EU negotiators will offer Brits an individual opt-in to remain EU citizens, chief negotiator confirms

First topic message reminder :

Exclusive: Guy Verhofstadt has fast-tracked the plan and will include it in his mandate

EU negotiators will offer British people the chance to individually opt-in and remain EU citizens as a proposal in Brexit negotiations, the European Parliament’s chief negotiator has confirmed.
The plan, first revealed in its early stages by The Independent last month, was being considered as a long-term aim by the European Parliament – but has now been fast-tracked to the negotiating table by Guy Verhofstadt, who is in charge of thrashing out a post-Brexit deal.
Mr Verhofstadt said the “very important” proposal had “captured the imagination and hopes” of many British people who wished to retain their rights as EU citizens and would be in his negotiating mandate.

The plan would see Brits offered individual “associate citizenship”, letting them keep free movement to live and work across the EU, as well as a vote in European Parliament elections.
The proposal could potentially give Brits who live and work across borders a workaround to the disruption caused by the Leave vote – and young people looking to flee an increasingly isolated UK greater choice over where to move to.
Depending on the approach taken by EU negotiators, the idea would likely be subject to approval by the British Government.
Mr Verhofstadt is drawing up a report with the European Parliament’s Committee on Constitutional Affairs about proposed long-term changes to the EU’s structure. The plan was originally proposed by Luxembourg MEP Charles Goerens for inclusion in the report, but will now bypass that process and be taken forward independently.

The chief negotiator told the committee’s members: “We come to the vote of this important amendment 882, tabled by colleague Charles Goerens. It is an important amendment that has captured the imagination and hopes of many of the 48 per cent of Brits that have voted to remain in the EU. You will all have received many emails about this – and there has been many articles about this.

“It has therefore become a very important issue that cannot await treaty change – as envisaged by Charles when he first tabled it.
“I am therefore proposing to remove it from my report – which after all is concerned with Treaty change – and to include it in the negotiations we will have with the UK Government. I as Brexit negotiator for the Parliament will ensure that it is included in the parliament’s negotiating mandate.”
In a statement, Mr Goerens said: “Today I decided together with Guy Verhofstadt to withdraw my amendment on associate EU citizenship. We realised that this has become a very important issue that cannot await treaty change – as was my intention when I first tabled my amendment – since this might take years.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-citizenship-keep-freedom-of-movement-guy-verhofstadt-chief-negotiator-opt-in-passports-a7465271.html



Been talking to my grandchildren about this, it's something they definitely want to take up.

Ben Reilly wrote:Hey Tommy, you realize the timespan of that chart ends seven months before the referendum was held, right?

Ooops

United Kingdom Inflation Rate

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/inflation-cpi

I think this was the one you were looking for Tommy


http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/inflation-cpi


Why is UK inflation rising so quickly? Blame Brexit and the oil price
A 20% hike in petrol prices added to sterling’s 15% fall means the cost of living is rising fast. Expect 2% by spring, 3% by next Christmas

Gyrations in the oil market meant it was a stone-cold certainty that inflation would be on the rise in late 2016. This time last year the price of crude was crashing, which put strong downward pressure on the cost of living. The annual inflation rate is the sum of price movements in the latest 12 months, so last year’s price falls are gradually dropping out. As they do, inflation automatically goes up.
This trend is, however, is being amplified by two other factors. The first is that oil prices are not just holding steady: as a result of the deal between oil-producing countries to curb production they are going up. A year ago, it was possible to find unleaded petrol at around £1 a litre; this Christmas it will be £1.20 a litre.

The second factor is the 15% depreciation of the pound since the EU referendum in June. Although sterling has been edging higher for the past month, the lagged effect of its drop during the summer and early autumn is making imports dearer. A pick-up in producer price inflation – the cost of goods leaving factory gates – is early evidence of this effect.



https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/13/why-is-uk-inflation-rising-quickly-blame-brexit-oil-price 







The UK is a net IMPORTER, therefore when the £ falls, the cost of imports is higher, making the products made from those imports costlier and inflation rises:





October 2016 
 
Date: 9 December 2016
 
Coverage: United Kingdom 
 
Theme: Business & Energy
 
In October 2016 the value of exports (EU and Non-EU) increased to £26.8 billion, while imports (EU and Non-EU) decreased to £39.6 billion, compared with last month. Consequently the UK is a net importer this month, with imports exceeding exports by £12.8 billion.
 



https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/OTS.aspx

Great minds Spindleshanks lol

sassy wrote:Great minds Spindleshanks lol

Ben Reilly wrote:Hey Tommy, you realize the timespan of that chart ends seven months before the referendum was held, right?

Yes...

And that is relevant how exactly...?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Hey Tommy, you realize the timespan of that chart ends seven months before the referendum was held, right?

Yes...

And that is relevant how exactly...?

I think Tommy has just shown why so many know what a complete idiot Tommy is.

Tommy Monk wrote:

Ben Reilly wrote:Hey Tommy, you realize the timespan of that chart ends seven months before the referendum was held, right?

Yes...

And that is relevant how exactly...?

I'm beginning to think you are taking the piss.

Spindleshanks wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Yes...

And that is relevant how exactly...?

I'm beginning to think you are taking the piss.

Nah, that would be too hard for Tommy, you have to know what you are talking about in the first place to take the piss lol

sassy wrote:I think this was the one you were looking for Tommy


http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/inflation-cpi


Why is UK inflation rising so quickly? Blame Brexit and the oil price
A 20% hike in petrol prices added to sterling’s 15% fall means the cost of living is rising fast. Expect 2% by spring, 3% by next Christmas

Gyrations in the oil market meant it was a stone-cold certainty that inflation would be on the rise in late 2016. This time last year the price of crude was crashing, which put strong downward pressure on the cost of living. The annual inflation rate is the sum of price movements in the latest 12 months, so last year’s price falls are gradually dropping out. As they do, inflation automatically goes up.
This trend is, however, is being amplified by two other factors. The first is that oil prices are not just holding steady: as a result of the deal between oil-producing countries to curb production they are going up. A year ago, it was possible to find unleaded petrol at around £1 a litre; this Christmas it will be £1.20 a litre.

The second factor is the 15% depreciation of the pound since the EU referendum in June. Although sterling has been edging higher for the past month, the lagged effect of its drop during the summer and early autumn is making imports dearer. A pick-up in producer price inflation – the cost of goods leaving factory gates – is early evidence of this effect.



https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/13/why-is-uk-inflation-rising-quickly-blame-brexit-oil-price







The UK is a net IMPORTER, therefore when the £ falls, the cost of imports is higher, making the products made from those imports costlier and inflation rises:





October 2016
 
Date: 9 December 2016
 
Coverage: United Kingdom 
 
Theme: Business & Energy
 
In October 2016 the value of exports (EU and Non-EU) increased to £26.8 billion, while imports (EU and Non-EU) decreased to £39.6 billion, compared with last month. Consequently the UK is a net importer this month, with imports exceeding exports by £12.8 billion.
 



https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/OTS.aspx

Sassy... you know nothing about economics!


Look at the bits I have highlighted...


Inflation has been at a low point for a year or so... too low in fact (according to economic experts)...!

It is now rising a little bit... as was predicted a long time before the June referendum...

It is heading towards being back to the normal levels that we saw as an average during the 13 years of the last labour govt... isn't that level of inflation a good thing...?

Do you think the ideal level of inflation should be higher than the average of around 3% that we had under Labour, or lower, or about the same...?




If you actually bothered to read the 2nd bit I highlighted... you would see that our exports have risen and our imports decreased...

Don't you think this is a good thing...?





Now...

What does the fiscal policy of 'quantitive easing' entail the doing of...?

What is the resulting effect of this on a currency...?

And what effect do you think this has had on the value of the £ against other currencies...?

Controlled inflation is seen as healthy stimulus for the economy as a whole, but it can be a challenging beast to keep in check. The Government’s target inflation rate is set at 2pc, and anything over this figure can reduce the value of money, both for individuals and businesses.

Larger corporations are generally better positioned to bear the brunt of inflation, as it can be offset by savings generated by economies of scale. Small firms, however, often take a direct hit on margin.

High inflation can also have unexpected side effects: it can negatively affect currency exchange rates and bring about an export slump: rising prices in the UK make goods and services uncompetitive on a global scale.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/sme-home/low-inflation-business/

Good grief you're a fool.   No Tommy, I know nothing about economics, I was only a Finance Manager/Director.   You haven't got a bloody clue.

Lets hope inflation doesn't go over 2% eh Tommy.

We will be all right when we start Fracking,

nicko wrote:We will be all right when we start Fracking,      

Of course we will, poison the water table and cause earthquakes, people will stop worrying about economics then.

sassy wrote:Good grief you're a fool.   No Tommy, I know nothing about economics, I was only a Finance Manager/Director.   You haven't got a bloody clue.

So you will have absolutely no problem answering my simple questions then, sassy...!?


Come on... show us how clever you are and how much you know about economics...?


I'm waiting...

Tommy Monk wrote:

sassy wrote:Good grief you're a fool.   No Tommy, I know nothing about economics, I was only a Finance Manager/Director.   You haven't got a bloody clue.

So you will have absolutely no problem answering my simple questions then, sassy...!?


Come on... show us how clever you are and how much you know about economics...?


I'm waiting...

Very poor deflection Tommy.   Why do you think we laughed at where your table ended?


And why is the best way of showing how well an economy is doing the Trade Deficit figures?

Firms importing raw materials. Firms who import raw materials from Europe / rest of the world will face a large rise in costs. Some firms have no alternative but to import raw materials and goods from abroad. For example, companies importing champagne or Spanish food items to sell to British consumers will be facing a tough time because the Euros strength has reduced their profit margins.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/1882/economics/winners-and-losers-from-weak-pound/

So prices will rise and the consumer will suffer.

And not just the consumer. Companies will either reduce staff or not give pay rises in order to maintain profits.

sassy wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


So you will have absolutely no problem answering my simple questions then, sassy...!?


Come on... show us how clever you are and how much you know about economics...?


I'm waiting...

Very poor deflection Tommy.   Why do you think we laughed at where your table ended?

Because you are stupid and know nothing about economics, or inflation, or the economic relationship between inflation and our economy...!!!


I did ask for an explanation as to why this was even questioned... as I showed the recent 10+ year trend on inflation level...

We all know that inflation has been very very low from the period from graph end to now... and we all know that it has been very slowly/gradually rising throughout this year too...

So I really don't get the point of the questioning over the graph I posted... what is the point of the questioning...?



But... sassy... all this aside... can you please just answer the questions I asked you...?

Spindleshanks wrote:Firms importing raw materials. Firms who import raw materials from Europe / rest of the world will face a large rise in costs. Some firms have no alternative but to import raw materials and goods from abroad. For example, companies importing champagne or Spanish food items to sell to British consumers will be facing a tough time because the Euros strength has reduced their profit margins.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/1882/economics/winners-and-losers-from-weak-pound/

So prices will rise and the consumer will suffer.

And not just the consumer.  Companies will either reduce staff or not give pay rises in order to maintain profits.

Champagne and 'Spanish food items' (orange juice?)...?


Sorry to hear your morning glass of 'bucks fizz' might cost you a little more in future...!

Maybe you should consider having a gin and apple juice instead of a pay freeze or laying off of your household waiting staff...!

Look for yourself at what we import, the list is too long to post, AND ALL OF IT WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/imports

Tommy Monk wrote:

Spindleshanks wrote:Firms importing raw materials. Firms who import raw materials from Europe / rest of the world will face a large rise in costs. Some firms have no alternative but to import raw materials and goods from abroad. For example, companies importing champagne or Spanish food items to sell to British consumers will be facing a tough time because the Euros strength has reduced their profit margins.

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/1882/economics/winners-and-losers-from-weak-pound/

So prices will rise and the consumer will suffer.

And not just the consumer.  Companies will either reduce staff or not give pay rises in order to maintain profits.

Champagne and 'Spanish food items' (orange juice?)...?


Sorry to hear your morning glass of 'bucks fizz' might cost you a little more in future...!

Maybe you should consider having a gin and apple juice instead of a pay freeze or laying off of your household waiting staff...!

That was an example Tommy. A whole host of firms rely on imports for their raw materials.

Higher import costs will inevitably mean export prices increasing to offset the costs.

Higher export prices will mean people won't buy them which will mean eventually exports will fall.

Spindleshanks wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:


Champagne and 'Spanish food items' (orange juice?)...?


Sorry to hear your morning glass of 'bucks fizz' might cost you a little more in future...!

Maybe you should consider having a gin and apple juice instead of a pay freeze or laying off of your household waiting staff...!

That was an example Tommy.  A whole host of firms rely on imports for their raw materials.

Higher import costs will inevitably mean export prices increasing to offset the costs.

Higher export prices will mean people won't buy them which will mean eventually exports will fall.

Your argument = 'infinite loop error'...!

sassy wrote:Look for yourself at what we import, the list is too long to post, AND ALL OF IT WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/imports

Please just answer the questions I asked...!?

Tommy Monk wrote:

Spindleshanks wrote:

That was an example Tommy.  A whole host of firms rely on imports for their raw materials.

Higher import costs will inevitably mean export prices increasing to offset the costs.

Higher export prices will mean people won't buy them which will mean eventually exports will fall.

Your argument = 'infinite loop error'...!

You think i'm wrong?

Our imports do not have to come from EU countries.

nicko wrote:Our imports do not have to come from EU countries.

I never stated they did.

Spindleshanks wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:

Your argument = 'infinite loop error'...!

You think i'm wrong?

If you really think the simplistic nonsense view that only we would continue buying stuff at a slightly higher cost from others but everyone else will stop buying stuff from us if it subsequently meant the cost is slightly higher for them... then, yes... you have no idea what you are talking about!!!

Tommy Monk wrote:

sassy wrote:I think this was the one you were looking for Tommy


http://www.tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/inflation-cpi


Why is UK inflation rising so quickly? Blame Brexit and the oil price
A 20% hike in petrol prices added to sterling’s 15% fall means the cost of living is rising fast. Expect 2% by spring, 3% by next Christmas

Gyrations in the oil market meant it was a stone-cold certainty that inflation would be on the rise in late 2016. This time last year the price of crude was crashing, which put strong downward pressure on the cost of living. The annual inflation rate is the sum of price movements in the latest 12 months, so last year’s price falls are gradually dropping out. As they do, inflation automatically goes up.
This trend is, however, is being amplified by two other factors. The first is that oil prices are not just holding steady: as a result of the deal between oil-producing countries to curb production they are going up. A year ago, it was possible to find unleaded petrol at around £1 a litre; this Christmas it will be £1.20 a litre.

The second factor is the 15% depreciation of the pound since the EU referendum in June. Although sterling has been edging higher for the past month, the lagged effect of its drop during the summer and early autumn is making imports dearer. A pick-up in producer price inflation – the cost of goods leaving factory gates – is early evidence of this effect.



https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/dec/13/why-is-uk-inflation-rising-quickly-blame-brexit-oil-price







The UK is a net IMPORTER, therefore when the £ falls, the cost of imports is higher, making the products made from those imports costlier and inflation rises:





October 2016
 
Date: 9 December 2016
 
Coverage: United Kingdom 
 
Theme: Business & Energy
 
In October 2016 the value of exports (EU and Non-EU) increased to £26.8 billion, while imports (EU and Non-EU) decreased to £39.6 billion, compared with last month. Consequently the UK is a net importer this month, with imports exceeding exports by £12.8 billion.
 



https://www.uktradeinfo.com/Statistics/OverseasTradeStatistics/Pages/OTS.aspx

Sassy... you know nothing about economics!


Look at the bits I have highlighted...


Inflation has been at a low point for a year or so... too low in fact (according to economic experts)...!

It is now rising a little bit... as was predicted a long time before the June referendum...

It is heading towards being back to the normal levels that we saw as an average during the 13 years of the last labour govt... isn't that level of inflation a good thing...?

Do you think the ideal level of inflation should be higher than the average of around 3% that we had under Labour, or lower, or about the same...?




If you actually bothered to read the 2nd bit I highlighted... you would see that our exports have risen and our imports decreased...

Don't you think this is a good thing...?





Now...

What does the fiscal policy of 'quantitive easing' entail the doing of...?

What is the resulting effect of this on a currency...?

And what effect do you think this has had on the value of the £ against other currencies...?

Do you have any answers yet sassquatch?

FGS Tommy, you need a lesson or something.   It's simple enough.   The Bank of England, or any other central bank, but it's normally the Bank of England, buy Government stocks and/or bonds so that the Government can inject it back into the economy.   How well it works depends on what the Government does with it.   If they use it to be build infrastructure, back businesses to provide more jobs, etc etc it ups the economy which in it's turn raises the value of the £.   It's fairly straightforward and most kids could understand it.

For the naïve mind there is something miraculous in the issuance of fiat money. A magic word spoken by the government creates out of nothing a thing which can be exchanged against any merchandise a man would like to get. How pale is the art of sorcerers, witches, and conjurors when compared. - Ludwig von Mises


"...With the economy continuing to limp along, the Federal Reserve leaked to the Wall Street Journal last week its intent to further "stimulate" the economy in 2013; this after announcing a third round of quantitative easing (QE) in mid-September. The forward implications of such a move include currency depreciation, price increases in commodities... Empirical evidence reveals that new money creation leads directly to devaluation..."


http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntamny/2012/12/08/ben-bernankes-quantitative-easing-the-monetary-policy-of-the-adolescent/#44dd19cd3a1b

Now what about answering my other questions...?

Wow, Tommy's a gold bug! I never would have guessed

Ben Reilly wrote:Wow, Tommy's a gold bug! I never would have guessed

And your signature...


"False opinions are like false money, struck first of all by guilty men and thereafter circulated by honest people who perpetuate the crime without knowing what they are doing."

- Joseph de Maistre



False money what...?