Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
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Raggamuffin
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Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
First topic message reminder :
Thousands of people gathered in central London on Saturday for the capital’s Women’s March.
Millions of people are expected to attend marches across the world to support womens’ rights - in a show of force on the first full day of Donald Trump’s presidency.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/women-s-march-london-pictures-video_uk_588361f0e4b0b8867de7ee81?ai38lqo21qq6w29&utm_hp_ref=uk
Video's on link
Thousands of people gathered in central London on Saturday for the capital’s Women’s March.
Millions of people are expected to attend marches across the world to support womens’ rights - in a show of force on the first full day of Donald Trump’s presidency.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/women-s-march-london-pictures-video_uk_588361f0e4b0b8867de7ee81?ai38lqo21qq6w29&utm_hp_ref=uk
Video's on link
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
eddie wrote:If people didn't vote then they aren't included in the numbers! It's really that simple.
You can't say that those who didn't vote would've voted to stay - doesn't matter what they say after the event.
The majority of people who voted, voted to leave. No other answer is needed.
Nothing is set in stone
That is like saying that the next election cannot be about joining the EU or having a referendum
So its not that simple
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Tommy Monk wrote:Thorin wrote:
I agree, hence why it should only be about those voting to leave to be the ones voting, requiring a 50%+ majority
Of those who voted... 52% voted leave!!!
That is over 50%... so therefore a majority over 50%.
Come again?
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Only the votes that are cast are the votes that count dodge...
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Raggamuffin wrote:eddie wrote:If people didn't vote then they aren't included in the numbers! It's really that simple.
You can't say that those who didn't vote would've voted to stay - doesn't matter what they say after the event.
The majority of people who voted, voted to leave. No other answer is needed.
Exactly. These polls after the event aren't going to be accurate because those who didn't vote might have all kinds of reasons for saying they want to stay now, and they might have felt differently at the time of the vote - if they were at all bothered. If they weren't bothered at the time of the vote and then decided later that they were, well it's too late.
So if he next general election is based on returning to the EU, will their vote not matter?
You see, you far right worshipers make me laugh
Not only can you fail to understand basic maths, you think a referendum is set in stone, wrongly think that 38% of the populous voting to leave is a majority, claiming the people has spoken and as sen its actually a minority. You then claim even more gibberish claiming the polls are inaccurate off even more unfounded claims. It shows how desperate the leave voters really truly are on this issue.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Tommy Monk wrote:Only the votes that are cast are the votes that count dodge...
Yes, we know that a minority of people voted to leave
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
An even smaller minority voted to remain...
Leave won!!!
Leave won!!!
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Tommy Monk wrote:An even smaller minority voted to remain...
Leave won!!!
But the majority of the people of the Uk did not vote to leave
It was 38%, so as you claim the people have no spoken
Leave could take a big kick up he arse by he courts this week
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Thorin wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
Exactly. These polls after the event aren't going to be accurate because those who didn't vote might have all kinds of reasons for saying they want to stay now, and they might have felt differently at the time of the vote - if they were at all bothered. If they weren't bothered at the time of the vote and then decided later that they were, well it's too late.
So if he next general election is based on returning to the EU, will their vote not matter?
You see, you far right worshipers make me laugh
Not only can you fail to understand basic maths, you think a referendum is set in stone, wrongly think that 38% of the populous voting to leave is a majority, claiming the people has spoken and as sen its actually a minority. You then claim even more gibberish claiming the polls are inaccurate off even more unfounded claims. It shows how desperate the leave voters really truly are on this issue.
Assuming that I'm a "far right worshipper" because I think it's impractical to keep on having referendums is not logical Didge. Discounting the people who didn't bother to vote doesn't make me a "far right worshipper either", and neither does claiming that polls which don't ask the right questions are inaccurate.
Why would leave voters be desperate? They won.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Raggamuffin wrote:Thorin wrote:
So if he next general election is based on returning to the EU, will their vote not matter?
You see, you far right worshipers make me laugh
Not only can you fail to understand basic maths, you think a referendum is set in stone, wrongly think that 38% of the populous voting to leave is a majority, claiming the people has spoken and as sen its actually a minority. You then claim even more gibberish claiming the polls are inaccurate off even more unfounded claims. It shows how desperate the leave voters really truly are on this issue.
Assuming that I'm a "far right worshipper" because I think it's impractical to keep on having referendums is not logical Didge. Discounting the people who didn't bother to vote doesn't make me a "far right worshipper either", and neither does claiming that polls which don't ask the right questions are inaccurate.
Why would leave voters be desperate? They won.
There is no assumption Rags, I am doing this based off your views
Its not up to you to decide whether they are impractical
I proved today the one held was impractical and undemocratic, as only 38% of the populace votd to leave
They are desperate as th courts are going to rule against the Government this week
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Thorin wrote:Tommy Monk wrote:An even smaller minority voted to remain...
Leave won!!!
But the majority of the people of the Uk did not vote to leave
It was 38%, so as you claim the people have no spoken
Leave could take a big kick up he arse by he courts this week
Even less voted to remain!!!
Stop twisting oliver!
Only the votes cast are counted... and result is based on those.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Tommy Monk wrote:Thorin wrote:
But the majority of the people of the Uk did not vote to leave
It was 38%, so as you claim the people have no spoken
Leave could take a big kick up he arse by he courts this week
Even less voted to remain!!!
Stop twisting oliver!
Only the votes cast are counted... and result is based on those.
Come again?
So based on the votes counted a minority voted to leave something we are already in
Thus undemocratic
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Going by votes counted even less voted to stay...
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Thorin wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
Assuming that I'm a "far right worshipper" because I think it's impractical to keep on having referendums is not logical Didge. Discounting the people who didn't bother to vote doesn't make me a "far right worshipper either", and neither does claiming that polls which don't ask the right questions are inaccurate.
Why would leave voters be desperate? They won.
There is no assumption Rags, I am doing this based off your views
Its not up to you to decide whether they are impractical
I proved today the one held was impractical and undemocratic, as only 38% of the populace votd to leave
They are desperate as th courts are going to rule against the Government this week
Then your powers of reasoning are flawed Didge. It's not up to you to decide that it would be practical. In fact, it stands to reason that it wouldn't be. You can't keep on having another one and another until you get the result you want. You could end up with hundreds of them. The one we had was not impractical. Everyone who was registered to vote had the chance to do so, and some of them failed to do so.
So do you really think that MPs will risk going against their constituents and voting to stay? They would be voted out in the next election.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Tommy Monk wrote:Going by votes counted even less voted to stay...
Come again?
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Raggamuffin wrote:Thorin wrote:
There is no assumption Rags, I am doing this based off your views
Its not up to you to decide whether they are impractical
I proved today the one held was impractical and undemocratic, as only 38% of the populace votd to leave
They are desperate as th courts are going to rule against the Government this week
Then your powers of reasoning are flawed Didge. It's not up to you to decide that it would be practical. In fact, it stands to reason that it wouldn't be. You can't keep on having another one and another until you get the result you want. You could end up with hundreds of them. The one we had was not impractical. Everyone who was registered to vote had the chance to do so, and some of them failed to do so.
So do you really think that MPs will risk going against their constituents and voting to stay? They would be voted out in the next election.
Nothing flawed about them Rags
We keep having general elections every 4 years, so that dispels your view point, because we keep constantly changing Governments. IF people want to vote that many times that is up to them
How are they risking going against their constituents, when they represent 38% of the voting populace?
So 38% is going to wipe them out at the next election?
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
What is wrong with you dodge...!?
There was a very well publicised vote on an issue... all the people who wanted to vote and who were eligible to vote, did cast their vote... the issue was decided by the result of the vote!
Result was majority in favour of leaving eu.
There was a very well publicised vote on an issue... all the people who wanted to vote and who were eligible to vote, did cast their vote... the issue was decided by the result of the vote!
Result was majority in favour of leaving eu.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Didge, you're being childish - try to control yourself and stop posting silly gifs.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Tommy Monk wrote:What is wrong with you dodge...!?
There was a very well publicised vote on an issue... all the people who wanted to vote and who were eligible to vote, did cast their vote... the issue was decided by the result of the vote!
Result was majority in favour of leaving eu.
Yes a minority of 38% voted to leave the EU
Nothing is ever set in stone
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Raggamuffin wrote:Didge, you're being childish - try to control yourself and stop posting silly gifs.
By laughing at your both your poor maths and views?
I think its hysterical, especially your maths
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
And an even smaller number voted to remain... so leave won.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Tommy Monk wrote:And an even smaller number voted to remain... so leave won.
Which still does not make the leave vote a majority when its 38% of the British populous
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Thorin wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
Then your powers of reasoning are flawed Didge. It's not up to you to decide that it would be practical. In fact, it stands to reason that it wouldn't be. You can't keep on having another one and another until you get the result you want. You could end up with hundreds of them. The one we had was not impractical. Everyone who was registered to vote had the chance to do so, and some of them failed to do so.
So do you really think that MPs will risk going against their constituents and voting to stay? They would be voted out in the next election.
Nothing flawed about them Rags
We keep having general elections every 4 years, so that dispels your view point, because we keep constantly changing Governments. IF people want to vote that many times that is up to them
How are they risking going against their constituents, when they represent 38% of the voting populace?
So 38% is going to wipe them out at the next election?
In constituencies where the leave vote prevailed, an MP going against them could lose them their seat. In addition, some people who didn't even vote to leave might not trust them because they're not representing their constituents.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Dodge... it's only the votes that were cast that count!!!
No vote = no say!!!
No vote = no say!!!
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Raggamuffin wrote:Thorin wrote:
Nothing flawed about them Rags
We keep having general elections every 4 years, so that dispels your view point, because we keep constantly changing Governments. IF people want to vote that many times that is up to them
How are they risking going against their constituents, when they represent 38% of the voting populace?
So 38% is going to wipe them out at the next election?
In constituencies where the leave vote prevailed, an MP going against them could lose them their seat. In addition, some people who didn't even vote to leave might not trust them because they're not representing their constituents.
But you are under the false presumption that Brexit is the biggest priority for people
Its not
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Thorin wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:Didge, you're being childish - try to control yourself and stop posting silly gifs.
By laughing at your both your poor maths and views?
I think its hysterical, especially your maths
Didge, get real. If there was another referendum, nobody would know in advance what the turnout would be, and nobody would know how many would vote which way. Do you really think that any Government would keep on having referendums until they got the result you wanted? That's just laughable and you're just losing it now.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Thorin wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
In constituencies where the leave vote prevailed, an MP going against them could lose them their seat. In addition, some people who didn't even vote to leave might not trust them because they're not representing their constituents.
But you are under the false presumption that Brexit is the biggest priority for people
Its not
That's not the point. The point is that people want to trust their MP.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Raggamuffin wrote:Thorin wrote:
By laughing at your both your poor maths and views?
I think its hysterical, especially your maths
Didge, get real. If there was another referendum, nobody would know in advance what the turnout would be, and nobody would know how many would vote which way. Do you really think that any Government would keep on having referendums until they got the result you wanted? That's just laughable and you're just losing it now.
Based on numerous polls a second referendum would vote to remain
You do not even need to have one, parties can make it a priority to leave, join, remain in the next general election
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Raggamuffin wrote:Thorin wrote:
But you are under the false presumption that Brexit is the biggest priority for people
Its not
That's not the point. The point is that people want to trust their MP.
How many people do you know that trust MP's?
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Thorin wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
Didge, get real. If there was another referendum, nobody would know in advance what the turnout would be, and nobody would know how many would vote which way. Do you really think that any Government would keep on having referendums until they got the result you wanted? That's just laughable and you're just losing it now.
Based on numerous polls a second referendum would vote to remain
You do not even need to have one, parties can make it a priority to leave, join, remain in the next general election
We never voted to give away any of our sovereign democratic powers to the eu... these were stolen bit by bit... once we have left eu and regained them all... nobody in their right mind would be voting to give any away in future.
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Tommy Monk wrote:Thorin wrote:
Based on numerous polls a second referendum would vote to remain
You do not even need to have one, parties can make it a priority to leave, join, remain in the next general election
We never voted to give away any of our sovereign democratic powers to the eu... these were stolen bit by bit... once we have left eu and regained them all... nobody in their right mind would be voting to give any away in future.
We have never given up our sovereign democratic powers
The EU has legislation that the Uk adapts to British law
Hence your myth of 75% and understanding of the law is flawed
https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
https://youtu.be/Nc3Z10-bOYA
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Tommy Monk wrote:
https://youtu.be/Nc3Z10-bOYA
Its a myth
In brief: Simply counting laws does not consider that some laws have more impact than others. Quoted figures have varied wildly from under 10% to 70%. It's possible to justify many of these, depending on which definition of 'UK law' you look at, but those at the higher end count EU rules that aren’t really laws in any meaningful sense.
Counting the uncountable
It makes little sense to treat major Acts of Parliament such as the 457-page Health and Social Care Act 2012 which reformed the whole NHS the same as, say, three pages of technical regulations on VAT fraud.The House of Commons Library has warned that "there is no totally accurate, rational or useful way of calculating the percentage of national laws based on or influenced by the EU."
So no set of figures can give us a good measure of the influence of the EU on law in the UK.
It’s more meaningful to look at specific sectors and areas of law.
In agriculture, fisheries, external trade, and the environment, it’s fair to say that EU legislation and policy is indeed the main driver of UK law and policy, although the UK retains some freedom of action in these areas.
In other important areas—for example, welfare and social security, education, criminal law, family law and the NHS—the direct influence of the EU is far more limited.
Estimates range from 13% to 65%, although all have problems
In 2010, the House of Commons library published a comprehensive analysis of the variety of ways this percentage can be calculated. There are difficulties with all measurements, but it concluded "it is possible to justify any measure between 15% and 50% or thereabouts".
Since then, part of its analysis has been updated, and other estimates have been produced, for example by the campaign group Business for Britain.
The figures depend on which UK law is included in the calculation, and the extent of 'EU influence' that we look at.
There’s no single definition of ‘UK law’. Rules made by judges have the force of law, for example, but counting them up is probably impossible.
Setting those aside, the main types of laws in the UK are Acts put in place by the UK Parliament, rules and regulations drawn up by ministers known as Statutory Instruments, and regulations produced by the EU which apply automatically.
An estimated 13% of Acts and Statutory Instruments have an EU influence, whereas that rises to 62% when EU regulations are included in addition to Acts and Statutory Instruments.
And simply counting up the variety of 'EU influenced' UK laws, which vary from Acts to protect against terrorism through to restrictions on Moldovan milk, does not provide a conclusive picture.
The other thing to bear in mind is that in areas for which the EU is responsible, EU laws override any conflicting laws of member countries. So there’s an overall influence in these areas that is harder to count.
Calculating the 13% figure
The first method takes UK Acts and Statutory Instruments which put in place, or refer to, things the UK has to do under EU law.
This varies from ones which make only a passing reference to EU obligations to ones where the main purpose is to implement EU obligations.
The House of Commons Library found that between 1993 and 2014, 13%of these two types of law were EU-related, on average.
13% is likely to be too low, in reality, but 62% is much too high
This first method doesn’t consider all legal influence that the EU has on the UK. Some EU initiatives don’t need to be made into laws at a national level as they are implemented through 'EU regulations'.
EU regulations automatically have binding legal force in every EU member country. The important ones are usually agreed by government representatives on the EU’s Council, as well as by the directly elected European Parliament.
Some of these are important: big businesses considering a merger will need to know a lot about the EU Merger Regulation, for example.
But some of these EU regulations are about things like tobacco growing in the Canary Islands or whether Danish ships can catch mackerel, which won’t directly impact on the UK.
Many others are relevant but highly technical: assigning a customs code to light-up plastic skulls, or the regular calculation of the ‘standard import value’ for fruits and vegetables. They’re made by the European Commission on its own, without going through the main lawmaking process.
These kinds of decisions are more like what a civil servant or even a local council might decide in the UK, which reflects the fact that the Commission isn’t like any one UK government body. Its output consists both of important laws and proposals for laws, as well as mundane administrative decisions.
So while leaving EU regulations out of the count of ‘UK laws’ is likely to underestimate EU influence, including them is likely to overestimate it.
Counting them all would give you a figure of around 62% over the past 20 years. Business for Britain says this figure is 65%, but that analysis includes corrections to laws.
Legal experts have described this method as “comparing apples with pears”. As many of these are administrative decisions passed in the forms of laws, you could compare them to all the decisions made in government departments rather than Acts and Statutory Instruments passed by parliament.
All this goes to show the difficulties of these counting exercises in the first place.
Mix-ups with the European Parliament
Sometimes a figure of 70% has been used, including in 2014 by Viviane Reding, then Vice-President of the European Commission. But her office told us that she meant the percentage of EU laws that the European Parliament and the Council have had an equal say on. The EU now says it’s “about 80%”.
The rest, her office said, are either decided solely by the Council, or with Parliament giving the Council consent to them being passed.
This isn’t counting regulations passed by the European Commission.
The official position of the European Parliament is that "a big portion of the laws adopted by the House of Commons and House of Lords actually are EU-laws that are made into national laws by the national parliaments". When we asked for its source, the Parliament cited the House of Commons Library research discussed here, as well as examples from elsewhere in Europe.
https://fullfact.org/europe/uk-law-what-proportion-influenced-eu/
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
EU initiatives don’t need to be made into laws at a national level as they are implemented through 'EU regulations'.
EU regulations automatically have binding legal force in every EU member country..
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Re: Women’s March London: Thousands Take To The Streets In Startling Show Of Strength
Some of these are brilliant!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/11-best-banners-womens-march-london/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/11-best-banners-womens-march-london/
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