Mum waits in A&E for hours with dead baby in her handbag.

Heartbreaking....it sounds like something you would hear about in a third world country.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-forced-wait-three-hours-10839408

"A woman who suffered a miscarriage claims she was forced to wait in A&E for three hours with her dead baby in her handbag.
Tammy Anderson, 33, was told to bring her son’s body into hospital when she rang midwives to inform them about what had happened.
The traumatised mum-of-two ended up sitting in a crowded waiting room with the corpse of her baby - named Archie - beside her.
She was finally seen by a doctor but claims medics failed to put her in touch with a bereavement midwife until nearly 48 hours later.
Tammy said: “It was a horrific three hours, which I will never, ever forget."

Dear God. How horrible for her.

Bloody hell its unbelievable! The poor lady, this is so unacceptable

Why didn't she cop hold of a Nurse and open her bag?

If the fetus was dead, why didn't she go directly to the morgue? Why was she sitting in the clinic waiting room, anyway?

because....only a doctor can diagnose death....

https://www.miscarriageassociation.org.uk/information/frequently-asked-questions/

Seems sadly likely this could happen far to often.

Lord Foul wrote:because....only a doctor can diagnose death....

But they have doctors at the morgue...pathologists. Experts in the field of life and death.

I read the link.

There was talk recently of issuing birth certificates to babies born before the 24 week mark. At the moment if a baby is born before this time there is no official document to acknowledge the baby ever was....that's sad.

Original Quill wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:because....only a doctor can diagnose death....

But they have doctors at the morgue...pathologists.  Experts in the field of life and death.

Surely the most humane thing to do would be to send someone out to the mother who must be in shock.
Expecting her to trawl round morgues or a&e departments with the body of her baby....because to her that's exactly what he is, he is not hospital waste or something to be flushed down the loo......must be soul destroying.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

But they have doctors at the morgue...pathologists.  Experts in the field of life and death.

Surely the most humane thing to do would be to send someone out to the mother who must be in shock.
Expecting her to trawl round morgues or a&e departments with the body of her baby....because to her that's exactly what he is, he is not hospital waste or something to be flushed down the loo......must be soul destroying.

But trawling around with the body of her dead baby is exactly what she did do. If she knew the child was dead, why go to the wrong place and sit and wait for needless hours while the poor body festers? Emergency clinics are busy places, with sick to cure and lives to save. Allowing yet another life to slip away while a physician is distracted to tend to her sensitivities and console her, is not the answer.

Are British morgues waste disposals? If your people are that callous, that's another issue entirely. Perhaps that's a more important scandal than crowded intake emergency clinics.

As I said before, showing the baby to a nurse would have resulted in immediate action, wouldn't it?

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

Surely the most humane thing to do would be to send someone out to the mother who must be in shock.
Expecting her to trawl round morgues or a&e departments with the body of her baby....because to her that's exactly what he is, he is not hospital waste or something to be flushed down the loo......must be soul destroying.

But trawling around with the body of her dead baby is exactly what she did do.  If she knew the child was dead, why go to the wrong place and sit and wait for needless hours while the poor body festers?  Emergency clinics are busy places, with sick to cure and lives to save.  Allowing yet another life to slip away while a physician is distracted to tend to her sensitivities and console her, is not the answer.

Are British morgues waste disposals?  If your people are that callous, that's another issue entirely.  Perhaps that's a more important scandal than crowded intake emergency clinics.

Seriously what planet are you on?

The Morgue is not a drop off center where you can just stroll in.

Why do you think people who have had miscarriages are sometimes advised to go to A&E by the midwife?

Why do you also think they advise to take the fetus along with them?

I don't think you can just turn up at the morgue really. She might have needed medical attention - perhaps she would have been better off calling 111, or her doctor's surgery if they had an out-of-hours service.

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't think you can just turn up at the morgue really. She might have needed medical attention - perhaps she would have been better off calling 111, or her doctor's surgery if they had an out-of-hours service.

+1

Spot on Rags, but 111 would also advise contacting the midwife and if unable to go to A&E, dependent on the level of bleeding.

Also:

Unlike a stillbirth, you don't need to formally register a miscarriage. However, some hospitals can provide a certificate to mark what has happened if you want one.

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Miscarriage/Pages/Complications.aspx

Original Quill wrote:

Syl wrote:

Surely the most humane thing to do would be to send someone out to the mother who must be in shock.
Expecting her to trawl round morgues or a&e departments with the body of her baby....because to her that's exactly what he is, he is not hospital waste or something to be flushed down the loo......must be soul destroying.

But trawling around with the body of her dead baby is exactly what she did do.  If she knew the child was dead, why go to the wrong place and sit and wait for needless hours while the poor body festers?  Emergency clinics are busy places, with sick to cure and lives to save.  Allowing yet another life to slip away while a physician is distracted to tend to her sensitivities and console her, is not the answer.

Are British morgues waste disposals?  If your people are that callous, that's another issue entirely.  Perhaps that's a more important scandal than crowded intake emergency clinics.

If you had spent time in any British A&E you would know that many are cluttered up with drunks and idiots taking up valuable nursing time.
This lady was ADVISED to go to her A&E department with her dead baby not her local morgue....where she would have no doubt been turned straight back to the A&E department.

She did everything she was told to do...the NHS let her down badly.

nicko wrote:As I said before, showing the baby to a nurse would have resulted in immediate action,    wouldn't it?

It seems not Nicko.

“I waited 10 minutes to get booked in. Then I was told to take a seat.
“Three hours later I was still waiting for the gynaecological registrar to come down.
“How they left me for so long with my dead baby in my bag is unbelievable."



When you are first booked in you give details of why you are there, so the nurses would have known.
And I can understand why she didn't want to handle her dead baby to show the nurses.

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

But trawling around with the body of her dead baby is exactly what she did do.  If she knew the child was dead, why go to the wrong place and sit and wait for needless hours while the poor body festers?  Emergency clinics are busy places, with sick to cure and lives to save.  Allowing yet another life to slip away while a physician is distracted to tend to her sensitivities and console her, is not the answer.

Are British morgues waste disposals?  If your people are that callous, that's another issue entirely.  Perhaps that's a more important scandal than crowded intake emergency clinics.

Seriously what planet are you on?

The Morgue is not a drop off center where you can just stroll in.

Nor, as you've just learned, are emergency clinics "drop off centers". They exist to treat emergencies ... even the name should give you a clue. If the baby is already dead, what is the emergency? I have as much sympathy for the mother as anyone, but not to the point of detracting from the sick and needy.

In American hospitals, the Catholic religion has appointed sisters and priests that are permanently assigned to the facility to help and guide such people as this mother. I've always thought that this was a real benefit in a world of need. This might be a case in point. Obviously clinic staff are not trained or prepared for this contingency.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Seriously what planet are you on?

The Morgue is not a drop off center where you can just stroll in.

Nor, as you've just learned, are emergency clinics "drop off centers".  They exist to treat emergencies ... even the name should give you a clue.  If the baby is already dead, what is the emergency?  I have as much sympathy for the mother as anyone, but not to the point of detracting from the sick and needy.

In American hospitals, the Catholic religion has appointed sisters and priests that are permanently assigned to the facility to help and guide such people as this mother.  I've always thought that this was a real benefit in a world of need.  This might be a case in point.  Obviously clinic staff are not trained or prepared for this contingency.

Well I guess you are not that bright.

So why would a woman be advised by a midwife to attend A&E?

The answer has already been provided on this very thread..

I will give you a a clue. Its not about the fetus but the woman who has had the miscarriage.


Take your time

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't think you can just turn up at the morgue really. She might have needed medical attention - perhaps she would have been better off calling 111, or her doctor's surgery if they had an out-of-hours service.

You make some good points. Most of all ... that there are better alternatives than an emergency clinic, which is geared to treating the sick and needy on a double-time basis.

She needed help, just not the kind that an emergency ward provides.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I don't think you can just turn up at the morgue really. She might have needed medical attention - perhaps she would have been better off calling 111, or her doctor's surgery if they had an out-of-hours service.

You make some good points.  Most of all ... that there are better alternatives than an emergency clinic, which is geared to treating the sick and needy on a double-time basis.

She needed help, just not the kind that an emergency ward provides.

Wow, about as poor in understanding of women who suffer miscarriages as it can get

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Nor, as you've just learned, are emergency clinics "drop off centers".  They exist to treat emergencies ... even the name should give you a clue.  If the baby is already dead, what is the emergency?  I have as much sympathy for the mother as anyone, but not to the point of detracting from the sick and needy.

In American hospitals, the Catholic religion has appointed sisters and priests that are permanently assigned to the facility to help and guide such people as this mother.  I've always thought that this was a real benefit in a world of need.  This might be a case in point.  Obviously clinic staff are not trained or prepared for this contingency.

Well I guess you are not that bright.

So why would a woman be advised by a midwife to attend A&E?

The answer has already been provided on this very thread..

I will give you a a clue. Its not about the fetus but the woman who has had the miscarriage.

Take your time

Fook off. You don't contribute anything.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well I guess you are not that bright.

So why would a woman be advised by a midwife to attend A&E?

The answer has already been provided on this very thread..

I will give you a a clue. Its not about the fetus but the woman who has had the miscarriage.

Take your time

Fook off.  You don't contribute anything.

Look its not my fault you have the intellect of a hamster

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Well I guess you are not that bright.

So why would a woman be advised by a midwife to attend A&E?

The answer has already been provided on this very thread..

I will give you a a clue. Its not about the fetus but the woman who has had the miscarriage.

Take your time

Fook off.  You don't contribute anything.

He actually has contributed quite a lot in this thread...and he is right in what he says.
The woman was never given scans to confirm she had miscarried...it seems every diagnosis was given over the phone.
Weeks later she delivered her own baby at home at 15 weeks, she could well have needed medical care as she was in the 2nd trimester of her pregnancy.
In this country people don't toddle off to the morgue with bodies Quill....no matter how young or old they are.

Syl wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Fook off.  You don't contribute anything.

He actually has contributed quite a lot in this thread...and he is right in what he says.
The woman was never given scans to confirm she had miscarried...it seems every diagnosis was given over the phone.
Weeks later she delivered her own baby at home at 15 weeks, she could well have needed medical care as she was in the 2nd trimester of her pregnancy.
In this country people don't toddle off to the morgue with bodies Quill....no matter how young or old they are.

+1

Thank you

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

He actually has contributed quite a lot in this thread...and he is right in what he says.
The woman was never given scans to confirm she had miscarried...it seems every diagnosis was given over the phone.
Weeks later she delivered her own baby at home at 15 weeks, she could well have needed medical care as she was in the 2nd trimester of her pregnancy.
In this country people don't toddle off to the morgue with bodies Quill....no matter how young or old they are.

+1

Thank you

You are welcome, you have shown sense and compassion for the poor woman.....I cant imagine the pain, both physical and mental she went through, and the care and understanding she received by the people who should have helped her in the medical profession was almost non-existent.

It'll happen again, you watch. Wrong procedures.

Original Quill wrote:It'll happen again, you watch.  Wrong procedures.

No doubt it will happen again, the link that Thor posted earlier in the thread seems to suggest it already does happen.

Our NHS service vowed almost 70 years ago when it was first introduced to care for people from the cradle to the grave.
Too many cuts, staff shortages and too many people needing the service is eroding this away....as this lady (and millions more around the country) can testify to.

Sorry I'm going to sound really horrible here but the woman was probably one of those people who just does what she's told and refuses to stand up for herself.

The story doesn't even ring true.

It sounds like something out of a horror film to me, but I believe her.

Syl wrote:It sounds like something out of a horror film to me, but I believe her.

But come on! Who is stupid enough to sit there like that with a fuckind dead baby in their bag? Who is stupid enough to be told to wait there and accept it??

eddie wrote:

Syl wrote:It sounds like something out of a horror film to me, but I believe her.

But come on! Who is stupid enough to sit there like that with a fuckind dead baby in their bag? Who is stupid enough to be told to wait there and accept it??

Eddie, you do realise how people are traumatized do you not?

The fetus would have been about 4 inches long and she was asked to bring with her.

So what do you suggest she does, cause a seen and be escorted out by security?

Original Quill wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:because....only a doctor can diagnose death....

But they have doctors at the morgue...pathologists.  Experts in the field of life and death.

Here in Australia, the public don't normally go directly to the morgue...
(In this region, there are morgues at the major hospitals, and one in the basement of the Medical School at the uni'..).

The body will be transported afterwards to the morgue if necessary, after contacting a doctor, hospital (emergency department or the front desk), the ambulance service, the police,  or an undertaker..
(If a person turned up at the morgue unnanounced, they would probably be escorted around to the Emergency dept.; or security or police called if they were making trouble..  In some of the regional areas, morgues aren't staffed 24-7;  in some rural areas, you might be looking for the closest cold room or freezer;  in some remote areas you may have no choice but to bury a body --  but the law requires that outside help would be more than a few days away..).

If the death was natural and expected -- so that an autopsy is not required --  it might go directly to an undertakers from home, with the proper death certificate.

A normal member of the public usually has to contact one of these qualified people, to then get in touch with the right authorities, to legally and properly dispose of a corpse..  If they don't they might be charged with illegally or improperly disposing of that person's body...

************************************************************

And, as others have already pointed out, with miscarriages, still births, or cases of early deaths/SIDS/unexpected deaths, you also need to be looking to the health and welfare of the mother herself..

eddie wrote:

Syl wrote:It sounds like something out of a horror film to me, but I believe her.

But come on! Who is stupid enough to sit there like that with a fuckind dead baby in their bag? Who is stupid enough to be told to wait there and accept it??

Well you are seeing this in a detached way, to this woman, who was traumatised and no doubt physically and mentally fragile, she simply did what she was told to do.
She had waited at home for a midwife to call...but as none were available her options were somewhat limited.

Thorin wrote:

eddie wrote:

But come on! Who is stupid enough to sit there like that with a fuckind dead baby in their bag? Who is stupid enough to be told to wait there and accept it??

Eddie, you do realise how people are traumatized do you not?

The fetus would have been about 4 inches long and she was asked to bring with her.

So what do you suggest she does, cause a seen and be escorted out by security?

She might ask the woman at the reception desk to hold the dead fetus for safe-keeping ... there is after all a chain-of-custody issue should it become evidence. Then just walk away and sit down.

Most American hospitals have a small morgue in the cellar. That, at least, was my intention. The Emergency Ward makes as much sense for a dead baby, as the Physical Therapy or Radiology Department.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Eddie, you do realise how people are traumatized do you not?

The fetus would have been about 4 inches long and she was asked to bring with her.

So what do you suggest she does, cause a seen and be escorted out by security?

She might ask the woman at the reception desk to hold the dead fetus for safe-keeping ... there is after all a chain-of-custody issue should it become evidence.  Then just walk away and sit down.

Most American hospitals have a small morgue in the cellar.  That, at least, was my intention.  The Emergency Ward makes as much sense for a dead baby, as the Physical Therapy or Radiology Department.

Now your first point is actually very good. She could have asked for this to be taken off her hands or for the nurse to organize porters to take the dead fetus to the Morgue. The question then is why the triage Nurse in A&E never did this.

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Eddie, you do realise how people are traumatized do you not?

The fetus would have been about 4 inches long and she was asked to bring with her.

So what do you suggest she does, cause a seen and be escorted out by security?

She might ask the woman at the reception desk to hold the dead fetus for safe-keeping ... there is after all a chain-of-custody issue should it become evidence.  Then just walk away and sit down.

Most American hospitals have a small morgue in the cellar.  That, at least, was my intention.  The Emergency Ward makes as much sense for a dead baby, as the Physical Therapy or Radiology Department.

You can't just walk into a morgue though, any more than you just walk into a radiology department. The women might have needed medical attention herself.

But there is the emotional side to this as well as the physical.

To her this was her baby, she had named him and to her it was her son not a half formed dead fetus to be passed over to a non medical receptionist who was probably rushed off her feet.

Syl wrote:But there is the emotional side to this as well as the physical.

To her this was her baby, she had named him and to her it was her son not a half formed dead fetus to be passed over to a non medical receptionist who was probably rushed off her feet.

It would not be to a receptionist.

They only take details from you after you have been seen by the triage nurse. As you are first seen by a triage nurse, who is generally a Sister.

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:But there is the emotional side to this as well as the physical.

To her this was her baby, she had named him and to her it was her son not a half formed dead fetus to be passed over to a non medical receptionist who was probably rushed off her feet.

It would not be to a receptionist.

They only take details from you after you have been seen by the triage nurse. As you are first seen by a triage nurse, who is generally a Sister.

I was answering Quills post that the mum could have handed her baby over to the receptionist Thor.

Yes the triage nurse could have helped, she/he usually sees you quite quickly ime.

Syl wrote:

Thorin wrote:


It would not be to a receptionist.

They only take details from you after you have been seen by the triage nurse. As you are first seen by a triage nurse, who is generally a Sister.

I was answering Quills post that the mum could have handed her baby over to the receptionist Thor.



Yes the triage nurse could have helped, she/he usually sees you quite quickly ime.

In my opinion Quill has a point here. Whether it be the receptionist or triage nurse, they could have organised for the fetus to be collected and taken to the morgue. This would have helped the situation in my opinion.

Thorin wrote:

Syl wrote:

I was answering Quills post that the mum could have handed her baby over to the receptionist Thor.



Yes the triage nurse could have helped, she/he usually sees you quite quickly ime.

In my opinion Quill has a point here. Whether it be the receptionist or triage nurse, they could have organised for the fetus to be collected and taken to the morgue. This would have helped the situation in my opinion.

Yes its a good point...not to hand it to the receptionist, but to a fully trained medic.
Obviously we would have to be in this womans shoes, but anything would have been less traumatic than sitting in A&E for hours, being physically sick, with the baby you had just delivered yourself in a bag beside you.

Thorin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Eddie, you do realise how people are traumatized do you not?

The fetus would have been about 4 inches long and she was asked to bring with her.

So what do you suggest she does, cause a seen and be escorted out by security?

She might ask the woman at the reception desk to hold the dead fetus for safe-keeping ... there is after all a chain-of-custody issue should it become evidence.  Then just walk away and sit down.

Most American hospitals have a small morgue in the cellar.  That, at least, was my intention.  The Emergency Ward makes as much sense for a dead baby, as the Physical Therapy or Radiology Department.

Now your first point is actually very good. She could have asked for this to be taken off her hands or for the nurse to organize porters to take the dead fetus to the Morgue. The question then is why the triage Nurse in A&E never did this.

That's why the story smells like bullshit. No way would any member of staff tell a woman to take a seat with her dead baby and wait.

eddie wrote:

Thorin wrote:

Now your first point is actually very good. She could have asked for this to be taken off her hands or for the nurse to organize porters to take the dead fetus to the Morgue. The question then is why the triage Nurse in A&E never did this.

That's why the story smells like bullshit.  No way would any member of staff tell a woman to take a seat with her dead baby and wait.  

Of course it could happen, if you see what busy A&E departments are like.

Its easy to say so in hindsight Eddie and this happens often, because its not treated as an emergency.

You should read the accounts of many women who have had to wait ages at A&E when having a miscarriage.

https://www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/advice-support-40/miscarriage-stillbirth-loss-child-boards-548/miscarriage-stillbirth-loss-child-49/1283289-experience-e-during-miscarriage-all.html

I've had miscarriages and I've never been to A&E - I have gone to the Early Pregnancy Unit in my local hospital along with all the other woman I've seen there.

Typically, you wouldn't need to go to A&E for a miscarriage. You can wait (taking painkillers) until morning and go to the EPU. There's nothing to be done if you lose a baby in early pregnancy but let nature take its course and A&E will simply send you home anyway. Not sure about over 16 weeks though, but still, you would typically go to the EPU and get admitted that way.

eddie wrote:I've had miscarriages and I've never been to A&E - I have gone to the Early Pregnancy Unit in my local hospital along with all the other woman I've seen there.

Typically, you wouldn't need to go to A&E for a miscarriage. You can wait (taking painkillers) until morning and go to the EPU. There's nothing to be done if you lose a baby in early pregnancy but let nature take its course. Not sure about over 16 weeks though, but still, you would typically go to the EPU and get admitted that way.

But that depends on the time of day Eddie. Which the Early Pregnancy Unit is not open 24 hours.

Again Midwifes will advise to attend A&E, especially OOH.

I think the whole process is wrong, and needs to change.

I agree it sounds shoddy but truly, midwives will advise on to wait till morning and attend the EPU as there's nothing to be done but let nature take its course.  
Painkillers are all you need in the way of medical assistance, unless of course you're over a certain amount of weeks and then you would possibly need to have a D&C or be induced to give birth.

But on the topic of treatment toward these ladies in A&E, it's very shabby and also why it's best to avoid it and wait it out until morning.

eddie wrote:I agree it sounds shoddy but truly, midwives will advise on to wait till morning and attend the EPU as there's nothing to be done but let nature take its course.  
Painkillers are all you need in the way of medical assistance, unless of course you're over a certain amount of weeks and then you would possibly need to have a D&C or be induced to give birth.

But on the topic of treatment toward these ladies in A&E, it's very shabby and also why it's best to avoid it and wait it out until morning.

That is not necessarily true they will advise to wait, especially, if they have heavy bleeding that continues.

Thorin wrote:

eddie wrote:I agree it sounds shoddy but truly, midwives will advise on to wait till morning and attend the EPU as there's nothing to be done but let nature take its course.  
Painkillers are all you need in the way of medical assistance, unless of course you're over a certain amount of weeks and then you would possibly need to have a D&C or be induced to give birth.

But on the topic of treatment toward these ladies in A&E, it's very shabby and also why it's best to avoid it and wait it out until morning.

That is not necessarily true they will advise to wait, especially, if they have heavy bleeding that continues.

I can tell you, that heavy bleeding and body parts are very much a part of a miscarriage and unless there's any sign of infection or other obvious complications, you have an early miscarriage at home.
There's nothing to be done.