War in Virginia

by Original Quill Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:25 pm

The New York Times wrote:Car Hits Crowd After White Nationalist Rally in Charlottesville Ends in Violence
By SHERYL GAY STOLBERG and BRIAN M. ROSENTHALAUG. 12, 2017

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. — Violence erupted on Saturday as hundreds of white nationalists had gathered here for a rally and clashed with counterprotesters, resulting in at least one death and prompting the governor to declare a state of emergency.

After the rally at a city park was dispersed, a car plowed into a crowd near the city’s downtown mall, killing at least one person and injuring at least 19 others, according to a spokeswoman for the University of Virginia Medical Center. The authorities did not immediately say whether the episode was related to the white nationalists’ demonstration, but several witnesses and video of the scene suggested that it might have been intentional.

Emergency medical personnel treated eight people, the Charlottesville Police Department said. It was not immediately clear how severely they had been hurt. Several area hospitals did not return telephone calls seeking information.

Witnesses said a crowd of counterdemonstrators, jubilant because the white nationalists had left, was moving up Fourth Street, near the mall, when a gray sports car came down the road and accelerated, mowing down several people and hurling at least two in the air.

“It was probably the scariest thing I’ve ever seen in my life,” said Robert Armengol, who was at the scene reporting for a podcast he hosts with students at the University of Virginia. “After that it was pandemonium. The car hit reverse and sped and everybody who was up the street in my direction started running.”

Saturday afternoon, after initially issuing a brief denunciation on Twitter, President Trump, speaking at the start of a veterans’ event at his golf club in Bedminister, N.J., again addressed what he described as “the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Virginia.”

In his comments, President Trump condemned the bloody protests, but he did not specifically criticize the white nationalist rally and its neo-Nazi slogans beyond blaming “hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides.”

“It’s been going on for a long time in our country, it’s not Donald Trump, it’s not Barack Obama,” said Mr. Trump, adding that he had been in contact with Virginia officials. After calling for the “swift restoration of law and order,” he offered a call for unity among Americans of “all races, creeds and colors.”

The demonstration, which both organizers and critics had said was the largest gathering of white nationalists in recent years, was organized to protest the planned removal of a statue of Robert E. Lee from a city park that once bore the name of the Confederate general, but was renamed Emancipation Park.

The turmoil in Charlottesville began with a march Friday night by white nationalists on the campus of the University of Virginia and escalated Saturday morning as demonstrators from both sides gathered in the park. Waving Confederate flags, chanting Nazi-era slogans, wearing helmets and carrying shields, the white nationalists converged on the Lee statue and began chanting phrases like “You will not replace us” and “Jews will not replace us.”

Hundreds of counterprotesters — religious leaders, Black Lives Matter activists and anti-fascist groups known as “antifa” — quickly surrounded the crowd, singing spirituals, chanting and carrying their own signs.

The morning started peacefully, with the white nationalists gathering in McIntire Park, outside downtown, and the counterdemonstrators — including Cornel R. West, the Harvard University professor and political activist — gathering at the First Baptist Church, a historically African-American church here. Professor West, who addressed the group at a sunrise prayer service, said he had come “bearing witness to love and justice in the face of white supremacy.”

At McIntire Park, the white nationalists waved Confederate flags and other banners. As a photographer took pictures, one of them, who gave his name only as Ted because he said he might want to run for political office some day, said he was from Missouri, and added, “I’m tired of seeing white people pushed around.”

But by 11 a.m., after both sides had made their way to Emancipation Park, the scene had exploded into taunting, shoving and outright brawling.

Barricades encircling the park and separating the two sides began to come down, and the police temporarily retreated. People were seen clubbing one another in the streets, and pepper spray filled the air. One of the white nationalists left the park bleeding, his head wrapped in gauze.

Declaring the gathering an unlawful assembly, the police had cleared the area before noon, and the Virginia National Guard arrived as officers began arresting some who remained. But fears lingered that the altercation would start again nearby, as demonstrators dispersed in smaller groups.

Within an hour, politicians, including Gov. Terry McAuliffe, a Democrat, and the House speaker, Paul D. Ryan of Wisconsin, a Republican, had condemned the violence.

The first public response from the White House came from the first lady, Melania Trump, who wrote on Twitter: “Our country encourages freedom of speech, but let’s communicate w/o hate in our hearts. No good comes from violence.”

Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Justice Department agents would support local and state officials in an investigation of Saturday’s events.

“This kind of violence is totally contrary to American values and can never be tolerated,” Mr. Sessions said in a statement.

After the rally was dispersed, its organizer, Jason Kessler, who calls himself a “white advocate,” complained in an interview that his group had been “forced into a very chaotic situation.” He added, “The police were supposed to be there protecting us and they stood down.”

The street fights were the latest in a series of tense dramas unfolding across the United States over plans to remove statues and other historical markers of the Confederacy. The battles have been intensified by the election of Mr. Trump, who enjoys fervent support from white nationalists.

Adding to the turmoil, the Federal Aviation Administration said late Saturday that a Virginia State Police helicopter had crashed about seven miles southwest of Charlottesville. The cause of the crash and whether anyone was injured was not immediately known.

Here in Charlottesville, the protest, billed as a “Unite the Right” rally, was the culmination of a year and a half of debate in Charlottesville over the fate of the Lee statue. A movement to remove it began when an African-American high school student here started a petition. The City Council voted 3 to 2 in April to sell it, but a judge issued an injunction temporarily stopping the move.

The city had been bracing for a sea of alt-right demonstrators, and on Friday night, hundreds of them, carrying lit torches, marched on the picturesque grounds of the University of Virginia, founded in 1819 by Thomas Jefferson. The group included prominent white nationalist figures like Richard Spencer and David Duke, a former imperial wizard of the Ku Klux Klan.

“We’re going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump” to “take our country back,” Mr. Duke told reporters Saturday. Many of the white nationalist protesters carried campaign signs for Mr. Trump.

Mr. Duke strongly criticized Mr. Trump later in the day after the president condemned the violence.

University officials said one person was arrested and charged Friday night with assault and disorderly conduct, and several others were injured. Among those hurt was a university police officer injured while making the arrest, the school said in a statement.

Teresa A. Sullivan, the president of the university, strongly condemned the Friday demonstration in a statement, calling it “disturbing and unacceptable.”

Still, officials allowed the Saturday protest to go on — until the injuries began piling up.

The city of Charlottesville declared a state of emergency around 11 a.m., citing an “imminent threat of civil disturbance, unrest, potential injury to persons, and destruction of public and personal property.”

Governor McAuliffe followed with his own declaration an hour later.

“It is now clear that public safety cannot be safeguarded without additional powers, and that the mostly-out-of-state protesters have come to Virginia to endanger our citizens and property,” he said in a statement. “I am disgusted by the hatred, bigotry and violence these protesters have brought to our state over the past 24 hours.”

The Republican candidate for governor in Virginia, Ed Gillespie, issued his own statement denouncing the protests as “vile hate” that has “no place in our Commonwealth.”

Mr. Ryan agreed. “The views fueling the spectacle in Charlottesville are repugnant,” he said on Twitter. “Let it only serve to unite Americans against this kind of vile bigotry.”

Trump declares victory. cheers

"More of my people showed up than Democrats," he said.

"Don't spare their heads," the president told a small group of RW marchers. War in Virginia 479860004

"Remember," the Trumpster reminded everyone, "Virginia is an 'open carry' state. Get to work." Twisted Evil

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:46 am

CBS News wrote:2 dead in helicopter crash near Charlottesville, police say

Last Updated Aug 12, 2017 7:10 PM EDT

A Virginia State Police helicopter crashed Saturday in Albermale County, Virginia, near the city of Charlottesville, where a violent white nationalist rally was taking place.

The Bell 407 helicopter crashed seven miles southwest of Charlottesville, the FAA confirmed to CBS News. There are two confirmed fatalities, the Virginia State Police posted on their Facebook page. Both the people killed were on board.

President Trump tweeted Saturday night his "deepest condolences" to the family and fellow police officers after the crash.

Emergency crews were responding, according to CBS affiliate WCAV-TV.

Helicopters were reported flying overhead in Charlottesville as Gov. Terry McAuliffe declared a state of emergency after what is believed to be the largest gathering of white nationalists in a decade. At least one person was killed and 19 injured when a car plowed into a group of counter-protesters.

Officials told the Associated Press the crash was linked to the rally, although they did not elaborate on how the crash was connected.

This is a developing story. Check back for updates.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:09 am

Trumpsters Boast 3-people killed...

"Have a good time," Trump urges his supporters:

by Tommy Monk Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:21 am

'...General Robert E Lee was in fact a democrat. He was for slavery and defended the south during the Civil War...'

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:04 am

I am quite shocked they are treating the car ramming as second degree murder when it was a terrorist attack. It was deliberate and the intent was to cause as much harm as possible.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:25 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

'...General Robert E Lee was in fact a democrat. He was for slavery and defended the south during the Civil War...'

How times have changed, eh?

But General Lee didn't defend much of anything. He was one of the greatest Napoleonic tacticians ever. If you know anything about Napoleon, you know his forté was offense, not defense. His infantry square formation was shear genius. A Napoleonic charge was almost better than the German blitzkrieg.

The Confederates had a genius on defense in General James Longstreet, who was probably the first to realize the reversal of tactical advantage given the rifled barrel. Had Lee listened to him at Gettysburg, the outcome might have been different.

On the second matter, the Democrats altered drastically under FDR. The Republicans vacated their left flank when they lost the Progressive wing in 1912. This, in turn, caused the Democrats to move leftward in subsequent elections, leading up to FDR. With FDR, the parties literally flipped left and right.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:27 am

Thorin wrote:I am quite shocked they are treating the car ramming as second degree murder when it was a terrorist attack. It was deliberate and the intent was to cause as much harm as possible.

That may change. Right now, they probably lack proof of the element of premeditation. Also, consider that Virginia is the south.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:28 am

Original Quill wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

'...General Robert E Lee was in fact a democrat. He was for slavery and defended the south during the Civil War...'

How times have changed, eh?

But General Lee didn't defend much of anything. He was one of the greatest Napoleonic tacticians ever. If you know anything about Napoleon, you know his forté was offense, not defense. His infantry square formation was shear genius. A Napoleonic charge was almost better than the German blitzkrieg.

The Confederates had a genius on defense in General James Longstreet, who was probably the first to realize the reversal of tactical advantage given the rifled barrel. Had Lee listened to him at Gettysburg, the outcome might have been different.

On the second matter, the Democrats altered drastically under FDR. The Republicans vacated their left flank when they lost the Progressive wing in 1912. This, in turn, caused the Democrats to move leftward in subsequent elections, leading up to FDR. With FDR, the parties literally flipped left and right.

Eh? Based on what exactly?

Waterloo would show you that such a thing was a bloodbath for those charging.

The German Blitzkrieg was far more successful and was adopted by its enemies.

I agree on your points with General Lee and he was about the best Civil War commander.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:30 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:I am quite shocked they are treating the car ramming as second degree murder when it was a terrorist attack. It was deliberate and the intent was to cause as much harm as possible.

That may change. Right now, they probably lack the element of premeditation. Also, consider that Virginia is the south.

It does not really matter about predetermination.

The intent was to cause terror, fear and as much carnage as possible.

If this had been an Islamic extremist, there would be no hesitating in classifying this as a terrorist act. This was a Far Right extremist

To me Quill, this is clearly a terrorist attack.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:54 am

Thorin wrote:Waterloo would show you that such a thing was a bloodbath for those charging.

The German Blitzkrieg was far more successful and was adopted by its enemies.

I agree on your points with General Lee and he was about the best Civil War commander.

Give me a little latitude for hyperbole. Of course I'm not serious about the charge over the blitzkrieg. But Napoleon invented the tactic of placing the vanguard (bulk) of his infantry in front...the first use of shock and awe in a charge. With the musket, it was an excellent tactic.

Alas, the rifled barrel put an end to all that. With a rifled Spencer, the aim was suddenly accurate at 1,000-yards or more. A well positioned defense could pick off a charge all day, as Lee found when the Army of Northern Virginia charged Little Round Top at Gettysburg.

In my opinion, General Longstreet of South Carolina was the best Civil War commander. He was the first tactician to realize the effect of the rifled barrel. He advised Lee against Picket's charge of the Army of Northern Virginia.

After defeat of the charge by the Union, Lee met Picket on the field. "General, where is your army?" Lee asked.

"General, sir," a furious Picket responded, "I have no army." Picket forever after refused to even speak to Lee. Catton, Bruce, Gettysburg: The Final Fury (1974).

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:59 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:Waterloo would show you that such a thing was a bloodbath for those charging.

The German Blitzkrieg was far more successful and was adopted by its enemies.

I agree on your points with General Lee and he was about the best Civil War commander.

Give me a little latitude for hyperbole. Of course I'm not serious about the charge over the blitzkrieg. But Napoleon invented the tactic of placing the vanguard (bulk) of his infantry in front...the first use of shock and awe in a charge. With the musket, it was an excellent tactic.

Alas, the rifled barrel put an end to all that. With a rifled Spencer, the aim was suddenly accurate at 1,000-yards or more. A well positioned defense could pick off a charge all day, as Lee found when the Army of Northern Virginia charged Little Round Top at Gettysburg.

In my opinion, General Longstreet of South Carolina was the best Civil War commander. He was the first tactician to realize the effect of the rifled barrel. He advised Lee against Picket's charge of the Army of Northern Virginia.

After defeat of the charge by the Union, Lee met Picket on the field. "General, where is your army?" Lee asked.

"General, sir," a furious Picket responded, "I have no army." Picket forever after refused to even speak to Lee. Catton, Bruce, Gettysburg: The Final Fury (1974).

We will have to agree to disagree on this Quill, as to me Lee was by far the better strategist and tactician

I agree in Longstreet being a great commander and place him alongside Jackson, though the later was reckless.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:06 am

About 70 miles east of where I live, in the university town of Charlottesville, Virginia, one person is dead and many others injured after a car plowed into a crowd of people peacefully marching against a white nationalist “Unite the Right” rally.

War in Virginia Charlottesville-e1502570413925

War in Virginia Charlottesville-e1502570413925

Here are some of the people they were protesting:

War in Virginia Charlottesville2-e1502570828258

Unfortunately I’m used to seeing Confederate battle flags in my part of Virginia. Fortunately I’m not used to seeing Nazi flags. Trump has condemned the hatred and violence “on many sides.” When violent Islamic extremists do this sort of thing, he’s usually a lot more specific.

Update:

Follow
Glenn Thrush

✔@GlennThrush
[ltr]It is neither unfair nor inaccurate to point out that the president has been tougher on Mitch McConnell than Putin or Nazis in last 24 hours[/ltr]

8:58 PM - Aug 12, 2017 · Bridgewater, NJ

[ltr]
Thank you, Republican Senator Cory Gardner, for having the decency and honesty to say what Trump won’t.[/ltr]

Follow
Cory Gardner

✔@SenCoryGardner
[ltr]Mr. President - we must call evil by its name. These were white supremacists and this was domestic terrorism. https://twitter.com/sencorygardner/status/896465229181210624 …[/ltr]

9:44 PM - Aug 12, 2017

http://hurryupharry.org/2017/08/12/awful-news-from-charlottesville/

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:15 am

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

That may change. Right now, they probably lack the element of premeditation. Also, consider that Virginia is the south.

It does not really matter about predetermination.

The intent was to cause terror, fear and as much carnage as possible.

If this had been an Islamic extremist, there would be no hesitating in classifying this as a terrorist act. This was a Far Right extremist

To me Quill, this is clearly a terrorist attack.

I agree. But what law would you bring it under? This is the south, and the Trumpsters get a lot more latitude down there.

In the US, as the UK, terrorism is what you call it when Muslims harm people...not whites. When did they ever convict a Klan member for hanging a black, or when would they ever convict a white man for killing a few lefties with his car at a demonstration? To them, that's not terrorism. Absent terrorism, it's between 1st-degree and 2nd-degree homicide...if that.

The suspect will defend on the basis of an unintentional vehicle accident, and a Virginia jury will be sympathetic. It's the same sympathy the Florida jury gave George Zimmerman.

Frankly, they will be lucky to get a conviction of second-degree homicide. It was in an automobile, after all. If a Trumpster jury is handed a defense of motor vehicle accident, they are just as likely to go for it as the Zimmerman jury went for self-defense.

We'll see...

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:21 am

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:

It does not really matter about predetermination.

The intent was to cause terror, fear and as much carnage as possible.

If this had been an Islamic extremist, there would be no hesitating in classifying this as a terrorist act. This was a Far Right extremist

To me Quill, this is clearly a terrorist attack.

I agree. But what law would you bring it under? This is the south, and the Trumpsters get a lot more latitude down there.

In the US, as the UK, terrorism is what you call it when Muslims harm people...not whites. When did they ever convict a Klan member for hanging a black, or when would they ever convict a white man for killing a few lefties with his car at a demonstration? To them, that's not terrorism. Absent terrorism, it's between 1st-degree and 2nd-degree homicide...if that.

The suspect will defend on the basis of an unintentional vehicle accident, and a Virginia jury will be sympathetic. It's the same sympathy the Florida jury gave George Zimmerman.

Frankly, they will be lucky to get a conviction of second-degree homicide. It was in an automobile, after all. If a Trumpster jury is handed a defense of motor vehicle accident, they are just as likely to go for it as the Zimmerman jury went for self-defense.

We'll see...

That is incorrect both for the US and the UK, and I understand there has been more white supremacist terrorist attacks in the US than Islamist. Only that the later has been more deadly. In the UK recently a former soldier has been sent to prison for bomb making. In the UK we still have a problem with terrorism within Northern Ireland.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/31/royal-marine-made-bombs-dissident-republicans-jailed-18-years/

So you really are distorting the truth Quill. Yes in the past many white supremacists have gotten away with the lynchings of African Americans, but the reality is many attacks by white Supremacists are classed as terrorism.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/terrorism-right-wing-america-Muslims-islam-white-supremacists-study-a7805831.html

So to me the US is unique compared to many western nations, as it also have a major problem with Far Right terrorism as well as Islamic terrorism. Most of which I believe is down to the Christian White Supremacist Fundamentalists you have within the US.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:27 am

Good luck. I'll wager the guy gets (1) a change of venue to the southern part of the state, and (2) he either (a) is convicted of no more than vehicular negligence, or he (b) gets off like Zimmerman.

I know his defense already. My foot stuck. I panicked. The brakes wouldn't work. I meant to hit the brake, but hit the gas. I reversed because I had hit someone. Oh my god! Oh my god! I feel so awful! The jury buys it, and we all go to Kentucky Fried Chicken for dinner.

It's the south, after all.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:29 am

On Saturday, sociologist Randy Blazak — a specialist in white supremacist groups and political violence — ripped Fake President Trump’s attempt to blame “all sides” for the violence that killed one protester in Charlottesville, VA and injured more than a dozen others.

CNN anchor Ana Cabrera asked Blazak if there is “a correct or incorrect way to talk about these hate groups?”

“There is,” Blazak said. “It’s not fair to equate both sides of the debate as equally invested in some type of a dominant narrative or they’re equally violent. There is a group that is trying to turn back the clock, and I think the problem is when we see two sides of the same coin, the anti-fascist and fascist as locked in this combat.”

Furthermore, he said, “I think the alt-right is trying to hijack the discussion about who is the victim in American history. For them it’s white men and that’s not just the reality.”

http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/thats-just-not-reality-sociologist-says-liberals-and-conservatives-are-far-from-equally-violent/

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:42 am

Trump gave a crass, insensitive statement. But he's Trump.

He wasn't supposed to win, either. He wasn't supposed to fire the FBI Director. He isn't supposed to kiss Putin's ass. Everything he does is a new first. But he gets away with it. He lives a charmed life.

by 'Wolfie Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:17 am

That terrorist driver has another thing in common with Zimmerman, now that his photo' is appearing on news bulletins...

Both of those white supremacists appear as weak "men" (this one is a flabby little girly-man, Zimmerman a scrawny little runt..), with faces like a mongrel dogs arse..

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:02 am

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

That terrorist driver has another thing in common with Zimmerman, now that his photo' is appearing on news bulletins...

Both of those white supremacists appear as weak "men" (this one is a flabby little girly-man, Zimmerman a scrawny little runt..), with faces like a mongrel dogs arse..

It's strange how the media portrayed Zimmerman as a large thickset man isn't it? I wonder why they did that.

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:04 am

Two police officers died in a helicopter crash whilst monitoring the protest. I presume that was an accident of some kind?

Perhaps they should have left the statue alone, then none of this would have happened.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:36 am

Raggamuffin wrote:Two police officers died in a helicopter crash whilst monitoring the protest. I presume that was an accident of some kind?

Perhaps they should have left the statue alone, then none of this would have happened.

Apologist thinking for violence

Are you seriously claiming its worth driving a car into people killing and wounding them over a statue?

by 'Wolfie Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:31 pm

I reckon removing the statue was secondary...

The white supremacist/neo-nazi thugs consortium are out to cause trouble, riot and start fights..

Removal of some iconic KKK/militia civil war hero statues is only providing an "after the facts" excuse for their hatemongering and anti-social behaviours. War in Virginia 2347854014

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:31 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:
I reckon removing the statue was secondary...

The white supremacist/neo-nazi thugs consortium are out to cause trouble, riot and start fights..

Removal of some iconic KKK/militia civil war hero statues is only providing an "after the facts" excuse for their hatemongering and anti-social behaviour

Exactly Wolf

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:34 pm

WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

I reckon removing the statue was secondary...

The white supremacist/neo-nazi thugs consortium are out to cause trouble, riot and start fights..

Removal of some iconic KKK/militia civil war hero statues is only providing an "after the facts" excuse for their hatemongering and anti-social behaviours.

Yes, but it's why they went there isn't it?

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:38 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

I reckon removing the statue was secondary...

The white supremacist/neo-nazi thugs consortium are out to cause trouble, riot and start fights..

Removal of some iconic KKK/militia civil war hero statues is only providing an "after the facts" excuse for their hatemongering and anti-social behaviours.

Yes, but it's why they went there isn't it?

So you are saying the man who drove the car into counter protesters was there because of the status or because he was a hateful Neo Nazi?

Lets look at some of these protesters shall we Rags

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

That terrorist driver has another thing in common with Zimmerman, now that his photo' is appearing on news bulletins...

Both of those white supremacists appear as weak "men" (this one is a flabby little girly-man, Zimmerman a scrawny little runt..), with faces like a mongrel dogs arse..

It's strange how the media portrayed Zimmerman as a large thickset man isn't it? I wonder why they did that.

I wasn't aware of that. How exactly did they do it?

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:18 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's strange how the media portrayed Zimmerman as a large thickset man isn't it? I wonder why they did that.

I wasn't aware of that. How exactly did they do it?

They used an old photo of him where he was bigger, therefore giving the impression that a teenage boy couldn't have overpowered him, but at the time of the shooting he'd lost a lot of weight. They also used an old photo of Trayvon, making him look younger and smaller than he actually was.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:20 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

I wasn't aware of that. How exactly did they do it?

They used an old photo of him where he was bigger, therefore giving the impression that a teenage boy couldn't have overpowered him, but at the time of the shooting he'd lost a lot of weight. They also used an old photo of Trayvon, making him look younger and smaller than he actually was.

So it was still a picture of him?

Thus still being a large thickset man

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:21 pm

I would love to see you post the differences on the photo's of Zimmerman, Rags, to show you have a point or whether he is still a thick set man.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:25 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
WhoseYourWolfie wrote:

I reckon removing the statue was secondary...

The white supremacist/neo-nazi thugs consortium are out to cause trouble, riot and start fights..

Removal of some iconic KKK/militia civil war hero statues is only providing an "after the facts" excuse for their hatemongering and anti-social behaviours.

Yes, but it's why they went there isn't it?

No...more of an afterthought. In fact, I don't think the University of Virginia was contemplating removing the statute. General Lee is not the southern symbol that Jefferson Davis was.

Anyway, I think David Duke gives a more realistic reason for the white supremacist celebration:

Daily Mail wrote:'This represents a turning point': Former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke says white nationalists will 'fulfill the promises of Donald Trump' and 'take our country back'

By KEITH GRIFFITH FOR DAILYMAIL.COM/UPDATED: 02:08 EDT, 13 August 2017

Far-right author David Duke has said that white nationalists will 'fulfill the promises of Donald Trump', calling a massive rally in Charlottesville 'a turning point'.

Duke's remarks came Saturday morning, before the rally in Charlottesville, Virginia turned violent. Later in the day, however, he blasted Fake President Trump for 'attacking' white nationalists.

A former leader of a Ku Klux Klan group in the 1970s, Duke made headlines in the 2016 election when he said he supported voting for Trump, and Trump stumbled in an interview when asked to disavow him, later claiming he had a bad audio connection.

On Saturday morning, Duke attended the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville flanked by scheduled speaker Mike Peinovich, the alt-right podcaster better known by the pen name Mike Enoch.

'This represents a turning point for the people of this country,' said Duke in video captured by an Indianapolis Star photojournalist.

'We are determined to take our country back. We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump,' Duke said.

'Because he said he’s going to take our country back. That’s what we gotta do,' he continued.

President Trump admonished the day's tragic events, saying in a press conference: 'We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, violence, on many sides... The hate and division must stop, and must stop right now.'

As the day's event's turned violent, with clashes between antifa and white nationalists and a car attack on a crowd leaving one dead and a score injured, Duke and other rally participants turned sharply critical of Trump.

Responding to a tweet in which Trump called on citizens to 'condemn all that hate stands for,' Duke blasted back: 'So, after decades of White Americans being targeted for discriminated & anti-White hatred, we come together as a people, and you attack us?'

These are the Trump base (hence the name Trumpsters). They are the below 30% that will follow and support Trump no matter what. These are the people that Mr. Trump said he would pay the defense costs for...they are there because they want to Make America White Again!

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:28 pm

According to his autopsy, Martin was 5 feet 11 inches (1.80 m) tall and weighed 158 pounds (72 kg) at the time of his death.

At the time of his arrest on April 11, 2012, Zimmerman's height was reportedly 5 feet 7 inches (1.70 m) and his weight 185 lb(84 kg)

So Zimmerman had two stone in weight on Martin and 13 stone for 5 feet 7 is thickset based on his build in pictures.
So the point is moot about the pictures of Zimmerman.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:37 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, but it's why they went there isn't it?

No...more of an afterthought. In fact, I don't think the University of Virginia was contemplating removing the statute. General Lee is not the southern symbol that Jefferson Davis was.

Anyway, I think David Duke gives a more realistic reason for the white supremacist celebration:

Daily Mail wrote:'This represents a turning point': Former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke says white nationalists will 'fulfill the promises of Donald Trump' and 'take our country back'

By KEITH GRIFFITH FOR DAILYMAIL.COM/UPDATED: 02:08 EDT, 13 August 2017

Far-right author David Duke has said that white nationalists will 'fulfill the promises of Donald Trump', calling a massive rally in Charlottesville 'a turning point'.

Duke's remarks came Saturday morning, before the rally in Charlottesville, Virginia turned violent. Later in the day, however, he blasted Fake President Trump for 'attacking' white nationalists.

A former leader of a Ku Klux Klan group in the 1970s, Duke made headlines in the 2016 election when he said he supported voting for Trump, and Trump stumbled in an interview when asked to disavow him, later claiming he had a bad audio connection.

On Saturday morning, Duke attended the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville flanked by scheduled speaker Mike Peinovich, the alt-right podcaster better known by the pen name Mike Enoch.

'This represents a turning point for the people of this country,' said Duke in video captured by an Indianapolis Star photojournalist.

'We are determined to take our country back. We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump,' Duke said.

'Because he said he’s going to take our country back. That’s what we gotta do,' he continued.

President Trump admonished the day's tragic events, saying in a press conference: 'We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, violence, on many sides... The hate and division must stop, and must stop right now.'

As the day's event's turned violent, with clashes between antifa and white nationalists and a car attack on a crowd leaving one dead and a score injured, Duke and other rally participants turned sharply critical of Trump.

Responding to a tweet in which Trump called on citizens to 'condemn all that hate stands for,' Duke blasted back: 'So, after decades of White Americans being targeted for discriminated & anti-White hatred, we come together as a people, and you attack us?'

These are the Trump base (hence the name Trumpsters). They are the below 30% that will follow and support Trump no matter what. These are the people that Mr. Trump said he would pay the defense costs for...they are there because they want to Make America White Again!

Indeed Quill, the statue is just an excuse. When the reality mindset of these white supremacists is based on their flawed view to go back in time. Where white people continually oppressed and enslaved others. They weirdly and wrongly see themselves as oppressed and want to create another revolution. To me Christian fundamentalist Conservatism is at the core of this.

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:39 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, but it's why they went there isn't it?

No...more of an afterthought. In fact, I don't think the University of Virginia was contemplating removing the statute. General Lee is not the southern symbol that Jefferson Davis was.

Anyway, I think David Duke gives a more realistic reason for the white supremacist celebration:

Daily Mail wrote:'This represents a turning point': Former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke says white nationalists will 'fulfill the promises of Donald Trump' and 'take our country back'

By KEITH GRIFFITH FOR DAILYMAIL.COM/UPDATED: 02:08 EDT, 13 August 2017

Far-right author David Duke has said that white nationalists will 'fulfill the promises of Donald Trump', calling a massive rally in Charlottesville 'a turning point'.

Duke's remarks came Saturday morning, before the rally in Charlottesville, Virginia turned violent. Later in the day, however, he blasted Fake President Trump for 'attacking' white nationalists.

A former leader of a Ku Klux Klan group in the 1970s, Duke made headlines in the 2016 election when he said he supported voting for Trump, and Trump stumbled in an interview when asked to disavow him, later claiming he had a bad audio connection.

On Saturday morning, Duke attended the white nationalist rally in Charlottesville flanked by scheduled speaker Mike Peinovich, the alt-right podcaster better known by the pen name Mike Enoch.

'This represents a turning point for the people of this country,' said Duke in video captured by an Indianapolis Star photojournalist.

'We are determined to take our country back. We are going to fulfill the promises of Donald Trump. That’s what we believed in, that’s why we voted for Donald Trump,' Duke said.

'Because he said he’s going to take our country back. That’s what we gotta do,' he continued.

President Trump admonished the day's tragic events, saying in a press conference: 'We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, violence, on many sides... The hate and division must stop, and must stop right now.'

As the day's event's turned violent, with clashes between antifa and white nationalists and a car attack on a crowd leaving one dead and a score injured, Duke and other rally participants turned sharply critical of Trump.

Responding to a tweet in which Trump called on citizens to 'condemn all that hate stands for,' Duke blasted back: 'So, after decades of White Americans being targeted for discriminated & anti-White hatred, we come together as a people, and you attack us?'

These are the Trump base (hence the name Trumpsters). They are the below 30% that will follow and support Trump no matter what. These are the people that Mr. Trump said he would pay the defense costs for...they are there because they want to Make America White Again!

They weren't going to remove the statue? I read that the council had voted to remove it, and that a judge had agreed to block the removal for six months whilst litigation proceeded.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/15/us/charlottesville-lee-monument-spencer-protests-trnd/index.html

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:40 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:They weren't going to remove the statue? I read that the council had voted to remove it, and that a judge had agreed to block the removal for six months whilst litigation proceeded.

Sooo...not much of an issue. I think David Duke was right.

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:45 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:They weren't going to remove the statue? I read that the council had voted to remove it, and that a judge had agreed to block the removal for six months whilst litigation proceeded.

Sooo...not much of an issue. I think David Duke was right.

Didn't you say they weren't going to remove it? Why the litigation if they weren't going to do so?

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:46 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:

No...more of an afterthought. In fact, I don't think the University of Virginia was contemplating removing the statute. General Lee is not the southern symbol that Jefferson Davis was.

Anyway, I think David Duke gives a more realistic reason for the white supremacist celebration:

These are the Trump base (hence the name Trumpsters). They are the below 30% that will follow and support Trump no matter what. These are the people that Mr. Trump said he would pay the defense costs for...they are there because they want to Make America White Again!

They weren't going to remove the statue? I read that the council had voted to remove it, and that a judge had agreed to block the removal for six months whilst litigation proceeded.

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/05/15/us/charlottesville-lee-monument-spencer-protests-trnd/index.html

But that is not why many people were there.

As seen, many used this as any excuse to vent their prejudices

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:19 pm

I have to say, I'm glad this is happening in Virginia and not California. As long as they keep out of California, I'm content to pull up a lawn chair, grab a lemonade and watch.

Hooray for the south...may they all destroy themselves!
cheers

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:33 pm

Original Quill wrote:I have to say, I'm glad this is happening in Virginia and not California. As long as they keep out of California, I'm content to pull up a lawn chair, grab a lemonade and watch.

Hooray for the south...may they all destroy themselves!

I have to say Quill, that has to be the most selfish and appalling stance to make.

What about people like Ben who live in the South?

Are they just mere cannon fodder, in order to achieve your political aims?

How many have to die in order that you feel secure in California?

You do not turn your back on people but by looking to change poor prejudiced beliefs with reason.

That is how California was able to progress itself.

Maybe you can to tell the victims families of the car ramming attack, you are so glad they suffered by such a White supremacist hateful attack

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:39 pm

Thorin wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I have to say, I'm glad this is happening in Virginia and not California. As long as they keep out of California, I'm content to pull up a lawn chair, grab a lemonade and watch.

Hooray for the south...may they all destroy themselves!

I have to say Quill, that has to be the most selfish and appalling stance to make.

What about people like Ben who live in the South?

Are they just mere cannon fodder, in order to achieve your political aims?

How many have to die in order that you feel secure in California?

You do not turn your back on people but by looking to change poor prejudiced beliefs with reason.

That is how California was able to progress itself.

You have to understand that I have already left the United States. It is someone else's country, and not our's in California. The events of yesterday should make it clear that we, in California, stand on the high moral ground. The Trumpsters and Republicans left America, not the other way around.

I strenuously urge Ben and other right-thinking people to seek asylum in California. They will be welcome. I'm sorry about Texas. I'm sorry about Virginia. But we are not the ones responsible. In fact, we offer sanity.

Long live the Pacific States of America!!!

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:44 pm

It's just extraordinary. The driver of the car made no attempt to hide what he was doing. He reversed afterwards and the front of the car was completely wrecked.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:44 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:

I have to say Quill, that has to be the most selfish and appalling stance to make.

What about people like Ben who live in the South?

Are they just mere cannon fodder, in order to achieve your political aims?

How many have to die in order that you feel secure in California?

You do not turn your back on people but by looking to change poor prejudiced beliefs with reason.

That is how California was able to progress itself.

You have to understand that I have already left the United States. It is someone else's country, and not our's in California. The evens of yesterday should make it clear that we, in California, stand on the high moral ground. The Trumpsters and Republicans left America, not the other way around.

I strenuously urge Ben and other right-thinking people to seek asylum in California. They will be welcome. I'm sorry about Texas. I'm sorry about Virginia. But we are not the ones responsible. In fact, we offer sanity.

So basically you are saying fuck you to the rest of the world let alone the rest of the United States.

So what will you do Quill when California needs outside help, as it has done, when it suffers drought?

Do you think money will always buy your way out?

I think you are no different than white supremacists.

You have the same mentality here. That you do not give a fuck about anyone else but those of a group you have formed from a social construct. I mean really what is the difference here, as you are very much a Californian Nationalist?

I mean California is nothing more than the land grab of white Europeans. Its been made your home off displacing the indigenous and then later the Spanish and Mexicans.

You are nothing more than a taker.

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:48 pm

There were two other cars which were either stationary or moving very slowly, and he drove into the back of one of them.

by Raggamuffin Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:52 pm

Some people attacked the back of the car before it reversed. One of those people looked to be crushed between the back of the car and the side of another vehicle.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:54 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:Some people attacked the back of the car before it reversed. One of those people looked to be crushed between the back of the car and the side of another vehicle.

Clearly I guess they were trying to stop him committing more harm

Frankly, the Police should have used a shoot to kill/incapacitate policy here on the killer.

by Cass Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:01 pm

I'm sure the charges will be upped to 1st degree murder. There's a picture of him in Vanguard clothing and a shield at the march at the college the night before. Vanguard says he wasn't a member. Talk about spinning damage control.

"I love my country
As it dies
In war and pain
Before my eyes

I watch the streets
Where disrespect has been
The sins of politics
The politics of sin

The heartlessness of men
That darkens my door
This evening..."

Another sad sad day here in the land of the free and the home of so much hate.

3 people dead and many injured protesting what my grandfather and grandfathers-in-law fought against. The problem stems from the top down. This is a direct result of electing someone who says they can shoot anybody and not get arrested, who will pay the legal fees of those who hurt his opponents. The KKK and White Supremacist Groups belong on the crap pile of history. They are not patriots. They never were and never will be. Shame on them and those that covertly or openly support them. Get out of our country. You do NOT belong here.

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:04 pm

Thorin wrote:So basically you are saying fuck you to the rest of the world let alone the rest of the United States.

Well, not so eloquently as you put it, but yes, fook off to the United States. Had the US not left us, we would still be on common ground. But they left us, and far be it for me to tell them how to live their lives.

As for the world, well…get serious. California is a part of the world. Has that world given in to the Trumpsters? Are you saying the rest of the world has gone off the rails too? I don’t think so. I’m sorry the US went off the deep end. But at this point there’s no sense in jumping off the cliff with them.

Thorin wrote:So what will you do Quill when California needs outside help, as it has done, when it suffers drought?

Here in California, the 5th largest economy in the world, we deal from strength. The reason why we coalesce as nations generally, is for self-help and self-protection. We, the normal people of the Pacific States, will be called upon to help others, not the other way around.

by eddie Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:05 pm

Original Quill wrote:I have to say, I'm glad this is happening in Virginia and not California. As long as they keep out of California, I'm content to pull up a lawn chair, grab a lemonade and watch.

Hooray for the south...may they all destroy themselves!

Rather heartless way to put your point across.....

by Original Quill Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:10 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I have to say, I'm glad this is happening in Virginia and not California. As long as they keep out of California, I'm content to pull up a lawn chair, grab a lemonade and watch.

Hooray for the south...may they all destroy themselves!

Rather heartless way to put your point across.....

I feel heartbroken. I will sorely miss New England, New York and Philadelphia. As for Virginia to the New Mexico border, they have sailed and never asked my permission.

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:11 pm

Original Quill wrote:
Thorin wrote:So basically you are saying fuck you to the rest of the world let alone the rest of the United States.

Well, not so eloquently as you put it, but yes to the United States. Had the US not left us, we would still be on common ground. But they left us, and far be it for me to tell them how to live their lives.
Thorin wrote:The rest of the US has not left you Quill. I really wonder what reality world you live in at times. If it was not for Aqueducts supplying water from other US states. Millions of Californians would have died, when ever there has been a drought

As for the world, well…get serious. California is a part of the world. Has that world given in to the Trumpsters? Are you saying the rest of the world has gone off the rails too? I don’t think so. I’m sorry the US went off the deep end. But at this point there’s no sense in jumping off the cliff with them.
Thorin wrote:I fail to see it being part of the world based on your view point of isolation. Have you not seen how in every era of history how stagnated a society becomes when it isolates itself off from the rest of the world?

Here in California, the 5th largest economy in the world, we deal from strength. The reason why we coalesce as nations generally, is for self-help and self-protection. We, the normal people of the Pacific States, will be called upon to help others, not the other way around.

You are only going off the back of those you took from and as seen California could not survive without outside help on water. It like many other nations has a weakness, and water is one of them. The most ridiculous part of your argument is that California has become economically strong not based independently, but as part of a nation, the US. Of which it never would have done, with the innovation of a small amount of innovative and intelligent people. I mean your view if based in practice would deny any wisdom being spread throughout the world. And help maintain the inequality of sexes, poverty and the social construct of races

by Guest Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:13 pm

eddie wrote:
Original Quill wrote:I have to say, I'm glad this is happening in Virginia and not California. As long as they keep out of California, I'm content to pull up a lawn chair, grab a lemonade and watch.

Hooray for the south...may they all destroy themselves!

Rather heartless way to put your point across.....

Absolutely Eddie

His point is born from selfishness, one he has gained off the back of a small amount of innovative people. Who if they were as he is, he would never have received his education or be in the position he is in today.

by Sponsored content