London Muslim schoolgirl who went to join isis may be dead

First topic message reminder :

One of three schoolgirls who left east London last year to join so-called Islamic State (IS) is believed to have been killed in a Russian air strike in Syria, her family solicitor has said.
Kadiza Sultana was 16 when she left Bethnal Green along with two friends.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37053699


Some good news!

fair enough...but then you must also agree that in another year (when he's 16) he isnt yet sufficiently mature to VOTE.....since that vote will not be made upon his OWN thought processes, but by those who influence him the most.....

one way or the other.......

Nope, a vote is not going to change his life, it's just going to let him think he is a valued part of the community and his voice is heard.

You might be right when it comes to some 16 year olds but I will tell you now, no word of a lie, he and his friends and his girlfriend all know a hell of a lot about politics and even the American run for presidency.

They sit around here over dinner and we talk about it.

So you're kinda stereotyping a bit there.

Never met a 16yr old who agreed with his parents on politics lol

sassy wrote:Never met a 16yr old who agreed with his parents on politics lol

He's a bit liberal tbh, like me. On some things he's very adamant but others...he doesn't like extremes either.
He's thinking of going into political law.

ahh i see......


so

exceptions and "differences"

so you are advocating a system whereby a person who is insufficiently mature to make sound decisions is going to "have his voice heard"



why not turn out the assylums on polling day (oh ang on ...they do...thats who we are voting for)

seriously....thats going to end well.......

mind you given the apathy of the 18-30 brigade in the brexit vote I dont recon anyone has anything to worry about.....

So you advocate old people losing their marbles having their vote taken away?

Hmmm well if someone is actually senile then they have no idea what they're voting for do they?

Unless.....they're still reachable somehow and you can ask them in a simplified way.

I have always held that "competance" be a requirement for voting

the problem is whilst it is easy ...as you do, to apply a minimum age for competance, deciding if an elderly person is suficciently competant is a rather more difficult project, since no one is sufficiently qualified (by lack of propriatal interest) to make such a decision....and as such any such system is obviously too open to abuse

Few things to think over.

This is not grooming but radicalisation, which had to come from a source over beliefs that swayed them on this course of extreme wahabist Islam and enticed with marrying what they see as a warrior of Allah. A play is made about how special it is to be married to such a Jihadist.

Was that source a family member or a friend?
Was this simple being influnced online?

She did marry and only after he was killed did she want to leave.
So was it more over losing her husband?
Or was it due to becoming disillusion with this form of Islam?
Did she commit any crimes?
Was she also being forced to marry someone else she did not like but again still believed in the ISIS doctrine of Islam

She is certainly not innocent in the sense that she openly and willing joined and married an ISIS jihadist, being as she is over 16, and she made a clear concious decision on this.

The telling point though is what is most of all missing from here or at least is not well known. If she was hailed as a martyr? If she was not, then this would lend credability to the claim she was trying to excape and that in fact she may of even been murdered

Lord Foul wrote:when do you stop infantilizing these people
is 17 "still a kid"
18? 20?

50?
99?

of course its the parents fault....failing to instill a sense of worth and self discipline

instant graticfication

etc etc etc

at 16 they are old enough to know that not only is it WRONG but its fractally, utterly and and screamingly wrong

or perhaps they havn't the brain power to look at what isis does (yazdis etc) and judge that wrong?

dont look to ME for a sypathetic take on this

Good point. I had a family at just gone 18 and had to start being responsible. I was quite capable of it. If they're old enough to travel alone using their passports, then they're old enough to know right from wrong. The bottom line is they thought it was exciting and a bit dangerous, and had sexual fantasies about being romanced by Jihadi fighters. Perhaps if they'd been allowed to date and have sex like most girls of 17, they wouldn't have been that arsed.

Didge wrote:Few things to think over.

This is not grooming but radicalisation, which had to come from a source over beliefs that swayed them on this course of extreme wahabist Islam and enticed with marrying what they see as a warrior of Allah. A play is made about how special it is to be married to such a Jihadist.

Was that source a family member or a friend?
Was this simple being influnced online?

She did marry and only after he was killed did she want to leave.
So was it more over losing her husband?
Or was it due to becoming disillusion with this form of Islam?
Did she commit any crimes?
Was she also being forced to marry someone else she did not like but again still believed in the ISIS doctrine of Islam

She is certainly not innocent in the sense that she openly and willing joined and married an ISIS jihadist, being as she is over 16, and she made a clear concious decision on this.

The telling point though is what is most of all missing from here or at least is not well known. If she was hailed as a martyr? If she was not, then this would lend credability to the claim she was trying to excape and that in fact she may of even been murdered

I would think it was more a case of once her husband got killed, she had a slim chance to leave. I don't think for one moment he'd have let her go otherwise.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:Few things to think over.

This is not grooming but radicalisation, which had to come from a source over beliefs that swayed them on this course of extreme wahabist Islam and enticed with marrying what they see as a warrior of Allah. A play is made about how special it is to be married to such a Jihadist.

Was that source a family member or a friend?
Was this simple being influnced online?

She did marry and only after he was killed did she want to leave.
So was it more over losing her husband?
Or was it due to becoming disillusion with this form of Islam?
Did she commit any crimes?
Was she also being forced to marry someone else she did not like but again still believed in the ISIS doctrine of Islam

She is certainly not innocent in the sense that she openly and willing joined and married an ISIS jihadist, being as she is over 16, and she made a clear concious decision on this.

The telling point though is what is most of all missing from here or at least is not well known. If she was hailed as a martyr? If she was not, then this would lend credability to the claim she was trying to excape and that in fact she may of even been murdered

I would think it was more a case of once her husband got killed, she had a slim chance to leave.  I don't think for one moment he'd have let her go otherwise.

He would not have ben around much and no doubt fighting, as most of their fighters are. So your point makes little sense and is not backed up by any of her family. She only wantd to leave after he had ben killed and there was nothing to indicate this with her family that she was unhappy, clearly she would have been able to state this as her husband was fighting and the main reason she had left to go to Syria. There sems no indication she was unhappy until after he died.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:when do you stop infantilizing these people
is 17 "still a kid"
18? 20?

50?
99?

of course its the parents fault....failing to instill a sense of worth and self discipline

instant graticfication

etc etc etc

at 16 they are old enough to know that not only is it WRONG but its fractally, utterly and and screamingly wrong

or perhaps they havn't the brain power to look at what isis does (yazdis etc) and judge that wrong?

dont look to ME for a sypathetic take on this

Good point.  I had a family at just gone 18 and had to start  being responsible.   I was quite capable of it.     If they're old enough to travel alone using their passports, then they're old enough to know right from wrong.  The bottom line is they thought it was exciting and a bit dangerous, and had sexual fantasies about being romanced by Jihadi fighters.   Perhaps if they'd been allowed to date and have sex like most girls of 17, they wouldn't have been that arsed.  

A lot of your post seems to be assuming what you think these girls do and need....that's pretty narrow minded tbh.

The part I've highlighted is exactly that: you wasn't 'responsible' and had to start 'being responsible' - exactly that. At 16 you aren't ready nor responsible and therefore too young to make decisions even though you think you are.

eddie wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Good point.  I had a family at just gone 18 and had to start  being responsible.   I was quite capable of it.     If they're old enough to travel alone using their passports, then they're old enough to know right from wrong.  The bottom line is they thought it was exciting and a bit dangerous, and had sexual fantasies about being romanced by Jihadi fighters.   Perhaps if they'd been allowed to date and have sex like most girls of 17, they wouldn't have been that arsed.  

A lot of your post seems to be assuming what you think these girls do and need....that's pretty narrow minded tbh.

The part I've highlighted is exactly that: you wasn't 'responsible'  and had to start 'being responsible' - exactly that. At 16 you aren't ready nor responsible and therefore too young to make decisions even though you think you are.

We all 'have' to become responsible. Some of us sooner than others. That's what life is about. I was working full time at 16 and giving my mum half my wages. Sixteen is a perfectly reasonable age to start thinking for yourself and being responsible for your own actions. It's obvious why they did what they did. When youngsters are disconnected with their current situation or feel a lack of belonging, they're wide open for a charm offensive. Do you suppose for one wild woolly moment, those girls would have done this had they been happy at home, or felt contented and fulfilled with their lot in life?

So far as a passport is concerned, 16 is adult enough to fly and travel alone. Age of consent for sex in the UK is 16. If you're old enough for this, then you're old enough to take responsibilities for your own actions and decisions.

“Wishful thinking,” the sociologist Karl Mannheim wrote, “has always figured in human affairs. When the imagination finds no satisfaction in existing reality, it seeks refuge in wishfully constructed places and periods.”

So, is it just too awful to believe that these girls might have wanted go to Syria just because they wanted to? Does the brainwashing theory give ease to the ghastly concept of that reality? Oh, they must have been radicalised, it's the only explanation! Perhaps not. Perhaps the truth is just too awful to contemplate or accept?

Some people always try to find excuses for Islamist and their behaviour... every excuse except islam that is...