Watch: People don’t know the Bible from the Koran

by Guest Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

A duo of Dutch comedians who run the Dit is Normaal YouTube channel pulled off a telling and incredibly timely stunt.

They purchased a copy of the Bible, wrapped it in a fake cover indicating that it was the Koran, and read out some particularly troubling passages to passersby.

At the end, they reveal that these lines were actually from Christianity's holy book, not that of Islam, much to the bewilderment of those caught on camera. The video has garnered more than 2 million views since it was uploaded Friday.

Here are some of the passages the comedians highlight:

"If you reject my commands and abhor my laws you will eat the flesh of your own sons... and the flesh of your own daughters."
"A woman should learn in quietness and full submission."
"If two men sleep with each other they will both have to be killed."

To no great surprise, the people interviewed are not impressed and wonder aloud that violence is ingrained in Islam.

Some even suggest that the Bible is a more "positive" and "less harsh" religious tract.

This echoes a strain of thought now peddled by some prominent analysts and politicians, who pin the root causes of Islamist militancy on the fundamental nature of Islam itself — rather than more recent historical and political factors that have led to the rise of extremism in certain corners of the world.

As the video shows, though, all ancient religious texts carry language that we would now find disturbing.

"It's all just prejudice really. I always try not to be prejudiced myself, but apparently I already am," concludes one of the people hoodwinked by the experiment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/12/07/watch-people-dont-know-the-bible-from-the-koran/?tid=pm_world_pop_b

Facinating

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:23 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:There are people on this forum who will use the term "cherry picking" when it comes to the Bible and the Koran. If a Muslim cherry picks from the Koran, I don't have a problem with that - well as long as it's not bits saying they should kill anyone obviously.

Being a Muslim one cant cherry pick. You either take it fully or you don't believe in it.

Really? I haven't read the Koran - I started but got bored after a few pages. If it's all or nothing, it's not surprising that some people disapprove of it. Are there bits which say that non-Muslims should be killed, and stuff like that?

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:24 pm

I presume it could all be a matter of interpretation as well. That applies to parts of the New Testament too.

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:25 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Being a Muslim one cant cherry pick. You either take it fully or you don't believe in it.

Really? I haven't read the Koran - I started but got bored after a few pages. If it's all or nothing, it's not surprising that some people disapprove of it. Are there bits which say that non-Muslims should be killed, and stuff like that?

Nope it doesn't.

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:26 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Really? I haven't read the Koran - I started but got bored after a few pages. If it's all or nothing, it's not surprising that some people disapprove of it. Are there bits which say that non-Muslims should be killed, and stuff like that?

Nope it doesn't.

There have been quotes from the Koran on here, but I tend to skip over them, so I don't know what it says. Perhaps someone who has studied it can back you up or disagree with you.

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:27 pm

Cause if that was true there would be all Muslims would be going around killing everyone

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:28 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:Cause if that was true there would be all Muslims would be going around killing everyone

Only if they took it literally - it would depend on the wording. Also, they might cherry pick even if you don't.

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:28 pm

Why do humans think they can judge who is or is not a believer?
You can certainly judge them over how much they are a believer or how their views conflict from the religious text, but are they now placing themselves on a par with the deity they claim exists?

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:29 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Nope it doesn't.

There have been quotes from the Koran on here, but I tend to skip over them, so I don't know what it says. Perhaps someone who has studied it can back you up or disagree with you.

I have read the Quran in its native language no one here can say the same thing( apart from Zack) so no I really couldn't give a toss if someone disagrees.

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:30 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:Cause if that was true there would be all Muslims would be going around killing everyone

There is 42,000 Christian denominations

Which one can claim to be the true Christian?

You do realise also there is such a thing as practicing and non-praticing based again on how a religion is viewed and interpreted

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:30 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:Why do humans think they can judge who is or is not a believer?
You can certainly judge them over how much they are a believer or how their views conflict from the religious text, but are they now placing themselves on a par with the deity they claim exists?

Who has done that on this thread? Sassy has said previously that I'm not a believer, and I think you have too.

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:31 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

There have been quotes from the Koran on here, but I tend to skip over them, so I don't know what it says. Perhaps someone who has studied it can back you up or disagree with you.

I have read the Quran in its native language no one here can say the same thing( apart from Zack) so no I really couldn't give a toss if someone disagrees.

Did you get out of bed the wrong side?

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:31 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

There have been quotes from the Koran on here, but I tend to skip over them, so I don't know what it says. Perhaps someone who has studied it can back you up or disagree with you.

I have read the Quran in its native language no one here can say the same thing( apart from Zack) so no I really couldn't give a toss if someone disagrees.

How will that givce confidence to people who hold nagging views over a religion?
You do realise that just then confims their concerns?

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:33 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:Why do humans think they can judge who is or is not a believer?
You can certainly judge them over how much they are a believer or how their views conflict from the religious text, but are they now placing themselves on a par with the deity they claim exists?

Who has done that on this thread? Sassy has said previously that I'm not a believer, and I think you have too.

I have said you are not a real Christian.
In a sense that is how I have set the bar as to what is.
Which crosses over to the other thread.
So that is a fair point but I certainly think you can question if values conflict from a claim of belief to that faith, would you not agree?

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:33 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:Cause if that was true there would be all Muslims would be going around killing everyone

There is 42,000 Christian denominations

Which one can claim to be the true Christian?

You do realise also there is such a thing as practicing and non-praticing based again on how a religion is viewed and interpreted

A Christian believes that Jesus was the Son of God, and a few other basic things.

There are other details which they differ on - whether the Pope has a hotline to God, for example, or whether people should abstain from blood, etc.

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:34 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Who has done that on this thread? Sassy has said previously that I'm not a believer, and I think you have too.

I have said you are not a real Christian.
In a sense that is how I have set the bar as to what is.
Which crosses over to the other thread.
So that is a fair point but I certainly think you can question if values conflict from a claim of belief to that faith, would you not agree?

Define "real Christian".

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:34 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:Cause if that was true there would be all Muslims would be going around killing everyone

There is 42,000 Christian denominations

Which one can claim to be the true Christian?

You do realise also there is such a thing as practicing and non-praticing based again on how a religion is viewed and interpreted

And?

Muslims either believe the FULL Quran or they don't and are non Muslims. They cannot choose the verses they like or dislike. It doesn't work that way as Islam is a way of life.

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:35 pm

I mean, SM has said that ISIS are not Muslims, but which I presume she means "real Muslims". I say they are, they're just not ones she approves of.

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:35 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

There is 42,000 Christian denominations

Which one can claim to be the true Christian?

You do realise also there is such a thing as practicing and non-praticing based again on how a religion is viewed and interpreted

And?

Muslims either believe the FULL Quran or they don't and are non Muslims. They cannot choose the verses they like or dislike. It doesn't work that way as Islam is a way of life.

Another Muslim might disagree with you.

What about a Muslim who secretly eats in the day during Ramadan?

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:37 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

There is 42,000 Christian denominations

Which one can claim to be the true Christian?

You do realise also there is such a thing as practicing and non-praticing based again on how a religion is viewed and interpreted

And?

Muslims either believe the FULL Quran or they don't and are non Muslims. They cannot choose the verses they like or dislike. It doesn't work that way as Islam is a way of life.

Many Muslims also deify many Hadiths on a par with the Quran.
Does that also make them Muslims?
Some Muslims discount all hadiths.
The point is and what is completely wrong with religions, is they judge others based off these beliefs and even worse impose their beliefs to punish others based off that judgement.
I mean that ius basically religious believers think they can judge on a par to how their claim to a deity does.
Can you see how by that people will view religions as very problematic?

by nicko Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:38 pm

You should see the "devout" Muslims coming out of the local Hotel near to me, pissed as Newts.

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:39 pm

nicko wrote:You should see the "devout" Muslims coming out of the local Hotel near to me, pissed as Newts.

Lol the bloody hypocrites.

There is a verse for people like them in the Quran Wink

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

And?

Muslims either believe the FULL Quran or they don't and are non Muslims. They cannot choose the verses they like or dislike. It doesn't work that way as Islam is a way of life.

Another Muslim might disagree with you.

What about a Muslim who secretly eats in the day during Ramadan?

Then they're not following one of the 5 pillars of Islam. Not the best Muslim but yes, you're right, still a Muslim.

With Isis however, the disregard most of the Quran. As SM says, you believe it all, or none. That is what makes you a Muslim. Look up Islamic articles of faith.

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:39 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

I have said you are not a real Christian.
In a sense that is how I have set the bar as to what is.
Which crosses over to the other thread.
So that is a fair point but I certainly think you can question if values conflict from a claim of belief to that faith, would you not agree?

Define "real Christian".

My standard is set on the teachings and beliefs of Jesus set in all the religious textxs, including those not in the bible. As it was men centuries after that decided on the book.
Anyway I just said its impossible to set who is, but I can question values within that faith if they conflict, can I not with religious text?>

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:40 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

And?

Muslims either believe the FULL Quran or they don't and are non Muslims. They cannot choose the verses they like or dislike. It doesn't work that way as Islam is a way of life.

Many Muslims also deify many Hadiths on a par with the Quran.
Does that also make them Muslims?
Some Muslims discount all hadiths.
The point is and what is completely wrong with religions, is they judge others based off these beliefs and even worse impose their beliefs to punish others based off that judgement.
I mean that ius basically religious believers think they can judge on a par to how their claim to a deity does.
Can you see how by that people will view religions as very problematic?

Not all people with religious faith do that. I don't agree with some of the Catholic stuff, but I don't say they're not Christians, and I actually defend their right to believe what they believe. I wouldn't try to convert a Muslim to Christianity either.

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:41 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

And?

Muslims either believe the FULL Quran or they don't and are non Muslims. They cannot choose the verses they like or dislike. It doesn't work that way as Islam is a way of life.

Many Muslims also deify many Hadiths on a par with the Quran.

If they deny the Quran then they are not Muslims its very simple.
Does that also make them Muslims?
NOPE
Some Muslims discount all hadiths.

They cant be Muslims then
The point is and what is completely wrong with religions, is they judge others based off these beliefs and even worse impose their beliefs to punish others based off that judgement.
I mean that ius basically religious believers think they can judge on a par to how their claim to a deity does.
Can you see how by that people will view religions as very problematic?

its really simple its people who make it complicated

by nicko Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:41 pm

Sexy, is that your pussy in the avatar?

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:42 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Another Muslim might disagree with you.

What about a Muslim who secretly eats in the day during Ramadan?

Then they're not following one of the 5 pillars of Islam. Not the best Muslim but yes, you're right, still a Muslim.

With Isis however, the disregard most of the Quran. As SM says, you believe it all, or none. That is what makes you a Muslim. Look up Islamic articles of faith.

What if another Muslim says they don't have to believe all of it or none though? I don't think it's fair to say they're not a Muslim, even though they believe the basic stuff.

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:42 pm

One thing you will find is that literal believers aree very over sensitive to their faith, some to the extreme.
That is very unhealthy, as it places a book on the highest pedastal over everything including family themselves.

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:42 pm

nicko wrote:Sexy, is that your pussy in the avatar?

Keep it clean nicko. Shocked

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:43 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Many Muslims also deify many Hadiths on a par with the Quran.
Does that also make them Muslims?
Some Muslims discount all hadiths.
The point is and what is completely wrong with religions, is they judge others based off these beliefs and even worse impose their beliefs to punish others based off that judgement.
I mean that ius basically religious believers think they can judge on a par to how their claim to a deity does.
Can you see how by that people will view religions as very problematic?

Not all people with religious faith do that. I don't agree with some of the Catholic stuff, but I don't say they're not Christians, and I actually defend their right to believe what they believe. I wouldn't try to convert a Muslim to Christianity either.

You cant force Religion on someone. Its all about intentions.

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:43 pm

nicko wrote:Sexy, is that your pussy in the avatar?

Yup my Tango Wink

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:44 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Then they're not following one of the 5 pillars of Islam. Not the best Muslim but yes, you're right, still a Muslim.

With Isis however, the disregard most of the Quran. As SM says, you believe it all, or none. That is what makes you a Muslim. Look up Islamic articles of faith.

What if another Muslim says they don't have to believe all of it or none though? I don't think it's fair to say they're not a Muslim, even though they believe the basic stuff.

Then by definition they're not Muslim. Simple.

You were confused between practice (such as the pillars) and the articles of faith.

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:45 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Richard The Lionheart wrote:

Many Muslims also deify many Hadiths on a par with the Quran.

If they deny the Quran then they are not Muslims its very simple.
Does that also make them Muslims?
NOPE
Some Muslims discount all hadiths.

They cant be Muslims then
The point is and what is completely wrong with religions, is they judge others based off these beliefs and even worse impose their beliefs to punish others based off that judgement.
I mean that ius basically religious believers think they can judge on a par to how their claim to a deity does.
Can you see how by that people will view religions as very problematic?

its really simple its people who make it complicated

That did not answer my question did it sexy

Muslims place hadiths, as if surahs of allah, when they are just the supposed claims and deeds of a man.
That is problematic and renders the quran redundent as the last message

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:45 pm

So why do some Muslim women wear burkas or head scarves and others don't? Is that because of the interpretation of something in the Koran?

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:47 pm

Just in case you misread my post sexy

deify
verb
worship or regard as a god.

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:48 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I mean, SM has said that ISIS are not Muslims, but which I presume she means "real Muslims". I say they are, they're just not ones she approves of.

ISIS or any such group who murder Muslims and Non Muslims are not from my religion Ragamuffin. As I have said you don't cherry pick from the Quran.

The ISIS have killed more Mulsims than Non Muslims and they have the audacity to go around calling themselves from the same religion!

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:48 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:So why do some Muslim women wear burkas or head scarves and others don't? Is that because of the interpretation of something in the Koran?

A lot of the practices of dressing are derived from Hadith - which is open to interpretation.

The Quran only asks for modesty.

How this modesty is interpreted tends to be cultural.

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:49 pm

So why have not the majority of the Muslim religious leaders Sexy, classified ISIS as apostates?
This would go a long way to seperate extremism from being associated to islam.

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:50 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:So why do some Muslim women wear burkas or head scarves and others don't? Is that because of the interpretation of something in the Koran?

Its a cultural thing not Islamic as such.

Some people believe heads should be covered whilst others believe the whole body should be.

I say when in Rome....

Its all about Modesty

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:51 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

its really simple its people who make it complicated

That did not answer my question did it sexy

Muslims place hadiths, as if surahs of allah, when they are just the supposed claims and deeds of a man.
That is problematic and renders the quran redundent as the last message

??

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:52 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:So why have not the majority of the Muslim religious leaders Sexy, classified ISIS as apostates?
This would go a long way to seperate extremism from being associated to islam.

Lol! What makes you think they haven't condemned Isis?

Which ones haven't?

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:52 pm

Richard The Lionheart wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

its really simple its people who make it complicated

That did not answer my question did it sexy

Muslims place hadiths, as if surahs of allah, when they are just the supposed claims and deeds of a man.
That is problematic and renders the quran redundent as the last message

Hadiths need to be authenticated. Not all Hadiths are.

They are not supposed claims of a man though and that's why you wont understand how a Muslim has faith. The prophet is the most respected man only after Allah.

by SEXY MAMA Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:54 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:So why do some Muslim women wear burkas or head scarves and others don't? Is that because of the interpretation of something in the Koran?

A lot of the practices of dressing are derived from Hadith - which is open to interpretation.

The Quran only asks for modesty.

How this modesty is interpreted tends to be cultural.

Lol You said it much better than I did

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:54 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I mean, SM has said that ISIS are not Muslims, but which I presume she means "real Muslims". I say they are, they're just not ones she approves of.

ISIS or any such group who murder Muslims and Non Muslims are not from my religion Ragamuffin. As I have said you don't cherry pick from the Quran.

The ISIS have killed more Mulsims than Non Muslims and they have the audacity to go around calling themselves from the same religion!

I don't think that many non-Muslims would create such a distinction.

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:55 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:So why do some Muslim women wear burkas or head scarves and others don't? Is that because of the interpretation of something in the Koran?

Its a cultural thing not Islamic as such.

Some people believe heads should be covered whilst others believe the whole body should be.

I say when in Rome....

Its all about Modesty

So is it not mentioned in the Koran at all?

Also, is it harder when Ramadan is in the summer? After all, the days are longer.

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:56 pm

SEXY MAMA wrote:
Fuzzy Zack wrote:

A lot of the practices of dressing are derived from Hadith - which is open to interpretation.

The Quran only asks for modesty.

How this modesty is interpreted tends to be cultural.

Lol You said it much better than I did

Thanks Sis.

I'm glad we said exactly the same thing.

There are some on here who think we say any old shit just to suit us. Xxx

by Fuzzy Zack Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
SEXY MAMA wrote:

Its a cultural thing not Islamic as such.

Some people believe heads should be covered whilst others believe the whole body should be.

I say when in Rome....

Its all about Modesty

So is it not mentioned in the Koran at all?

Also, is it harder when Ramadan is in the summer? After all, the days are longer.

A billion times harder.

Instead of fasting 8 hours per day, in the Summer you're fasting around 18 hours

by Guest Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:57 pm

Again that did not answer my question Sexy
They are placing supposed claims to the deeds of a man and placing them as divine as that of the deity they worship.
That renders the claim to the Quran being the last message as redundent.

For example adultery is only punishable in the Quran with lashes and yet for centuries and a sizeable amount of Muslims take the hdaith to view this as punishable as death.

Thus any hadith that differs in the slightest to the quran should automatically be seen as false, but the problem is as seen, many are not and many are viewed as valid, based on the views of men who never even knew or lived with Muhammad.

Very preoblematic and why Islam has so many issues today

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:57 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:So why do some Muslim women wear burkas or head scarves and others don't? Is that because of the interpretation of something in the Koran?

A lot of the practices of dressing are derived from Hadith - which is open to interpretation.

The Quran only asks for modesty.

How this modesty is interpreted tends to be cultural.

So there is room for interpretation then. I don't see how Muslims can either believe or not believe the Koran as a fixed thing when there is room for interpretation.

by Raggamuffin Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:58 pm

Fuzzy Zack wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

So is it not mentioned in the Koran at all?

Also, is it harder when Ramadan is in the summer? After all, the days are longer.

A billion times harder.

Instead of fasting 8 hours per day, in the Summer you're fasting around 18 hours

Quite useful if you're trying to lose weight though. Laughing

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