do nothing

So those suffering persecution, oppression, genocide etc, have a problem with your inaction, because their babies are dying, with you doing nothing.

War is not a game that one plays frivolously, as I'm afraid you do.  The US has not had a reason to go to war since 1942, the last time American soil was invaded with the Japanese landing on Attu Island, Alaska.

I'm sure there are passions about conflicts all over the world.  I could find people in South Boston who want to go to war with the British over Northern Ireland.  Pick your poison.  Syria is a tragedy--mostly, Europe's tragedy.  

But as Karl von Clausewitz told us in 1832, you don't go off half-cocked, largely on ego and adrenaline, to kill the babies of another nation merely because you think you see horrors there.   You've got to be thoughtful and intelligent about war.  Most of all, you've got to fit war into your own plans.  If you haven't got an endgame, you are stuck in a quagmire for decades...how long have we been in Afghanistan?  Sixteen years?

Even though the horrors don't stop--indeed, the nation that enters to stop horror, ends up contributing to the horrors--the costs continue to rise...monetary costs, costs in lives and costs in futures (babies).  War is a vicious cycle.  I sometimes think it was Nature's way of keeping a species from destroying the planet: a microbe may enter a fray thinking he is opposing the next microbe, but he is contributing to the overall inflammation to the host by doing the same thing. Kinda a natural means of temperature control.

Our military, and those of like nations, have been bumbling fools when it comes to international conflict.  A surgeon doesn't enter the operating room with a sledge hammer and a hacksaw.  Maybe our military would do well to study the hippocratic oath: first, do no harm!

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:

And inaction allows far more babies to die, as we have seen with many aggressors and where the west sits back and does nothing.

For the first few years of the Syrian war the world sat back and watched.

Now half a million are dead, many more wounded and 9 million displaced.

The pacifist approach allows more people to die, where their are conflicts and we do nothing

So those suffering persecution, oppression, genocide etc, have a problem with your inaction, because their babies are dying, with you doing nothing.

War is not a game that one plays frivolously, as I'm afraid you do.  The US has not had a reason to go to war since 1942, the last time American soil was invaded with the Japanese landing on Attu Island, Alaska.

I'm sure there are passions about conflicts all over the world.  I could find people in South Boston who want to go to war with the British over Northern Ireland.  Pick your poison.  Syria is a tragedy--mostly, Europe's tragedy.  



Our military, and those of like nations, have been bumbling fools when it comes to international conflict.  A surgeon doesn't enter the operating room with a sledge hammer and a hacksaw.  Maybe our military would do well to study the hippocratic oath: first, do no harm!

1) Subjective, where it has gone to war to defend peoples from aggression. To say they have no right, is your opinion and not a reason. In fact its a poor reason, which goes back to my point on you wanting to stand by and allow countless people to suffer

2) Then your whole method is flawed, as why do we protect and serve people? You place a boundary through geography, towards your own nation and not the world. What you are effectively sayings is that you pick and chose and in what aspect you will do.

For example, will you send aid in the form of food?

But will not send troops, so they can live a life free from persecution

Hence the argument you present contradicts.

You either protect people from persecution and help them, or the view is to not help anyone.

The reality is Quill I have been here on this with you before and each time you come unstuck, mainly as your argument is flawed

Thorin wrote:Hippocratic oath: first, do no harm!

First convince me that you, or the military will no do harm. Then maybe I'll consider it.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:Hippocratic oath: first, do no harm!

 

First convince me that you, or the military will no do harm.  Then maybe I'll consider it.

How can you do no harm, when people lives are under threat from others?

If you can invent something non lethal that can take out all enemy soldiers, then you have the answer.

Work on it. Now, at least, you are thinking in the right direction.

Original Quill wrote:Work on it.  Now, at least, you are thinking in the right direction.

So you agree to use the present form to stop those committing genocide

I knew you would get there in the end

Angry Andy wrote:You fucking evil geranium Nicko. Irn Bru is gravely ill and Sassy's hubby has cancer.
THEY suspended ES.
It wasn't  SHUT DOWN. 
How low can you stoop?
Go join your chums Stormee Bumbandit and Allakaka on flopnazi forum.

I'm genuinely sorry to hear that, Irn was always lovely on here...best wishes to both. x

Thank you Syl, I'll pass it on to him.

Send him my best wishes too Sassy. And all the best to your family as well.
Ignore the vile trolls on here.

Angry Andy wrote:Send him my best wishes too Sassy. And all the best to your family as well.
Ignore the vile trolls on here.

That's a bit unfair. Why would anyone know that Bru was very ill? Sassy is posting on here, so people wouldn't know there was anything wrong there either. I assumed it had been suspended because certain people on there can't behave themselves.

Angry Andy wrote:    So, do you want stronger border controls like me and Labour, or weaker ones like Teresa May and the Conservatives?
Simple question, and only requires a binary yes/no answer.

Aren't you in favour of UK being in the EU, and the subsequent 'free movement'/open borders that results here in UK from this... and which allows dangerous convicted criminals free entry to enter and live here in UK...!?


And aren't you also in favour of the EU 'human rights' laws that labour enshrined into UK law, that prevent us from being able to deport dangerous foreign criminals and illegals from UK...!?

No. I am ambivoulant over whether we stay or leave. We democrratically voted to leave so those voted to remain have to accept it.
What I cannot accept is the deliberate weakening of our borders and control of clandestines, potential  terrorists , child smugglers , drug smugglers and the illicit  importation of drugs and prohibited goods as a direct result of a dogmatic Conservative austerity policy aimed specifically at cutting costs and staffing levels of frontline Border Staff.
I think you will agree with me Tommy.
Some argue because they automatically  take the juxtaposed oosition from my arguement.
Others argue because it is all they do. You are a clever bloke Tom. We rarely agree politically, but even you will agree we need more robust borders and controls.

Angry Andy wrote:(1) No. I am ambivoulant over whether we stay or leave. We democrratically voted to leave so those voted to remain have to accept it.

(2) What I cannot accept is the deliberate weakening of our borders and control of clandestines, potential  terrorists , child smugglers , drug smugglers and the illicit  importation of drugs and prohibited goods as a direct result of a dogmatic Conservative austerity policy aimed specifically at cutting costs and staffing levels of frontline Border Staff.

(3) I think you will agree with me Tommy.

Some argue because they automatically  take the juxtaposed oosition from my arguement.
Others argue because it is all they do.

(4) You are a clever bloke Tom.

(5) We rarely agree politically, but even you will agree we need more robust borders and controls.

(1) I think you mean 'ambivalent'... which is another word for what i call 'quantum thinking', which is an often seen trait of a lefty/labour supporter...

Ambivalence | Define Ambivalence at Dictionary.com
www.dictionary.com/browse/ambivalence‎

'...uncertainty or fluctuation, especially when caused by inability to make a choice or by a simultaneous desire to say or do two opposite or conflicting things. ... the coexistence within an individual of positive and negative feelings toward the same person, object, or action ...'


(2) Neither can I... which is exactly what myself and others have been saying for years... and has been the direct result of the last labour govt and EU rules that labour also signed us up to!!!


(3 & 4 & 5) It looks more like you are finally seeing sense and agreeing with me!

In that case we are proving Nicko and Thorin grossly wrong..
I am open minded enough to see both sides of the Brexit debate. There are plusses and minuses on both sides.
Others are totally blinded or blinkered and refuse to liok at the whole picture.

[size=36]ambivalent
amˈbɪv(ə)l(ə)nt/
adjective
[/size][list=lr_dct_sf_sens]
[*]having mixed feelings or contradictory ideas about something or someone.

"some loved her, some hated her, few were ambivalent about her"

synonyms:

equivocal, uncertain, unsure, doubtful, indecisive, inconclusive, irresolute, in two minds, undecided, unresolved, in a dilemma, on the horns of a dilemma, in a quandary, on the fence, torn, hesitating, fluctuating, wavering, vacillating, equivocating, mixed; More

[/list]

Andy...

'...What I cannot accept is the deliberate weakening of our borders and control of clandestines, potential  terrorists , child smugglers , drug smugglers and the illicit  importation of drugs and prohibited goods...'

And...

'...we need more robust borders and controls...'



Andy... in all seriousness... you can not truly hold the above quoted beliefs... AND be a supporter of EU membership and EU rules...!!!


The two are opposites... like sanity and insanity...!!!

Angry Andy wrote:In that case we are proving Nicko and Thorin grossly wrong..
I am open minded enough to see both sides of the Brexit debate. There are plusses and minuses on both sides.
Others are totally blinded or blinkered and refuse to liok at the whole picture.

Really?

How are you proving me wrong, when you continually run away from answering questions or instead invoke your potty mouth Andy?

You also claim Labour wants strong borders, but that is inherently untrue based upon Corbyn leading labour.

As this is the man who argued against denying Brits who went to fight for ISIS returning to the UK.
Has friends in Hamas and Hezbollah. Has avoided like the plague many times condemning the IRA
So where I no longer support a party and have no issue with centrist Labour MP's. I do take issue with the Far left under Corbyn, that brush under the carpet antisemitism.

Now I have little faith in the Tories anymore, yet I like some MP's as i do within Labour, but have no faith in each party.

So how can you reconcile your beliefs around security, antisemitism, on Corbyn and Momentum? Especially that now a third of British Jews wish to leave the UK based on a fear and threat from them?

I never knew IRN was ill, nobody said he was, that geranium Andy must think i'm a fucking mind reader.

sassy wrote:Thank you Syl, I'll pass it on to him.

Thanks Sassy...I still remember the brilliant little customised drawing Irn did for me on my birthday card, it was greatly appreciated.
Sending all my good wishes to him, and to your lovely OH too. x

Sorry to be off topic, but there was nowhere else to say this.

nicko wrote:I never knew IRN was ill,    nobody said he was,    that geranium Andy must think i'm a fucking mind reader.

Its been no secret for a while.
Perhaps you should refrain from making uneducated assumptions on othet peopke and forums then.
You SAID IT HAD BEEN SHUT DOWN.
Wjo told you that?

And Tommy and I were having a decent, mutually respectful and polite convetsation about Beexit last night  - not a debate or fight, and who should jump in to start an arguement?
No need to answer that. 
Thor rarely if ever has conversations or debates. Just angry arguements.
Is he like that outside of forum life?
If he is, he really must be Billy no-mates.

Angry Andy wrote:

nicko wrote:I never knew IRN was ill,    nobody said he was,    that geranium Andy must think i'm a fucking mind reader.

Its been no secret for a while.
Perhaps you should refrain from making uneducated assumptions on othet peopke and forums then.
You SAID IT HAD BEEN SHUT DOWN.
Wjo told you that?

And Tommy and I were having a decent, mutually respectful and polite convetsation about Beexit last night  - not a debate or fight, and who should jump in to start an arguement?
No need to answer that. 
Thor rarely if ever has conversations or debates. Just angry arguements.
Is he like that outside of forum life?
If he is, he really must be Billy no-mates.

Has it been announced on here? Not everyone was glued to that forum you know.

I didn't know about Irn or Sassys husband.

Thorin wrote:

Angry Andy wrote:In that case we are proving Nicko and Thorin grossly wrong..
I am open minded enough to see both sides of the Brexit debate. There are plusses and minuses on both sides.
Others are totally blinded or blinkered and refuse to liok at the whole picture.

Really?

How are you proving me wrong, when you continually run away from answering questions or instead invoke your potty mouth Andy?

You also claim Labour wants strong borders, but that is inherently untrue based upon Corbyn leading labour.

As this is the man who argued against denying Brits who went to fight for ISIS returning to the UK.
Has friends in Hamas and Hezbollah. Has avoided like the plague many times condemning the IRA
So where I no longer support a party and have no issue with centrist Labour MP's. I do take issue with the Far left under Corbyn, that brush under the carpet antisemitism.

Now I have little faith in the Tories anymore, yet I like some MP's as i do within Labour, but have no faith in each party.

So how can you reconcile your beliefs around security, antisemitism, on Corbyn and Momentum? Especially that now a third of British Jews wish to leave the UK based on a fear and threat from them?

Interesting. Does anything think I am starting an argument by the above response?

Andy claims I jumped in starting an argument, by responding to a post where he claims Nicko and myself is wrong. He then fails to respond to my questions. Then uses the old tired excuse I am arguing, to think this gets him out of answering points raised to him. Where more importantly, he cannot back up his claims.

Where again today he is bitching and using childish insults. All I can say is that Andy represents everything that is wrong with the left.

Maybe Andy needs to learn to stop bitching about posters and bringing them into conversations, if he gets upset that then people will reply back to him on his claims.

Just a thought