Death of the Cockney: A BBC film, Last Whites Of The East End, reveals the seismic effects of mass migration on British communities - and how it's often ethnic minorities who are most worried by it

by eddie Sat May 21, 2016 10:46 am

Death of the Cockney: A BBC film, Last Whites Of The East End, reveals the seismic effects of mass migration on British communities - and how it's often ethnic minorities who are most worried by it

Everything this area stood for is being eradicated slowly but surely,’ says this proud, sad fifth generation East Ender. ‘In ten years’ time, there’ll be absolutely no trace of Cockney culture.’

Things used to be different, he says. ‘I miss those days when everyone knew everyone.’ Now his children are growing up with little knowledge of ‘the British way of life’. These days, he says, some schools are more like ‘Africa or Romania’.

He is not being particularly outspoken. In fact, it is hard to find anyone who was born and bred in these streets who would argue with him. No doubt, Shadow Europe Minister Pat Glass — who this week condemned an entire Derbyshire village after a ‘horrible racist’ voter dared to voice concerns about immigration — would like to have him carted off for re-education.

Cockneys are becoming a minority in east London, (pictured) which is the UK's most multicultural borough, with 70,000 immigrants arriving over the past 15 years

But what is really astonishing is that these remarks come not from some Alf Garnett-style Cockney dinosaur wailing into his pint down at the Queen Vic.

They are the thoughts of Usmaan Hussain, a dad with a young family, who is every bit as proud of his East End roots as his Bangladeshi ancestry. He loves West Ham United and has just started up a Muslim prayer group.

And he is one of many Cockneys whose moving lament for a dying way of life is the subject of a powerful documentary next week on BBC1.

It will make extremely uncomfortable viewing for all the main political parties, not to mention the local council — which is already disputing some of its assertions. And it seems that there are some within the BBC who are worried about this film, too.

I am sure the channel will issue plenty of health warnings before the start of Last Whites Of The East End. And they won’t be referring to the swearing. If you’re the sort of delicate flower who feels threatened by Germaine Greer’s views on gender change or a statue of Cecil Rhodes, then you should switch channels immediately.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3601730/A-BBC-film-Whites-East-End-reveals-seismic-effects-mass-migration-British-communities-s-ethnic-minorities-worried-it.html

Very interesting.

I'm betting that everyone thought the guy was WHITE.
Wonder if it will change anyone's perspective, as I've said many many times, that lots of my black friends and Asian friends and Bulgarian friends, feel this way.....

by nicko Sat May 21, 2016 3:43 pm

Where was he born? A genuine Cockney is born within the sound of Bow Bells, [that's a local Church]

by Ben Reilly Sat May 21, 2016 6:47 pm

So a guy with Bangladeshi ancestry is moaning about Africans and Romanians.

Is there something in the British water supply, or what?

by eddie Sat May 21, 2016 8:06 pm

No. There's multiculturalism and there's just plain being swamped.

The Spanish moan about the English taking over certain parts of Spain - it doesn't feel "Spanish" to them anymore. I sympathise.
If the English move to Spain they should live the Spanish way.

One day, you may know the feeling Ben.

The truth is, unless you live in an area that is over-populated with a certain people, and their ways have started to replace your ways, and your shops, and your lingo.....then you will never, ever know.

I love London because of its mixed cultures. I was born and bred there. But it's now a different place and it's very sad to see. It's not just white people - we have kept telling you lot this - it's EVERYONE who sees the enormous changes.

See sassy and people like that? They don't have the same problems londoners have. It's easy to sit on the outside and be benevolent

You dont know because you don't live it.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 21, 2016 8:23 pm

Pshaw. In my city I'm a stone's throw away from places where most of the signs are in Spanish, and if I go a bit further they're mostly in Vietnamese, with the odd "African Market" for a little variety. Those areas used to be more White American in feel -- now they aren't.

But I guess I am different than you in that this has happened my entire life, and it just feels normal to me. I don't see people of one ethnicity moving into an area and think of it as the death of the old; it's just change.

by eddie Sat May 21, 2016 8:27 pm

You fail to understand how it really is here Ben. London is tiny. It is SWAMPED.
People are moving out because they feel like outsiders in the town they grew up in.

Maybe you will never understand it but I do.
I always understood the Spanish moaning about the English "taking over" years ago too.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 21, 2016 8:32 pm

eddie wrote:You fail to understand how it really is here Ben. London is tiny. It is SWAMPED.
People are moving out because they feel like outsiders in the town they grew up in.

Maybe you will never understand it but I do.
I always understood the Spanish moaning about the English "taking over" years ago too.

Oh, we have people here who complain about our cities being "taken over" here, too. Someone sent a letter to the editor that said, "Soon you'll go into parts of Grapevine and only hear people speaking Spanish -- disgusting."

by eddie Sat May 21, 2016 8:35 pm

England is small. Very small.
In some towns the original people feel like outsiders.

I don't think that's right, not for any town, any where.

by nicko Sat May 21, 2016 9:34 pm

People who live in LARGE countries will never understand the problems of people who live in SMALL ones.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 21, 2016 9:46 pm

eddie wrote:England is small. Very small.
In some towns the original people feel like outsiders.

I don't think that's right, not for any town, any where.

The Britons would probably have agreed.

by Victorismyhero Sat May 21, 2016 9:51 pm

cool....more ancient history is comparable to today crap....

by HoratioTarr Sat May 21, 2016 9:57 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:So a guy with Bangladeshi ancestry is moaning about Africans and Romanians.

Is there something in the British water supply, or what?

You don't get it, do you?

by Ben Reilly Sat May 21, 2016 10:03 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:So a guy with Bangladeshi ancestry is moaning about Africans and Romanians.

Is there something in the British water supply, or what?

You don't get it, do you?

No, I don't get how someone whose ancestors got to leave their country and come to Britain could turn around and complain about other people doing the exact same thing.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 21, 2016 10:09 pm

See, this is what the once-mighty British Empire is reduced to -- after it raped much of the rest of the world for centuries, some of its descendants are unhappy living in a nation which, despite what have often been referred to as "invasions" of immigrants, is still 87 percent White British ...

So some of them have to point to little neighborhoods where they just don't see enough white faces any more ... because that apparently means their entire culture is on the way out ...

by Victorismyhero Sat May 21, 2016 10:19 pm

in those neighbourhoods it does...

and...you want to see the shit holes those placed descend into.....

by HoratioTarr Sat May 21, 2016 10:40 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

You don't get it, do you?

No, I don't get how someone whose ancestors got to leave their country and come to Britain could turn around and complain about other people doing the exact same thing.

What has ancestry to do with current living conditions?

by Syl Sat May 21, 2016 10:51 pm

eddie wrote:No. There's multiculturalism and there's just plain being swamped.

The Spanish moan about the English taking over certain parts of Spain - it doesn't feel "Spanish" to them anymore. I sympathise.
If the English move to Spain they should live the Spanish way.

One day, you may know the feeling Ben.

The truth is, unless you live in an area that is over-populated with a certain people, and their ways have started to replace your ways, and your shops, and your lingo.....then you will never, ever know.

I love London because of its mixed cultures. I was born and bred there. But it's now a different place and it's very sad to see. It's not just white people - we have kept telling you lot this - it's EVERYONE who sees the enormous changes.

See sassy and people like that? They don't have the same problems londoners have. It's easy to sit on the outside and be benevolent

You dont know because you don't live it.

Brilliantly put. I know someone who lives in a part of London that has been swamped by foreigners....most don't speak or want to speak the language, she feels like an outcast in the place where she was born and bred.

by Ben Reilly Sat May 21, 2016 11:23 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

You don't get it, do you?

No, I don't get how someone whose ancestors got to leave their country and come to Britain could turn around and complain about other people doing the exact same thing.

What has ancestry to do with current living conditions?

‘I miss those days when everyone knew everyone.’ Now his children are growing up with little knowledge of ‘the British way of life’. These days, he says, some schools are more like ‘Africa or Romania’.

What does any of that have to do with living conditions?

by veya_victaous Sun May 22, 2016 1:53 am

eddie wrote:You fail to understand how it really is here Ben. London is tiny. It is SWAMPED.
People are moving out because they feel like outsiders in the town they grew up in.

Maybe you will never understand it but I do.
I always understood the Spanish moaning about the English "taking over" years ago too.

THAT IS NORMAL
WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD

Yes In Major cities all over the World, the hill shepherd longs for the hills where they can be with their hill shepherd cousins.

It is just, as i keep pointing out, that Europe has been insulated from it Mainly because until recently it was the origin of the Migrants going to new homes.
Rolling Eyes

And Inundated How many kilometers in every direction has it expanded? in the past 30 years, Sydney has grow about 20km in the 3 direction is can grow (east is the ocean) Towns that used to be outside of Sydney are no just a suburb where most people commute to the city or one of the minor CBDs from

I literally bought the farm house i did because within a decade or 2 It will be part of suburban Canberra and dramatically increase in value due to the ability to subdivide

As i have also said before down here we don't just accept change we expect change Wink

by nicko Sun May 22, 2016 6:20 am

I see the phrase "hill shepherd " is creeping in more and more from our overseas friends in describing us English. That don't impress me none.

by veya_victaous Sun May 22, 2016 7:20 am

nicko wrote:I see the phrase "hill shepherd " is creeping in more and more from our overseas friends in describing us English. That don't impress me none.

not specifically English Suspect

it applies more to the Middle East and Mediterranean...
at least that is the stereotype that people like Stormee are doing a great job of extending to England.

the old world has so many problems with the 'hill shepherd' mentality, Europe is actually far more like the middle east than it likes to admit silent

I would not say that you had a hill shepherd mentality, But if you let people like stormee talk for England and you got expect the stereotype to start to stick Wink

by veya_victaous Sun May 22, 2016 7:23 am

And there were hill shepherd here a little bit, never as ingrained being a new world nation, but success with multiculturalism plus dollars from china has changed attitudes.

by nicko Sun May 22, 2016 1:41 pm

I heard of a man who was on the dole, at the dole office he was asked what his job was so he could be helped to get back into work, the dole office was in the middle of b,ham.He said his job was as a Shepard,

He is still on the dole!

by Fuzzy Zack Sun May 22, 2016 2:04 pm

Shame such ignorance has come from a Bangladeshi.

If it wasn't for Bangladeshi immigration, the British would be walking around with filthy, stinking hair.

Immigration has played a major part in civilising Britain and making it great. A "closed Britain" is a savage Britain.

by Fuzzy Zack Sun May 22, 2016 2:06 pm

Change is inevitable.

Major cities are always the centre of Immigration. You just has to venture a few miles outside London to see England is predominantly German. Whoops, i meant Anglo Saxon.

by 'Wolfie Sun May 22, 2016 2:40 pm

nicko wrote:
I heard of a man who was on the dole, at the dole office he was asked what his job was so he could be helped to get back into work, the dole office was in the middle of b,ham.He said his job was as a Shepard,

He is still on the dole!

I RECKON if he genuinely wanted work as a shepherd, he'd be out in a rural area looking for work; especially somewhere like Scotland or Wales..

HE could also have claimed to be a chicken sexer or a petfood taster, or maybe a fletcher or a professional wingwalker, a typesetter or a switchboard operator, how about a professional tea taster or a pet psychologist, if he really wanted to flummox the dole office workers. Razz

by nicko Sun May 22, 2016 4:12 pm

He didn't want to work at all, unfortunately there are many like him, as i'm sure there are many like him in your country.

by Original Quill Sun May 22, 2016 4:55 pm

nicko wrote:He didn't want to work at all, unfortunately there are many like him, as i'm sure there are many like him in your country.

Have you evidence for that? Or is this another of your fantasyland conclusions?

by nicko Sun May 22, 2016 8:34 pm

So all people in your country have the sun shining out of their arses and are all hard workers,------pillock.

by veya_victaous Mon May 23, 2016 2:58 am

nicko wrote:He didn't want to work at all, unfortunately there are many like him, as i'm sure there are many like him in your country.

there is, 'housos' is what we call them cause they're in Public Housing.
every nation with decent welfare will always have them, it is just keeping the percentage down to a maintainable level.

But here we move them, in Sydney (Blacktown my local area is a great example, used to be 25% housing commission now it is would be less than 5%) they sell off the public housing now that it's value due to location has skyrocketed, and build more some where cheaper that due to Sydney reaching geographic limitation is going to somewhere else.

by veya_victaous Mon May 23, 2016 3:04 am

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Change is inevitable.

Major cities are always the centre of Immigration. You just has to venture a few miles outside London to see England is predominantly German. Whoops, i meant Anglo Saxon.

Quite right Change is inevitable, the title should be "the evolution of the cockney"

by veya_victaous Mon May 23, 2016 3:08 am

nicko wrote:So all people in your country have the sun shining out of their arses and are all hard workers,------pillock.

in the USA they'd starve or something. Rolling Eyes

they don't have enough welfare, some may argue our nations have too much
but I'd prefer to let the 2-3% of 'natural bludgers' get welfare they don't really deserve than have citizens down on their luck starving and homeless.

by 'Wolfie Mon May 23, 2016 3:57 am

nicko wrote:
So all people in your country have the sun shining out of their arses and are all hard workers,------pillock.

EVERYWHERE you go, there will be a proportion of the workforce that simply don't want to work, but over the years I have noticed that the genuine "shirkers" only make up around 2% of a working age population...

IT WILL often be a larger proportion out in the poorer suburbs simply because that's the only areas they can afford to live in..
THIS IS seen where a state's unemployment level might be below 10%, but with the drift out to those poorer (more affordable) regions, there will be towns with 25-->50% local unemployment spikes.

AT THE SAME TIME, allowance also has to be made for those who aren't in any way avoiding work -- but simply can't find genuine jobs. There may have been industry wide shutdowns (like when a major factory or a steelworks closes..), there is always a preference among many businesses to hire cheaper, younger, even transient workforces wherever possible, many older workers (and those straight out of school..) won't have the requisite skills and qualifications... What a Face

THEN there are those who will never be able to get realistic fulltime jobs, unless they are artificially created for them -- seriously disabled persons; those who are too old, weak, slow; language difficulties..

THERE ARE ALSO pockets of "hidden unemployed" -- spouses or children who may want work, but can't/won't move 2-->3 thousand miles, those between jobs, those who want fulltime work but are stuck with casual or part-time jobs; those unable to access or afford opportunities to upgrade skills; those tied economically to one area, when they simply can't afford to sell up and move elsewhere.. Smile

COUNTRIES with sparse regions and great distances -- like Australia, Canada and Brazil, for example -- also have problems exacerbated by the distance, dismantling of regional railways, shithouse public transport between major centres. SO MUCH that many agricultural areas will have transient and 'backpacker' groups (up to 500 or more at a time !) being used for fruit picking and vege' harvesting -- where locals can't do it because they might only be guaranteed 3-->6 months work at a time..
Then there's those heavily mechanised and automated mining, gas and oil operations that often utilise FIFO skilled workforces, and only use limited numbers of "locals". Suspect

DOWN HERE in Australia there are two sectors of the workforce finding it hard to get genuine work paying a "livable wage" -- young workers who only have an ordinary school education, with no ready qualifications or experience to sell to prospective employers; and those over 45-->50 (depending on the region..) who are hamstrung in their job-hunting efforts by a prevailing management culture in many areas who are often targeting their preferences towards a 25-->35 year old worker that's been trained by somebody else..

THIS "Structural Unemployment" aspect is recognised as such within Economic theory, so much so that when guvm'nts talk of "full emploment" (i.e. a job for everyone who wants one..), they are usually starting from a baseline of an acceptable 3-->5% 'structural unemployment level' (depending on local conditions, population size, demographics..). Neutral

by Ben Reilly Mon May 23, 2016 5:52 am

nicko wrote:I heard of a man who was on the dole, at the dole office he was asked what his job was so he could be helped to get back into work, the dole office was in the middle of b,ham.He said his job was as a Shepard,

He is still on the dole!

Once there was this kid who got into an accident and couldn't come to school. But when he finally came back, his hair had turned from black into bright white. He said that it was from when the cars had smashed him so hard.

Mmmmm ...

by nicko Mon May 23, 2016 6:13 am

??????

by Raggamuffin Mon May 23, 2016 8:34 am

For all this talk of "multiculturalism", most people will gravitate towards others who they perceive are like them. That's why a lot of immigrants live in the same area and "take over" it. They might venture outside of their own culture out of interest, but for daily living they want to be with others they can relate to. The same is true of Londoners. If they were born there and grew up in a certain area they don't want it to change. Why should they? They feel comfortable with people who are like them. I think that Ben and co would be saying a very different thing if a load of people moved in on the natives in Alaska and diluted their culture.

by veya_victaous Mon May 23, 2016 9:35 am

nicko wrote:??????

Ben Quoted a song but the name escapes me

I think your post reads like it could be another verse in the song. Death of the Cockney: A BBC film, Last Whites Of The East End, reveals the seismic effects of mass migration on British communities - and how it's often ethnic minorities who are most worried by it 2190311264

Death of the Cockney: A BBC film, Last Whites Of The East End, reveals the seismic effects of mass migration on British communities - and how it's often ethnic minorities who are most worried by it 2190311264

by veya_victaous Mon May 23, 2016 9:41 am

Raggamuffin wrote:For all this talk of "multiculturalism", most people will gravitate towards others who they perceive are like them. That's why a lot of immigrants live in the same area and "take over" it. They might venture outside of their own culture out of interest, but for daily living they want to be with others they can relate to. The same is true of Londoners. If they were born there and grew up in a certain area they don't want it to change. Why should they? They feel comfortable with people who are like them. I think that Ben and co would be saying a very different thing if a load of people moved in on the natives in Alaska and diluted their culture.

Or it is SO true of londoners that the migrants are forced to, to get treated like normal people Suspect

it is chicken and the egg situation.

The fact that it is Indian sub-continentals is quite, well poor, they were the easiest of the other races integrated the literally live anywhere they even sort of prevented other groups from doing it cause they'd move there too Suspect

by Raggamuffin Mon May 23, 2016 9:41 am

veya_victaous wrote:
nicko wrote:??????

Ben Quoted a song but the name escapes me

I think your post reads like it could be another verse in the song.

by nicko Mon May 23, 2016 10:41 am

What was the name of the group who sang "we come from a land down under"?

by Major Mon May 23, 2016 10:51 am

nicko wrote:What was the name of the group who sang "we come from a land down under"?

'The Arseholes', is the name you mean, nicko lol!

by Raggamuffin Mon May 23, 2016 10:55 am

nicko wrote:What was the name of the group who sang "we come from a land down under"?

Men at Work. Laughing

by HoratioTarr Mon May 23, 2016 1:59 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:For all this talk of "multiculturalism", most people will gravitate towards others who they perceive are like them. That's why a lot of immigrants live in the same area and "take over" it. They might venture outside of their own culture out of interest, but for daily living they want to be with others they can relate to. The same is true of Londoners. If they were born there and grew up in a certain area they don't want it to change. Why should they? They feel comfortable with people who are like them. I think that Ben and co would be saying a very different thing if a load of people moved in on the natives in Alaska and diluted their culture.

Or it is SO true of londoners that the migrants are forced to, to get treated like normal people it is chicken and the egg situation.

The fact that it is Indian sub-continentals is quite, well poor, they were the easiest of the other races integrated the literally live anywhere they even sort of prevented other groups from doing it cause they'd move there too

What planet are you on? If Brits treated foreigners so badly, why do you think they want to live here in the first place? We've been living with migrants for decades with no problems. What you don't get is that people are inherently tribal, and will gravitate towards their own cultures and give preference to those cultures before any other. That doesn't mean everyone else is intolerant of them or they intolerant of everyone else.

by Ben Reilly Mon May 23, 2016 2:07 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:For all this talk of "multiculturalism", most people will gravitate towards others who they perceive are like them. That's why a lot of immigrants live in the same area and "take over" it. They might venture outside of their own culture out of interest, but for daily living they want to be with others they can relate to. The same is true of Londoners. If they were born there and grew up in a certain area they don't want it to change. Why should they? They feel comfortable with people who are like them. I think that Ben and co would be saying a very different thing if a load of people moved in on the natives in Alaska and diluted their culture.

Nah, they'd benefit from that. I think what Brits are freaking out about is how early-generation immigrants tend to form these isolated enclaves. And of course, these can last for generations, but over those generations other members of immigrant communities integrate with mainstream culture and form a bridge between that and the communities they came from.

Today we have people in Texas with Mexican ancestry who tell more recent arrivals from Mexico that that's not how things are done in Texas. It will happen in Britain, too, but it can't happen all at once.

by Raggamuffin Mon May 23, 2016 2:16 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:For all this talk of "multiculturalism", most people will gravitate towards others who they perceive are like them. That's why a lot of immigrants live in the same area and "take over" it. They might venture outside of their own culture out of interest, but for daily living they want to be with others they can relate to. The same is true of Londoners. If they were born there and grew up in a certain area they don't want it to change. Why should they? They feel comfortable with people who are like them. I think that Ben and co would be saying a very different thing if a load of people moved in on the natives in Alaska and diluted their culture.

Or it is SO true of londoners that the migrants are forced to, to get treated like normal people it is chicken and the egg situation.

The fact that it is Indian sub-continentals is quite, well poor, they were the easiest of the other races integrated the literally live anywhere they even sort of prevented other groups from doing it cause they'd move there too

No. If you went to live elsewhere I guarantee that you would seek out other Aussies because you would connect with them.

by 'Wolfie Mon May 23, 2016 4:46 pm

nicko wrote:
What was the name of the group who sang "we come from a land down under"?

Here you go, nicko :

Smile

And a couple more bands along the same line..

santa

by Ben Reilly Mon May 23, 2016 5:01 pm

Stormee wrote:
nicko wrote:What was the name of the group who sang "we come from a land down under"?

'The Arseholes', is the name you mean, nicko

Rude and off-topic (SWIDT?)

by eddie Mon May 23, 2016 6:35 pm

I see. But I don't think storm will lol

by veya_victaous Mon May 23, 2016 11:24 pm

HoratioTarr wrote:
veya_victaous wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:For all this talk of "multiculturalism", most people will gravitate towards others who they perceive are like them. That's why a lot of immigrants live in the same area and "take over" it. They might venture outside of their own culture out of interest, but for daily living they want to be with others they can relate to. The same is true of Londoners. If they were born there and grew up in a certain area they don't want it to change. Why should they? They feel comfortable with people who are like them. I think that Ben and co would be saying a very different thing if a load of people moved in on the natives in Alaska and diluted their culture.

Or it is SO true of londoners that the migrants are forced to, to get treated like normal people it is chicken and the egg situation.

The fact that it is Indian sub-continentals is quite, well poor, they were the easiest of the other races integrated the literally live anywhere they even sort of prevented other groups from doing it cause they'd move there too

What planet are you on? If Brits treated foreigners so badly, why do you think they want to live here in the first place? We've been living with migrants for decades with no problems. What you don't get is that people are inherently tribal, and will gravitate towards their own cultures and give preference to those cultures before any other. That doesn't mean everyone else is intolerant of them or they intolerant of everyone else.

Cause we have been living together for decades longer and have got beyond that. So OBVIOUSLY it is just a bullshit excuse. And the Desire to move to the UK is still significantly lower than the USA or Australia.

What do you not understand that If people accepted base primitive mentalities so easily we would not have the societies we have today.

by Guest Mon May 23, 2016 11:28 pm

Mums family from the east end, it's always had a large immigrant population, used to be first port of call from the docks. People really need to look up the history of the area.

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