More politically correct nonesense

by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 28, 2016 1:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

ANGRY parents have blasted Ofsted after it downgraded a top rural nursery for failing to teach three-year-olds about ETHNIC DIVERSITY.

The education watchdog even penalised Town and Country Kiddies Nursery, Lincs, for not having enough pictures of black and Asian people on the walls.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/7110565/-Top-nursery-school-marked-down-by-Ofsted-for-not-having-enough-pictures-of-black-and-Asian-people-on-the-walls.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/2016/04/27/nursery-penalised-for-not-being-ethnically-diverse-enough/

Another labour legacy...

by HoratioTarr Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:31 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Me neither. We had African kids in our school, and not once did I ever wonder why they had dark skin. Anymore than I wondered why the Chinese kid had olive skin, and the ginger kid had red hair.

So? The educational system should be designed around you?

When I was a kid, I thought my dad was black. I had to learn about different shades of white people, for Christ's sake!

So?

by HoratioTarr Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:32 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:

So? The educational system should be designed around you?

When I was a kid, I thought my dad was black. I had to learn about different shades of white people, for Christ's sake!

Why?

I know. That's about the oddest thing I ever heard.

by Tommy Monk Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:39 pm

There has been a few strange posts by some of late...

by Raggamuffin Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:40 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:There has been a few strange posts by some of late...

I've thought that too. Neutral

by nicko Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:16 am

What is Ben on about?

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:35 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
HoratioTarr wrote:

Me neither. We had African kids in our school, and not once did I ever wonder why they had dark skin. Anymore than I wondered why the Chinese kid had olive skin, and the ginger kid had red hair.

So? The educational system should be designed around you?

When I was a kid, I thought my dad was black. I had to learn about different shades of white people, for Christ's sake!

Why?

He was very dark complected and tanned.

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:36 pm

Mind you, I was two or three years old. I realize you were all born middle aged ...

by eddie Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:18 pm

My dad was also really really dark and had jet black hair. When I was small a lot of my friends thought my dad was half caste. I went home and asked my mum if he was lol!

by eddie Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:24 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:There has been a few strange posts by some of late...

I've thought that too.

Ben has been liberated unto the Miapiachi

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:29 pm

eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:There has been a few strange posts by some of late...

I've thought that too.

Ben has been liberated unto the Miapiachi

Let's not start adding numbers when we've only moved past the subtraction stage. We're still in Zone Orange and the pyramid is still on the horizon.

by Syl Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:35 pm

eddie wrote:My dad was also really really dark and had jet black hair. When I was small a lot of my friends thought my dad was half caste. I went home and asked my mum if he was

Sounds like my Dad....people also said he looked like Max Bygraves ....which is worrying for me cos apparently some people think I look like him.

by eddie Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:47 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:There has been a few strange posts by some of late...

I've thought that too.

Ben has been liberated unto the Miapiachi

Let's not start adding numbers when we've only moved past the subtraction stage. We're still in Zone Orange and the pyramid is still on the horizon.

The pyramid of truth.
Fuck. My mind is blown. Orange blown.

by nicko Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:56 pm

I liked Max Bygraves, I WANNA TELL YOU A STORY!

by Syl Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:58 pm

nicko wrote:I liked Max Bygraves, I WANNA TELL YOU A STORY!

Lol...he was my mums favourite entertainer.

by Ben Reilly Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:42 pm

eddie wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:There has been a few strange posts by some of late...

I've thought that too.

Ben has been liberated unto the Miapiachi

Let's not start adding numbers when we've only moved past the subtraction stage. We're still in Zone Orange and the pyramid is still on the horizon.

The pyramid of truth.
Fuck. My mind is blown. Orange blown.

Prepare for Tin World Like a Star @ heaven

by eddie Sat Apr 30, 2016 12:13 am

Where did you get eleven blue stars from? cyclops

You can now take a "chosen other" to tri-star bridge for reasoning.

by Ben Reilly Sat Apr 30, 2016 4:14 am

eddie wrote:Where did you get eleven blue stars from?
You can now take a "chosen other" to tri-star bridge for reasoning.

1) Murder isn't always forbidden (or permanent)

2) Keeping your toes crossed? albino

by Original Quill Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:23 pm

nicko wrote:Quill, kindly explain in more detail.

Pc is simply a criticism of someone who is in the throes of his own pet peeve, that the outside observer does not share.

For example, we all hate paedophiles, but let's take a look at it from the outside. An outsider would look at that and say, meh...he's just being politically correct. PC is just a term for being overly officious about some value that you, an outside observer, don't think is so important.

It's caught on in RW circles because of all the new LW causes...particularly since the civil rights causes of the 60's. Those causes standout as new, and so their proponents appear overzealous. Yet is equally overzealous for someone to rail on about child molesters, or Muslims, or some value already ensconced in the prevailing ideology. I'm just pointing out that it's all relative, from a value perspective.

by eddie Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:45 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:Where did you get eleven blue stars from?
You can now take a "chosen other" to tri-star bridge for reasoning.

1) Murder isn't always forbidden (or permanent)

2) Keeping your toes crossed?

Of course! Toes crossed and yellow hat ready. cheers

by Ben Reilly Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:34 pm

eddie wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
eddie wrote:Where did you get eleven blue stars from?
You can now take a "chosen other" to tri-star bridge for reasoning.

1) Murder isn't always forbidden (or permanent)

2) Keeping your toes crossed?

Of course! Toes crossed and yellow hat ready.

Huzzah!

by Guest Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:43 pm

Okay how and why will toddlers need to have pictures of a diverse ethnic groups on the wall, when they can barely comprehend many things at this age?
To children of this age, unless racism is introduced. They will view other children, as just other kids. It requires a distorted view and an invention as a social construct, called races. That sadly was formed around racism itself. Humans are biologically the same one race. That should be the most important aspect that is taught. To help educate and eradicate racism in the future. Yes it is important to teach about different ethnic groups, but its not going to be high on the toddlers agenda on what things are important to them.

I would imagine they would be for a 3 year old.
When they are hungry.
When they need to toilet.
When they feel tired.
Play time
Fun
Crying when upset
Continuously ask the question "why"? To every single thing explained to them, showing , their level to understand is very limited.
Its actually silly to teach something so complicated to toddlers, who will not view other children any differently, unless negative nasty views have been taught to them.
Considering I descend through my fathers side from the Mediterranean. That when out in the sun for just a few days, I tend to absorb so much of the sun (hence why I nicknamed Solar Tron). That in Summer time, my skinned dramatically darkens, to a dark Golden brown
Now that is something kids will learn to pick up quickly how are skin tones lighten and darken throughout the year.

For a Nursery, this is well over the top.
7% within the county are foreign born. So its doubtful, they are not going to see or interact with other ethnic groups anyway.
Now many children are bright, but when they are unlikely to even ask such questions, which if they do can be answered. Though again they are not really going to understand. They will see that every person they meet, looks different from everyone else.

This should start within Infants school and only then a very basic understanding

by Tommy Monk Sun May 01, 2016 12:12 am

Hello dodge!!!

lol!

by Ben Reilly Sun May 01, 2016 8:57 am

Paul Ettinger wrote:Okay how and why will toddlers need to have pictures of a diverse ethnic groups on the wall, when they can barely comprehend many things at this age?
To children of this age, unless racism is introduced. They will view other children, as just other kids. It requires a distorted view and an invention as a social construct, called races. That sadly was formed around racism itself. Humans are biologically the same one race. That should be the most important aspect that is taught. To help educate and eradicate racism in the future. Yes it is important to teach about different ethnic groups, but its not going to be high on the toddlers agenda on what things are important to them.

I would imagine they would be for a 3 year old.
When they are hungry.
When they need to toilet.
When they feel tired.
Play time
Fun
Crying when upset
Continuously ask the question "why"? To every single thing explained to them, showing , their level to understand is very limited.
Its actually silly to teach something so complicated to toddlers, who will not view other children any differently, unless negative nasty views have been taught to them.
Considering I descend through my fathers side from the Mediterranean. That when out in the sun for just a few days, I tend to absorb so much of the sun (hence why I nicknamed Solar Tron). That in Summer time, my skinned dramatically darkens, to a dark Golden brown
Now that is something kids will learn to pick up quickly how are skin tones lighten and darken throughout the year.

For a Nursery, this is well over the top.
7% within the county are foreign born. So its doubtful, they are not going to see or interact with other ethnic groups anyway.
Now many children are bright, but when they are unlikely to even ask such questions, which if they do can be answered. Though again they are not really going to understand. They will see that every person they meet, looks different from everyone else.

This should start within Infants school and only then a very basic understanding

Again. If you want to prepare kids for a life living around only white people, by all means, don't require schools to help white kids "come to grips" with the fact that there are more colors than white when it comes to people. If you want to stop being a provincial, backward-looking vestige of a country, you'd better get with the times.

by eddie Sun May 01, 2016 10:25 am

What he said ^^^^^

They're only pictures. And anyone who says "they can barely comprehend things at this age" has absolutely no understanding of children at all!! At all!!
It's laughable tbh.

Children are like sponges!

by veya_victaous Sun May 01, 2016 11:04 am

eddie wrote:What he said ^^^^^

They're only pictures. And anyone who says "they can barely comprehend things at this age" has absolutely no understanding of children at all!! At all!!
It's laughable tbh.

Children are like sponges!

have to agree, alien

children are learning long before they talk.
learned behaviors through osmosis is common to most mammals
even ones far less social than humans.

by eddie Sun May 01, 2016 12:37 pm

veya_victaous wrote:
eddie wrote:What he said ^^^^^

They're only pictures. And anyone who says "they can barely comprehend things at this age" has absolutely no understanding of children at all!! At all!!
It's laughable tbh.

Children are like sponges!

have to agree,
children are learning long before they talk.
learned behaviors through osmosis is common to most mammals
even ones far less social than humans.

Absolutely! They learn the whole time they're awake and then have lots of very vivid and lucid dreams to process what they've learned during their waking hours.
They learn even when you think they haven't seen or listened.

No idea why anyone would think differently?!

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 3:29 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Paul Ettinger wrote:Okay how and why will toddlers need to have pictures of a diverse ethnic groups on the wall, when they can barely comprehend many things at this age?
To children of this age, unless racism is introduced. They will view other children, as just other kids. It requires a distorted view and an invention as a social construct, called races. That sadly was formed around racism itself. Humans are biologically the same one race. That should be the most important aspect that is taught. To help educate and eradicate racism in the future. Yes it is important to teach about different ethnic groups, but its not going to be high on the toddlers agenda on what things are important to them.

I would imagine they would be for a 3 year old.
When they are hungry.
When they need to toilet.
When they feel tired.
Play time
Fun
Crying when upset
Continuously ask the question "why"? To every single thing explained to them, showing , their level to understand is very limited.
Its actually silly to teach something so complicated to toddlers, who will not view other children any differently, unless negative nasty views have been taught to them.
Considering I descend through my fathers side from the Mediterranean. That when out in the sun for just a few days, I tend to absorb so much of the sun (hence why I nicknamed Solar Tron). That in Summer time, my skinned dramatically darkens, to a dark Golden brown
Now that is something kids will learn to pick up quickly how are skin tones lighten and darken throughout the year.

For a Nursery, this is well over the top.
7% within the county are foreign born. So its doubtful, they are not going to see or interact with other ethnic groups anyway.
Now many children are bright, but when they are unlikely to even ask such questions, which if they do can be answered. Though again they are not really going to understand. They will see that every person they meet, looks different from everyone else.

This should start within Infants school and only then a very basic understanding

Again. If you want to prepare kids for a life living around only white people, by all means, don't require schools to help white kids "come to grips" with the fact that there are more colors than white when it comes to people. If you want to stop being a provincial, backward-looking vestige of a country, you'd better get with the times.

Sorry but what did you fail to understand by me stating that this should start when children properly attend schools and not nurseries?
I have no problem with teaching diversity. Again for a 3 year old, it will just confuse them, as they will simply fail to understand. A 3 year old simply has not developed the cognitive levels yet, for this to even be an issue. Unless again this child is taught hateful views themselves. Like i said everyone will look different to a child already and the most you can help them understand at this age with gender. Will be limited to what they can physically see. They will have no grasp of biology. If you start out from a view point that colorizes humans into categories, based off the minor of physical differences for a 3 year old, will actually introduce a difference where biologically none exists. At this age all that a child needs to understand is that humans come in my shades of skin colour. With teaching that they really are no different from any of us, at his age, will prevent the invented belief that humans are divided into different groups. Its at this age, where more than anything, that a simple basic method is used to explain to children.

The sad reality is, we are not even really attempting to eradicate racism by doing this.
We from the earliest ages, continue to teach children , applying the invented social construct of races. Which is then teaching children that humans are then formed into different racial groups. The very thing that creates unscientific differences between humans. All that is doing is continuing to tell children a lie. A big fat lie at that. Hence why they need to be a little older to understand, that the classification of races, is used to protect people from discrimination. By this continued method to use such classifications. It continues to allow for then people to use as a pretext for hate. The only way you will ever eradicated racism, is by scrapping the race classifications and teach children that we are all one biological race.

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 5:22 pm

Paul Ettinger wrote:Okay how and why will toddlers need to have pictures of a diverse ethnic groups on the wall, when they can barely comprehend many things at this age?
To children of this age, unless racism is introduced. They will view other children, as just other kids. It requires a distorted view and an invention as a social construct, called races. That sadly was formed around racism itself. Humans are biologically the same one race. That should be the most important aspect that is taught. To help educate and eradicate racism in the future. Yes it is important to teach about different ethnic groups, but its not going to be high on the toddlers agenda on what things are important to them.
Edited the rest as just pure wasted bandwidth and BILE>>>

Awww, the mental dump of Digdey-doooer...just trying it all under a new AKA {now I've a greater understanding for your vapid method for attacking real new comers around here --- you've ran away and returned so often that you assume every one does it too} relieved

So, now you've become not only a professor of history but one of early child development as well --- Suspect

Sorry, old chap but you must get up to date with your reading and studies because regurgitating those ancient bilge water ideologies from the 30's just won't hold water and you'll get More politically correct nonesense - Page 2 2581891615

More politically correct nonesense - Page 2 2581891615

every time.

Learning About How Young Children Learn Research by Tamar Kushnir in the Department of Human Development at Cornell University sheds light on how young children learn about cause and effect through everyday experiences
file:///C:/Users/Rosie/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/IE/E2CGMNG6/Learning-about-how-children-learn-Kushnir.pdf Cornwell University 2010

There's one source to get you started and don't let that be the last place that you stop...

We've made such great strides with our early childhood studies and what we've learned has brought us out of the 'dark ages' and eons beyond those days of 'Dr. Spock'...so if you're going to use your vast foundation to preach from that soap box then don't let the lack of CURRENT READING MATERIAL keep you from continuing education More politically correct nonesense - Page 2 2190311264

More politically correct nonesense - Page 2 2190311264

by eddie Sun May 01, 2016 8:10 pm

Talking crap Didge.
I've got a level 3 in childcare. I think I'm pretty well placed to tell you that your knowledge is poor.

by Major Sun May 01, 2016 8:13 pm

PC aerosols are wrecking this country along with muzzeeee luvuz.

by Syl Sun May 01, 2016 8:14 pm

Welcome back Stormee. Laughing

by Major Sun May 01, 2016 8:23 pm

Syl wrote:Welcome back Stormee.

Thank you Syl, nice to hear a fair, truthful person speaking.

Dunno how long I will be here though , suppose another UNFAIR banning is around the corner.

That was a JOKE I posted from Charlie Williams the black, unfortunately deceased comedian, he was great for a laff at himself, I had even put a LOL in it.

I luv a joke as everyone on here and other forumz knows.

FAIRNESS FOR ALL.

There is not a rule to say jokes are banned.

by Syl Sun May 01, 2016 8:26 pm

Stormee wrote:
Syl wrote:Welcome back Stormee.

Thank you Syl, nice to hear a fair, truthful person speaking.

Dunno how long I will be here though , suppose another UNFAIR banning is around the corner.

That was a JOKE I posted from Charlie Williams the black, unfortunately deceased comedian, he was great for a laff at himself, I had even put a LOL in it.

I luv a joke as everyone on here and other forumz knows.

FAIRNESS FOR ALL.

There is not a rule to say jokes are banned.

Well I hope people realise that it was a joke and not your own words....though tbf' jokes' like that went out in the 60's.

I used to watch Charlie Williams when he hosted the Golden shot which I liked ......I never really 'got' his humour though....same with lenny Henry years ago, people making fun of themselves never really appealed to me.

by Tommy Monk Sun May 01, 2016 8:30 pm

Hey stormee!!!

Good to see you back!!!

Laughing

by Major Sun May 01, 2016 8:35 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Hey stormee!!!

Good to see you back!!!

Thanks Tommy.

Fairness For All.

by Victorismyhero Sun May 01, 2016 8:47 pm

some people have the social awareness of a mouldy old haggis Rolling Eyes

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 8:59 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
Paul Ettinger wrote:Okay how and why will toddlers need to have pictures of a diverse ethnic groups on the wall, when they can barely comprehend many things at this age?
To children of this age, unless racism is introduced. They will view other children, as just other kids. It requires a distorted view and an invention as a social construct, called races. That sadly was formed around racism itself. Humans are biologically the same one race. That should be the most important aspect that is taught. To help educate and eradicate racism in the future. Yes it is important to teach about different ethnic groups, but its not going to be high on the toddlers agenda on what things are important to them.
Edited the rest as just pure wasted bandwidth and BILE>>>

We've made such great strides with our early childhood studies and what we've learned has brought us out of the 'dark ages' and eons beyond those days of 'Dr. Spock'...so if you're going to use your vast foundation to preach from that soap box then don't let the lack of CURRENT READING MATERIAL keep you from continuing education

I edited out of your reply the parts that had no relevance to the topic at hand.
Again, people are simply failing to understand this.
Where I have also stated that at present the teaching around diversity should start within schools, but this policy is never going to be the solution to the problem of racism itself. So again understand, I am happy with the diversity teaching, but my view is that a 3 year old will unless taught otherwise, treat other children as just other kids. By continuing this belief, and as we have seen for centuries, people will hate others due to an unfounded invented view that believes there are multiple human races. As biologically races do not exist within human. And this diversity is continuing to maintain these racial classifications. The very things that instead of uniting us, separate us into imaginary human racial groups. If the classifications are scrapped, then all humans are taught rightly as one race. The diversity training should then be based around peoples ethnicity, nationality, religions, political beliefs, gender, sexuality, disabilities likes and do not likes etc.The sad fact that we continually separate humans into racial groups, based on nothing more than some very minor physical appearance differences. None of which creates any humans biologically into a separate racial group.
The whole idea to eradicate racism, is by teaching that human races biologically do not exist.
The biggest problem for continuing these racial classifications. Is how it keeps humanity very much separated from each other. That continuing
to teach humans as separate through races. Will then continue to have people invent or expand upon unfounded racial stereotypes, that clearly biologically do not exist. So the classifications only purpose is to actually enable racism itself. By separating humans into imaginary racial groups, due to a misguided belief, that this the best way to combat and protect people from racism and discrimination

We should protect people by combating discrimination based on our identities..
Racism would become extinct within a few generations, if racial classifications did not exist. You may then find also people being able more to get along with each other.

(1) Personal identity (Heart, character, way of thinking)

(2) Registration identity (Nationality, Gender, sexuality Legal names, ID number, fingerprints, physical address etc)

(3) Cultural identity (Language, religious believes, customs, politics, ethnicity)

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 9:58 pm

Here is a book I recommend people to obtain and read on this matter.

The Biological and Social Meaning of Skin Color

Living Color is the first book to investigate the social history of skin color from prehistory to the present, showing how our body’s most visible feature influences our social interactions in profound and complex ways. Nina Jablonski begins this fascinating and wide-ranging work with an explanation of the biology and evolution of skin pigmentation, tracing how skin color changed as humans moved around the globe, exploring the relationship between melanin and sunlight, and examining the consequences of mismatches between our skin color and our environment due to rapid migrations, vacations, and other life-style choices.

Aided by plentiful illustrations, this book also explains why skin color has become a biological trait with great social meaning—a product of evolution perceived differently by different cultures. It considers how we form impressions of others, how we create and use stereotypes, and how prejudices about dark skin developed and have played out through history—including as justification for the transatlantic slave trade. Offering examples of how attitudes toward skin color differ in the United States, Brazil, India, and South Africa, Jablonski suggests that a knowledge of the evolution and social importance of skin color can help eliminate color-based discrimination and racism.

http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520283862

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 11:02 pm

Paul Ettinger wrote:Didge aka/Paul stated > Here is a book I recommend people to obtain and read on this matter.
The Biological and Social Meaning of Skin Color
Living Color is the first book to investigate the social history of skin color from prehistory to the present, showing how our body’s most visible feature influences our social interactions in profound and complex ways. Nina Jablonski begins this fascinating and wide-ranging work with an explanation of the biology and evolution of skin pigmentation, tracing how skin color changed as humans moved around the globe, exploring the relationship between melanin and sunlight, and examining the consequences of mismatches between our skin color and our environment due to rapid migrations, vacations, and other life-style choices.

http://www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520283862

That suggestion has ZERO to do with early childhood education - ZIP/NADA/NOTHING.

And if we EVER had a discussion about the impact of skin tone vs environment vs social interactions then that would be one of many reference books to use for such an adult discussion; but you couldn't have just randomly grabbed a book off of the library shelf to prove your ineptness about childhood learning and how they observe and absorb and need to be shown loads of visual stimulations from all of our social/racial walks of life!

Learning About How Young Children Learn Research by Tamar Kushnir in the Department of Human Development at Cornell University sheds light on how young children learn about cause and effect through everyday experiences
file:///C:/Users/Rosie/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/IE/E2CGMNG6/Learning-about-how-children-learn-Kushnir.pdf Cornwell University 2010

Like Eddie stated; she's got light years over your limited examples, with her advantage of educational teaching to the 3rd years of life and you assume that you have great knowledge then her education level and THAT's the best you can present Rolling Eyes

I am impressed that your newest method for adult discussions have vastly improved with each and every avatar/AKA you're taking on; and that shows some maturity and willingness to grow --- but you just keep grabbing onto this unwillingness to let go of a false ideology for things that you can't comprehend and child learning isn't your FORTÉ.
Let it go Didge...pick another battle; this isn't the one to push your limited education farther then you already have exhausted it! Suspect

by Tommy Monk Sun May 01, 2016 11:21 pm

And this is what a group of childcare 'professionals' are capable of...

"The Untold Story of Baby P was absolutely right to unmask the failures of agencies which had largely escaped whipping. The police were basically hopeless, except at covering their own backsides. Great Ormond Street Hospital did not provide adequate staffing for St Ann’s Hospital, where a badly injured Peter was examined in his final hours by an inexperienced locum. Even worse were the attempts made to stop Dr Kim Holt from revealing that paediatricians at St Ann’s had been warning for two years that they could not keep children safe.

Yet, in the end, it was Shoesmith’s department that missed the opportunity to get Peter to safety. It was Maria Ward who paid a visit to Baby P on July 30 and failed to notice that his mother had smeared his face with chocolate to hide hideous injuries. Four days later, he was dead. And it was Haringey social workers who over-ruled a police directive to take the baby into care.

Surely Shoesmith would now accept that there were serious failures, Evan Davis asked her on Newsnight. “It depends how we’re gonna define serious, doesn’t it?” replied Shoesmith, instantly undoing any repairs to her reputation the documentary had made. When Davis insisted that it was a serious failure to say, “Leave the baby with its mother” when police had advised the contrary, Shoesmith replied with icy condescension: “That’s a diluted version of a debate between professionals.”

And here we come to the heart of it. If “professionals” have all agreed, then what business does Joe Public have insisting that a baby, who was seen 60 times by the authorities, should have been taken away from his hellish home with all speed?

Evan Davis is the most sweet-tempered and tolerant of interviewers, but even he was having trouble when Shoesmith explained that, although Peter was a victim of familial child homicide, “you know we have all been victims in this”.

No, actually, Sharon. One of you is alive with a £690,000 payout for wrongful dismissal. The other is in his tiny grave. Any attempt at moral equivalence between the two “victims” is repugnant and deluded.

The Untold Story of Baby P was a shockingly biased piece of work. It did exactly what it accused The Sun of doing – ignoring key facts to make a better story. Why, for example, were we not told that Maria Ward and a Haringey colleague lost their appeal for “unfair dismissal”? Because it didn’t fit the “social workers were wrongly blamed” narrative.

And blaming the blamers is the name of the game. Isn’t there more than a growing suspicion that certain managers in our public services are better at self-justification than they are at self-sacrifice, let alone self-criticism? In cases as diverse as the Rotherham police and council officials who ignored the sexual abuse of 1,400 children, and yesterday’s report into “catastrophic mistakes” in the NHS, we find a constant failure to apologise or take responsibility. These people have been programmed to use terms such as transparency and accountability, but actions speak louder than words.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/children/11196211/In-Baby-Ps-case-actions-speak-louder-than-words.html

by eddie Sun May 01, 2016 11:27 pm

Green for you, 4ever.

Let me add; I always bow to a greater knowledge and if I am not well-versed in something, I will always say so - I don't care if I come across dumb, (sometimes I am!!) but if I have no knowledge, I just won't argue a point.

But just like you, education is something I know about, having been in it and studied it (and gained a few qualifications).

I am totally behind and with you on this. Children are learning from the moment they are born and the first five years particularly, are instrumental, in their learning and progression.

I'm afraid Paul/didge has little knowledge of this subject and it shows.

by eddie Sun May 01, 2016 11:28 pm

Tommy, what has the case, of poor baby P, got to do with teaching children, inclusion?
Am I missing something?

by Tommy Monk Sun May 01, 2016 11:38 pm

Eddie... it is what a group of highly qualified professionals are capable of...!

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 11:38 pm

4EVER2 wrote:

Learning About How Young Children Learn Research by Tamar Kushnir in the Department of Human Development at Cornell University sheds light on how young children learn about cause and effect through everyday experiences
file:///C:/Users/Rosie/AppData/Local/Microsoft/Windows/INetCache/IE/E2CGMNG6/Learning-about-how-children-learn-Kushnir.pdf Cornwell University 2010

Edited again to remove points of no relevance.
Again at what point and within my answers, did you fail to see I back diversity and diversity education?.
I am rightly though challenging how the present methods which continues to use and maintain racial classifications. Will never be able to eradicate racism. As racism is being allowed to continue to exist, through the serration of humans into different racial groups.
Clearly by teaching there is different racial groups, helps then maintain people forming prejudices, that they invent and associate unscientifically to different racial groups. These classifications, where again are done to help protect people from racial discrimination. Also helps racists maintain the stereotypes and prejudices towards people. Can you not see that if by removing any racial classification, you then deny racists the very thing they require and need in order to make claims, that a certain race is inferior. If there is only one biological human race, you have then denied them, the means to claim a racial prejudice.
So to repeat again, i am all for diversity education that includes, ethnicity, cultures, gender etc, etc, starting when children first attend school.
So by then also teaching them an invented social construct, that has no biological bases. Into Different human races,.How then will you be able to then eradicate racism? When you are teaching a falsehood, which then continues separates people into racial group, the very requirement needed by racists, as the bases of their prejudice.

Like i said, such a method, will never then eradicate but continue to keep racism, sadly very much alive.

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 11:40 pm

eddie wrote:Green for you, 4ever.
Let me add; I always bow to a greater knowledge and if I am not well-versed in something, I will always say so - I don't care if I come across dumb, (sometimes I am!!) but if I have no knowledge, I just won't argue a point.

But just like you, education is something I know about, having been in it and studied it (and gained a few qualifications).

I am totally behind and with you on this. Children are learning from the moment they are born and the first five years particularly, are instrumental, in their learning and progression.

I'm afraid Paul/didge has little knowledge of this subject and it shows.

Well, TY...I came into my training really late in life and it wasn't until my work with the children diagnosed with Autism that my need to know more got tweaked in a huge way and then I couldn't find enough resource material fast enough.
But Didge/Paul is way off base and lost at sea about his opinion on childhood education and when/what and how little humans start learning and he just really needs to back off and pick another battle --- cause this one he's already in the wrong uniform! LOL Wink

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 11:54 pm

4EVER2 wrote:
eddie wrote:Green for you, 4ever.
Let me add; I always bow to a greater knowledge and if I am not well-versed in something, I will always say so - I don't care if I come across dumb, (sometimes I am!!) but if I have no knowledge, I just won't argue a point.

But just like you, education is something I know about, having been in it and studied it (and gained a few qualifications).

I am totally behind and with you on this. Children are learning from the moment they are born and the first five years particularly, are instrumental, in their learning and progression.

I'm afraid Paul/didge has little knowledge of this subject and it shows.
Well, TY...I came into my training really late in life and it wasn't until my work with the children diagnosed with Autism that my need to know more got tweaked in a huge way and then I couldn't find enough resource material fast enough.
But Didge/Paul is way off base and lost at sea about his opinion on childhood education and when/what and how little humans start learning and he just really needs to back off and pick another battle --- cause this one he's already in the wrong uniform! LOL

But again you fail to understand that biologically races do not exist.
By teaching and placing people into racial groups, through racial classifications, provides the bases to then form, continue and maintain racial prejudice. If you remove the means for racists to discriminate and teach that humans are instead one biological race. They then have no ability to forma prejudice racial view. They are then only left with only being able to formulate prejudices based other means that associate people together.
I am by all means happy if you wish to talk around mew and not answer any of my points

by Guest Sun May 01, 2016 11:57 pm

Clipped from the article > the education watchdog even penalised Town and Country Kiddies Nursery in Lincolnshire for not having enough pictures of black and Asian people on the walls.
In a report, inspectors criticised the nursery , which caters for children aged from eight-weeks to 11 years, for failing to teach youngsters about other cultures.
It stated: "Staff do not provide enough opportunities for children to develop a strong sense of belonging at the nursery and to learn about people who are different to themselves."
As a result, the nursery in Market Rasen was stripped of its 'outstanding' status it was given in 2012 and is now rated 'good'.

because you've become so accustomed to derailing any thread with your diatribe and verbal mantra {that goes above and beyond the whelm of sanity}...please - PLEASE read that little snippet that I pulled forward for you.

Not that you'll comprehend any of it --- but should you be able to grasp just the basics then you'll see just how afar off the field you've ran your argument and you are LOST!
Good Luck...I'm quite finished with your tom-foolery! jocolor

by Guest Mon May 02, 2016 12:15 am

4EVER2 wrote:
Clipped from the article > the education watchdog even penalised Town and Country Kiddies Nursery in Lincolnshire for not having enough pictures of black and Asian people on the walls.
In a report, inspectors criticised the nursery , which caters for children aged from eight-weeks to 11 years, for failing to teach youngsters about other cultures.
It stated: "Staff do not provide enough opportunities for children to develop a strong sense of belonging at the nursery and to learn about people who are different to themselves."
As a result, the nursery in Market Rasen was stripped of its 'outstanding' status it was given in 2012 and is now rated 'good'.
because you've become so accustomed to derailing any thread with your diatribe and verbal mantra {that goes above and beyond the whelm of sanity}...please - PLEASE read that little snippet that I pulled forward for you.

Not that you'll comprehend any of it --- but should you be able to grasp just the basics then you'll see just how afar off the field you've ran your argument and you are LOST!
Good Luck...I'm quite finished with your tom-foolery!

So based on how now on 3 of my posts to you, where you talked mainly about me in all the replies, and you claim I have lost. Though as to what you claim I have lost i am unsure what you speak of.
How strange indeed.
So in other words, what your last reply really translates as saying. Is that you are offering up excuses as to why you failed to answer or even formulate not one single actual; answer to actually being able to eradicate racism.
It shows how much more i want to see the end of racism, based on how much I have researched this for years.
If you have no wish to further engage on this.
Then i bid you a fond farewell for now

by Cass Mon May 02, 2016 3:08 am

eddie wrote:Green for you, 4ever.

Let me add; I always bow to a greater knowledge and if I am not well-versed in something, I will always say so - I don't care if I come across dumb, (sometimes I am!!) but if I have no knowledge, I just won't argue a point.

But just like you, education is something I know about, having been in it and studied it (and gained a few qualifications).

I am totally behind and with you on this. Children are learning from the moment they are born and the first five years particularly, are instrumental, in their learning and progression.

I'm afraid Paul/didge has little knowledge of this subject and it shows.

Absolutely. Its why early Literacy is such a big subject now. Talk, sing, read and show books to your children starting when they are newborns. Play music too. Ive had children as young as 3 weeks old at storytimes. It was a national UK campaign when I was a librarian there whereby we partnered with midwives and GPs and health clinics to give out book bags at the first 3 developmental checks and then they would come to the library for the final 2 just before and at preschool age. I'm glad to see that is happening here too. Its something that I keep mentioning at state and regional forums, because it is so important.

Picture books, and children's books in general are becoming more diverse every year which is fantastic and dealing with sensitive topics such as death, family economic hardships, ethnicity, same sex parents, sickness, divorce, step and Multics generation families etc...its mind blowing and so well written and illustrated. Every year it gets better and better!

by Guest Mon May 02, 2016 9:31 am

Cass wrote:
eddie wrote:Green for you, 4ever.
Let me add; I always bow to a greater knowledge and if I am not well-versed in something, I will always say so - I don't care if I come across dumb, (sometimes I am!!) but if I have no knowledge, I just won't argue a point.
But just like you, education is something I know about, having been in it and studied it (and gained a few qualifications).
I am totally behind and with you on this. Children are learning from the moment they are born and the first five years particularly, are instrumental, in their learning and progression.
I'm afraid Paul/didge has little knowledge of this subject and it shows.
Absolutely. Its why early Literacy is such a big subject now. Talk, sing, read and show books to your children starting when they are newborns. Play music too. Ive had children as young as 3 weeks old at storytimes. It was a national UK campaign when I was a librarian there whereby we partnered with midwives and GPs and health clinics to give out book bags at the first 3 developmental checks and then they would come to the library for the final 2 just before and at preschool age. I'm glad to see that is happening here too. Its something that I keep mentioning at state and regional forums, because it is so important.

Picture books, and children's books in general are becoming more diverse every year which is fantastic and dealing with sensitive topics such as death, family economic hardships, ethnicity, same sex parents, sickness, divorce, step and Multics generation families etc...its mind blowing and so well written and illustrated. Every year it gets better and better!

Concur completely and as this specific topic is about 'CHILD DEVELOPEMENT YEARS' at the earliest stages {not as Didgy-dooer keeps missing the point} as the article first paragraphs so pointedly proved > > >

Clipped from the article > the education watchdog even penalised Town and Country Kiddies Nursery in Lincolnshire for not having enough pictures of black and Asian people on the walls.
In a report, inspectors criticised the nursery , which caters for children aged from eight-weeks to 11 years, for failing to teach youngsters about other cultures.
It stated: "Staff do not provide enough opportunities for children to develop a strong sense of belonging at the nursery and to learn about people who are different to themselves."
As a result, the nursery in Market Rasen was stripped of its 'outstanding' status it was given in 2012 and is now rated 'good'.

These are "EDUCATION SPECIALISTS"...and their only field of expertise is early childhood education and the methods of how children in England learn and what they need to be exposed to daily to help broaden their minds and enrich their social understandings for all greater balance of their SOCIAL ORDER.
"EDUCATION SPECIALISTS = people qualified to make those decisions! Something that flies right over the head of our Didgy-dooer/Paul and his assumptions that "I have studied this for many years"...and that quantifies his as the greater {beyond all doubt}educated human in this topic ---

Nope, NO - NO WAY...Didgy-dooer/Paul, your POINTS are pointless and have zero merit and thus you have no foundation to argue any reasoning against --- your lack of true facts and knowledge about EARLY CHILDHOOD EDUCATION has been prove lacking so your POV is pointless.
Back away before your hole just becomes your own burial plot More politically correct nonesense - Page 2 2686688521

More politically correct nonesense - Page 2 2686688521

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