SUE REID: These nurses from Down Under are in Britain and desperate to work for an understaffed NHS after the Grenfell Tower disaster - but red tape and a crazy English test stop them

First topic message reminder :

[*]Our overstretched health service urgently needs 40,000 more nurses
[*]England’s largest hospital trust, Barts Health in London, has 1,732 unfilled jobs
[*]Applications for university nurse training are also down by 23 per cent this year
[*]Meanwhile, the NHS turns down many highly trained foreign nurses


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4698328/Nurses-desperate-work-NHS.html#ixzz4mtNbSduN 
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Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Lol, so you say I made it up and then argue racially that Aussie nurses should only nurse in Australia.
Australian is a concept as is a white race.
So you are telling Nurses where they should nurse people based on race, an imaginary Australian race?

wow

How about letting them decide eh?

Clearly, if they want to nurse, but can't do it here, they should do it in Australia, where they can. It's just logical - something that you don't seem to be able to grasp.

You're the one bleating on about race, and claiming that Aussies are a race. Goodness knows why.

But they can do this here and are held up by red tape

So your view is even more racist

If they cannot be a nurse here, even though they could be world wide, you relegate them back to Australia.

It seems not only are you racist rags, but sexist too.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Oh dear, when all else fails, rags resorts to tantrums...

Asking you why you're trolling is not a tantrum. Have you been on the booze again?

Ah bless, anything else trickle?

I love you Rags  

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Clearly, if they want to nurse, but can't do it here, they should do it in Australia, where they can. It's just logical - something that you don't seem to be able to grasp.

You're the one bleating on about race, and claiming that Aussies are a race. Goodness knows why.

But they can do this here and are held up by red tape

So your view is even more racist

If they cannot be a nurse here, even though they could be world wide, you relegate them back to Australia.

It seems not only are you racist rags, but sexist too.

So if they're held up, they can't do nursing. Why would it be relegating them? Are you suggesting that Australia is an inferior place? Who mentioned gender? I certainly didn't.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Asking you why you're trolling is not a tantrum. Have you been on the booze again?

Ah bless, anything else trickle?

I love you Rags  

It's a bit early to be hitting the bottle Didge. Go and have a lie down.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


But they can do this here and are held up by red tape

So your view is even more racist

If they cannot be a nurse here, even though they could be world wide, you relegate them back to Australia.

It seems not only are you racist rags, but sexist too.

So if they're held up, they can't do nursing. Why would it be relegating them? Are you suggesting that Australia is an inferior place? Who mentioned gender? I certainly didn't.

Of course they can do nursing, its red tape Rags.
Its not me suggesting anything but you
You want to ship them back to only be served to Aussies you racist  

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

So if they're held up, they can't do nursing. Why would it be relegating them? Are you suggesting that Australia is an inferior place? Who mentioned gender? I certainly didn't.

Of course they can do nursing, its red tape Rags.
Its not me suggesting anything but you
You want to ship them back to only be served to Aussies you racist  

Well they're not nursing are they? Isn't that the point of the article? Again, you're suggesting that Aussies are a race. Make up your mind, you daft moron.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Ah bless, anything else trickle?

I love you Rags  

It's a bit early to be hitting the bottle Didge. Go and have a lie down.

Ah sweetie, do you need a hug?  x

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's a bit early to be hitting the bottle Didge. Go and have a lie down.

Ah sweetie, do you need a hug?  x

No, but it sounds like you need a nurse ...

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Of course they can do nursing, its red tape Rags.
Its not me suggesting anything but you
You want to ship them back to only be served to Aussies you racist  

Well they're not nursing are they? Isn't that the point of the article? Again, you're suggesting that Aussies are a race. Make up your mind, you daft moron.

Show me anywhere that I suggest that Aussies are a race?

Its you that suggested that they should only be nurses to Aussies

I love how you get verbal, as you have lost the debate  

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Ah sweetie, do you need a hug?  x

No, but it sounds like you need a nurse ...

Happy to have one  

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Oh dear, when all else fails, rags resorts to tantrums...

Asking you why you're trolling is not a tantrum. Have you been on the booze again?

He is due his monthly injection to keep him sane...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Asking you why you're trolling is not a tantrum. Have you been on the booze again?

He is due his monthly injection to keep him sane...

Thank you for your unprofessional kind words Tommy

What can i say

Those very dim witted have no reply for my arguments.  

You have no arguments, and are obviously dim witted as you seem to believe that you do...


The rules on foreign nationals coming here to work are clear, and these 3 dont qualify.

Tommy Monk wrote:You have no arguments, and are obviously dim witted as you seem to believe that you do...


The rules on foreign nationals coming here to work are clear, and these 3 dont qualify.

 Ahhh bless Tommy has no argument and just invents one,

My mum was a nurse does she qualify?

You have no clue as to what makes a nurse do you Tommy?

So why do they not qualify Tommy?

Do they have the right to work here...?

Tommy Monk wrote:Do they have the right to work here...?

What is a right?

Second. What right do you need to save lives?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well they're not nursing are they? Isn't that the point of the article? Again, you're suggesting that Aussies are a race. Make up your mind, you daft moron.

Show me anywhere that I suggest that Aussies are a race?

Its you that suggested that they should only be nurses to Aussies

I love how you get verbal, as you have lost the debate  

No I didn't, I suggested that they should nurse in Australia if they can't nurse here. Are you suggesting that only Aussies live in Australia?

Thorin wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Do they have the right to work here...?

What is a right?

An entitlement.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Show me anywhere that I suggest that Aussies are a race?

Its you that suggested that they should only be nurses to Aussies

I love how you get verbal, as you have lost the debate  

No I didn't, I suggested that they should nurse in Australia if they can't nurse here. Are you suggesting that only Aussies live in Australia?

Suggested?

Really?

Why would you suggest it when its not about race?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


What is a right?

An entitlement.

Do you think Aussie Nurses need that?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

No I didn't, I suggested that they should nurse in Australia if they can't nurse here. Are you suggesting that only Aussies live in Australia?

Suggested?

Really?

Why would you suggest it when its not about race?

Yes, I suggested it. Australia is a country, not a race. You're obsessed with race, but at least you haven't slagged off Muslims in this thread yet.

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

An entitlement.

Do you think Aussie Nurses need that?

Anyone from another country does if they want to work here.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Suggested?

Really?

Why would you suggest it when its not about race?

Yes, I suggested it. Australia is a country, not a race. You're obsessed with race, but at least you haven't slagged off Muslims in this thread yet.

So if its a country why should Aussie nurses only be there for Aussies?

Seems its you obsessed with race hun

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


Do you think Aussie Nurses need that?

Anyone from another country does if they want to work here.

So anyone then?

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, I suggested it. Australia is a country, not a race. You're obsessed with race, but at least you haven't slagged off Muslims in this thread yet.

So if its a country why should Aussie nurses only be there for Aussies?

Seems its you obsessed with race hun

I didn't say they should. It's you who's obsessed with race.

It's been interesting watching you troll and wreck your own thread, but I'm off out now.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Thorin wrote:


So if its a country why should Aussie nurses only be there for Aussies?

Seems its you obsessed with race hun

I didn't say they should. It's you who's obsessed with race.

It's been interesting watching you troll and wreck your own thread, but I'm off out now.

Did you not?

You said they should be nurses for Aussie patients and not nurses here

Seems you are back tracking hun

Bye hun

They come here for the Macho English men, being fed up with Sun bronzed muscle bound Aussies.

nicko wrote:They come here for the Macho English men, being fed up with Sun bronzed muscle bound Aussies.

I would have said they just came here for real men mate. 

I second that !

I just read the article... seems that they are here on work visas, and already working in other jobs, but they have failed to pass the tests required to be accepted as NHS nurses...

Tommy Monk wrote:I just read the article... seems that they are here on work visas, and already working in other jobs, but they have failed to pass the tests required to be accepted as NHS nurses...

The English test, when they speak English

If they are so great at English... why did they fail...?

Tommy Monk wrote:

If they are so great at English... why did they fail...?

When do many English people fail English in schools Tommy?

Because their level of English is not up to the academic level that is required...

Tommy Monk wrote:

Because their level of English is not up to the academic level that is required...

What level is required in order to do nursing?

A certain level has been set which must be achieved to obtain a pass...

Plenty of people pass... they didnt pass... they failed... simple...!


I dont know the 'ins and outs' of what the test consists of... but if someone with English as their first language has failed a test of their academic level of understanding of English, then that says more about them and their lack of ability than anything else...!


Do you want NHS nurses to be of a high standard, and for them to get things right in patient care... or do you want lower level standards and nurses who are more likely to get things wrong, ie mistakes in administering medicines/dosages etc, and patients being put at risk and dying...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:A certain level has been set which must be achieved to obtain a pass...

Plenty of people pass... they didnt pass... they failed... simple...!


I dont know the 'ins and outs' of what the test consists of... but if someone with English as their first language has failed a test of their academic level of understanding of English, then that says more about them and their lack of ability than anything else...!


Do you want NHS nurses to be of a high standard, and for them to get things right in patient care... or do you want lower level standards and nurses who are more likely to get things wrong, ie mistakes in administering medicines/dosages etc, and patients being put at risk and dying...!?

In English?

No, as its not necessary in nursing. As long as they can read, speak and understand English is all that matters.

Do you really think English comprehension is necessary for Nursing?

Behave

Plenty of people pass...

Plenty of people pass who dont have English as their first language...

These in the op with English as their native language, should have sailed through this English test...

They must be real idiots to have failed!!!


Next week you'll be telling us how a footballer failed a football club trial by not being able to kick a ball in a ball kicking test...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

Plenty of people pass...

Plenty of people pass who dont have English as their first language...

These in the op with English as their native language, should have sailed through this English test...

They must be real idiots to have failed!!!


Next week you'll be telling us how a footballer failed a football club trial by not being able to kick a ball in a ball kicking test...!!!

Again you are avoiding the issue, that they are already qualified nurses and your comparison was about as dumb, as Dumbo with big ears. You are now saying that a Nurse  cannot be a nurse if they are blind, or deaf etc? That they need to speak in order to be a qualified Nurse?

Behave, the fact of the matter is that English comprehension should not be a necessity when they are already qualified nurses.

You claim idiots? Yet they are far more knowledgeable than you medically and biology wise.

And you claim they are idiots, being as they on any given day could help saves lives where you could not and you claim they are idiots?

So by your reasoning, if you have failed at any subjects, this means you are an idiot also Tommy?

They are not qualified nurses in the recognised UK academic level of certification...

But they have been given a way in, on the strength of the non UK qualifications that they have... provided that they are able to pass some tests...

They failed... so were not accepted...

Others passed and were accepted...!


If they want to get in, then they have to pass the tests...!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:They are not qualified nurses in the recognised UK academic level of certification...

But they have been given a way in, on the strength of the non UK qualifications that they have... provided that they are able to pass some tests...

They failed... so were not accepted...

Others passed and were accepted...!


If they want to get in, then they have to pass the tests...!!!

Yes they are qualified and no where does it state that the Uk does not recognize that they are.

You just made that load of crap up..

They failed an English test, not a test on nursing.

So do you see how and why that is wrong to do, when we have a vast shortage of Nurses?

That the standard bar is set to high?

If they were UK qualified nurses then they would have been accepted straight away... not asked to pass any of the tests that are set for those who arent UK qualified nurses...

Tommy Monk wrote:

If they were UK qualified nurses then they would have been accepted straight away... not asked to pass any of the tests that are set for those who arent UK qualified nurses...

But that is not the case is it, when they have to pass English tests.

So again you are making up a load or rubbish again Tommy

The fact you back this view to set the bar to high based on English comprehension and not actual qualifications in nursing. Shows why what is drastically wrong today and why we have a mass shortage of nurses.

Nurses have to write prescriptions sometimes, or write letters, and they have to be able to communicate with patients.

The process of registering as a nurse in the NHS can take up to a year and cost more than £3,000.

‘It involves a compulsory English language test, which is surely superfluous to native speakers from New Zealand and Australia.’ Her experience is shared by many other Australian and New Zealand nurses here.

In this picture are 11 who came to Britain hoping to join the NHS, yet none has been able to do so.

Many blame the ‘unnecessary’ and ‘difficult’ English language test, which is compulsory for all foreign nurses, even if they are from English-speaking countries.

All nurses from overseas must pass this language test to register with the Nursing and Midwifery Council before they can work at an NHS hospital. The test has four elements — speaking, listening, reading and writing. Foreign nurses also have to do a computer-based theory test and a practical clinical test.

If nurses are recruited by NHS trusts, which head-hunt in India and the Philippines, they can be sponsored for a five-year visa and do the bulk of the testing before they arrive here.

If, however, like many Australian and New Zealand nurses, they come here on a standard two-year working visa, they often take the tests in the UK — a process they have criticised as overly demanding and slow.

Calls for an easier English language test in particular have come after devastating revelations about the failure rates.
This week, one hospital trust revealed that only three of 111 applicants for NHS jobs from the Philippines had passed the exam.

Directors at Walsall Manor Hospital in the West Midlands said the exam overseen by the Nursing and Midwifery Council is too tough.
But critics see a particular irony in the fact that the test, which asks candidates to understand complex medical and academic articles, is obstructing nurses who speak English as a first language.

Campaigners for a change in the rules say the standards of the English test, in which candidates need to score seven out of a possible nine marks to pass, are the equivalent of Oxford University’s English language requirements for its international undergraduates.


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Raggamuffin wrote:Nurses have to write prescriptions sometimes, or write letters, and they have to be able to communicate with patients.

That is incorrect, as only Nurse practitioners can write prescriptions.

Which is a much higher level of Nursing.

1. Courtney Brown
Working as an agency carer, Courtney, 29, lives in London.
‘I started trying to be an NHS nurse in January 2016 so it has taken 19 months so far,’ says the critical care nurse from the Melbourne Royal Children’s Hospital in Australia.

‘Everything has to be sent by post. There was a problem because two of my references were emailed by mistake. My visa runs out in May and if I don’t get the registration I’ll have to go home.’

2. Claire Brady
The 26-year-old Australian is personal carer for an elderly man in Chelsea. Claire has a nursing degree and experience in emergency and recovery. She says: ‘There are a huge number of nurses from my country and New Zealand in the UK whose skills are going to waste in roles such as nannying, personal care and waitressing.’

3. Georgia van Zantvoort
The 24-year-old from Auckland, New Zealand, lives in Shepherd’s Bush, West London, and works as an adviser for an East London occupational health company.

‘Back home I’m an accident and emergency nurse. I have a two-year visa and I know it can take nearly that time to complete the tests leading up to NHS registration. It can cost more than £3,000 and I might only be a nurse here for a few months.’

4. Miriam Petterson
She has a nursing degree and worked for six years in a GP practice in New Zealand. At 29, Miriam also passed a specialist diploma from the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Yet she is a nanny in Essex. Bizarrely, she failed the English test the first time, although her degree was in English. ‘I thought it was odd. I feel they set you up for failure.’

5. Mel Reed
The 23-year-old New Zealander has a nursing degree but works as an ophthalmic technician in Harley Street, London.
‘My visa is for two years and becoming an NHS nurse is such a long process. I decided that by the time I took the exams and did all the paperwork, I would have to go home again.’

6. Ingrid Matthews
A live-in nanny for a family in Putney, South-West London, Ingrid, 25, is from Melbourne, Australia. She has a degree in nursing and midwifery and came to London last September hoping to join the NHS. But the lengthy process has discouraged her. ‘A lot of nursing practice in my country originated here in London, yet still we can’t get a job here.’

7. Sophie Newcombe
The specialised respiratory nurse lives in Bayswater, West London, and is working as a nanny and switchboard operator. She was put off trying to become an NHS nurse because the process is so daunting.
Sophie, 25, says: ‘The nursing school I went to is one of the top ones in New Zealand. It took me three years at university and a year of postgraduate study to get my qualification, and apparently it means nothing here in the UK.’

8. Sarah Hindmarsh
A 29-year-old from Wellington, New Zealand, Sarah has a nursing degree but works as an adviser for an occupational health company in East London. She has a British passport (because her mother emigrated from Kent) and back home she ran a night ward.
However, she has twice failed the practical exam to become an NHS nurse and has given up. ‘I would now have to start again and that would cost another £3,000.’

9. Taylah Brackin
The Australian, 23, has a nursing degree and worked for two years at a large Queensland hospital before arriving here in April.
‘I started the process of registration by sitting the English test. I needed a mark of seven but got 6.5. I have a two-year visa and the whole process was going to last months, then I’d only have a short time left to work as a nurse.’
Now a teaching assistant living in Clapham, South London, she adds: ‘My nursing experience is being wasted.’

10. Chloe Horton
A general nurse from New Zealand living in Peterborough, 30-year-old Chloe works as a hospital healthcare assistant. She has been in the UK for 18 months and failed part of the clinical test necessary to be an NHS nurse.

Her visa runs out in November and because of time delays she is going to go home: ‘I am told half the nurses from Australia and New Zealand fail this clinical test the first time. It’s unfair we have to do an English language exam.’

11. Charlotte Rosenberg
Working as a nanny and living in Wandsworth Common, London, Charlotte, 25, has a nursing degree and was an orthopaedic nurse for 18 months before coming to Britain five weeks ago.
She is to start taking the exams leading to NHS registration soon. The English exam, the first, costs about £160: ‘English is the only language I speak and to be tested on it is so frustrating.’


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You have to take the same kind of test to get into Australia. So it seems it's something of a requirement for work and immigration.

Here's a link to what is required in the test.

https://www.ielts.org/about-the-test/test-format-in-detail

Thorin wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Nurses have to write prescriptions sometimes, or write letters, and they have to be able to communicate with patients.

That is incorrect, as only Nurse practitioners can write prescriptions.

Which is a much higher level of Nursing.

Perhaps some of them are nurse practitioners. I know that I've had a prescription written by a nurse at my GPs.