Donald Trump Ban Muslims

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I want to know how that would work, practically.

A questionnaire? What?

I just told you based off extreme views and a ever changing questionaire would work fine and more importantly any history of their views and activities before they came to come to this vetting process.
Any false papers, denied.
Any later lies formulated to gain entry, they are then deported.
Many ways to do this, but it would mean denying any Wahhabists, Muslim brotherhood etc, islamist groups that seek islamic domination.
Are you claiming their beliefs are going to benefit the society?
Or be at odds with society?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Would you trust this man?  

What about Santa?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


I just told you based off extreme views and a ever changing questionaire would work fine and more importantly any history of their views and activities before they came to come to this vetting process.
Any false papers, denied.
Any later lies formulated to gain entry, they are then deported.
Many ways to do this, but it would mean denying any Wahhabists, Muslim brotherhood etc, islamist groups that seek islamic domination.
Are you claiming their beliefs are going to benefit the society?
Or be at odds with society?

Give me an example of a small questionnaire and let's see how hard it is to pass.

Then you'll see what I'm getting at.

I'd also love to know how you will obtain any history of their views?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:



What about Santa?

That chap who pretends he can visit all children in one night? Clearly he's a liar and not to be trusted.

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Give me an example of a small questionnaire and let's see how hard it is to pass.

Then you'll see what I'm getting at.

I'd also love to know how you will obtain any history of their views?

There are many ways to obatin the history of people and again if people are seen to be different after the vetting process they are then deported.
What did you fail to grasp about the Wahhabist and Muslim Brotherhood as to views?

Richard The Lionheart wrote:By the way this would extend to any religion like I said or far right or far left ideology of people being denied access through the vetting process.
I mean nobody wants extremists no matter their faith or political ideology.
Its a no brainer. I just point out certain ideologies of Islam as a point on the topic at hand. You then are bringing Muslims who want to be a part of that society. The same with Jews, Christians etc.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


There are many ways to obatin the history of people and again if people are seen to be different after the vetting process they are then deported.
What did you fail to grasp about the Wahhabist and Muslim Brotherhood as to views?

After they are here can be too late. So that's pointless.

What are these many ways? Specify.

So far all I have is a questionnaire it seems anyone can pass.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:By the way this would extend to any religion like I said or far right or far left ideology of people being denied access through the vetting process.
I mean nobody wants extremists no matter their faith or political ideology.
Its a no brainer. I just point out certain ideologies of Islam as a point on the topic at hand. You then are bringing Muslims who want to be a part of that society. The same with Jews, Christians etc.

Fred Phelps and his daughter were banned from the UK, and I didn't have a problem with that. I don't recall anyone having a problem with it actually.

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

After they are here can be too late. So that's pointless.

What are these many ways? Specify.

So far all I have is a questionnaire it seems anyone can pass.

Well why on earth would I tell a suspect Muslim.
Dp not want to give the game away now, so you can pass on how to pass.
Again what did you fail to understand by wahhabism and Muslim brotherhood ideologies?

Take your time

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Fred Phelps and his daughter were banned from the UK, and I didn't have a problem with that. I don't recall anyone having a problem with it actually.

Exactly and other extremist christians have been banned from coming and even far right like Pamela Gella and Robert Spencer. So it works in regards to all extremists as who wants any of them no matter their affiliation in society?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


Well why on earth would I tell a suspect Muslim.
Dp not want to give the game away now, so you can pass on how to pass.
Again what did you fail to understand by wahhabism and Muslim brotherhood ideologies?

Take your time

Lol! I'm already here and I'm a citizen. Do you want to take your time?

As suspected, you have nothing but Trump-like rhetoric.

A questionnaire anyone can pass and a non-existent process to determine a persons history.

Well done, Dick.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


Exactly and other extremist christians have been banned from coming and even far right like Pamela Gella and Robert Spencer. So it works in regards to all extremists as who wants any of them no matter their affiliation in society?

Lol! You do a Google search on Phelps and can determine their history.

Are you going to do a google search on each Muslim immigrant?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Lol!

That's pretty much all of them.

Would you trust this man?  

Lord Foul wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Would you trust this man?  

no more  than this man

Raggamuffin wrote:

Stormee wrote:Trump has a good chance of becoming USA President if he gives the people that which they want.

That's right, and he's taking a big gamble. If enough people agree with him and think it's a really important issue, they'll vote for him. On the other hand, if loads of people think he's a nut, they won't.

eddie wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

That's right, and he's taking a big gamble. If enough people agree with him and think it's a really important issue, they'll vote for him. On the other hand, if loads of people think he's a nut, they won't.

Something to consider: a lot of people like politicians that are outspoken. They stand out in a world full of plastic politicans.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Lord Foul wrote:

no more  than this man

Wasted on me I'm afraid - I'm not a Catholic.

Richard The Lionheart wrote:What gets me in all this as it seems to be a one way street with immigration in the majority as clearly the way of life here has less restrictions and far less chance of suffering oppression.

What gets me though is does Zack advocate mass immigration to the Middle East? I mean I have backed the right and still do for people to migrate to this country, but lets imagine for one second Saudi Arabia opened up its borders and relaxed its strict laws only for Non_Muslim immigration. Now hypothetically Ireland is suffereing high unemployment and where my Mother lives many have already emigrated from Ireland. Now imagine mass immigration of the Irish to Saudi Arabia, where many concregate in Mecca. To the point within a decade, Mecca no longer seems like Mecca and the many Saudi Arabs of centuries of ancestry have now come to view Mecca being so Irish, they refer to it as Dublin Decca.

Every other house is now a traditional Irish pub. Catholic schools have opened up with compulsary Irish dancing and Gaelic speaking lessons, even for Arab students that attend. Coountless Mosques have closed down and have been turned into Churches, as many many Saudi Arab Muslims have moved or migrated out of Dublin Decca. Boxing rings open up everywhere and every Friday night is one big Party in Dublin Decca.

Now many Saudi Arab Muslims are starting to fear their way of life and that they fear in no time it will become a Catholic country, based on an ideology of catholicisim.

Now how would Zack view this?
Would he be alarmed that the birth place of Islam could within centuries based on this mass migration become instead a Christian country?


All hypothetical of course, but I thought it would be interesting to place the shoe on the other foot so to speak.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:What gets me in all this as it seems to be a one way street with immigration in the majority as clearly the way of life here has less restrictions and far less chance of suffering oppression.

What gets me though is does Zack advocate mass immigration to the Middle East? I mean I have backed the right and still do for people to migrate to this country, but lets imagine for one second Saudi Arabia opened up its borders and relaxed its strict laws only for Non_Muslim immigration. Now hypothetically Ireland is suffereing high unemployment and where my Mother lives many have already emigrated from Ireland. Now imagine mass immigration of the Irish to Saudi Arabia, where many concregate in Mecca. To the point within a decade, Mecca no longer seems like Mecca and the many Saudi Arabs of centuries of ancestry have now come to view Mecca being so Irish, they refer to it as Dublin Decca.

Every other house is now a traditional Irish pub. Catholic schools have opened up with compulsary Irish dancing and Gaelic speaking lessons, even for Arab students that attend. Coountless Mosques have closed down and have been turned into Churches, as many many Saudi Arab Muslims have moved or migrated out of Dublin Decca. Boxing rings open up everywhere and every Friday night is one big Party in Dublin Decca.

Now many Saudi Arab Muslims are starting to fear their way of life and that they fear in no time it will become a Catholic country, based on an ideology of catholicisim.

Now how would Zack view this?
Would he be alarmed that the birth place of Islam could within centuries based on this mass migration become instead a Christian country?


All hypothetical of course, but I thought it would be interesting to place the shoe on the other foot so to speak.

I am secure in my faith.

I don't care what others do. I certainly don't care if Saudi's allowed non-Muslim immigration. Islam will continue to revert people. That's how secure I am in my faith. So allowing people in would be an ideal opportunity.

And Saudi Arabia is much bigger than just Mecca. Lol!

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

I am secure in my faith.

I don't care what others do. I certainly don't care if Saudi's allowed non-Muslim immigration. Islam will continue to revert people. That's how secure I am in my faith. So allowing people in would be an ideal opportunity.

And Saudi Arabia is much bigger than just Mecca. Lol!

You see I find that insulting for you to even think I was boirn Muslim.
Even worse how this also makes me automatically an apostate by that daft religion.
For a start it actually also insults my family who had me baptized and Confirmed as a Catholic, again without my consent of course, thus also being wrong. Can you not see how in Islam, it views all people as born Muslims, to then view them as apostates through something they never chosen themself, is fundementally disgusting and wrong?


So you basically actually avoided my main point and gave very poor deflections.
Think hypothetically and use your brain for once.
What if they did not Convert and that as stated is what happens and that there is a fear and that eventually it will turn Christian?

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:What gets me in all this as it seems to be a one way street with immigration in the majority as clearly the way of life here has less restrictions and far less chance of suffering oppression.

What gets me though is does Zack advocate mass immigration to the Middle East? I mean I have backed the right and still do for people to migrate to this country, but lets imagine for one second Saudi Arabia opened up its borders and relaxed its strict laws only for Non_Muslim immigration. Now hypothetically Ireland is suffereing high unemployment and where my Mother lives many have already emigrated from Ireland. Now imagine mass immigration of the Irish to Saudi Arabia, where many concregate in Mecca. To the point within a decade, Mecca no longer seems like Mecca and the many Saudi Arabs of centuries of ancestry have now come to view Mecca being so Irish, they refer to it as Dublin Decca.

Every other house is now a traditional Irish pub. Catholic schools have opened up with compulsary Irish dancing and Gaelic speaking lessons, even for Arab students that attend. Coountless Mosques have closed down and have been turned into Churches, as many many Saudi Arab Muslims have moved or migrated out of Dublin Decca. Boxing rings open up everywhere and every Friday night is one big Party in Dublin Decca.

Now many Saudi Arab Muslims are starting to fear their way of life and that they fear in no time it will become a Catholic country, based on an ideology of catholicisim.

Now how would Zack view this?
Would he be alarmed that the birth place of Islam could within centuries based on this mass migration become instead a Christian country?


All hypothetical of course, but I thought it would be interesting to place the shoe on the other foot so to speak.

I am secure in my faith.

I don't care what others do. I certainly don't care if Saudi's allowed non-Muslim immigration. Islam will continue to revert people. That's how secure I am in my faith. So allowing people in would be an ideal opportunity.

And Saudi Arabia is much bigger than just Mecca. Lol!

You see I find that insulting for you to even think I was boirn Muslim.
Even worse how this also makes me automatically an apostate by that daft religion.
For a start it actually also insults my family who had me baptized and Confirmed as a Catholic, again without my consent of course, thus also being wrong. Can you not see how in Islam, it views all people as born Muslims, to then view them as apostates through something they never chosen themself, is fundementally disgusting and wrong?


So you basically actually avoided my main point and gave very poor deflections.
Think hypothetically and use your brain for once.
What if they did not Convert and that as stated is what happens and that there is a fear and that eventually it will turn Christian?

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

You see I find that insulting for you to even think I was boirn Muslim.
Even worse how this also makes me automatically an apostate by that daft religion.
For a start it actually also insults my family who had me baptized and Confirmed as a Catholic, again without my consent of course, thus also being wrong. Can you not see how in Islam, it views all people as born Muslims, to then view them as apostates through something they never chosen themself, is fundementally disgusting and wrong?


So you basically actually avoided my main point and gave very poor deflections.
Think hypothetically and use your brain for once.
What if they did not Convert and that as stated is what happens and that there is a fear and that eventually it will turn Christian?

lol! You certainly don't have any problems insulting me. At least I have good intentions. I only want what's best for you. That is Islam.

As for your hypothetical, I'm a Muslim. So I believe in "in sha Allah", if God wills it.

As a Muslim, I know I am in control of only "my" reasoning, senses and motion. Nobody else's.

If every other Muslim wants to become atheist, that is God's will.

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

lol! You certainly don't have any problems insulting me. At least I have good intentions. I only want what's best for you. That is Islam.

As for your hypothetical, I'm a Muslim. So I believe in "in sha Allah", if God wills it.

As a Muslim, I know I am in control of only "my" reasoning, senses and motion. Nobody else's.

If every other Muslim wants to become atheist, that is God's will.

As you have no problems insulting me, the point being moot.
The point being it is derisive and insulting that a religion views people born Muslims, then even worse apostates if they are not Muslims growing up.
Which basically allows for an easy interpretation to execute them in reality.
Its derisive and why the religion has many problems that are poor in teaching.
This goes for the main Abrahamic faiths

Condtional Love
Eternal torture for not believing of a supposed creator.
Which if a parent created life as they do and their child did not believe their beliefs and then committed cruelty to them, we would rightly judge that child abuse
Hate and venegence over love, which rules out all forgiving and again is conditional.
Fear of pain and suffering to deny people a freedom of choice to love and believe.

I could go on the list is endless, but if you think that is something all intelligent, that is ruled by emotions over reason, then you clearly have never quetioned how irrational such a claim to a deity that is.


So your last point on god wanting all to become athiest would go against the funmental plan and objective for people to believe in him, negating the use and point of punishment, as he would then be condemning countless to eternal punishement, which would by such depravity, make that deity pure evil.

Again its a simple question to how you would personally feel over Mecca becoming flooded with Irish immigrants and it eventually becoming Christian and how you would view.
Its a simple question you keep avoiding.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


As you have no problems insulting me, the point being moot.
The point being it is derisive and insulting that a religion views people born Muslims, then even worse apostates if they are not Muslims growing up.
Which basically allows for an easy interpretation to execute them in reality.
Its derisive and why the religion has many problems that are poor in teaching.
This goes for the main Abrahamic faiths

Condtional Love
Eternal torture for not believing of a supposed creator.
Which if a parent created life as they do and their child did not believe their beliefs and then committed cruelty to them, we would rightly judge that child abuse
Hate and venegence over love, which rules out all forgiving and again is conditional.
Fear of pain and suffering to deny people a freedom of choice to love and believe.

I could go on the list is endless, but if you think that is something all intelligent, that is ruled by emotions over reason, then you clearly have never quetioned how irrational such a claim to a deity that is.


So your last point on god wanting all to become athiest would go against the funmental plan and objective for people to believe in him, negating the use and point of punishment, as he would then be condemning countless to eternal punishement, which would by such depravity, make that deity pure evil.

Again its a simple question to how you would personally feel over Mecca becoming flooded with Irish immigrants and it eventually becoming Christian and how you would view.
Its a simple question you keep avoiding.

There isn't much I can do if Mecca became Christian and they turned in the Kaaba into a boxing ring. So I don't really sweat over stuff I can't control.
But would other Muslims very much be in fear and have a cardiac arresst to the point they would go to war over this? Are you claiming a mass amount of Muslims would not start butchering the Irish immigrants enmass?

That's what you don't understand about Islam.
Oh I do because some Muslims got very upset over troops being invited to Saudi to help free Kuwait from occupation by saddam. They viewed this as a transgression

My parent (God) only wants 2 things from me:

1. To understand and submit to the will of God and what you control
2. You will be judged on how you use what you control. God wants you to use what you control "righteously".

I would want my child to be righteous. And I would discipline them they misbehaved. And if they committed a horrendous act, I would punish them. Or have them punished.

My children are a reflection of me and I would expect them to honour me by doing the right thing. Just as I try to do the same for my parents.

Raggamuffin wrote:It happens every time doesn't it? Threads turn into yet another argument about Islam itself.

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:It happens every time doesn't it? Threads turn into yet another argument about Islam itself.

The thread is about Muslims is it not?
So not sure how you can turn a thread about Muslims, who follow islam, into a thread about Islam and Muslims?

Explain?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


The thread is about Muslims is it not?
So not sure how you can turn a thread about Muslims, who follow islam, into a thread about Islam and Muslims?

Explain?

No, it's about Trump wanting them banned from the US, it's not about what Zack believes.

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

No, it's about Trump wanting them banned from the US, it's not about what Zack believes.

And Muslims respesent islam.
They are very much connected.
If you do not like the personal debate with me and zack, tough.
You do not driect and say how threads pan out, so allow others to have their discussions, as nobody is stopping you having yours.
You are just being spireful to be honest.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


And Muslims respesent islam.
They are very much connected.
If you do not like the personal debate with me and zack, tough.
You do not driect and say how threads pan out, so allow others to have their discussions, as nobody is stopping you having yours.
You are just being spireful to be honest.

No I'm not, I'm just tired of you directing every thread to go the way you want it to. Zack is no better though - he enables you to do it.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Richard The Lionheart wrote:


And Muslims respesent islam.
They are very much connected.
If you do not like the personal debate with me and zack, tough.
You do not driect and say how threads pan out, so allow others to have their discussions, as nobody is stopping you having yours.
You are just being spireful to be honest.

No I'm not, I'm just tired of you directing every thread to go the way you want it to. Zack is no better though - he enables you to do it.

Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

There isn't much I can do if Mecca became Christian and they turned in the Kaaba into a boxing ring. So I don't really sweat over stuff I can't control.
But would other Muslims very much be in fear and have a cardiac arresst to the point they would go to war over this? Are you claiming a mass amount of Muslims would not start butchering the Irish immigrants enmass?

That's what you don't understand about Islam.
Oh I do because some Muslims got very upset over troops being invited to Saudi to help free Kuwait from occupation by saddam. They viewed this as a transgression

My parent (God) only wants 2 things from me:

1. To understand and submit to the will of God and what you control
2. You will be judged on how you use what you control. God wants you to use what you control "righteously".

I would want my child to be righteous. And I would discipline them they misbehaved. And if they committed a horrendous act, I would punish them. Or have them punished.

My children are a reflection of me and I would expect them to honour me by doing the right thing. Just as I try to do the same for my parents.

Honour eh?
Its down to the criminal system in the country you live in to deal what punishement is necessary.
So you place honour over the laws of our country then?
Quelle surprise
So if your children turned away from religion that would dishonour you then very much?
Its a horrendus act in Islam, called apostacy, which allows for the chance to repent or that they are then executed if they do not.
So would you have them executed for this horrendus crime as it is viewed in islam?


The above also does not answer a single of the following points.


This goes for the main Abrahamic faiths

Condtional Love
Eternal torture for not believing of a supposed creator.
Which if a parent created life as they do and their child did not believe their beliefs and then committed cruelty to them, we would rightly judge that child abuse
Hate and venegence over love, which rules out all forgiving and again is conditional.
Fear of pain and suffering to deny people a freedom of choice to love and believe.

I could go on the list is endless, but if you think that is something all intelligent, that is ruled by emotions over reason, then you clearly have never quetioned how irrational such a claim to a deity that is.

So your last point on god wanting all to become athiest would go against the funmental plan and objective for people to believe in him, negating the use and point of punishment, as he would then be condemning countless to eternal punishement, which would by such depravity, make that deity pure evil.

Stormee wrote:http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/6794128/There-are-No-Go-Areas-in-London-Policeman-backs-up-Trumps-controversial-comments.html

Told ya so.