This is society: you are not free and you will never be

Author : by someone on Facebook

Millions of slaves living as slaves but thinking they are free simply because they are told they are.

Working for imaginary money that we are hoodwinked out of by the time we've even got it, buying junk items we are told we need, when in reality it's just to take away what we think we've been given.

Then when we are not buying enough said shit, we are convinced that the shit we bought yesterday is now out of fashion and needs replacing, clothes, decor, vehicle, gadgets etc. etc.

We therefore never have anything of substance, nobody hardly has any wealth, most of our investment is in mortgages that they'll pull away from under us at the first couple of missed payments. Precarious at all times, so unlikely to upset the apple cart.

The majority work full time, loads of hours, yet still live hand to mouth, have nothing to show for it and are actually in debt to the big financial institutions. They are paid on a wage slip with numbers printed on it, it was/is never the intention that they would actually see much, if any of this money for more than a few weeks at most. Again, a situation that is precarious at all times, so unlikely to upset the apple cart.

There is no other explanation, it is cleverly manipulated slavery, people with nothing told that they have never had it so good, but in reality wearing emperors new clothes and at 44.95% APR

======================

That's it for me. Society and government, in a nutshell.
You are not free and you never will be.

eddie wrote:Author : by someone on Facebook

Millions of slaves living as slaves but thinking they are free simply because they are told they are.

Working for imaginary money that we are hoodwinked out of by the time we've even got it, buying junk items we are told we need, when in reality it's just to take away what we think we've been given.

Then when we are not buying enough said shit, we are convinced that the shit we bought yesterday is now out of fashion and needs replacing, clothes, decor, vehicle, gadgets etc. etc.

We therefore never have anything of substance, nobody hardly has any wealth, most of our investment is in mortgages that they'll pull away from under us at the first couple of missed payments. Precarious at all times, so unlikely to upset the apple cart.

The majority work full time, loads of hours, yet still live hand to mouth, have nothing to show for it and are actually in debt to the big financial institutions. They are paid on a wage slip with numbers printed on it, it was/is never the intention that they would actually see much, if any of this money for more than a few weeks at most. Again, a situation that is precarious at all times, so unlikely to upset the apple cart.

There is no other explanation, it is cleverly manipulated slavery, people with nothing told that they have never had it so good, but in reality wearing emperors new clothes and at 44.95% APR

======================

That's it for me. Society and government, in a nutshell.
You are not free and you never will be.

The first bit of that post is right up my street eddie. Don't spend your money on things you don't need. It takes a long time to learn that.

Always save up so you're not stuck if you lose your job. I hope nobody bothers to tell me that some people don't earn enough to save. They do - they just spend too much on stuff they don't need.

Be the captain of your own ship and say no to those trinkets you think you need - admire them and walk on by.

Some people don't earn enough to save though.

Actually they don't, and that's not because they are wasting money buying stuff they don't need.

Syl wrote:Some people don't earn enough to save though.

Actually they don't, and that's not because they are wasting money buying stuff they don't need.

Rubbish. Anyone can save a bit, and there's always something they can cut down on.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Syl wrote:Some people don't earn enough to save though.

Actually they don't, and that's not because they are wasting money buying stuff they don't need.

Rubbish. Anyone can save a bit, and there's always something they can cut down on.

You are wrong. Some people barely manage to eat after the bills are paid. Do you think the majority of people who use food banks do it for fun?
I think you have to walk in someone else's shoes before you make daft generalisations.

Syl wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Rubbish. Anyone can save a bit, and there's always something they can cut down on.

You are wrong. Some people barely manage to eat after the bills are paid. Do you think the majority of people who use food banks do it for fun?
I think you have to walk in someone else's shoes before you make daft generalisations.

No I don't. I doubt that people in full time work need to use food banks very much.

What a load of putrid garbage, that fundamentally by equating slavery insults those who have endured and suffered under slavery. Where people by choice actively chose a system and a way of life, is not something that is being forced onto you against your will, because you also simply have the option not to live your life that way.

It then lays a foundation to then claim and ratify a subjective position, that of substance something of worth. Which by placing a parameter of worth, renders the whole point moot and absurd. As every placed by any individual, will be subjective on how it values to then. It shows who ever wrote this piece of tripe that it fails to understand humans psychologically.

The most important values come based off the need to survive and exist, food, shelter, warmth, security, which all have a imaginary high value placed by many. What the article is bemoaning is what values we place on pleasures of things we do not differing from each otheneed. But the need to want to obtain anything, that we do not have and want to acquire fairly, produces goals and goals then have meaning, as they are motivational, even if again based subjectively on each person.

Anyone person can change away from a Capitalist  society, but what this idiotic load of babble fails to understand even further that once people have their greatest fears emotively secured by a organised system.  This then form of civilized society free's up people form where they once struggle years ago just to place food daily on their table and to have a roof over their. Which when collective system that benefits many works. That within that society, that now has more people not being required to perform these once basic survival skills. Are they inspired to take up far more interesting pursuits and goals. This is one of the core reasons why we have technologically advance rapidly/ Why are understanding or science has vastly expanded. Why we have many artists, form anything to writing, painting and Music etc So when a system allows for that many more people to pursue roles that seek to advance skills, abilities, knowledge etc. It then offers so much more to life by opening up so many new paths for people to chose which direction they wish to take the path of their journey of life.

How on earth where so many people have been inspired to pursue what to them, makes them happy, is not being a slave, but fundamentally free

Have people never heard the term "wage slave"?

You mean another subjective point of view Rags?

You are by such classification a slave by the need to survive, by eating.

To choose not to eat means you would die and your life would be meaningless, of which you could still choose to do so. Its trying to equate a necessity to slavery as in the slave trade, which was not a necessity and where people did not have a choice.

I think the concept of a wage slave is someone who is trapped by their job even if they hate it because they can't afford to just give it up.

I've always liked the lyrics to Wham Rap:

Do you enjoy what you do? If not, just stop ...

Of course I don't approve of people going on the dole instead, which is why it's good to save up and not spend your money on the trappings of life, then if you really hate your job, you're not going to starve if you walk out ...

Syl wrote:Some people don't earn enough to save though.

Actually they don't, and that's not because they are wasting money buying stuff they don't need.

I should think the majority of people are in debt these days.   I've been watching that documentary about the families on benefits who are being given their whole year's worth of money in one go.   It'll be interesting to see how they fare but I'm not holding out much hope.   Not because I don't think their hearts are in the right place but because their expectations are skewed and not rooted in reality.

Rags@People though a system have been freed up form where they would have instead struggled individually or as a family. That lifestyle had limited choice, where they one we have offers boundless opportunity. So I get your point Rags on those who now they have been free up to pursue a multitude of options in life and yet are ob the dole, some through choice and others from a multitude of reasons



@Seriously Eddie, I cannot believe you would think you are not free to choose, because I like to think the choose you made like getting married and starting a family. Was not being a slave, but being free to decide the paths you choose in life


Lates

Who's to blame for these unsavory truths? Corporate managers who can't be happy with earning a 10 or 20 percent profit on the things they make and sell and must have a 40 to 70 percent profit:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/apples-iphone-the-most-profitable-product-in-history-10009741.html

What does Apple do with its profits?

Good news for Apple. The company has $203 billion in cash on its balance sheet, becoming the first corporation ever to cross the $200 billion mark.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/22/investing/apple-stock-cash-earnings/

Without that sort of radical upward redistribution of wealth, people could lead much better lives, even the Pacific Rim (and increasingly African) wage slaves who make the trinkets. Imagine if Apple only "needed" $100 billion on its balance sheet, and the rest was paid down to Apple employees.

Apple has about 100,000 employees. Just evenly splitting that $100 billion among them -- after all, they are a big part of the reason the company has that much cash on hand in the first place -- leaves Apple with the other $100 billion on hand while making each of its employees a millionaire.

And sure, a lot of them would retire if they got that kind of bonus in one big lump sum. But do you think Apple would have any problem whatsoever hiring hungry young talent to keep the company innovative after the world saw the rash of headlines about every Apple employee becoming a millionaire?

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:Some people don't earn enough to save though.

Actually they don't, and that's not because they are wasting money buying stuff they don't need.

I should think the majority of people are in debt these days.   I've been watching that documentary about the families on benefits who are being given their whole year's worth of money in one go.   It'll be interesting to see how they fare but I'm not holding out much hope.   Not because I don't think their hearts are in the right place but because their expectations are skewed and not rooted in reality.

I haven't seen it but I read about it. One man has bought an array of animals and insects hoping to start a mini zoo or something.....good luck to him.

Re people in debt....I doubt anyone would apply for a payday loan if they were not desperate.

I also read this week of the growing number of people who work but are homeless....living in railway carriages or on the streets, washing and changing in public toilets before they start their days work.
I don't think the majority of us can imagine how soul destroying that must be.

we are not "wage slaves"

we are whores on the streets of life...

and sell our skills (and in some cases bodies AND souls) to the highest bidder..

Syl... a one bed flat in my area in outskirts of london costs £900-1000 a month to rent now!!!


Mass immigration pushes up the costs of living/housing costs while holding down wages!!!


How many more times do I have to tell people!!!???

Tommy Monk wrote:Syl... a one bed flat in my area in outskirts of london costs £900-1000 a month to rent now!!!


Mass immigration pushes up the costs of living/housing costs while holding down wages!!!


How many more times do I have to tell people!!!???

I don’t understand your point?

A one bedroom flat costs the same as one bedroom flat in many large cities (like Sydney)  
So this imaginary Mass migration (no you do not have it, that is just a FACT)  has caused rent to be the same as the international expectation of rental cost

http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/with-1-bedroom-in-redfern%2c+nsw+2016%3b/list-1


You wonder why the world thinks the UK is full of Whinging pathetic losers you only have to look at you post tommy.

"OH no it's the end of the world, London is going to Collapse it has the 'same cost as most others' how will it ever cope dealing with the 'same as everyone else' We're Doomed"

Tommy Monk wrote:Syl... a one bed flat in my area in outskirts of london costs £900-1000 a month to rent now!!!


Mass immigration pushes up the costs of living/housing costs while holding down wages!!!


How many more times do I have to tell people!!!???

That price is about the same as where I'm from, so I'm not impressed. I imagine you live in a lily-white upper-middle-class area where people think safety means living around lots of white people. And, as I've pointed out before, it's a bad reflection on your country when you can't rise to meet the demand of the market and instead sit crying and pissing your pants ...

Wave slaves aren't necessarily badly paid. The point is that they have to keep doing what they do in order to maintain their lifestyle.

Ben_Reilly wrote:Who's to blame for these unsavory truths? Corporate managers who can't be happy with earning a 10 or 20 percent profit on the things they make and sell and must have a 40 to 70 percent profit:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/apples-iphone-the-most-profitable-product-in-history-10009741.html

What does Apple do with its profits?

Good news for Apple. The company has $203 billion in cash on its balance sheet, becoming the first corporation ever to cross the $200 billion mark.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/22/investing/apple-stock-cash-earnings/

Without that sort of radical upward redistribution of wealth, people could lead much better lives, even the Pacific Rim (and increasingly African) wage slaves who make the trinkets. Imagine if Apple only "needed" $100 billion on its balance sheet, and the rest was paid down to Apple employees.

Apple has about 100,000 employees. Just evenly splitting that $100 billion among them -- after all, they are a big part of the reason the company has that much cash on hand in the first place -- leaves Apple with the other $100 billion on hand while making each of its employees a millionaire.

And sure, a lot of them would retire if they got that kind of bonus in one big lump sum. But do you think Apple would have any problem whatsoever hiring hungry young talent to keep the company innovative after the world saw the rash of headlines about every Apple employee becoming a millionaire?

Apple sell products to people that they think they need but they don't, so those who don't work for Apple become wage slaves elsewhere because they need to keep updating their phone or whatever.

Anyway, not everyone can work for Apple so your scenario would create inequality - that thing you don't like. Would they give each employee an equal share, regardless of how long they'd been there or how talented they were? Getting a job at Apple would become a kind of lottery with people moaning that it wasn't fair if they couldn't get a job there.

A lot of companies do operate bonus or share schemes, and I think that does make employees loyal to them - not because they're going to get rich but because it makes them feel valued.

Good post.
Some people do struggle to manage on their income, utility bills alone are a killer to some which we all pay.
If the lowest income people even manage to save a 'bit' that 'bit' will be that tiny it will take forever to grow and lack incentive to carry on.

We are manipulated, told, encouraged by politicians on right and wrong yet those thieving conniving bast**** line their own pockets at every turn.

Over the years my wife has been terribly wasteful, so were our two kids but now they have all improved, might be an age thing, been there done that so to speak.
The more you get the more you are likely to squander for the want of a better word.

My best gran was by no means poor, needy but she was a really organised saver, her parents had instilled it into her.
I am like my gran, my wife and kids are like her mother, Viv Nicholson type.

I have been through the flashy cars must have bit, got over it and now drive a Ford, our kids are going through the flashy cars now, I can have nice things you will in most cases.

We are undoubtedly slaves with a bit of dosh on a merry go round of big money government conniving.

While our seedy untrustworthy hand in the till politicians still breathe nowt will change.

Giving our wealth away to every Tom, Dick, and Abdul MUST STOP at home and abroad, all emphasis MUST be OUR OWN people.

For those able, get into a tax avoidance scheme, ensure ya money is working for you, look after number one, ya know it makes sense..

Going astray now..

Stormee wrote:Good post.
Some people do struggle to manage on their income, utility bills alone are a killer to some which we all pay.
If the lowest income people even manage to save a 'bit' that 'bit' will be that tiny it will take forever to grow and lack incentive to carry on.

We are manipulated, told, encouraged by politicians on right and wrong yet those thieving conniving bast**** line their own pockets at every turn.

Over the years my wife has been terribly wasteful, so were our two kids but now they have all improved, might be an age thing, been there done that so to speak.
The more you get the more you are likely to squander for the want of a better word.

My best gran was by no means poor, needy but she was a really organised saver, her parents had instilled it into her.
I am like my gran, my wife and kids are like her mother, Viv Nicholson type.

I have been through the flashy cars must have bit, got over it and now drive a Ford, our kids are going through the flashy cars now, I can have nice things you will in most cases.

We are undoubtedly slaves with a bit of dosh on a merry go round of big money government conniving.

While our seedy untrustworthy hand in the till politicians still breathe nowt will change.

Giving our wealth away to every Tom, Dick, and Abdul MUST STOP at home and abroad, all emphasis MUST be OUR OWN people.

For those able, get into a tax avoidance scheme, ensure ya money is working for you, look after number one, ya know it makes sense..

Going astray now..

People on this forum tend to talk about extremes. They talk about rich people and poor people a lot, but there's a huge number of people in between. They earn enough to live perfectly well, and they're the ones who could save rather than spend their money on new gadgets just because they can. You're right - the more people earn, the more they squander.

Look at celebrities who earn loads of money. They go out and buy a big house. There might be just them, or there might be two or three people living in that house, so why do they need 6 bedrooms? They do it because they can and because they think they should benefit from the money they made. Then they spend a ton of money on stuff to fill the house up so it doesn't look bare.

I'm not saying that nobody should ever spend money on luxuries obviously  - a lot of businesses depend on people spending their money that way.

I understand your comments Miss Ragga.
I had the poorest membuz of society in mind.

I waste a 'bit', I suppose I could even cut that down but when you are right at the bottom of the income scale the chances of saving is remote IMO, the aspirations of them is to obtain nice things which they see every day, tiz human nature.

Another side to the OP is, is anyone 'really' poor on our island?

I see beggars in shop doorways everyday, you know I get around quite a lot, they are everywhere.
Are these beggars out there due to misfortune or of their own making? I feel sorry for some I see and not others, cannot really say why.
It grieves me that on our island we have these poor people at all.

Stormee wrote:I understand your comments Miss Ragga.
I had the poorest membuz of society in mind.

I waste a 'bit', I suppose I could even cut that down but when you are right at the bottom of the income scale the chances of saving is remote IMO, the aspirations of them is to obtain nice things which they see every day, tiz human nature.

Another side to the OP is, is anyone 'really' poor on our island?

I see beggars in shop doorways everyday, you know I get around quite a lot, they are everywhere.
Are these beggars out there due to misfortune or of their own making? I feel sorry for some I see and not others, cannot really say why.
It grieves me that on our island we have these poor people at all.

Well there you are - as soon as people do earn some money, they want to buy nice things. Of course that's natural, but it's not as important as saving that money for a rainy day instead.

I don't know if anyone is really poor in the UK. There are heaps of benefits people can get, so I don't see why anyone should be homeless for any length of time, unless they don't ask for help, or they prefer it for some reason.

I am not conversant with our benefit system, I only glean bits from forums.
When ya got it ya can save if you want to, if ya ain't got it ya can't.

I am a good saver like my gran.

Have ya noticed as ya get older ya tend to want/need less of material things?

Stormee wrote:I am not conversant with our benefit system, I only glean bits from forums.
When ya got it ya can save if you want to, if ya ain't got it ya can't.

I am a good saver like my gran.

Have ya noticed as ya get older ya tend to want/need less of material things?

Yes. I think people suddenly realise that they have all this stuff which they don't need. Some people want to downsize, so they need to own less stuff.

veya_victaous wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Syl... a one bed flat in my area in outskirts of london costs £900-1000 a month to rent now!!!


Mass immigration pushes up the costs of living/housing costs while holding down wages!!!


How many more times do I have to tell people!!!???

I don’t understand your point?

A one bedroom flat costs the same as one bedroom flat in many large cities (like Sydney)  
So this imaginary Mass migration (no you do not have it, that is just a FACT)  has caused rent to be the same as the international expectation of rental cost

http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/with-1-bedroom-in-redfern%2c+nsw+2016%3b/list-1


You wonder why the world thinks the UK is full of Whinging pathetic losers you only have to look at you post tommy.

"OH no it's the end of the world, London is going to Collapse it has the 'same cost as most others' how will it ever cope dealing with the 'same as everyone else' We're Doomed"

You twat!!!


The price is for a cheap flat on the outskirts of london!!!


Go further in and that will double and treble very quickly!!!


Want to live in the centre!?

Then the sky is the limit on prices!!!


The point is that too many people have been coming for far too long and this has pushed up costs and held down wages!!!


So lowering all of our standards of living!!!


Mass immigration is a massive blow to the smooth running of our economy... people are at breaking point!!!

How many people are in debt because they over-reached themselves in the housing market? I don't know how this market can be sustained. A stock market crash is predicted for this year, and that might have an effect on the housing market, although there's no sign of it slowing down at the moment.

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/635232/Stock-market-crash-could-burst-property-bubble

Funny how people who don't live here know it all!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:Who's to blame for these unsavory truths? Corporate managers who can't be happy with earning a 10 or 20 percent profit on the things they make and sell and must have a 40 to 70 percent profit:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/analysis-and-features/apples-iphone-the-most-profitable-product-in-history-10009741.html

What does Apple do with its profits?

Good news for Apple. The company has $203 billion in cash on its balance sheet, becoming the first corporation ever to cross the $200 billion mark.

http://money.cnn.com/2015/07/22/investing/apple-stock-cash-earnings/

Without that sort of radical upward redistribution of wealth, people could lead much better lives, even the Pacific Rim (and increasingly African) wage slaves who make the trinkets. Imagine if Apple only "needed" $100 billion on its balance sheet, and the rest was paid down to Apple employees.

Apple has about 100,000 employees. Just evenly splitting that $100 billion among them -- after all, they are a big part of the reason the company has that much cash on hand in the first place -- leaves Apple with the other $100 billion on hand while making each of its employees a millionaire.

And sure, a lot of them would retire if they got that kind of bonus in one big lump sum. But do you think Apple would have any problem whatsoever hiring hungry young talent to keep the company innovative after the world saw the rash of headlines about every Apple employee becoming a millionaire?

Apple sell products to people that they think they need but they don't, so those who don't work for Apple become wage slaves elsewhere because they need to keep updating their phone or whatever.  

Anyway, not everyone can work for Apple so your scenario would create inequality - that thing you don't like. Would they give each employee an equal share, regardless of how long they'd been there or how talented they were? Getting a job at Apple would become a kind of lottery with people moaning that it wasn't fair if they couldn't get a job there.

A lot of companies do operate bonus or share schemes, and I think that does make employees loyal to them - not because they're going to get rich but because it makes them feel valued.

* I'm happy that you have no need for a smartphone, but I assure you that many people do need them. If I told my editor I wasn't going to be connected to Twitter and Facebook, carrying a combination still and video camera, and able to file breaking news stories from the road at all times, I'd be shown the door.

* Apple is just one corporation that does things like this. Many are hoarding cash, doing essentially nothing with it.

* My example is just an example. You could have a tiered bonus system that would reward more valuable and more tenured employees proportionately.

* People can moan all they want, companies still have the power to hire the most qualified candidates.

HoratioTarr wrote:

Syl wrote:Some people don't earn enough to save though.

Actually they don't, and that's not because they are wasting money buying stuff they don't need.

I should think the majority of people are in debt these days.   I've been watching that documentary about the families on benefits who are being given their whole year's worth of money in one go.   It'll be interesting to see how they fare but I'm not holding out much hope.   Not because I don't think their hearts are in the right place but because their expectations are skewed and not rooted in reality.

Hi Horatio
What programme is that and when is it on? Please

Tommy Monk wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

Tommy Monk wrote:Syl... a one bed flat in my area in outskirts of london costs £900-1000 a month to rent now!!!


Mass immigration pushes up the costs of living/housing costs while holding down wages!!!


How many more times do I have to tell people!!!???

I don’t understand your point?

A one bedroom flat costs the same as one bedroom flat in many large cities (like Sydney)  
So this imaginary Mass migration (no you do not have it, that is just a FACT)  has caused rent to be the same as the international expectation of rental cost

http://www.realestate.com.au/rent/with-1-bedroom-in-redfern%2c+nsw+2016%3b/list-1


You wonder why the world thinks the UK is full of Whinging pathetic losers you only have to look at you post tommy.

"OH no it's the end of the world, London is going to Collapse it has the 'same cost as most others' how will it ever cope dealing with the 'same as everyone else' We're Doomed"

You twat!!!


The price is for a cheap flat on the outskirts of london!!!


Go further in and that will double and treble very quickly!!!


Want to live in the centre!?

Then the sky is the limit on prices!!!


The point is that too many people have been coming for far too long and this has pushed up costs and held down wages!!!


So lowering all of our standards of living!!!


Mass immigration is a massive blow to the smooth running of our economy... people are at breaking point!!!

Redfern is the edge of Sydney 

Listen you lot, stop bewailing the state of the working man. Think about those poor politicians who have to maintain a house in the country, and a flat/house in the city for which they receive government money, the chauffer driven car, the expenses payout reimbursed by government for which they often fiddle. The taxes fiddle and a large paypacket. Those poor Polly Ticians!

10 years ago it cost about £500 a month to rent a one bed flat here in my local area, which is on the far outer edge of london.


And about 750 to rent a 3 bed house.


My average weekly wage was around £700 A WEEK!!!


Now, the same flat is around £1000 a month and the same 3 bed house is about £1500 a month.


My wage has not doubled... my wages are still around £700 a week (before tax)...


This means that I am now paying 2 weeks wages to rent the same 1 bed flat that I used to only pay 1 weeks wages to rent!!!


Immigration has caused the rise in costs and has also held down wage increases.


I am much worse off as a result!!!


Am I a Racist for complaining about this?

Tommy Monk wrote:10 years ago it cost about £500 a month to rent a one bed flat here in my local area, which is on the far outer edge of london.


And about 750 to rent a 3 bed house.


My average weekly wage was around £700 A WEEK!!!


Now, the same flat is around £1000 a month and the same 3 bed house is about £1500 a month.


My wage has not doubled... my wages are still around £700 a week (before tax)...


This means that I am now paying 2 weeks wages to rent the same 1 bed flat that I used to only pay 1 weeks wages to rent!!!


Immigration has caused the rise in costs and has also held down wage increases.


I am much worse off as a result!!!


Am I a Racist for complaining about this?

10 years ago it cost about $150 a week now cost about $550
 
Not racist, unrealistic as to the current value of things in a world economy.
 
Again you have one of the lowest levels of immigration in the English Speaking world, you may have issues but Immigration is not it, as you hardly have immigration, what you have a lot of is lazy greedy politicans and hangers on

150 to 550...!?


And how much did your wages rise in comparison!?



The numbers of immigrants here and the negative effects are clearly visible and undeniable.

Tommy Monk wrote:150 to 550...!?


And how much did your wages rise in comparison!?



The numbers of immigrants here and the negative effects are clearly visible and undeniable.

about 60% no where near what rent has gone up.

And Also keep in mind we have Nationally increasd our output, Everyone does more work than ever before, You lot are doing less work than ever so you cant expect to maintain the same standard of living if you are not going to do the same amount of work other people are.

and we have almost triple the immigration you have, it could just as easily be said that there are too many Brits and that is the cause of the issue.
Really it is politicans and the morons that vote for them

No... we are doing more work for less... you have an immigration policy that admits those who are needed and who are willing to work and contribute... our immigration policy is open door to 500 million regardless of skills or need and easy access to too many others from everywhere else in the world!!!



Huge  negative impacts on economy!!!!


Huge rises in costs of living while holding down wages... businesses becoming less competitive as their own costs rise through increased eu bureaucracy... huge negative impactor on public services and increased costs and borrowing... plus huge rises in interest payments on debt sacking even more out of system... huge losses to economy as foreign workers send money out of the country... plus the benefits they suck out of public spending and send abroad too! !!



What is so wrong with you that although you appear to be half intelligent... you refuse to acknowledge and acceot the blatanrly obvious cause of so many problems here!!!???

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Apple sell products to people that they think they need but they don't, so those who don't work for Apple become wage slaves elsewhere because they need to keep updating their phone or whatever.  

Anyway, not everyone can work for Apple so your scenario would create inequality - that thing you don't like. Would they give each employee an equal share, regardless of how long they'd been there or how talented they were? Getting a job at Apple would become a kind of lottery with people moaning that it wasn't fair if they couldn't get a job there.

A lot of companies do operate bonus or share schemes, and I think that does make employees loyal to them - not because they're going to get rich but because it makes them feel valued.

* I'm happy that you have no need for a smartphone, but I assure you that many people do need them. If I told my editor I wasn't going to be connected to Twitter and Facebook, carrying a combination still and video camera, and able to file breaking news stories from the road at all times, I'd be shown the door.

* Apple is just one corporation that does things like this. Many are hoarding cash, doing essentially nothing with it.

* My example is just an example. You could have a tiered bonus system that would reward more valuable and more tenured employees proportionately.

* People can moan all they want, companies still have the power to hire the most qualified candidates.

Please don't tell me that the leftie definition of poverty now includes the lack of a smartphone.

Tommy Monk wrote:No... we are doing more work for less... you have an immigration policy that admits those who are needed and who are willing to work and contribute... our immigration policy is open door to 500 million regardless of skills or need and easy access to too many others from everywhere else in the world!!!



Huge  negative impacts on economy!!!!


Huge rises in costs of living while holding down wages... businesses becoming less competitive as their own costs rise through increased eu bureaucracy... huge negative impactor on public services and increased costs and borrowing... plus huge rises in interest payments on debt sacking even more out of system... huge losses to economy as foreign workers send money out of the country... plus the benefits they suck out of public spending and send abroad too! !!



What is so wrong with you that although you appear to be half intelligent... you refuse to acknowledge and acceot the blatanrly obvious cause of so many problems here!!!???

Because NO real statics Support the BULLSHIT you post
Simple as that, Back what you say with some facts not Bullshit fear monger look how scary it is article, some numbers from internationally reputable sources

And NOW where the fuck to do you get the idea we have control of Immigration
we take 3 people for every one you take, So where is the limit? 3 times Higher than What you take!!! You literally have a negative point there that proves MY POINT, the UK has no issue that is not the same or greater elsewhere, and the citizens just deal with it elsewhere!
WE have VERY LIMITED control over illegal migration that makes up 6% of our total Migration!!!



Again UK just has the same problems as everyone fucking else you are not a special snowflake
The only signifianct difference is the Vast amount of money you waste on the house of Lords!

eddie wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I should think the majority of people are in debt these days.   I've been watching that documentary about the families on benefits who are being given their whole year's worth of money in one go.   It'll be interesting to see how they fare but I'm not holding out much hope.   Not because I don't think their hearts are in the right place but because their expectations are skewed and not rooted in reality.

Hi Horatio
What programme is that and when is it on? Please

It's on a Tuesday night on Channel 5, The Great British Benefits Handout.

So far, two families have been given their full year's benefits.   One guy is wanting to set up his own Reptile and Mammal Parties and has plans to keep the animals in the back garden of his three bedroom semi.  He's talking about buying monkeys and meerkats with no thought about how this might impact on the neighbours, vet's fees, etc.  Personally, I think it's cruel to keep animals like that in small cages in your back garden.   Oh, and he's purchased a an inflatable bouncy castle too.   As though there aren't millions of bouncy castles for hire.  

The other family have plans to set up a second hand furniture business but gave their 21 year old son £600 of that precious money  to purchase a playstation which he then plonked himself upstairs with when he might have been out looking for work.   When they go to view a potential retail property to set up shop, their faces drop at the rental and they've not even considered the rates, insurance and bills in that price!   

It's kind of fascinating and sad, and you really want them to do well.   But you can see where it's going.

I've just told you the rises in costs of living and no rises in wages...


Do you really think that the arrival of half a million people every year has no bearing on this!?

HoratioTarr wrote:

eddie wrote:

HoratioTarr wrote:

I should think the majority of people are in debt these days.   I've been watching that documentary about the families on benefits who are being given their whole year's worth of money in one go.   It'll be interesting to see how they fare but I'm not holding out much hope.   Not because I don't think their hearts are in the right place but because their expectations are skewed and not rooted in reality.

Hi Horatio
What programme is that and when is it on? Please

It's on a Tuesday night on Channel 5, The Great British Benefits Handout.

So far, two families have been given their full year's benefits.   One guy is wanting to set up his own Reptile and Mammal Parties and has plans to keep the animals in the back garden of his three bedroom semi.  He's talking about buying monkeys and meerkats with no thought about how this might impact on the neighbours, vet's fees, etc.  Personally, I think it's cruel to keep animals like that in small cages in your back garden.   Oh, and he's purchased a an inflatable bouncy castle too.   As though there aren't millions of bouncy castles for hire.  

The other family have plans to set up a second hand furniture business but gave their 21 year old son £600 of that precious money  to purchase a playstation which he then plonked himself upstairs with when he might have been out looking for work.   When they go to view a potential retail property to set up shop, their faces drop at the rental and they've not even considered the rates, insurance and bills in that price!   

It's kind of fascinating and sad, and you really want them to do well.   But you can see where it's going.

Thanks Horatio
It sounds right up my street actually and the sort of thing that will have me shouting at the TV lol

Tommy Monk wrote:I've just told you the rises in costs of living and no rises in wages...


Do you really think that the arrival of half a million people every year has no bearing on this!?

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/australias-population-will-hit-24-million-tomorrow-17-years-ahead-of-schedule-2016-2

We add half a million a year too

stop crying poor

The population growth is fast, but so is the rest of the world’s

In 1968, Australia’s population reached 12 million, so it has taken 48 years since to double. Interestingly, in 1970, the global population was exactly half what it currently is at 7.3 billion and so the world has taken only slightly less time, 46 years, to double.
More than one third of Australians have seen both Australia and the world double in population size in their lifetime!

We are talking about the associated cause of huge rise in costs of living and suppression of wages... plus the huge strain on public services... all avoidable if we controlled and limited immigration numbers to a sensible level!!!

Also... Australia is a huge expanse of land with only 20 million people... one farm there is the size of the whole of the southeast of England!!!

Australia wants and needs immigration!!!

And has total control over their borders and a points based immigration system to ensure that only those wanted and needed are allowed in!!!


UK is a tiny island... over 3 times the population of Australia... we have an open door to half a billion people from Europe and a pretty relaxed system for the rest of the world meaning all sorts of people are arriving who we doing want or need!!!

You do know you can't live in a huge percentage of Australia because of weather conditions Tommy, or had that passed you by.

This might help:

Australia is roughly 7,686,850 km2 in size making it the 6th largest country in terms of size worldwide. Reports say approximately 768,685 km2 of land is actually habitable in Australia. This means Australia’s habitable land takes up approximately 10% of the actual land mass, with 90% being ‘termed’ uninhabitable.


In comparison The Unites States is made up of 40% habitable land, South Korea 30% and The United Kingdom 70%.

Presently 63.9% or 14.5 million Australians call the eight major capital cities home.

This land makes up 38,272.5 km2. These 8 capital cities have a combined population density of 378 people per km2.


In comparison England has a density of 255 per km2

We are still too small to be taking in the amount of people that we do.


Perhaps money should be spent on making some of these lands habitable? Then there wouldn't be so much wasted land in these huge big countries.

Sassquatch... totally ignoring the points again...!