Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming

by Ben Reilly Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:25 pm

As a conservative-leaning independent, Peter Bryn believes the government should play a limited role in the lives of its citizens, only getting involved where absolutely necessary to safeguard the lives and rights of its citizens.

As a former engineer for ExxonMobil and current conservative outreach director for the Citizens' Climate League, Bryn believes that reducing carbon pollution that leads to climate change is one of those areas.

"I was with Exxon for about eight years, and I was concerned about how we manage climate change and provide energy to the world affordably at the same time," Bryn said. "I'm a big believer in the policy approach that Exxon supported, which is very similar to what we at CCL support, which we call a carbon fee and dividend."

Bryn and other representatives of the Citizens' Climate League are touring the Southeastern states of Alabama, Mississippi, Florida and Louisiana this month as part of the group's Southern Energy Freedom Tour to make the case for their policy, which they see as a market-based approach to battling climate change that is preferable to increased regulations from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

The tour kicked off in Alabama with an event at Saint John's Episcopal Church in Mobile Thursday night, before heading to Pensacola Friday. The CCL tour will meet with church, civic or college groups in Dothan, Auburn, Montgomery, Tuscaloosa, Birmingham and Huntsville over the next several days.

Bryn said the CCL is a strictly non-partisan group that understands the importance of building conservative support for their proposals.

That can be tricky business when many prominent Republicans, including GOP presidential nominee Donald Trump, have expressed skepticism or outright denial that carbon emissions are contributing to climate change, despite a large body of scientific evidence pointing to that conclusion.

"When we talk about climate, what a lot of conservatives hear, or what we've traditionally heard in the past, is kind of a big government solution, a bunch of regulations, new taxes, all that kind of stuff," Bryn said. "It has traditionally been I think, a lack of policy options that align with the ideals of conservatives that has really kind of, strangely enough, backed itself into skepticism that there is a problem in the first place.

"That's not the right way to deal with it, but nevertheless, that's what's happened, I think."

Bryn also believes there is a generational gap in climate skepticism among Republicans. He cited surveys and focus groups conducted by the College Republican National Committee showing clean energy and climate change to be among the top priorities of young voters.

"I think that there are a lot of younger conservatives that want their party to be relevant on this," Bryn said. "And what they're hungry for is a solution."

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2016/10/conservative_case_for_climate.html

What a breath of fresh air. I have always hoped we'd get past the point of an endless discussion of whether global warming's real and people are causing it, and on to the discussion of what to do about it. I think this definitely pushes the conversation forward.

by Guest Sat Oct 15, 2016 11:40 pm

This is a welcome development - we have spent too much time squabbling while the problem deepens.

All good things come to those who wait. sunny

by eddie Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:56 am

It's a very real worry to me. And yes, let this thread be about solutions.

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:20 am

Yawn...

by 'Wolfie Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:42 am

EXXON...

ONE of the leading culprits complicit in fucking up our planet..

Now the arrogant and self-entitled oxygen thief bastards want carte blanche in finising the job !

All of those thieving cnuts should be lined up and shot.. Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming 3755771736

Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming 3755771736

by Ben Reilly Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:19 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Yawn...

You know, you and others try to make you out like a rebel here. You're not. You're the ultimate follower.

The conservative intelligentsia, sensing people would not favor a free-market solution to man-made climate change, bucked on the issue the only way they could buck -- by trying to deny the problem in the first place.

You, being the sheep that you are, just followed them when they grabbed you by the nose and said "come this way." You didn't think for yourself. You just followed their marching orders.

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 16, 2016 11:58 am

I have considered the scientific evidence and I have come to my own conclusions...

That is what is called 'thinking for oneself'...

Try it sometime... instead of following the waffle fed to you...

by 'Wolfie Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:04 pm

AND the worst thing about those silly little sheeple lickspit gits like Tommy and Major...

Those gormless and non-thinking corporate stooges are willing to do their lord_and_masters' bidding free of charge !!!

At least the bastard-minded industry lobbyists and company propagandists expect to be paid for their services.. Razz

by Tommy Monk Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:27 pm

Listen dog breath... I am against corporate/industrial and vehicle exhaust pollution and think much more needs to be done to force all to be much cleaner!

The fact remains that solar activity has increased over the last century and there is a direct correlation with that and the slight rise in temps we have seen over this time.

It is also true that we have been coming out of a cold period over the last few hundred years that is known as 'the mini ice age'... before this time it is known that temps were much warmer... much like they are at present time...

So it is highly arguable that we have just returned to normal temperatures!!!

by veya_victaous Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:16 am

well I just have to say as someone that grew up in semi-rural area that has become suburban there is a temp rise associated with urbanisation.
it never gets as cold; the pollution reduces the temp drop at night. literally a blanket of pollutants sits over populated areas that keep the heat in.

Now I am moving out to a semi-rural area again it has the same temp cycle i remember as a kid where there is a significant drop when the sun goes down.

when we look that at the spread of urbanisation and associated pollution around the world any suggestion that we are not going to the see the corresponding temperature rise is ridiculous

by Tommy Monk Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:00 pm

veya_victaous wrote:well I just have to say as someone that grew up in semi-rural area that has become suburban there is a temp rise associated with urbanisation.
it never gets as cold; the pollution reduces the temp drop at night. literally a blanket of pollutants sits over populated areas that keep the heat in.

Now I am moving out to a semi-rural area again it has the same temp cycle i remember as a kid where there is a significant drop when the sun goes down.

when we look that at the spread of urbanisation and associated pollution around the world any suggestion that we are not going to the see the corresponding temperature rise is ridiculous

Or... the heat from the buildings and houses keeps the surrounding area a little warmer...!!!

by Ben Reilly Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:03 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

I have considered the scientific evidence and I have come to my own conclusions...

That is what is called 'thinking for oneself'...

Try it sometime... instead of following the waffle fed to you...

I've been keeping up with this topic since the late 80s -- I've read 100 times as many articles and papers as you have on this topic (I can tell by how little you know) and you're simply wrong -- you're a stupid follower, a pawn of the oil and gas industry titans who would sooner run you down in the street than be late for a meeting.

by Tommy Monk Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:52 pm

Waffle...

The fact remains that solar activity has increased over the last century and there is a direct correlation with that and the slight rise in temps we have seen over this time.

It is also true that we have been coming out of a cold period over the last few hundred years that is known as 'the mini ice age'... before this time it is known that temps were much warmer... much like they are at present time...

So it is highly arguable that we have just returned to normal temperatures!!!

by veya_victaous Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:31 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:well I just have to say as someone that grew up in semi-rural area that has become suburban there is a temp rise associated with urbanisation.
it never gets as cold; the pollution reduces the temp drop at night. literally a blanket of pollutants sits over populated areas that keep the heat in.

Now I am moving out to a semi-rural area again it has the same temp cycle i remember as a kid where there is a significant drop when the sun goes down.

when we look that at the spread of urbanisation and associated pollution around the world any suggestion that we are not going to the see the corresponding temperature rise is ridiculous

Or... the heat from the buildings and houses keeps the surrounding area a little warmer...!!!

No it is the carbon blanket a well documented effect. an articlie from the 1950's
Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming 0*3lIUntQOBy0DsWyk

Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming 0*3lIUntQOBy0DsWyk

Just shut up and go get an educatuion dumb ass.
NO racist blogs are not an eduvation
maybe if you spent sometime reading real educational materal rather than hate sites you would not be so epically dumb
Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming Heattrapping-gases-faq

Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming Heattrapping-gases-faq

and No solar activity has NOT increased fucking moron.
it has an 11 year and 90 year cycle that have been the same since records began.

it's too complex for you since you have so little base knowledge of science.
you literally need to go back to grade school and actually Listen this time.

https://astronomynow.com/2015/07/17/diminishing-solar-activity-may-bring-new-ice-age-by-2030/

by Victorismyhero Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:42 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:well I just have to say as someone that grew up in semi-rural area that has become suburban there is a temp rise associated with urbanisation.
it never gets as cold; the pollution reduces the temp drop at night. literally a blanket of pollutants sits over populated areas that keep the heat in.

Now I am moving out to a semi-rural area again it has the same temp cycle i remember as a kid where there is a significant drop when the sun goes down.

when we look that at the spread of urbanisation and associated pollution around the world any suggestion that we are not going to the see the corresponding temperature rise is ridiculous

Or... the heat from the buildings and houses keeps the surrounding area a little warmer...!!!

No it is the carbon blanket a well documented effect. an articlie from the 1950's

Just shut up and go get an educatuion dumb ass.
NO racist blogs are not an eduvation
maybe if you spent sometime reading real educational materal rather than hate sites you would not be so epically dumb

and No solar activity has NOT increased fucking moron.
it has an 11 year and 90 year cycle that have been the same since records began.

it's too complex for you since you have so little base knowledge of science.
you literally need to go back to grade school and actually Listen this time.

https://astronomynow.com/2015/07/17/diminishing-solar-activity-may-bring-new-ice-age-by-2030/

Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming 3489511464

Its not often I genuinely get to call you a dumb fuck veya.....but FFS

quoted from the article you posted to bash Tommy with

"Dr Helen Popova responds cautiously, while speaking about the human influence on climate.

“There is no strong evidence, that global warming is caused by human activity. The study of deuterium in the Antarctic showed that there were five global warmings and four Ice Ages for the past 400 thousand years. People first appeared on the Earth about 60 thousand years ago. However, even if human activities influence the climate, we can say, that the Sun with the new minimum gives humanity more time or a second chance to reduce their industrial emissions and to prepare, when the Sun will return to normal activity”, Dr Helen Popova summarised. "

flamin priceless

Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming 2581891615

Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming 2581891615

by Victorismyhero Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:04 pm

and...given that the article you have relied on is proved to be true.....can we expect a refund of all that "carbon tax" we have been forced to stump up ????

Laughing

by Tommy Monk Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:07 pm

Solar activity has increased over the last 100 years... and well documented!!!

CO2 level air is about 0.4%... the same as it has been for hundreds of years...

by veya_victaous Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:03 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Solar activity has increased over the last 100 years... and well documented!!!

CO2 level air is about 0.4%... the same as it has been for hundreds of years...

No it hasn't
present studies or STFU
CO2 has increased
all this is well documented IN REAL Scientific Publications, not your moron hate sites or 2 bit bloggers with the combined IQ of a gnat.

@LF
And does it say that the Sun is getting hotter?
OR THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE!!!
so i propose that it is you that is a dumb fuck that cannot follow apparently either. Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming Clip_image001

that is an Astronomy Article About the Sun.
And why do you think she responds Cautiously
Cause the Ozone is NOT her speciality the SUN is
and the DECREASE in activity that is really just the combined low points in the 90 and 11 year cycles.

SO let’s look at the guys that specialize in Ozone
Yep they have known and measured the carbon dioxide blanket for over 50 years.

So IF you had half the brain you claim to you'd realise you listen to the person studying the solar activity for information about the Sun and you listen to the people studying the ozone for info on the ozone.

SO what do we have?
the sun expert saying Sun is in the cooler segment of it cycles (so Tommy is Full of shit)
and the Ozone experts(textbooks) explaining the presence and effects of the carbon dioxide blanket found over post-industrial settlements

by veya_victaous Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:09 am

Lord Foul wrote:and...given that the article you have relied on is proved to be true.....can we expect a refund of all that "carbon tax" we have been forced to stump up ????

you think of a carbon tax refund because of lower solar activity? why?
we still have issues with excess carbon dioxide in the atmosphere
the fucking point is that it is cyclical and won’t even last a generation so
WHY would we not have to fix the excess carbon dioxide?
If we are so fortunate to have the lower solar activity all it does is give us enough time to do something, cause fuckwits like tommy (and you apparently) vote against fixing things even though you clearly don’t understand the discussion.

I think we all know why you guys really oppose
because YOU'D HAVE TO PAY FOR TO FIX SOMETHING and your generation hates doing that.
Your instant reaction is 'fuck it we got a few more years, lets just keep raping the planet" let another generation to fix it..
thankfully, the shitty attitude has not been passed on to all in the younger generations.

by 'Wolfie Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:39 am

TOMMY knows less than zero about climate, science, technology, or maths (especially statistical analyses..) -- he reinforces the,fact every time he posts his ridiculous lies and opinions on here...

He only seems to post his denialist propaganda opinions to derail and distort any climate change/environmental/anti-corporate topics..

by Victorismyhero Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:05 am

veya...you are soooo dumb when you loose your rag......

you cant even see why I posted can you......

(hint ...it has to do with NOT posting sources that give your oponent ammunition......doh!!!)

by Tommy Monk Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:46 pm

I only speak the truth...

by Tommy Monk Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:53 pm

Veya link actually confirms the period known as 'the mini ice age' and says another one may actually be coming around 2030-2040... it also talks about solar activity (the increase in or the lack of) being directly responsible for the temps here on earth!!!

https://astronomynow.com/2015/07/17/diminishing-solar-activity-may-bring-new-ice-age-by-2030/

Thanks for confirming what I've been saying veya!!!

lol!

by nicko Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:27 pm

PSSSSST, HE'S DUMB WHEN HE DOESN'T LOSE HIS RAG.

by veya_victaous Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:54 pm

My god to they have schools in Britian?
SO all 3 of you can't follow
ALL 3 think the Astronomer is the Ozone Expert
and all 3 just ignore decades of science that Put the Astronomer points in Persepective

I would expect it from tommy he obviosuly has a low intellect and no education,
But thought better of you Vic, tommy is not an opponet he is too dumb.

and PLEASE confirm for that old geranium that HE IS THE MOST PROTECTED POSTER ON THIS FORUM.
Or he won't be Twisted Evil

by Victorismyhero Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:04 pm

veya_victaous wrote:My god to they have schools in Britian?ll her dumb
SO all 3 of you can't follow
ALL 3 think the Astronomer is the Ozone Expert

no...but you cant call tommy dumb for having that POV and then not call her dumb for the same reason???

and all 3 just ignore decades of science that Put the Astronomer points in Persepective

I would expect it from tommy he obviosuly has a low intellect and no education,`
But thought better of you Vic, tommy is not an opponet he is too dumb.

and PLEASE confirm for that old geranium that HE IS THE MOST PROTECTED POSTER ON THIS FORUM.
Or he won't be

by Victorismyhero Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:16 pm

question for ther climate change enforcers

IS the model of climate change reproducible at will in the lab

NO....not "bits of it" not "computer models....the whole thing

if not it has no more validity than reincarnation has to you...no more validity than telepathy

and a whole host of other "paranormal" phenomena...for which, just like climate science there is plenty of "anecdotal evidence" but little that can be reproduced in a lab...

just askin and stirring the pot...... Laughing

Conservative group pushes market-based approach to solving global warming 2190311264

by veya_victaous Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:30 pm

umm no She is not dumb she gave Guarded Response bases on a Segment of measurements in which she is an expert. You need to more than just take in the sound bite to understand. She has given a complex answer full of variables and range of outcomes.

She is NOT saying what tommy is saying at ALL!!!
Literally the opposite the Sun cycles ARE NOT GETTING HOTTER if anything it is in a cool period

If the similar reduction will be observed during the upcoming Maunder minimum this can lead to the similar cooling of the Earth atmosphere. According to Dr Helen Popova, if the existing theories about the impact of solar activity on the climate are true, then this minimum will lead to a significant cooling, similar to the one occurred during the Maunder minimum.
However, only the time will show soon enough (within the next 5-15 years) if this will happen.

SO since we debunk the CORE of Tommy's argument that Sun has caused the recent spike in gloabl sea tempreature.

And He was saying there is not such thing as the carbon dioxide blanket. which is like saying there earth is flat or any stupid statement that comes out of his head.

by Tommy Monk Tue Oct 18, 2016 10:41 pm

Co2 is a natural gas in the air... always has been...

Is around 0.4% of air...

And has been between around 0.3%-0.4% for hundreds/thousands of years!!!

Sea temps haven't risen in any spike... the seas are much slower than air or land to rise in any temps... and there has only been an estimated global rise of 0.8deg cent over last 100approx years...

by veya_victaous Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:24 pm

you just asked if we can reproduce 'earth' in a lab, presumably on earth Suspect

Earth is 'unique' , literally the same reason evolution is a Theory

Can and have we been recording temperatures?
can we measure carbon dioxide?
can we use Carbon Dioxide as insulator?
have we seen a correlation between the increase in Global Carbon dioxide and temperature?
Can we see Localised effects of Carbon Dioxide Blanket?
Do we KNOW that we have more and larger industrial settlements?

As the Answer is YES to all those questions it puts us in a pretty good position to presume that the current increases are caused by Humans.

by 'Wolfie Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:19 am

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
I have considered the scientific evidence and I have come to my own conclusions...

That is what is called 'thinking for oneself'...

Try it sometime... instead of following the waffle fed to you...

I've been keeping up with this topic since the late 80s -- I've read 100 times as many articles and papers as you have on this topic (I can tell by how little you know) and you're simply wrong -- you're a stupid follower, a pawn of the oil and gas industry titans who would sooner run you down in the street than be late for a meeting.

The problem with Tommy attempting to weigh up the for and against arguments -- his total lack of understanding with any topics concerning science, technology or maths -- is being further confirmed with every idiotic post he makes on here...

Despite evidence presented that there never was a genuine "mini ice age" in Britain and Northern Europe a few hundred years ago, Tommy keeps on producing lying bloggers and cherry-picked data to support his ongoing nonsense..

And then he digs himself in deeper, by predicting a "mini ice age" around 2030 ->> 2050, based on the gibberings by some fringe loon astronomers ???

The one thing that we all do about Tommy -- the silly fool obviously never completed his schooling; (at least not to the requisite standard, to take part in any half-intelligent debates on these subjects..). sunny

by nicko Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:40 am

Attack the post not the poster, put up the evidence that his wrong,and stop with the insults. You seem very keen to insult posters , there's one or two more like you on this forum. Shows that your not really sure of your facts and bluster will cover that up !

by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:06 pm

Listen dog breath... the period is widely known as 'the mini ice age'... I didn't make up the name... look it up!!!

And it's funny how you are quick to believe jumped up rubbish from some if it is saying what you want to hear... but all the others are 'loons'...

by Original Quill Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:44 pm

Well, one problem is every time you run down one of tommy's sources, you find some 400-pound blogger, with skid marks on his underwear, who sits on his bed inventing his diatribes.

It's hard not to think in terms of personalities after a while, when the ideas are so insubstantial and the originators are so colorful. Evil or Very Mad

by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:57 pm

It was Vegas link actually...!!!

lol!

Try answering the points raised instead of attacking the platform they are delivered through...

Argumentum ad Hominem

by 'Wolfie Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:01 pm

nicko wrote:
Attack the post not the poster, put up the evidence that his wrong,and stop with the insults. You seem very keen to insult posters , there's one or two more like you on this forum. Shows that your not really sure of your facts and bluster will cover that up !

One problem with your return abuse, nicko...

As many people on this site already know, I have posted on this topic several times over the past year, having shot down the outright bullshit that Tommy, Major, and even you yourself have posted to deny the very existence of climate change...

As have veya, Ben, Quill, and even Victor at times..

And Tommy just keeps on digging up more of his rancid lies, showing his own lack of education at every turn.. It does get very tiring to simply repeat the facts ad infinitum, without insulting Tommy in between.

Do you want to add to Tommy's lies by denying this simple truth, nicko ??? Suspect

by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:07 pm

You haven't posted any evidence... just shouted abusively that everything I've said is wrong!

by Original Quill Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:21 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Try answering the points raised instead of attacking the platform they are delivered through...

Toms, they are "points raised" in your head only. For instance, you raise Rommel (in the Australia thread), who hallucinates three forms of "socialism", one of which happens to be the one he wants to use to malign the concept. It's all a self-fulfilling tautology. His whole argument fails because he misunderstands the premises.

Tommy Monk wrote:Argumentum ad Hominem

It's really not ad hominem argument to point out that that your contentions fail because your premises lack a proper foundation. It's like when you build a building...if you lack a first floor, the whole thing is destined to fail.

by Tommy Monk Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:26 pm

Yawn...

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