Socialism seems cool, until...

korban dallas wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:perhaps instead of that picture, you should all watch the first few mins of 2no blade of grass" (on you tube free)

which makes a better comparison between "the west" and the "third world"

oh and it IS a good social point...the over large , fast food chomping lad in te photo is ONLY of those grotesque dimensions because western society, predicated on greed , allows him to be so.

with very few exceptions, including prada willy, and PCOS in women most "fat inducing" metabolic disorders are the direct result of stuffing kids full of garbge (and especaily sugary garbage) at an early age

so i would be inclined to say that the image is a good metaphore NOT for "personal greed" but "western" (or better still societal) greed. perhaps it nay have been more "sensitive to disguise the persons face though....


as to te original topic...

I tend to prefer the concept of "social justice", rather than the highly charged socialist/social democracy argument

since both socialism and social democracy are by definition political ideologies and are therfor incompatible with any sort of decent liveable system...

even a highly capitalist society can, if it has a mind to, have a largely "socially just" framework. Indeed one would think that it would be in its best interest to do so, since happy slaves are good slaves....

which partly explains my political stance...


oh and if the premise in the O/P is TRUE then that explains why ben gets so out of shape when I level one of my regular blasts at the "lefty"

If the lefty of america is a "social democrat" then they are a totally different beast to the lefty of the UK and Europe...

Thank you victor

1. BMI is BS.

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"Muscle weighs more than fat." It's the adage of body-builders everywhere, and, though technically we should say muscle is denser than fat, its message bears repeating: Muscle mass can have a big impact on weight.
And yet, body mass index calculations don't distinguish between fat and muscle, nor do they take into account things like a person's frame size. They do, however, draw arbitrarily sharp divisions between what's considered normal, overweight and obese, even though individuals with a lot of lean muscle and little fat could fall into any of these categories. (On the flip side, those with a low BMI may have very little muscle and a high percentage of body fat, despite landing in the "healthy" range.)
Contrary to popular opinion, BMI is not an indicator of fitness. Its inventor, 19th century Belgian mathematician Adolphe Quetelet, intended his formula to be used to assess the status of general populations so the government could better allocate resources — not to calculate how much excess fat individuals have.
Nevertheless, many doctors and medical insurers continue to rely on BMI (deemed by NPR a "200-year-old numerical hack developed by a mathematician who was not even an expert in what little was known about the human body back then") as an authoritative marker of health. While perhaps useful as a broad strokes guide to determining where someone's body falls in relation to others' of similar height, it's important to remember that the picture BMI paints isn't nearly complete.

2. Fat people don't all have poor eating and exercise habits.

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The world is full of people with less-than-ideal eating habits, and, yes, some of them may be heavier than others. But it's important to remember that plenty of them aren't. Fatness does not automatically signify that a person is a compulsive overeater, nor exercise-averse.
It's entirely possible for a naturally thin person to be a couch potato and for a heavier person to run five miles a day and have a soft spot for kale, because all bodies look different (which ispretty cool, by the way), and because the relationship between health and weight is complex. Factors like age, genetics, underlying conditions and dieting history all contribute to that number we see on the scale, and you can never tell exactly what someone's eating and exercise habits are just by looking at them.
What's more, making an assumption about someone's diet — whether it's that a fat person eats poorly or that a skinny person doesn't eat at all — can be triggering for those who actually do have issues with food. That's not helping anyone.
One's relationship to food shouldn't reflect on who they are as a human being, and destroying someone's self-esteem in the name of "health" is never going to work (see No. 6).

3. Fat itself isn't unhealthy.

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If being fat were inherently bad for us, then weight loss should bring about innumerable health benefits. But that's not always the case: Multiple studies have seen little to no connectionbetween weight loss and decreased risk of mortality.
In fact, some studies have found that fat people are more likely to survive cardiac events and that being overweight can have a positive influence on longevity. What's more, losing significant weight is very difficult, and intense yo-yo dieting can cause plenty of health problems, too. The conversation about weight-related health risks also frequently ignores the problems that thin or underweight people may face as well.
Extremes on either end of the scale carry risks, and no one doubts that eating a balanced diet and getting regular exercise are good things. On its own, however, weight is not the issue. Too much junk food combined with a sedentary lifestyle is, and it's going to be regardless of one's weight.

4. Being fat doesn't signify a lack of willpower.

5. Size discrimination is real.

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According to the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance, sizeism is the fourth-most prevalent form of discrimination in the U.S. Yet only six cities (plus Michigan) have laws protecting against it.
While stereotypes exist regarding all different body types — short, skinny, tall and so forth — those reserved for larger body sizes are particularly vicious. Fatness is often associated with laziness, poor hygiene and stupidity, assumptions that can have serious consequences on both a personal and societal level.
In the working world, fat employees receive fewer promotions and may earn less than their thinner counterparts. In the classroom, fat students are less likely to be accepted to college, despite comparable academic performance, and often face lower expectations from teachers. Fat people even have to deal with negative biases in court (male jurors have been shown to be quicker to label fat women "repeat offenders" with "awareness of [their] crimes"), and at thedoctor's office, which can affect the quality of treatment they receive.
Perhaps the worst manifestation of size discrimination comes in the form of bullying: One study found that obese kids were 65% more likely to be bullied than their peers. 
In the words of NBC News health and diet editor Madelyn Fernstrom, "It's almost like obesity is the last of the acceptable groups to be teasing."

6. Fat shaming isn't helpful.

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Fat shaming, though cruel, is another form of bullying that often goes unchecked because people believe that it will spur others to lose weight, and, as the logic typically goes, become healthier. This is misguided first and foremost because there's nothing inherently wrong with being fat (see No. 3). And even if there were, fat shaming doesn't help people lose weight.
According to researchers, those who experience weight discrimination are more likely to become or remain obese. Even simply calling someone "fat" can have this effect: A recent long-term study out of UCLA found that young girls who were called fat by someone close to them at age 10 were more likely to be obese later in life. 

7. Fat people are not desperate for dates.

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Fat people lead fulfilling romantic lives like anyone else. Being a certain size in no way robs someone of their right to be loved and respected by a partner, end of story.

8. Not everyone wants to be skinny.

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In March, Mindy Kaling proudly [url=http://mic.com/article/edit/I%E2%80%99m always trying to lose fifteen pounds. But I never need to be skinny. I don%E2%80%99t want to be skinny. I%E2%80%99m constantly in a state of self-improvement, but I don%E2%80%99t beat myself up over it.%E2%80%9D]told Vogue[/url], "I'm always trying to lose 15 pounds. But I never need to be skinny. I don't want to be skinny. I'm constantly in a state of self-improvement, but I don't beat myself up over it."
She's not alone. Beauty is subjective, and while being skinny can be beautiful, being beautiful doesn't have to mean being skinny.
Part of the problem is that the media offers an exceedingly narrow slice of what people actually look like, and the bodies we see on screen [url=http://mic.com/article/Being skinny can be beautiful, but being beautiful doesn't have to mean being skinny.]directly influence[/url] our perception of bodies in the real world. But people come in all shapes and sizes, and no one should have to devote every spare moment trying to turning their body into something it's not meant to be in order to feel attractive. With more visible images of real, meaningful diversity, perhaps people will better recognize that there's more than one way to be beautiful.

9. The word fat is not an insult.

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Fat shaming clearly isn't helpful, but this isn't a call to ban the word itself from our vocabulary. Fat should be treated as an adjective like any other.
In practice, unfortunately, "fat" can sting. And it will continue to do so, as long as society insists on making fatness the butt of jokes and perpetuating the myth that it's an eminently undesirable state of being.
Don't let this happen. Part of challenging assumptions about being fat means no longer thinking of this word as a pejorative; fat shouldn't be an insult, because there's nothing wrong with being fat. 
Because we have yet to eliminate the stigma around the word entirely, people should, of course, refer to themselves using whatever term makes them comfortable. But one day, perhaps saying someone is "fat" will be no different than saying they have blond hair or brown eyes.

Tommy Monk wrote:Well... seeing as how nobody has been able to agree what socialism actually is... it is impossible to try to compare something that is so undefined with anything else. ..

Tommy Monk wrote:

I started off asking you your opinion after your initial 'profound' statement about there being big differences between socialism and social democracy... you posted up a wall of copy and paste of other peoples opinion in return... but now you are demanding my opinion...!?

Most amusing!!!