Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms

by eddie Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:29 pm

Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms

Just some random front page headlines from the British press this morning:

"Economy defies Brexit doubters," Daily Telegraph.

"Britain booms after EU vote," Daily Express.

"Business as usual: Bank [of England] reports no Brexit slump," The Times.

This was inevitable after the outrageous scaremongering put about by the Remain camp.

You'll recall that one of their central arguments was that, even in the run-up to the referendum, the economy would suffer badly due to uncertainty: companies would be reluctant to hire people; consumers wold stop spending; foreign direct investment (FDI) would pause.

All garbage, now being refuted by reality as the Bank of England (BoE) says there is absolutely no sign of a Brexit slowdown, unemployment falls to an 11 year low of 4.9 percent, overall employment hits a record high of 74.4 percent of the working age population, the latest BoE survey shows consumers are calm and activity has been unaffected, the FTSE100 has surged to its highest levels since last August, and a $32 billion investment decision was announced this week by Japan's SoftBank, with much more FDI now expected due to the weaker pound and Britain's relatively better economic performance than the Eurozone.

The four horsemen of the apocalypse appear to have other things to do...

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6377/project_fear_now_totally_exposed_as_economy_booms

by HoratioTarr Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:51 pm

eddie wrote:Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms

Just some random front page headlines from the British press this morning:

"Economy defies Brexit doubters," Daily Telegraph.

"Britain booms after EU vote," Daily Express.

"Business as usual: Bank [of England] reports no Brexit slump," The Times.

This was inevitable after the outrageous scaremongering put about by the Remain camp.

You'll recall that one of their central arguments was that, even in the run-up to the referendum, the economy would suffer badly due to uncertainty: companies would be reluctant to hire people; consumers wold stop spending; foreign direct investment (FDI) would pause.

All garbage, now being refuted by reality as the Bank of England (BoE) says there is absolutely no sign of a Brexit slowdown, unemployment falls to an 11 year low of 4.9 percent, overall employment hits a record high of 74.4 percent of the working age population, the latest BoE survey shows consumers are calm and activity has been unaffected, the FTSE100 has surged to its highest levels since last August, and a $32 billion investment decision was announced this week by Japan's SoftBank, with much more FDI now expected due to the weaker pound and Britain's relatively better economic performance than the Eurozone.

The four horsemen of the apocalypse appear to have other things to do...

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/6377/project_fear_now_totally_exposed_as_economy_booms

There was a thing on the news today about China opening up a big company over here and generating jobs. I wasn't paying much attention but I think that was the gist of it. I might be wrong

by eddie Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:13 pm

'Project Fear'

Aptly named.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:19 pm

Article 50 now please...

by HoratioTarr Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:32 pm

eddie wrote:'Project Fear'

Aptly named.

All a load of bollocks. A whole faction on here spouting doom and gloom and ~~predicting~~ hoping the UK would fall on it's arse.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:39 pm

BOE set to stimulate UK economy for first time since 2012 ... 25 percent fewer job openings than before Brexit ... raft of economists predicting economic downturn as GDP is expected to contract shortly ... nearly 1 percent drop in retail sales, the primary driver of the British economy ... yeah. It was all bullshit. Rolling Eyes

by nicko Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:43 pm

looking forward to it are you?

by HoratioTarr Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:43 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:BOE set to stimulate UK economy for first time since 2012 ... 25 percent fewer job openings than before Brexit ... raft of economists predicting economic downturn as GDP is expected to contract shortly ... nearly 1 percent drop in retail sales, the primary driver of the British economy ... yeah. It was all bullshit.

This has been happening for years. Get real.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:44 pm

nicko wrote:looking forward to it are you?

Not at all, nicko. I hope for the best for the UK, but that doesn't mean sticking your head in the sand, does it?

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:45 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:BOE set to stimulate UK economy for first time since 2012 ... 25 percent fewer job openings than before Brexit ... raft of economists predicting economic downturn as GDP is expected to contract shortly ... nearly 1 percent drop in retail sales, the primary driver of the British economy ... yeah. It was all bullshit.

This has been happening for years. Get real.

It most certainly has not been happening for years. BOE hasn't been stimulating the economy for years, 25 percent fewer job openings after one election hasn't been happening for years, economists haven't been projecting a downturn for years. Get real.

by nicko Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:48 pm

HE's been hoping we go down the drain for months, never mind, when mr Trump gets in the White House he'll sort America out.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:52 pm

nicko wrote:HE's been hoping we go down the drain for months, never mind, when mr Trump gets in the White House he'll sort America out.

"Worried" does not equal "hoping." And Trump is not going to win, the very idea is hilarious.

by HoratioTarr Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:52 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

This has been happening for years. Get real.

It most certainly has not been happening for years. BOE hasn't been stimulating the economy for years, 25 percent fewer job openings after one election hasn't been happening for years, economists haven't been projecting a downturn for years. Get real.

Do I really have to dredge up the UK economy over the decades for you? This country has been up and down and up and down with it's economy for years. We go through good phases and bad ones. Hands up if you can remember the 3 day week? We got through that, and we'll get through everything else.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:54 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

This has been happening for years. Get real.

It most certainly has not been happening for years. BOE hasn't been stimulating the economy for years, 25 percent fewer job openings after one election hasn't been happening for years, economists haven't been projecting a downturn for years. Get real.

Do I really have to dredge up the UK economy over the decades for you? This country has been up and down and up and down with it's economy for years. We go through good phases and bad ones. Hands up if you can remember the 3 day week? We got through that, and we'll get through everything else.

Now you're moving the goalposts, HT. The premise here is that everything's rosy after Brexit. I presented a collection of facts that undercut that proposition. Did I ever predict the UK is permanently doomed by Brexit? No.

by HoratioTarr Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:55 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
nicko wrote:HE's been hoping we go down the drain for months, never mind, when mr Trump gets in the White House he'll sort America out.

"Worried" does not equal "hoping." And Trump is not going to win, the very idea is hilarious.

It'll be interesting to see if you have to eat those words. Perhaps all the 'hicks' and 'rednecks' you despise will surprise you with their vote, much like the Remain brigade here got a kick up the arse. Mind you, even I wouldn't wish Trump on yo' asses.

lol!

by HoratioTarr Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:57 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Do I really have to dredge up the UK economy over the decades for you? This country has been up and down and up and down with it's economy for years. We go through good phases and bad ones. Hands up if you can remember the 3 day week? We got through that, and we'll get through everything else.

Now you're moving the goalposts, HT. The premise here is that everything's rosy after Brexit. I presented a collection of facts that undercut that proposition. Did I ever predict the UK is permanently doomed by Brexit? No.

I don't give a Fiddler's Fuck what you predicted. Don't bother projecting your own 'dodges' on me.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:59 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
nicko wrote:HE's been hoping we go down the drain for months, never mind, when mr Trump gets in the White House he'll sort America out.

"Worried" does not equal "hoping." And Trump is not going to win, the very idea is hilarious.

It'll be interesting to see if you have to eat those words. Perhaps all the 'hicks' and 'rednecks' you despise will surprise you with their vote, much like the Remain brigade here got a kick up the arse. Mind you, even I wouldn't wish Trump on yo' asses.

Have you been looking into our upcoming election very deeply? If not, I have a few links for you to look at before you surmise that that the 'hicks' can win ... ANY national election for the foreseeable future, let alone this one:

http://theweek.com/articles/620820/gop-escape-destiny-demographic-disaster

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/trump-is-making-latinos-register-to-vote-again.html

And finally:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/#now

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:59 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Do I really have to dredge up the UK economy over the decades for you? This country has been up and down and up and down with it's economy for years. We go through good phases and bad ones. Hands up if you can remember the 3 day week? We got through that, and we'll get through everything else.

Now you're moving the goalposts, HT. The premise here is that everything's rosy after Brexit. I presented a collection of facts that undercut that proposition. Did I ever predict the UK is permanently doomed by Brexit? No.

I don't give a Fiddler's Fuck what you predicted. Don't bother projecting your own 'dodges' on me.

Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms 3489511464

by HoratioTarr Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:07 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

It'll be interesting to see if you have to eat those words. Perhaps all the 'hicks' and 'rednecks' you despise will surprise you with their vote, much like the Remain brigade here got a kick up the arse. Mind you, even I wouldn't wish Trump on yo' asses.

Have you been looking into our upcoming election very deeply? If not, I have a few links for you to look at before you surmise that that the 'hicks' can win ... ANY national election for the foreseeable future, let alone this one:

http://theweek.com/articles/620820/gop-escape-destiny-demographic-disaster

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/trump-is-making-latinos-register-to-vote-again.html

And finally:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/#now

It's enough to have to look at Trump's Toop without reading about the idiot.

by eddie Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:23 pm

Proving once again, that it depends entirely upon what you read.

by Ben Reilly Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:27 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Ben Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

It'll be interesting to see if you have to eat those words. Perhaps all the 'hicks' and 'rednecks' you despise will surprise you with their vote, much like the Remain brigade here got a kick up the arse. Mind you, even I wouldn't wish Trump on yo' asses.

Have you been looking into our upcoming election very deeply? If not, I have a few links for you to look at before you surmise that that the 'hicks' can win ... ANY national election for the foreseeable future, let alone this one:

http://theweek.com/articles/620820/gop-escape-destiny-demographic-disaster

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/05/trump-is-making-latinos-register-to-vote-again.html

And finally:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2016-election-forecast/#now

It's enough to have to look at Trump's Toop without reading about the idiot.

I'm not asking you to read about Trump -- it's not about him. It's about how he and candidates like him now appeal to a segment of American society (the white right) who are too small to elect a president -- but they haven't accepted that.

by eddie Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:30 pm

Trump can't win (hopefully) but I think he might give it a good go and it'll be close.

by Irn Bru Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:12 am

The Daily Express is a RW Eurosceptic rag that has picked up on a couple of statements to try and make out that everything is hunky dory when it is anything but that. Reallity just hasn't kicked in yet and if you read the whole Bank of England report from which they gleaned off the bits they liked you will see that we are heading in the wrong direction and the shit has yet to hit the fan.

One thing is for sure and that is that we are in for an economic shock as we see that construction is going down or being postponed and prices are going up.

It's early days and firms are carrying on as normal at the moment because they don't know what else to do - but reallity will hit them soon enough if and when the government hit the Article 30 button.

Here's the actual report - read Page 3

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/agentssummary/2016/jul.pdf

by eddie Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:47 am

All depends upon which liar you read I suppose.

And So what? We went into a massive recession befroe and we were in the EU.
We will get through it and be fine like we were befroe.

The country is not great at the moment anyway, despite what you all think you're reading (ALWAYS DEPENDS UPON WHICH LIAR YOU BELIEVE) so can't get much that much worse.

by 'Wolfie Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:12 pm

THE O/P IS total rubbish...

The FTSE is down 10% over recent months;
The pound is down in value (not good for average Brits maybe, but the guv't will be happier, as it improves export competiveness, and lifts the 'balance of payments..').

AS FOR employment levels, how does less than 76% employment transfer into "an unemployment rate of only 4.9%" ???

Nothing like a bit of cherry-picking and selective blindness by a guvm'nt friendly rag..

IF a handful of unqualified populist journo's calll Britain's economy "booming", I'd like to see what they're claiming as Britain slips into it's next recession. Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms 3350646086

Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms 3350646086

by Guest Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:17 pm

And the Composite PMI results today are a disaster.

by 'Wolfie Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:26 pm

THE DAILY EXPRESS is obviously playing off the general "economic illiteracy" of their target readership, what with all of those selective tidbits...

The Murdoch press regularly does the same thing down here with the Sydney Daily Telegraph and Melbourne Herald Sun; in this case here making the economy look better under the Conservatives and worse under Labor -- when the very opposite is the reality..

by Guest Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:30 pm

Well, after the results of the composite PMIs, the thread OP looks a whole load of rubbish Eddie lol

UK economy slumps 'at fastest rate since financial crisis' after Brexit vote

22/07/2016 - 10:18:24Back to Brexit Business Home

The UK economy has slumped at its fastest rate since the financial crisis in the wake of Britain's vote to leave the European Union, a report said.

The closely-watched Markit Flash UK Composite Output Index plummeted to its lowest level since April 2009, falling to 47.7 in July.

A reading above 50 indicates growth.

The sharp contraction was triggered by falling output and orders for the first time since the end of 2012, while business optimism in Britain's powerhouse services sector hit a seven-and-a-half-year low.

The data, collected between July 12 and 21, provides a stark picture of the state of the economy following the Brexit vote.

Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit, said the update showed a "dramatic deterioration" in the UK economy, which is on course to contract by 0.4% in the third quarter.

"The downturn, whether manifesting itself in order book cancellations, a lack of new orders or the postponement or halting of projects, was most commonly attributed in one way or another to 'Brexit'."

He added: "At this level, the survey is signalling a 0.4% contraction of the economy in the third quarter, though much of course depends on whether we see a further deterioration in August or if July represents a shock-induced nadir.

"Given the record slump in service sector business expectations, the suggestion is that there is further pain to come in the short-term at least."

The update comes after the Bank of England said on Wednesday that business uncertainty had ''risen markedly'' since the Brexit vote - but there was ''no clear evidence'' of a sharp economic slowdown.

Sterling was down 0.2% against the dollar at 1.318 US dollars after the report was published, while the pound also fell 0.3% against the euro at 1.195 euro.

The study found that its flash UK services PMI hit an 88-month low of 47.4 this month, compared to 52.3 in June.

The flash UK manufacturing PMI was also in the doldrums, slipping to a 41-month low of 49.1 in July after a reading of 52.1 the month before.

The flash UK manufacturing PMI output index also dropped from 52.9 to 49.1 over the period.

The report said the downturn in the services sector was "more marked" than in manufacturing, with services activity and new orders dropping at their quickest rate for seven years.

But while output and new orders also came under pressure in the manufacturing sector, its new export business rose for the second straight month, boosted in part by the sharp drop in sterling following the Brexit vote.

David Noble, group chief executive of the Chartered Institute of Procurement and Supply, said: "The UK economy has suffered sharp falls in output and new orders following the EU referendum as uncertainty has taken hold.

"The overall pace of decline was the strongest since early 2009.

"Weaker sterling has driven a steep rise in input prices for manufacturers but there is a glimmer of positivity with the new exchange rate encouraging a rise in export orders. However, with a subdued global economy, it is not yet clear whether these opportunities will materialise in the long term."

He added: "The true extent of the impact of this uncertainty still remains to be seen next month. But with optimism in the UK's service sector at a seven-and-a-half year low, policymakers must take swift action to stop further decline amid political upheaval."

http://www.breakingnews.ie/business/uk-economy-slumps-at-fastest-rate-since-financial-crisis-after-brexit-vote-746083.html

by eddie Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:34 pm

Yes. It does depend on what you read, I agree.

by Guest Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:36 pm

No Edds, it really doesn't. The very best markers of how an economy and trade is doing is composite pmi's. Ours going down, Europe's are going slightly up. We look like we are heading for a recession. Can't say as it will be a surprise.

by eddie Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:38 pm

Okay. I see very conflicting stories so I will wait and see.

I don't do fear anyway. What will be will be.

by Guest Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:39 pm

Them's the actual facts of what is going on, that can't be denied.

by eddie Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:43 pm

sassy wrote:Them's the actual facts of what is going on, that can't be denied.

Yes. They are the facts for now according to some.

by Guest Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:51 pm

No Eddie, they are the markers, respected by everyone, that business's use to estimate how they are going to be able to progress their business or not. They are the Purchasing Manager's Index and show how private business is doing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_Managers%27_Index

by Victorismyhero Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:12 pm

Sassy has found a "new " index to spread her cassandra like whingings

3 weeks ago it was the FTSE 250 which to quote "was a better indicator than the FTSE 100

now that ALL the stock market indicators are well up not only on the last month but indeed the last year

(all means FTSE 100, 250, 350, and the S&P 500)
she has to find something else to create doom and gloom....

(bit like the "end of days practicioners"...ooops we made a mistake ...it will be (pick a date at random)

by eddie Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:14 pm

Like I keep saying: it depends what you read.

by Guest Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:13 pm

Lord Foul wrote:Sassy has found a "new " index to spread her cassandra like whingings

3 weeks ago it was the FTSE 250 which to quote "was a better indicator than the FTSE 100

now that ALL the stock market indicators are well up not only on the last month but indeed the last year

(all means FTSE 100, 250, 350, and the S&P 500)
she has to find something else to create doom and gloom....

(bit like the "end of days practicioners"...ooops we made a mistake ...it will be (pick a date at random)

Victor you have a cheek. So now the economic news doesn't support the op it's go after Sassy time and delegitimise me. You're a mod Vic so what happened to answer the post and not the poster hey? There was no suggestion of lies when posting the thread title or the content of the op was there?

by Guest Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:17 pm

Brexit Wreaks Havoc on U.K. Economy as Recession Risk Increases

The U.K.’s decision to leave the European Union inflicted an immediate blow on the economy as business activity shrank at its fastest pace since the last recession seven years ago.
In the weeks following Brexit, there was a “dramatic deterioration,” Markit Economics said in a one-time report published Friday. Services and manufacturing shrank and a gauge of the private-sector economy plunged to 47.7, well below the 50 level that divides expansion from contraction.
The slump is the strongest evidence yet that politics is propelling the world’s fifth largest economy into recession. It intensifies pressure on the Bank of England to deliver fresh monetary stimulus and on the government to reverse fiscal austerity. The pound dropped after the report was published, with Markit saying its latest readings put the economy on course to contract by 0.4 percent this quarter.

Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms 488x-1

Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms 488x-1

“July’s PMI certainly points to more easing,” said Samuel Tombs, an economist at Pantheon Macroeconomics in London. “We’ve seen a variety of business measures fall to levels not seen since the financial crisis. Although consumer confidence might hold up for the next few months, businesses are putting the brakes on investment.”

A gauge of services, the biggest part of the economy, dropped to 47.4. The slide in the composite Purchasing Managers’ Index was sharper than economists had predicted and was the biggest drop on record. It’s now at the lowest since April 2009, when the global financial crisis had helped push the U.K. into five straight quarters of contraction, and then Prime Minister Gordon Brown said an “international hurricane” was battering the world economy.
For a QuickTake on the reasons behind Brexit, click here

“The downturn, whether manifesting itself in order-book cancellations, a lack of new orders or the postponement or halting of projects, was most commonly attributed in one way or another to Brexit,” said Chris Williamson, chief economist at Markit.
The pound dropped 0.9 percent to $1.3107 at 2:07 p.m. London time. Markit collected the data between July 12 and July 21. It released the survey -- based on about 70 percent of usual replies -- to provide clarity on the impact of the referendum.

G-20 Response

The report also raises questions on the impact on the international economy. The IMF downgraded its global growth forecast this week, and Group of 20 nations officials, who are meeting in China this weekend, are planning to say they’re capable of dealing with the economic fallout of Brexit.
For BOE Governor Mark Carney and fellow officials debating whether the U.K. economy needs more stimulus, a key question will be whether the signs of weakness persist or just reflect an initial post-referendum shock. Williamson said the slump in the PMI “will provide a powerful argument for swift action.”

While most Monetary Policy Committee members say that action is required at the next meeting, two of its nine officials -- Martin Weale and Kristin Forbes -- have argued that they need further evidence of the impact Brexit is having. Investors are now pricing in an 88 percent chance the BOE will lower its key interest rate from 0.5 percent at its announcement on Aug. 4.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-22/brexit-vote-wreaks-havoc-on-u-k-economy-flash-estimates-show

Seems you lot like putting your fingers in your ears and going la la la

by Ben Reilly Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:48 pm

Worth noting about that Markit number is that 50 means no growth. Over 50 means growth, under 50 means contraction.

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:37 pm

Sassy... you really need to start opening your eyes to the bigger picture...

by eddie Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:44 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Sassy... you really need to start opening your eyes to the bigger picture...

But.....is the picture photoshopped? Razz

by Guest Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:57 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Sassy... you really need to start opening your eyes to the bigger picture...

That is the bigger picture DOH!

by Tommy Monk Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:20 pm

What is?

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:13 am

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:17 am

Sassy... by your logic... labour/brown signing the Lisbon treaty must have caused the 2008 crash...!?

lol!

by Ben Reilly Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:00 am

Tommy Monk wrote:

Sassy... by your logic... labour/brown signing the Lisbon treaty must have caused the 2008 crash...!?

Why are we talking about eight years ago? Let's talk about what's going on right now! Razz

by eddie Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:02 am

Don't wind Tommy up, he gets all unescessary with exclamation marks.

by 'Wolfie Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:14 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:
Sassy... by your logic... labour/brown signing the Lisbon treaty must have caused the 2008 crash...!?

Why are we talking about eight years ago? Let's talk about what's going on right now!

LET'S ALL not be so negative, Ben !!!

Let's forget about the present -- and talk about tomorrow..
HOW we're going to deal with the Brave New World that we have to look forward to.

Lots of jobs;
Plenty of free time;
"Affordable" housing;
Everybody living in peace and harmony;
No disease and disabilities;
Lovely weather;
No worries..

AT LEAST that's what all of those populist politicians, climate change denialists, and extremist moralists reckon they can deliver, if only the majority would come to their senses and vote in an anti-government regime, lordered over by their anti-political politicians... Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms 2187004795

Project Fear now totally exposed as economy booms 2187004795

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:40 pm

Ben Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

Sassy... by your logic... labour/brown signing the Lisbon treaty must have caused the 2008 crash...!?

Why are we talking about eight years ago? Let's talk about what's going on right now!

And ignore the bigger picture...

Which is the only way sassy's claim sounds remotely plausible.

However when you do look at the bigger picture... you can clearly see what a load of bollocks the claim is!

So... why would anyone advocate not looking at the bigger picture which tells the truth...?

Laughing

by Tommy Monk Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:46 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

Under Labour the index spent more time below 50 than it did above!!!

lol!

And look at that massive dip after the Lisbon treaty was signed by brown/labour...

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