Socialism seems cool, until...

korban dallas wrote:

sassy wrote:No wonder it is never possible to have a decent discussion on here when you get no-nothing knob heads continuously derailing threads because of their own agenda.

As long as didges poo wants to be the fountain of all knowledge and arbiter of every fact opinion or indeed metaphor on almost every topic imaginable











i doubt it  

korban dallas wrote:

sassy wrote:No wonder it is never possible to have a decent discussion on here when you get no-nothing knob heads continuously derailing threads because of their own agenda.

As long as didges poo wants to be the fountain of all knowledge and arbiter of every fact opinion or indeed metaphor on almost every topic imaginable











i doubt it  

sassy wrote:

sassy wrote:

Ralph Nader was brilliant. 

If the party is that large, why don't we hear about it, is there a reason why they don't have a Presidential candidate?  Have you managed to get Senators and Congressmen elected?   Is the amount of money that has to be spent in the USA to get elected a problem?

Back to the actual topic.

aspca4ever wrote:

sassy wrote:
Back to the actual topic.

Well, we can certainly keep trying to do that --- but I won't hold my breath! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_(politician) 
That link has the number of successful politicians that have changed their party affiliations over to the Independent Party; but there's just as many that flip/flop back to their original party member ship once they were elected to office {or vice versa} --- it's become the fail safe for winning when your party isn't going to back you for re-election bids! 

Incumbents often get shafted by their party when they have issues with the way the Senators &/or Congressional human goes off party line for specific bills on the edge for needing votes!   

Raggamuffin wrote:

sassy wrote:


IT'S A VISUAL MANIFESTATION OF THE WORD FAT AND THAT IS ALL IS IT.  FUCKS SAKE!


Another bloody thread down the drain because the trolls jumped in.

Do I need to remind you yet again of what you said in response to it? Here goes:

I think KD, those two photos exhibit all that is wrong with the world.  Capitalist fat cats indulging their every want at the expense of the rest.

You clearly implied that fat people who overeat are doing so because they want to take food away from others. That is not the case.

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Do I need to remind you yet again of what you said in response to it? Here goes:



You clearly implied that fat people who overeat are doing so because they want to take food away from others. That is not the case.

do you know what a metaphor is and how they work

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Do I need to remind you yet again of what you said in response to it? Here goes:



You clearly implied that fat people who overeat are doing so because they want to take food away from others. That is not the case.

do you know what a metaphor is and how they work

korban dallas wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Do I need to remind you yet again of what you said in response to it? Here goes:



You clearly implied that fat people who overeat are doing so because they want to take food away from others. That is not the case.

do you know what a metaphor is and how they work

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
do you know what a metaphor is and how they work

   I see you getting 'SUCKED INTO' that quagmire of SOS that they employ when they can't stay on TOPIC!    
And now the 'Sticky Sweetness' has disappeared and the personality attacks have begun in earnest! 

Calling you a 'BIGOT'      Lordy - Lordy...that didn't take long either!

Didge wrote:This is a prime example of the fact people cannot admit when they are wrong or have done wrong.

I made a claim against Korben the other day and was wrong to do so

I admitted I was wrong and apologised

Where I have proved such a metaphor is bigotry against obese people we hear every excuse under the sun and abuse thrown at posters showing its wrong

That proves they know they are in the wrong.

Like I said gutless

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
do you know what a metaphor is and how they work

   I see you getting 'SUCKED INTO' that quagmire of SOS that they employ when they can't stay on TOPIC!    
And now the 'Sticky Sweetness' has disappeared and the personality attacks have begun in earnest! 

Calling you a 'BIGOT'      Lordy - Lordy...that didn't take long either!

korban dallas wrote:

Didge wrote:This is a prime example of the fact people cannot admit when they are wrong or have done wrong.

I made a claim against Korben the other day and was wrong to do so

I admitted I was wrong and apologised

Where I have proved such a metaphor is bigotry against obese people we hear every excuse under the sun and abuse thrown at posters showing its wrong

That proves they know they are in the wrong.

Like I said gutless

Honestly Dont be a sanctimonious idiot all your life have a holiday or at least a day off

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
do you know what a metaphor is and how they work

   I see you getting 'SUCKED INTO' that quagmire of SOS that they employ when they can't stay on TOPIC!    
And now the 'Sticky Sweetness' has disappeared and the personality attacks have begun in earnest! 

Calling you a 'BIGOT'      Lordy - Lordy...that didn't take long either!

Didge wrote:So if was to have a picture of a blown up dead person, next to a picture of a Muslim, as a metaphor for terrorism.

Are Korben, Sassy and aspca claiming that would not be sterotyping and bigotry?

sassy wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:

Well, we can certainly keep trying to do that --- but I won't hold my breath! 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_(politician) 
That link has the number of successful politicians that have changed their party affiliations over to the Independent Party; but there's just as many that flip/flop back to their original party member ship once they were elected to office {or vice versa} --- it's become the fail safe for winning when your party isn't going to back you for re-election bids! 

Incumbents often get shafted by their party when they have issues with the way the Senators &/or Congressional human goes off party line for specific bills on the edge for needing votes!   

Perhaps we should ban party politics altogether, let people who want to stand have a set amount of money they can use given to them so they don't need to make promises to donors, and make them stand for what THEY actually believe in.   Ain't never going to happen though is it!   Ah well.

On that note, actually on topic, I'm off for my appointment, BBL

korban dallas wrote:

Didge wrote:So if was to have a picture of a blown up dead person, next to a picture of a Muslim, as a metaphor for terrorism.

Are Korben, Sassy and aspca claiming that would not be sterotyping and bigotry?

how do you know from a picture he is Muslim ?

Didge wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
how do you know from a picture he is Muslim ?

Dress like a Muslim because it would be a sterotype of a Muslim


DOH

korban dallas wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:

   I see you getting 'SUCKED INTO' that quagmire of SOS that they employ when they can't stay on TOPIC!    
And now the 'Sticky Sweetness' has disappeared and the personality attacks have begun in earnest! 

Calling you a 'BIGOT'      Lordy - Lordy...that didn't take long either!

yea i know
i travel on this line regularly

pretty much just background noise nowadays  

korban dallas wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:
   I see you getting 'SUCKED INTO' that quagmire of SOS that they employ when they can't stay on TOPIC!    
And now the 'Sticky Sweetness' has disappeared and the personality attacks have begun in earnest! 

Calling you a 'BIGOT'      Lordy - Lordy...that didn't take long either!

yea i know
i travel on this line regularly

pretty much just background noise nowadays  

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
yea i know
i travel on this line regularly

pretty much just background noise nowadays  

Well, good luck with all that --- I'll just leave them both on IGNORE and enjoy the 'white noise' that that affords me. 

You are far better with the patience and fortitude to deal with all of that SOS {stuck on stupid} --- it's just such a waste for moving a conversation forward!

korban dallas wrote:obviously your not good at metaphor nothing to be ashamed of but surprising for one who claims to be so highly educated

not sure what raggs deal is perhaps she is just caught in the moment

but ether way dude your a clown  

aspca4ever wrote:

korban dallas wrote:
yea i know
i travel on this line regularly

pretty much just background noise nowadays  

Well, good luck with all that --- I'll just leave them both on IGNORE and enjoy the 'white noise' that that affords me. 

You are far better with the patience and fortitude to deal with all of that SOS {stuck on stupid} --- it's just such a waste for moving a conversation forward!

korban dallas wrote:

aspca4ever wrote:

Well, good luck with all that --- I'll just leave them both on IGNORE and enjoy the 'white noise' that that affords me. 

You are far better with the patience and fortitude to deal with all of that SOS {stuck on stupid} --- it's just such a waste for moving a conversation forward!

Thanks yea i am of to watch limitless wehen he gets all sanctimonious and starts reposting posts he made previously like a printer suck printing the same page  its time to bail and  pull the rip cord  

korban dallas wrote:obviously your not good at metaphor nothing to be ashamed of but surprising for one who claims to be so highly educated

not sure what raggs deal is perhaps she is just caught in the moment

but ether way dude your a clown  

Raggamuffin wrote:

korban dallas wrote:obviously your not good at metaphor nothing to be ashamed of but surprising for one who claims to be so highly educated

not sure what raggs deal is perhaps she is just caught in the moment

but ether way dude your a clown  

I started off by questioning the pics, but then I did disagree with Didge - something you missed I think.

Of course, the fat person might just be eating a takeway by coincidence and might not normally eat a lot of fattening things. I think that if a pic was posted of someone who was supposed to represent a Muslim, it wouldn't really matter if he/she was actually a Muslim or not.

a wealthy and powerful person, especially a business person or politician.

Smug, selfish and greedy the businessman/woman who exploits their position for their own personal gain at the cost of the businesses or community

a wealthy person from whom large political campaign contributions are expected.

any wealthy person, especially one who has become
an important, influential, or famous person.

an important, influential, or famous person.

a person who has become lazy or self-satisfied as the result of privilege or advantage.

Didge wrote:Indeed rags, but when it is stated after a picture of an obese child its certainly a bigoted stereotype of obese children

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:Indeed rags, but when it is stated after a picture of an obese child its certainly a bigoted stereotype of obese children

I take it to mean someone who takes advantage of their position to become rich at the expense of others, which wouldn't of course apply to the fat person in the picture. Others might have a different definition of course.

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I take it to mean someone who takes advantage of their position to become rich at the expense of others, which wouldn't of course apply to the fat person in the picture. Others might have a different definition of course.

But again using a picture of someone obese eating next to someone starving is a view of greed, selfishness etc

As I say its a very bigoted metaphor that demeans obese people

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:


But again using a picture of someone obese eating next to someone starving is a view of greed, selfishness etc

As I say its a very bigoted metaphor that demeans obese people

My point is that even if the person is fat because they overeat and are greedy, they're not doing so in order to take food off anyone else, so I don't think it was a good comparison.

Then again, it does depend on your own definition of "fat cat".

Didge wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

My point is that even if the person is fat because they overeat and are greedy, they're not doing so in order to take food off anyone else, so I don't think it was a good comparison.

Then again, it does depend on your own definition of "fat cat".

There is variance indeed rags, but again it is a poor stereotype of obese people, especially when there are genetic issues with some

I mean can you imagine the shit storm if you had a picture of a woman with black eyes next to a muscled man what the reaction would be based on a metaphor of strength?


Rightly everyone would go potty over such a poor metaphor

Raggamuffin wrote:

Didge wrote:



There is variance indeed rags, but again it is a poor stereotype of obese people, especially when there are genetic issues with some

I mean can you imagine the shit storm if you had a picture of a woman with black eyes next to a muscled man what the reaction would be based on a metaphor of strength?


Rightly everyone would go potty over such a poor metaphor

I didn't quite follow that last bit Didge.

Anyway, the pic of the fat man was clearly designed to imply that he was fat because he ate too much, and not because of any genetic issue. However, I still think it's not a good comparison because he's not overeating at the expense of others - not deliberately or negligently anyway. Of course some people might have a different definition of "fat cat", but it's clearly not a term which is designed to praise someone.

LordFoul posted >>> as to te original topic...

I tend to prefer the concept of "social justice", rather than the highly charged socialist/social democracy argument

since both socialism and social democracy are by definition political ideologies and are therfor incompatible with any sort of decent liveable system...

even a highly capitalist society can, if it has a mind to, have a largely "socially just" framework. Indeed one would think that it would be in its best interest to do so, since happy slaves are good slaves....

which partly explains my political stance...

oh and if the premise in the O/P is TRUE then that explains why ben gets so out of shape when I level one of my regular blasts at the "lefty"

If the lefty of america is a "social democrat" then they are a totally different beast to the lefty of the UK and Europe...

aspca4ever wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:"...there's a whole lot to be said about the big difference between socialism and social democracy..."

Care to tell us then...!?

Awww, TommyMonk; I doubt that you'd have to look long &/or hard to find this {let your fingers do the walking} but since I've got it flagged & tagged for reference >>>

Socialism vs Social Democracy — What’s The Difference?

• One is about collective ownership of the means of production;
  
• the other about organic social solidarity with private ownership of production.
  

• One is restrictive;
  
• the other libertarian.
  

• One is metaphysical (excessively abstract reasoning);
  
• the other empirical (demonstrable, verifiable reasoning).
  

• One is dogmatic;
  
• the other scientific.
  

• One is emotional;
  
• the other reflective.
  

• One is destructive;
  
• the other constructive.
  

• Both are in pursuit of the greatest possible welfare for all.
  

    – One aims to establish happiness for all;
    – the other to enable each to be happy in one’s own way.

• The first regards the State as a society “sui generis,” of a unique essence, the product of a right outside of and above all society, with special rights and able to exact special obediences;
  
• the second considers the State as an association like any other, generally managed no better and no more efficient than others.
  

• The first proclaims the sovereignty of the State;
  
• the second recognizes no sort of sovereign.
  

• One wishes all monopolies to be held by the State;
  
• the other wishes the abolition of all monopolies.
  

• One wishes the governed class to become the governing class;
  
• the other wishes the disappearance of classes.
  

• Both declare that the existing state of things cannot last.
  

    – The first considers revolutions as the indispensable agent of evolutions;
    – the second teaches that repression alone turns political evolutions into revolution.

• The first has faith in a cataclysm;
  
• the second knows that social progress will result from the free play of individual efforts.
  

• One wishes that there should be none but proletariats;
  
• the other wishes that there should be no more proletariats.
  

• The first wishes to take everything away from everybody;
  
• the second wishes to leave each in possession of its own.
  

• The one wishes to expropriate everybody;
  
• the other wishes everybody to be a proprietor.
  

• The first says: Do as the government wishes;
  
• the second says: Do as you wish yourself.
  

• The former threatens with despotism;
  
• the latter promises liberty.
  

• The former makes the citizen the subject of the State;
  
• the latter makes the State the employee of the citizen.
  

• One proclaims that labor pains will be necessary to the birth of a new world;
  
• the other declares that real progress will not cause suffering to any one.
  

• The first has confidence in social war;
  
• the other believes only in works of peace.
  

• One aspires to command, to regulate, to legislate;
  
• the other wishes to attain the minimum of command, of regulation, of legislation.
  

• One would be followed by the most atrocious of reactions;
  
• the other opens unlimited horizons to progress.
  

• The first will fail;
  
• the other will succeed.
  

• One desires equality; the other seeks equity.
  

    – The first by lowering heads that are too high;
    – the other by raising heads that are too low.

• One sees equality under a common yoke;
  
• the other will secure equity in complete liberty.
  

• One is intolerant;
  
• the other tolerant.
  

• One frightens;
  
• the other reassures.
  

• The first wishes to instruct everybody;
  
• the second wishes to enable everybody to instruct one’s self.
  

• The first wishes to support everybody;
  
• the second wishes to enable everybody to support one’s self.
  

• One says:
  

    – The land to the State
    – The mine to the State
    – The tool to the State
    – The product to the State

• The other says:
  

    – The land to the cultivator.
    – The mine to the miner.
    – The tool to the laborer.
    – The product to the producer.

• One is the infancy of Socialism;
  
• the other is its manhood.
  

• One is already the past;
  
• the other is the future.
  

• One will give way to the other…
  

Based upon the writing of ~ Ernest Lesigne – Liberty V, 10 (December 17, 1887), No. 114, p. 5.


https://spfaust.wordpress.com/2011/06/12/socialism-vs-social-democracy-whats-the-difference/ 

And should you not follow up and look at the entire decent article; this clipped section seems to add some clarity to the way that many Americans feel but we are limited to our voting options are down to the wire and we have only 2 Democratic vs Republican to chose from --- very few of us are still the hard wired DNC vs GOP candidates there are many of us Independents and that group is growing.

But here's what Coronare Modestus Faust had to say about this Socialism vs Social Democracy >>>

I am almost constantly defending myself against the accusation of being a “Socialist” — an insult in America — when what I am is far from it. But even so, what is wrong with one supporting a socialist perspective? Or a Libertarian perspective? Nothing. Neither is a perspective that I maintain, but they’re certainly valid for anyone else if this is indeed a free society of democratic values and expression.
And, if that is true, why are these other perspectives not proportionally represented in the United States government through our elected branches? And, now we’re back to where we started and where our political expression is truncated.

So here in America when someone says; 'well that's just a Lefty for you' or 'that's just a republican conservative for you' --- there's so many hot button issues that have so many of us deciding on our finite own moral compass and value system that there are fewer & fewer solidity standing fore square on one side or the other.
At least IMHO 

Tommy Monk wrote:"...there's a whole lot to be said about the big difference between socialism and social democracy..."
Care to tell us then...!? 

TommyMonk posted:

I was asking what YOUR understanding was and what YOU thought were the much to be said big differences... not a wall of copy and paste bullshit.. and was not asking because I had no idea of what either of them was...

aspca4ever wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:"...there's a whole lot to be said about the big difference between socialism and social democracy..."
Care to tell us then...!? 

And from that to this > > >

TommyMonk posted:

I was asking what YOUR understanding was and what YOU thought were the much to be said big differences... not a wall of copy and paste bullshit.. and was not asking because I had no idea of what either of them was...

You are aware {I hope} how things get lost in translation  
Your 2nd post {after 2 pages of some supportive information as well as adult conversation - sans the temper tantrums} was exactly what the rest of us WERE discussing! 

It's irksome - irritating and rather LAME method you do - to skip from A - Z and then complain about the "wall of copy and paste bullshit", if you can't do the reading and even glance at what the other ADULTS have presented for discussion! 

Granted, there's a whole lot of bilge to weed through but you're familiar with those obnoxious/off topic children --- skip those and hit the high spots!
You'll find it interesting --- OR NOT

Lord Foul wrote:perhaps instead of that picture, you should all watch the first few mins of 2no blade of grass" (on you tube free)

which makes a better comparison between "the west" and the "third world"

oh and it IS a good social point...the over large , fast food chomping lad in te photo is ONLY of those grotesque dimensions because western society, predicated on greed , allows him to be so.

with very few exceptions, including prada willy, and PCOS in women most "fat inducing" metabolic disorders are the direct result of stuffing kids full of garbge (and especaily sugary garbage) at an early age

so i would be inclined to say that the image is a good metaphore NOT for "personal greed" but "western" (or better still societal) greed. perhaps it nay have been more "sensitive to disguise the persons face though....


as to te original topic...

I tend to prefer the concept of "social justice", rather than the highly charged socialist/social democracy argument

since both socialism and social democracy are by definition political ideologies and are therfor incompatible with any sort of decent liveable system...

even a highly capitalist society can, if it has a mind to, have a largely "socially just" framework. Indeed one would think that it would be in its best interest to do so, since happy slaves are good slaves....

which partly explains my political stance...


oh and if the premise in the O/P is TRUE then that explains why ben gets so out of shape when I level one of my regular blasts at the "lefty"

If the lefty of america is a "social democrat" then they are a totally different beast to the lefty of the UK and Europe...

korban dallas wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:perhaps instead of that picture, you should all watch the first few mins of 2no blade of grass" (on you tube free)

which makes a better comparison between "the west" and the "third world"

oh and it IS a good social point...the over large , fast food chomping lad in te photo is ONLY of those grotesque dimensions because western society, predicated on greed , allows him to be so.

with very few exceptions, including prada willy, and PCOS in women most "fat inducing" metabolic disorders are the direct result of stuffing kids full of garbge (and especaily sugary garbage) at an early age

so i would be inclined to say that the image is a good metaphore NOT for "personal greed" but "western" (or better still societal) greed. perhaps it nay have been more "sensitive to disguise the persons face though....


as to te original topic...

I tend to prefer the concept of "social justice", rather than the highly charged socialist/social democracy argument

since both socialism and social democracy are by definition political ideologies and are therfor incompatible with any sort of decent liveable system...

even a highly capitalist society can, if it has a mind to, have a largely "socially just" framework. Indeed one would think that it would be in its best interest to do so, since happy slaves are good slaves....

which partly explains my political stance...


oh and if the premise in the O/P is TRUE then that explains why ben gets so out of shape when I level one of my regular blasts at the "lefty"

If the lefty of america is a "social democrat" then they are a totally different beast to the lefty of the UK and Europe...

Thank you victor