Catholic mother admits she has questioned her faith — and believers respond by heaping abuse on her

First topic message reminder :

Sonia Guizar used to attend mass regularly and teach at a Catholic school. But her Catholic employer’s refusal to cover birth control brought her an ill-timed pregnancy and a child with developmental challenges that stretch her family thin. When she publicly shared her experience and questioned Church teachings in a Washington Post story, what she got was a heap of abuse from fellow Catholics whose urge to defend religious dogma and authority trumped their kindness and compassion. Guizar’s story may be a very distant echo of the horrendous slaughter being perpetrated by Jihadis shouting “Allahu akbar!”—but it is an echo nonetheless. One of religion’s most heinous characteristics is that it elevates defense of faith above compassion, inspiring mean and aggressive behavior in the names of gods.

The American Supreme Court is considering a “religious freedom” claim by a Catholic charity, the Little Sisters of the Poor, that wants to deny contraception coverage to employees in their chain of nursing homes—mostly working poor women who can ill afford either out-of-pocket birth control costs or a surprise pregnancy. They further want to block the same employees from gaining access to free contraception via an “opt out” mechanism, a religious exemption already established under Obamacare. With the case making news and drawing protests, Guizar shared her own experience of needing birth control that she and her husband couldn’t afford. Fearing she would be fired by her Catholic employer if she tried to get the IUD recommended by her doctor, Guizar and her husband tried to make do with “natural family planning” and ended up pregnant. Their son, born from that pregnancy, has developmental delays and requires therapy multiple times weekly; and the whole ordeal has caused her to question her faith.

Her story is both ordinary and heartbreaking, and most people reading it would ache for her. But in dozens of comments, Catholic defenders of the faith saw fit to instead question either the legitimacy of her devotion, or her strength or integrity:

This is such an obvious hit piece–no catholic would ever say “I no longer celebrate mass” every catholic knows that only a priest can celebrate a mass. [not true]

You couldn’t afford birth control? Really? That’s ridiculous [not true] . . . . And you call yourself a ‘devout’ Catholic and NOT following their doctrine? Again, you don’t know what either devout and/or Catholic means. —Angie Sharp

Then you really were not a Catholic to begin with. Now you just write really dumb stuff! Congratulations you are progressing. I’m sure God will forgive your idiotic apostasy.—Wasachnorth [See No True Scotsman Fallacy]

The Apostle Paul was shipwrecked, tortured and thrown in different jails. You? Well you were told to not use birth control and your faith crumbled. —Give-me-Liberty

The amazing and great thing about America is that you can change your employment! Yes, I know it sounds incredible, but it can be done! If The Church has a tenet that you do not agree with, and it does, then you can adopt a creed more to your liking or get another job. Problem solved. —Steve Fotos

Go find another job. You signed an employment agreement. —Robert PS

I can’t believe this lady ever was a devout Catholic, she may have though she was, but it is obvious she has little understanding of faith and a great understanding of the secular world. . . . If she were really a devout Catholic she might try to follow the example of Mary in saying yes to God, instead of the example of Eve who said no to God and yes to the Snake! —Yvonne Yadler Bean
#
Natural planning is just as effective as any other birth control method. [not true—1 in 4 annual pregnancy rate vs 1 in 2000.] . . . . If you really are devout catholic, you should known what the church teaches and if you don’t like it work somewhere else. —pattyanna

Sonia is missing the boat as a “devout” catholic. She says she would have as many children as God intended but cant afford??????????? If her faith in God is solid, then he will take care of the financial “burden” that comes with having kids. As a fellow Catholic . . . .—Hannah Pharis

Perhaps you should read the bible again. JOB would have loved to have been hit with the issue of contraception as opposed to having this faith tried by the loss of his entire family! But you are devout? —Jane1000

If you don’t like your faith because your employer doesn’t pay for contraceptives, than you’ve never had one in the first place. Go demagogue somewhere else.—Pete r Gray



There are many morals or themes that could be drawn from Sonia’s story: The enormous human cost of the Vatican’s anti-contraception stance, especially when it leaves families struggling to care for children with developmental issues (think Zika). The fact that a modern IUD or implant (both of which have bonus health benefits) can be life changing for a woman and her family. The crass dishonesty of any person or institution claiming to be a friend to the poor (or “Little Sister of the Poor”) while denying poor families the means to delay or limit childbearing. The fascinating psychology of religion that compels people to lie to themselves and others once they accept a dogma. The fact most American Catholics follow their own conscience and use modern contraception at some point despite Papal edict. The fact that Catholic tradition itself is conflicted about individuals making this decision.

But during a month of jihadist violence—executions in Ivory Coast, a bombing in Brussels and a bombing in Istanbul, all by people who see themselves as defending the one true faith–what strikes me most about Sonia’s story is the mundane cruelty of her detractors, the fact that even on a topic as ordinary as family planning or a setting as minor as a Washington Post comment thread, religious belief has the power to trump humanity’s deepest shared ethic—the Golden Rule—and our most cherished moral emotion: compassion. I have written in the past about “religion’s dirty dozen,” twelve really bad religious ideas that have made the world worse. The idea that religious beliefs themselves matter more than love and kindness, more than our shared humanity, should be at the top of the list.

Valerie Tarico is a psychologist and writer in Seattle, Washington. She is the author of Trusting Doubt: A Former Evangelical Looks at Old Beliefs in a New Light and Deas and Other Imaginings, and the founder of www.WisdomCommons.org. Her articles about religion, reproductive health, and the role of women in society have been featured at sites including AlterNet, Salon, the Huffington Post, Grist, and Jezebel. Subscribe at ValerieTarico.com.


http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/catholic-mother-admits-she-has-questioned-her-faith-and-believers-respond-by-heaping-abuse-on-her/


Hence why again religion does little good and is hugely damaging

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's not relevant. If you think it is, let's discuss why you're so full of hatred shall we?

lol so where I am defending love, the poor, equality is full of hate to you



Classic

Arguing for the sake of it, more like. 

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:


Beggars belief

The point is she should not be denied having the choice of treatment based on religious gibberish

How many more time will you fail to grasp that?

Seriously or do you just hate poor people?

I've been poor.   Very poor.   And guess what?   I ensured I only ever had one child.    

I think you and I agree that religion is a pile of steaming shit.   I don't subscribe to it.   However, if someone is stupid enough to slavishly let it dictate their most private and intimate lives and choices,  do what this woman and her partner has, then serve her right for being so fucking stupid.   

So, no, I don't have any sympathy for her.

I grew up with 6 brothers and 4 sisters and was very poor

It did not stop my parents from having a 11 children, where they always placed our needs first

So spare me any babble on what you know about what its like to be poor please.

You are defending inequality and poorly so also down beating on poor people o not express love through sex


So you are another one that lacks any understanding of love

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:


lol so where I am defending love, the poor, equality is full of hate to you



Classic

Arguing for the sake of it, more like. 

Wrong, grow up dickhead

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Is that a good reason not to use condoms instead?

Yes, if you have a high risk of having a child with serious birth defects, which she did.

So she knew that any pregnancy had a high instance of the child being born with defects?

Didge wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Arguing for the sake of it, more like. 

Wrong, grow up dickhead

How's that meal for one going down?

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Is that a good reason not to use condoms instead?

Yes, if you have a high risk of having a child with serious birth defects, which she did.

Now we're coming to it aren't we? Well done ...

However, there's nothing to indicate that she knew or suspected her kid would have birth defects before she had him. There's also no suggestion that he did have a birth defect, merely that he has "development delays".

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:

Wrong, grow up dickhead

How's that meal for one going down?

Going out to dinner actually lol

Is that how you get at people?

Seriously, how immature again, so you take great pleasure if people are single, even though I am married and separated by the fact she is in South Africa as a full time carer for her Mother

What a vile person you just proved to be, which is not going to bother me but exposes you for what you are

Thanks

Didge wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I've been poor.   Very poor.   And guess what?   I ensured I only ever had one child.    

I think you and I agree that religion is a pile of steaming shit.   I don't subscribe to it.   However, if someone is stupid enough to slavishly let it dictate their most private and intimate lives and choices,  do what this woman and her partner has, then serve her right for being so fucking stupid.   

So, no, I don't have any sympathy for her.

I grew up with 6 brothers and 4 sisters and was very poor

It did not stop my parents from having a 11 children, where they always placed our needs first

So spare me any babble on what you know about what its like to be poor please.

You are defending inequality and poorly so also down beating on poor people o not express love through sex


So you are another one that lacks any understanding of love

Who cares how many siblings you have or how poor you've been.  You'll be trumpeting about how nobody was as poverty stricken as you next!    80 years ago when you were born there was no contraception as we know it.  We're talking about now, you clown.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:


I grew up with 6 brothers and 4 sisters and was very poor

It did not stop my parents from having a 11 children, where they always placed our needs first

So spare me any babble on what you know about what its like to be poor please.

You are defending inequality and poorly so also down beating on poor people o not express love through sex


So you are another one that lacks any understanding of love

Who cares how many siblings you have or how poor you've been.  You'll be trumpeting about how nobody was as poverty stricken as you next!    80 years when you were born there was no contraception as we know it.  We're talking about now, you clown.

Point so over your head.

My parents were raised Catholics and knew no better or would use contraception, the point you are missing in all this.

Again they placed their children first even though they had very little money showing again you wish to beat down on the poor, when they were very much in love.

Again the point you miss is its catholic teaching and discrimination by the company to deny contraceptives

Again you advocate inequality, it seems only LGTB rights that you give a shit about, which shows you are no champion of equality, but a hypocrite

Didge wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

How's that meal for one going down?

Going out to dinner actually lol

Is that how you get at people?

Seriously, how immature again, so you take great pleasure if people are single, even though I am married and separated by the fact she is in South Africa as a full time carer for her Mother

What a vile person you just proved to be, which is not going to bother me but exposes you for what you are

Thanks

yeah, right.    Go get into your sta-prest pants and polyester shirt and get the Robin Reliant revved up or you'll be late! 

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:


Going out to dinner actually lol

Is that how you get at people?

Seriously, how immature again, so you take great pleasure if people are single, even though I am married and separated by the fact she is in South Africa as a full time carer for her Mother

What a vile person you just proved to be, which is not going to bother me but exposes you for what you are

Thanks

yeah, right.    Go get into your sta-prest pants and polyester shirt and get the Robin Reliant revved up or you'll be late! 

Why would I drive when I can walk 200 years to the restaurant

As to clothes, my wardrobe is no doubt more expensive than your car lol


Thank you for proving what a child you are lol

Bet your single friends love you lol

Didge wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Who cares how many siblings you have or how poor you've been.  You'll be trumpeting about how nobody was as poverty stricken as you next!    80 years when you were born there was no contraception as we know it.  We're talking about now, you clown.

Point so over your head.

My parents were raised Catholics and knew no better or would use contraception, the point you are missing in all this.

Again they placed their children first even though they had very little money showing again you wish to beat down on the poor, when they were very much in love.

Again the point you miss is its catholic teaching and discrimination by the company to deny contraceptives

Again you advocate inequality, it seems only LGTB rights that you give a shit about, which shows you are no champion of equality, but a hypocrite

They chose to be Catholics. One can be a Christian without being a Catholic you know.

Anyway, it all explains your bitterness against the Catholic Church.

Didge wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

yeah, right.    Go get into your sta-prest pants and polyester shirt and get the Robin Reliant revved up or you'll be late! 

Why would I drive when I can walk 200 years to the restaurant

As to clothes, my wardrobe is no doubt more expensive than your car lol


Thank you for proving what a child you are lol

Bet your single friends love you lol

Brag brag brag....

You're hilarious! 

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:


Why would I drive when I can walk 200 years to the restaurant

As to clothes, my wardrobe is no doubt more expensive than your car lol


Thank you for proving what a child you are lol

Bet your single friends love you lol

Brag brag brag....

You're hilarious! 

Thanks, you are still a child though lol

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Point so over your head.

My parents were raised Catholics and knew no better or would use contraception, the point you are missing in all this.

Again they placed their children first even though they had very little money showing again you wish to beat down on the poor, when they were very much in love.

Again the point you miss is its catholic teaching and discrimination by the company to deny contraceptives

Again you advocate inequality, it seems only LGTB rights that you give a shit about, which shows you are no champion of equality, but a hypocrite

They chose to be Catholics. One can be a Christian without being a Catholic you know.

Anyway, it all explains your bitterness against the Catholic Church.

It sure does.

I have two cars - just saying.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Point so over your head.

My parents were raised Catholics and knew no better or would use contraception, the point you are missing in all this.

Again they placed their children first even though they had very little money showing again you wish to beat down on the poor, when they were very much in love.

Again the point you miss is its catholic teaching and discrimination by the company to deny contraceptives

Again you advocate inequality, it seems only LGTB rights that you give a shit about, which shows you are no champion of equality, but a hypocrite

They chose to be Catholics. One can be a Christian without being a Catholic you know.

Anyway, it all explains your bitterness against the Catholic Church.

I detest the catholic church as it has been behind so much pain, suffering death, murder its beyond belief

Who on earth would defend that?

They did not choose they were brainwashed from birth as many Catholics are

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They chose to be Catholics. One can be a Christian without being a Catholic you know.

Anyway, it all explains your bitterness against the Catholic Church.

I detest the catholic church as it has been behind so much pain, suffering death, murder its beyond belief

Who on earth would defend that?

They did not choose they were brainwashed from birth as many Catholics are

You're talking from a position of prejudice - something you don't appear to approve of.

Of course they chose to be Catholics.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


I detest the catholic church as it has been behind so much pain, suffering death, murder its beyond belief

Who on earth would defend that?

They did not choose they were brainwashed from birth as many Catholics are

You're talking from a position of prejudice - something you don't appear to approve of.

Of course they chose to be Catholics.

No, just history, which shows you know nothing of the history of the catholic church, how it profited off slavery, its complicity to the holocaust, among many other things, showing your again poor understanding of history

Most people do not choose religion when raised and indoctrinated from birth.
It was spoon fed into the, and of that generation even more so

Raggamuffin wrote:I have two cars - just saying.

Oh noes, now he'll have to have three or even four!

HoratioTarr wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:I have two cars - just saying.

Oh noes, now he'll have to have three or even four!

Why, when I only need one

Opps

I love how you are so wound up ha ha

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They chose to be Catholics. One can be a Christian without being a Catholic you know.

Anyway, it all explains your bitterness against the Catholic Church.

I detest the catholic church as it has been behind so much pain, suffering death, murder its beyond belief

Who on earth would defend that?

They did not choose they were brainwashed from birth as many Catholics are

So are extremists.

Tag teaming and between them they cannot come up with any decent wit

Didge wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

Oh noes, now he'll have to have three or even four!

Why, when I only need one

Opps

I love how you are so wound up ha ha

It takes a better man than you to wind me up.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:


I detest the catholic church as it has been behind so much pain, suffering death, murder its beyond belief

Who on earth would defend that?

They did not choose they were brainwashed from birth as many Catholics are

So are extremists.

Indeed and again another problem with religion, even more so with those literal believers

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

You're talking from a position of prejudice - something you don't appear to approve of.

Of course they chose to be Catholics.

No, just history, which shows you know nothing of the history of the catholic church, how it profited off slavery, its complicity to the holocaust, among many other things, showing your again poor understanding of history

Most people do not choose religion when raised and indoctrinated from birth.
It was spoon fed into the, and of that generation even more so

And yet it has many followers, so clearly they get something out of it.

I'm sure you've said before that some people choose to be religious, and that's how you justify your constant attacks on those with faith. Now you're changing your tune completely.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:

Why, when I only need one

Opps

I love how you are so wound up ha ha

It takes a better man than you to wind me up.

But the above proves that i have ha ha ha ha

As why are you still allowing me to drag you in with every post

Lol reel them in

Didge wrote:Tag teaming and between them they cannot come up with any decent wit

No I'm not.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


No, just history, which shows you know nothing of the history of the catholic church, how it profited off slavery, its complicity to the holocaust, among many other things, showing your again poor understanding of history

Most people do not choose religion when raised and indoctrinated from birth.
It was spoon fed into the, and of that generation even more so

And yet it has many followers, so clearly they get something out of it.

I'm sure you've said before that some people choose to be religious, and that's how you justify your constant attacks on those with faith. Now you're changing your tune completely.

He changes his tune daily to suit himself and whomever he wants to be argumentative with.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


No, just history, which shows you know nothing of the history of the catholic church, how it profited off slavery, its complicity to the holocaust, among many other things, showing your again poor understanding of history

Most people do not choose religion when raised and indoctrinated from birth.
It was spoon fed into the, and of that generation even more so

And yet it has many followers, so clearly they get something out of it.

I'm sure you've said before that some people choose to be religious, and that's how you justify your constant attacks on those with faith. Now you're changing your tune completely.

Again you have no comprehension of what it was like for many Catholics who were brainwashed growing up and knew no better

That is why in Ireland for example parents would ship off their pregnant daughters to Magdalene Laundries.
Another Catholic cover up

HoratioTarr wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

And yet it has many followers, so clearly they get something out of it.

I'm sure you've said before that some people choose to be religious, and that's how you justify your constant attacks on those with faith. Now you're changing your tune completely.

He changes his tune daily to suit himself and whomever he wants to be argumentative with.

Ah bless, you seem upset petal 

It's very interesting. Now that Didge has said that people don't choose to have religious faith, or even choose which particular branch of religion to follow, I assume that he will put those religious belief on the same footing as gay people and stop trying to discriminate against them or spout hatred against them and their beliefs.

Raggamuffin wrote:It's very interesting. Now that Didge has said that people don't choose to have religious faith, or even choose which particular branch of religion to follow, I assume that he will put those religious belief on the same footing as gay people and stop trying to discriminate against them or spout hatred against them and their beliefs.

I never said all do not chose to have religious faith

Where did I say that?

In your own time

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

And yet it has many followers, so clearly they get something out of it.

I'm sure you've said before that some people choose to be religious, and that's how you justify your constant attacks on those with faith. Now you're changing your tune completely.

Again you have no comprehension of what it was like for many Catholics who were brainwashed growing up and knew no better

That is why in Ireland for example parents would ship off their pregnant daughters to Magdalene Laundries.
Another Catholic cover up

Another example of your reluctance to blame people for their own actions. It's becoming a habit with you.

Also my issue is with the faith itself and any bigoted religious followers

i can accept some know no different but certainly others do, especially born again idiots

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:It's very interesting. Now that Didge has said that people don't choose to have religious faith, or even choose which particular branch of religion to follow, I assume that he will put those religious belief on the same footing as gay people and stop trying to discriminate against them or spout hatred against them and their beliefs.

I never said all do not chose to have religious faith

Where did I say that?

In your own time

Most people do not choose religion when raised and indoctrinated from birth.

Perhaps you could define what you mean by "most".

Didge wrote:Also my issue is with the faith itself and any bigoted religious followers

i can accept some know no different but certainly others do, especially born again idiots

No, your issue is with the belief itself - a sign of your own bitterness.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Again you have no comprehension of what it was like for many Catholics who were brainwashed growing up and knew no better

That is why in Ireland for example parents would ship off their pregnant daughters to Magdalene Laundries.
Another Catholic cover up

Another example of your reluctance to blame people for their own actions. It's becoming a habit with you.

Your ignorance is staggering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_laundries_in_Ireland

So parents shipping their pregnant daughters off to the above is their fault now is it?

Even common sense would not even advocate such a thing

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Another example of your reluctance to blame people for their own actions. It's becoming a habit with you.

Your ignorance is staggering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_laundries_in_Ireland

So parents shipping their pregnant daughters off to the above is their fault now is it?

Even common sense would not even advocate such a thing

Yes, it is their own fault.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


I never said all do not chose to have religious faith

Where did I say that?

In your own time

Most people do not choose religion when raised and indoctrinated from birth.

Perhaps you could define what you mean by "most".

Why?

Many people are indoctrinated and blind to reason when religious

Case in point

Look at yourself

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:

Your ignorance is staggering

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_laundries_in_Ireland

So parents shipping their pregnant daughters off to the above is their fault now is it?

Even common sense would not even advocate such a thing

Yes, it is their own fault.

Which proves my point on your complete lack of empathy

So you back parents that sent children to be abuse and sometimes even death

Thanks for admitting this and blaming the young girls for this, many of whom were children

I am sure the forum is really just seen you in its truest light

ta

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:



Perhaps you could define what you mean by "most".

Why?

Many people are indoctrinated and blind to reason when religious

Case in point

Look at yourself

Are you saying I'm indoctrinated and that therefore my faith is not a choice?

In that case, you have no excuse to use it against me do you?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Yes, it is their own fault.

Which proves my point on your complete lack of empathy

So you back parents that sent children to be abuse and sometimes even death

Thanks for admitting this and blaming the young girls for this, many of whom were children

I am sure the forum is really just seen you in its truest light

ta

No, I don't back them, I'm saying it was their own fault. You're the one excusing them and blaming others for what they did.

And what the forum "sees" is really not of concern to me.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Which proves my point on your complete lack of empathy

So you back parents that sent children to be abuse and sometimes even death

Thanks for admitting this and blaming the young girls for this, many of whom were children

I am sure the forum is really just seen you in its truest light

ta

No, I don't back them, I'm saying it was their own fault. You're the one excusing them and blaming others for what they did.

Rags you screwed up big time here and now going to leave this for all to see the kind of person that you are after your comments

You really did 

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

No, I don't back them, I'm saying it was their own fault. You're the one excusing them and blaming others for what they did.

Rags you screwed up big time here and now going to leave this for all to see the kind of person that you are after your comments

You really did 

Huh? I said that it was the fault of parents who sent their daughters off to such places. You're the one excusing them.

What do you think "all" are going to say? Will they type furiously at me and say what a clever chap you are? I doubt it somehow.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


Rags you screwed up big time here and now going to leave this for all to see the kind of person that you are after your comments

You really did 

Huh? I said that it was the fault of parents who sent their daughters off to such places. You're the one excusing them.

What do you think "all" are going to say? Will they type furiously at me and say what a clever chap you are? I doubt it somehow.

They can all see for themselves and poor attempt at a backtrack now as well

Oh dear, best you keep

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

And yet it has many followers, so clearly they get something out of it.

I'm sure you've said before that some people choose to be religious, and that's how you justify your constant attacks on those with faith. Now you're changing your tune completely.

Again you have no comprehension of what it was like for many Catholics who were brainwashed growing up and knew no better

That is why in Ireland for example parents would ship off their pregnant daughters to Magdalene Laundries.
Another Catholic cover up

I hope you remember all that when you're slagging off the Muslims?

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Huh? I said that it was the fault of parents who sent their daughters off to such places. You're the one excusing them.

What do you think "all" are going to say? Will they type furiously at me and say what a clever chap you are? I doubt it somehow.

They can all see for themselves and poor attempt at a backtrack now as well

Oh dear, best you keep

So parents shipping their pregnant daughters off to the above is their fault now is it?

Yes, it is their own fault.

I think it's very clear what I said. It's very obvious that you misread it and now you're having to stick to what you thought in order to save face. I think everyone can see for themselves that's the case - if they're at all interested, which I doubt.

Why are you so reliant on what others think of you on here? Are you insecure?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Didge wrote:


Again you have no comprehension of what it was like for many Catholics who were brainwashed growing up and knew no better

That is why in Ireland for example parents would ship off their pregnant daughters to Magdalene Laundries.
Another Catholic cover up

I hope you remember all that when you're slagging off the Muslims?

Oh, that'll be different. He'll accuse their parents of child abuse, or say it's their own choice to be Muslims.