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Parents Charged With Killing Son In Church

A teenager is killed and his brother is seriously hurt in a so-called "counselling session" aimed at getting them to confess sins.

19:03, UK, Wednesday 14 October 2015
Bruce Leonard and his wife Deborah Leonard are charged in the beating death of their 19-year-old son



A couple have been charged with fatally beating their 19-year-old son in an apparent "counselling session" at a church in central New York

Bruce Leonard, 65, and 59-year-old Deborah Leonard are charged with first-degree manslaughter in the death of their son Lucas.

Four other members of the Word of Life Church in New Hartford were charged with assault for the attack that also left Lucas' younger brother, Christopher, seriously injured.

Authorities said the beatings were part of what parishioners referred to as a "counselling session".
David Morey, 26, of Utica Linda Morey, 54, are charged with felony second-degree assault

David Morey, 26, and Linda Morey, 54, pleaded not guilty to assault

New Hartford Police Chief Michael Inserra said the teens were subjected to hours of physical punishment "in hopes that each would confess to prior sins and ask for forgiveness".

Investigators are still looking into what the supposed sins were, Chief Inserra said.

Officers responded to the church at about 12.30pm on Monday after family members brought Lucas to hospital, where he was pronounced dead.
Sarah Ferguson, 33 and Joseph Irwin, 26, are charged with felony second-degree assault

Sarah Ferguson, 33, and Joseph Irwin, 26, were also charged

State and local officials cordoned off the church and began interviewing parishioners.

Several children found inside were turned over to child welfare officials, police said.

Authorities said Lucas and Christopher suffered injuries to their abdomens, genitals, backs and thighs.

Christopher, 17, remains in hospital in serious condition, Chief Inserra told a news conference on Wednesday.

The teens' parents pleaded not guilty at their arraignment on Tuesday and are being held in Oneida County Jail in lieu of $100,000 bail each.

Lawyers for the couple declined to comment on the case.

David Morey, 26, Linda Morey, 54, Sarah Ferguson, 33 and Joseph Irwin, 26, were ordered held on $50,000 bail. All four pleaded not guilty to a felony count of second-degree assault.


from "http://news.sky.com/story/1569536/parents-charged-with-killing-son-in-church"



If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. -- Exodus 21:15

He that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. -- Exodus 21:17

Eilzel wrote:Maybe he should just blanket ban a tonne of people Nems? I know that if I set up a forum, for me and my friends, to discuss news, only to have the forum massively take on a bunch of people, some with views I found beneath contempt- I'd have zero hesitation in banning everyone who I didn't personally want there, or felt was a cause of trouble.

NOT because I'd be against free speech. Because I'm not. But because (hypothetically) I set up a forum, for MY friends, to discuss things MY way, without being pissed off by people I didn't particularly like.

Ben could go on one of many forums with various views. But this is HIS forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. Yet he does, out of his own decency, and he has been immensely tolerant of people giving him all kinds of shit considering he has no obligation to.

Exactly!

Eilzel wrote:Maybe he should just blanket ban a tonne of people Nems? I know that if I set up a forum, for me and my friends, to discuss news, only to have the forum massively take on a bunch of people, some with views I found beneath contempt- I'd have zero hesitation in banning everyone who I didn't personally want there, or felt was a cause of trouble.

NOT because I'd be against free speech. Because I'm not. But because (hypothetically) I set up a forum, for MY friends, to discuss things MY way, without being pissed off by people I didn't particularly like.

Ben could go on one of many forums with various views. But this is HIS forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. Yet he does, out of his own decency, and he has been immensely tolerant of people giving him all kinds of shit considering he has no obligation to.

Know what Les I was just going to ask Ben why he doesn't ban us? Instead of whining. If you could be objective, you would acknowledge that Veya lost his temper and banned VOD & HF out of spite. But as they don't like gays you cant be objective. That is one of your main failings you only see things in terms of gay friendly or not gay friendly. Yes it is Bens forum and if he had moderated it a lot of this would have been avoided but he cant because he cant be unbiased.
Im very disappointed in you Les. Instead of sucking up to Ben you should be taking Quill and Veya and Didge to task over their appalling treatment of Eddie. But you don't because ultimately all you care about is you. Shabby Les very very shabby.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Maybe he should just blanket ban a tonne of people Nems? I know that if I set up a forum, for me and my friends, to discuss news, only to have the forum massively take on a bunch of people, some with views I found beneath contempt- I'd have zero hesitation in banning everyone who I didn't personally want there, or felt was a cause of trouble.

NOT because I'd be against free speech. Because I'm not. But because (hypothetically) I set up a forum, for MY friends, to discuss things MY way, without being pissed off by people I didn't particularly like.

Ben could go on one of many forums with various views. But this is HIS forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. Yet he does, out of his own decency, and he has been immensely tolerant of people giving him all kinds of shit considering he has no obligation to.

Exactly!

You are another one that suffers from a very short memory.

Nems wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Exactly!

You are another one that suffers from a very short memory.

Care to elaborate

Eilzel wrote:Maybe he should just blanket ban a tonne of people Nems? I know that if I set up a forum, for me and my friends, to discuss news, only to have the forum massively take on a bunch of people, some with views I found beneath contempt- I'd have zero hesitation in banning everyone who I didn't personally want there, or felt was a cause of trouble.

NOT because I'd be against free speech. Because I'm not. But because (hypothetically) I set up a forum, for MY friends, to discuss things MY way, without being pissed off by people I didn't particularly like.

Ben could go on one of many forums with various views. But this is HIS forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. Yet he does, out of his own decency, and he has been immensely tolerant of people giving him all kinds of shit considering he has no obligation to.

That's a great idea. Maybe you could give him a list of posters that you think he should ban. Be sure to include my name on it.

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Maybe he should just blanket ban a tonne of people Nems? I know that if I set up a forum, for me and my friends, to discuss news, only to have the forum massively take on a bunch of people, some with views I found beneath contempt- I'd have zero hesitation in banning everyone who I didn't personally want there, or felt was a cause of trouble.

NOT because I'd be against free speech. Because I'm not. But because (hypothetically) I set up a forum, for MY friends, to discuss things MY way, without being pissed off by people I didn't particularly like.

Ben could go on one of many forums with various views. But this is HIS forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. Yet he does, out of his own decency, and he has been immensely tolerant of people giving him all kinds of shit considering he has no obligation to.

Know what Les I was just going to ask Ben why he doesn't ban us?  Instead of whining. If you could be objective, you would acknowledge that Veya lost his temper and banned VOD & HF out of spite. But as they don't like gays you cant be objective. That is one of your main failings you only see things in terms of gay friendly or not gay friendly. Yes it is Bens forum and if he had moderated it a lot of this would have been avoided but he cant because he cant be unbiased.
Im very disappointed in you Les. Instead of sucking up to Ben you should be taking Quill and Veya and Didge  to task over their appalling treatment of Eddie. But you don't because ultimately all you care about is you. Shabby Les very very shabby.

I disagree completely
Les is very unbiased and is fair.

What I don't understand is why you haven't bothered reading all the hate shit fest from the VOD and HF.
All their posts were pathetic and Incited hate. Veya banned them cause inevitably they would cause more havoc Like THEY always do. They are banned FROM EVERY FIRUM! There is a reason for that!

Ben_Reilly wrote:

eddie wrote:Hmmm well seeing as the majority of Brit-bathers hate the the Brits for "bashing" other people......

See where I'm going with this too?

I'm not perfect, edds, just telling you about what's going on with me. I haven't listened to the Beatles, which were once my favorite group, in ages. Haven't watched Doctor Who in ages. The hateful, ignorant Brits we have on this site are putting a real bad taste in my mouth when I think about the UK, a place that I always thought was really cool before I started this godforsaken oral cancer of a news forum. I've encountered so many abysmally stupid and hate-filled British people here, I'm just about positive it has changed me.

Well that goes both ways. I had no idea that the leftie Americans were so bigoted against Christians, and that they want to keep black people down by calling them victims.

The most hate-filled "British" person here was Didge - you know, the person you never ever pulled up for abusing eddie, the person you chose as a moderator.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Nems wrote:

You are another one that suffers from a very short memory.

Care to elaborate

Why have you forgotten all the times you flounced?
As a Muslim you should be very disturbed at people being abused over their religious beliefs
but you aren't because the only one you care about is your own.
And before you start off on all the abuse you have had, you have more than held your own
and said some terrible things too.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Nems wrote:

Know what Les I was just going to ask Ben why he doesn't ban us?  Instead of whining. If you could be objective, you would acknowledge that Veya lost his temper and banned VOD & HF out of spite. But as they don't like gays you cant be objective. That is one of your main failings you only see things in terms of gay friendly or not gay friendly. Yes it is Bens forum and if he had moderated it a lot of this would have been avoided but he cant because he cant be unbiased.
Im very disappointed in you Les. Instead of sucking up to Ben you should be taking Quill and Veya and Didge  to task over their appalling treatment of Eddie. But you don't because ultimately all you care about is you. Shabby Les very very shabby.

I disagree completely
Les is very unbiased and is fair.

What I don't understand is why you haven't bothered reading all the hate shit fest from the VOD and HF.
All their posts were pathetic and Incited hate. Veya banned them cause inevitably  they would cause more havoc Like THEY always do. They are banned FROM EVERY FIRUM! There is a reason for that!

Veya baited VOD and HF, in cahoots with Didge. I think that was the plan - bait them to try to get them to react and say something awful. When that failed, Veya had to find an excuse to ban them, and he used eddie as an excuse - because she told him he was a bully.

You see, you wouldn't have noticed what was going on, but I did, because I notice the Christian-bashing more than you do.

Nems wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Care to elaborate

Why have you forgotten all the times you flounced?
As a Muslim you should be very disturbed at people being abused over their religious beliefs
but you aren't because the only one you care about is your own.
And before you start off on all the abuse you have had, you have more than held your own
and said some terrible things too.

So what if I left for a while what the hell has that got to do with anything?
You obviously are blind if you can't see what VOD and her husband are like. No point in telling you if you are ignorant then!

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

I'm not perfect, edds, just telling you about what's going on with me. I haven't listened to the Beatles, which were once my favorite group, in ages. Haven't watched Doctor Who in ages. The hateful, ignorant Brits we have on this site are putting a real bad taste in my mouth when I think about the UK, a place that I always thought was really cool before I started this godforsaken oral cancer of a news forum. I've encountered so many abysmally stupid and hate-filled British people here, I'm just about positive it has changed me.

Well that goes both ways. I had no idea that the leftie Americans were so bigoted against Christians, and that they want to keep black people down by calling them victims.

The most hate-filled "British" person here was Didge - you know, the person you never ever pulled up for abusing eddie, the person you chose as a moderator.

Ben isn't bigotted against Christians per say, just the one like HF and Vod who call gays 'perverted' etc etc etc.  I expect he feels just the same about the American bigots who say the same.

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Maybe he should just blanket ban a tonne of people Nems? I know that if I set up a forum, for me and my friends, to discuss news, only to have the forum massively take on a bunch of people, some with views I found beneath contempt- I'd have zero hesitation in banning everyone who I didn't personally want there, or felt was a cause of trouble.

NOT because I'd be against free speech. Because I'm not. But because (hypothetically) I set up a forum, for MY friends, to discuss things MY way, without being pissed off by people I didn't particularly like.

Ben could go on one of many forums with various views. But this is HIS forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. Yet he does, out of his own decency, and he has been immensely tolerant of people giving him all kinds of shit considering he has no obligation to.

Know what Les I was just going to ask Ben why he doesn't ban us?  Instead of whining. If you could be objective, you would acknowledge that Veya lost his temper and banned VOD & HF out of spite. But as they don't like gays you cant be objective. That is one of your main failings you only see things in terms of gay friendly or not gay friendly. Yes it is Bens forum and if he had moderated it a lot of this would have been avoided but he cant because he cant be unbiased.
Im very disappointed in you Les. Instead of sucking up to Ben you should be taking Quill and Veya and Didge  to task over their appalling treatment of Eddie. But you don't because ultimately all you care about is you. Shabby Les very very shabby.

I'm sucking up to Ben? Or do I see things from his pov?
I'm only seeing things through the view of who is gay friendly?

Shabby Nems, very shabby.

I actually believe veya was angry when he banned HF and VOD. Let me ask you, if YOU had a forum, YOUR forum, and someone you didn't like (bordering on hate) was making YOU angry. Would you think it unreasonable to ban them? I don't.

Imagine if it was your house. Someone walks in, who you don't like. Out of pure decency you think, whatever they can stay. Then, not long after, they start saying things you object to and make you angry.

Would you ask them to leave? Of course you would.

And yes I hate VOD and HF. And I am biased. I don't particularly care. We are ALL biased so don't use the word like you are free of bias yourself, you are not.

I strongly dislike the fact they were allowed to come back here but whatever. Now they are gone that's great as far as I'm concerned.

As to didge and veya, both are guilty of saying vile things at times, but again everyone is. I haven't read everything said, if I was involved in those discussions I may have but I wasn't. I noticed HF and VOD had been banned and that Ben was getting shit for it. It. Is. His. Forum.

sassy wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Well that goes both ways. I had no idea that the leftie Americans were so bigoted against Christians, and that they want to keep black people down by calling them victims.

The most hate-filled "British" person here was Didge - you know, the person you never ever pulled up for abusing eddie, the person you chose as a moderator.

Ben isn't bigotted against Christians per say, just the one like HF and Vod who call gays 'perverted' etc etc etc.  I expect he feels just the same about the American bigots who say the same.

You mean the ones like Zack who called gay people worse than that. He didn't get banned did he? Then again, he's not a Christian.

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Nems wrote:

Know what Les I was just going to ask Ben why he doesn't ban us?  Instead of whining. If you could be objective, you would acknowledge that Veya lost his temper and banned VOD & HF out of spite. But as they don't like gays you cant be objective. That is one of your main failings you only see things in terms of gay friendly or not gay friendly. Yes it is Bens forum and if he had moderated it a lot of this would have been avoided but he cant because he cant be unbiased.
Im very disappointed in you Les. Instead of sucking up to Ben you should be taking Quill and Veya and Didge  to task over their appalling treatment of Eddie. But you don't because ultimately all you care about is you. Shabby Les very very shabby.

I disagree completely
Les is very unbiased and is fair.

What I don't understand is why you haven't bothered reading all the hate shit fest from the VOD and HF.
All their posts were pathetic and Incited hate. Veya banned them cause inevitably  they would cause more havoc Like THEY always do. They are banned FROM EVERY FIRUM! There is a reason for that!

People seem to be either enormously forgiving or have massively short term memories. As mods on SF, myself, Vic and Nems all agreed on not even allowing VOD and HF on to the forum in the first place.

Eilzel wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

I disagree completely
Les is very unbiased and is fair.

What I don't understand is why you haven't bothered reading all the hate shit fest from the VOD and HF.
All their posts were pathetic and Incited hate. Veya banned them cause inevitably  they would cause more havoc Like THEY always do. They are banned FROM EVERY FIRUM! There is a reason for that!

People seem to be either enormously forgiving or have massively short term memories. As mods on SF, myself, Vic and Nems all agreed on not even allowing VOD and HF on to the forum in the first place.

I know
So preaching here just shows their hypocrisy!
I'm not stupid and I don't forget!

Eilzel wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

I disagree completely
Les is very unbiased and is fair.

What I don't understand is why you haven't bothered reading all the hate shit fest from the VOD and HF.
All their posts were pathetic and Incited hate. Veya banned them cause inevitably  they would cause more havoc Like THEY always do. They are banned FROM EVERY FIRUM! There is a reason for that!

People seem to be either enormously forgiving or have massively short term memories. As mods on SF, myself, Vic and Nems all agreed on not even allowing VOD and HF on to the forum in the first place.

Absolutely correct!

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's me who seems to be getting to you Quill.

Are you jealous of my education Quill? Are you jealous that I worked in London? Anyone can go and work in London, and anyone can pay attention at school, and at least attempt to get A Levels and go to college. The fact that you can't admit that I worked for those things just confirms your namby-pamby leftie attitude that I must have been "given" them.

I know.  I taught at the University of London while doing a post-doctorate fellowship there.  S'wonderful that you were able to do those things.  But, then, why do you want to block others from doing them?

Or is it just because they are black?

I think you're getting me mixed up with someone else. I said that black people have the same opportunities as me. Perhaps someone else said that they shouldn't. Perhaps it's the voices in your head - after all, you're the one who tells them they're victims and that they're not equal to others.

Eilzel wrote:Maybe he should just blanket ban a tonne of people Nems? I know that if I set up a forum, for me and my friends, to discuss news, only to have the forum massively take on a bunch of people, some with views I found beneath contempt- I'd have zero hesitation in banning everyone who I didn't personally want there, or felt was a cause of trouble.

NOT because I'd be against free speech. Because I'm not. But because (hypothetically) I set up a forum, for MY friends, to discuss things MY way, without being pissed off by people I didn't particularly like.

Ben could go on one of many forums with various views. But this is HIS forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. Yet he does, out of his own decency, and he has been immensely tolerant of people giving him all kinds of shit considering he has no obligation to.

What if you wanted to join a forum that wouldn't accept gays?
I thought you promoted tolerance of all people?

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Nems wrote:

Why have you forgotten all the times you flounced?
As a Muslim you should be very disturbed at people being abused over their religious beliefs
but you aren't because the only one you care about is your own.
And before you start off on all the abuse you have had, you have more than held your own
and said some terrible things too.

So what if I left for a while what the hell has that got to do with anything?
You obviously are blind if you can't see what VOD and her husband are like. No point in telling you if you are ignorant then!

Don't all me ignorant please Im far from it. Also its rich coming from you! Remember you believed when you were told not to speak to me because I was feeding information to Shady so he could have you bombed on the the Gaza strip!
FFS Sexy

eddie wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Maybe he should just blanket ban a tonne of people Nems? I know that if I set up a forum, for me and my friends, to discuss news, only to have the forum massively take on a bunch of people, some with views I found beneath contempt- I'd have zero hesitation in banning everyone who I didn't personally want there, or felt was a cause of trouble.

NOT because I'd be against free speech. Because I'm not. But because (hypothetically) I set up a forum, for MY friends, to discuss things MY way, without being pissed off by people I didn't particularly like.

Ben could go on one of many forums with various views. But this is HIS forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. Yet he does, out of his own decency, and he has been immensely tolerant of people giving him all kinds of shit considering he has no obligation to.

What if you wanted to join a forum that wouldn't accept gays?
I thought you promoted to,since of all people?

I'm not really sure of your point there Eds.
I don't understand the last sentence either.

What I am getting at here is there are people who are pissing Ben off, and on a forum he created for his own enjoyment, that is something that should never happen don't you think?

Nems wrote:

SEXY MAMA wrote:

Nems wrote:

You are another one that suffers from a very short memory.

Care to elaborate

Why have you forgotten all the times you flounced?
As a Muslim you should be very disturbed at people being abused over their religious beliefs
but you aren't because the only one you care about is your own.
And before you start off on all the abuse you have had, you have more than held your own
and said some terrible things too.

She has got a point. A big fat huge one.

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:

What if you wanted to join a forum that wouldn't accept gays?
I thought you promoted to,since of all people?

I'm not really sure of your point there Eds.
I don't understand the last sentence either.

What I am getting at here is there are people who are pissing Ben off, and on a forum he created for his own enjoyment, that is something that should never happen don't you think?

All he needs to do is say which people are pissing him off and then ask them to leave.

sassy wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

People seem to be either enormously forgiving or have massively short term memories. As mods on SF, myself, Vic and Nems all agreed on not even allowing VOD and HF on to the forum in the first place.

Absolutely correct!

We did. But the problem wit you is you don't like them so you cant be fair. They did nothing on here to deserve a ban. Veya was either pissed or thick and he was tag teaming with didge. You don't want to acknowledge that because you want them gone. You will be pleased Didge is gone but when he comes back he and Veya will fall out very quickly. So I strongly suggest you don't discuss the treatment of Aboriginal people in Australia or Veya will ban your arse too. You're banned from flap so you cant burn your bridges remember

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:

Eilzel wrote:Maybe he should just blanket ban a tonne of people Nems? I know that if I set up a forum, for me and my friends, to discuss news, only to have the forum massively take on a bunch of people, some with views I found beneath contempt- I'd have zero hesitation in banning everyone who I didn't personally want there, or felt was a cause of trouble.

NOT because I'd be against free speech. Because I'm not. But because (hypothetically) I set up a forum, for MY friends, to discuss things MY way, without being pissed off by people I didn't particularly like.

Ben could go on one of many forums with various views. But this is HIS forum. He doesn't have to answer to anyone. Yet he does, out of his own decency, and he has been immensely tolerant of people giving him all kinds of shit considering he has no obligation to.

What if you wanted to join a forum that wouldn't accept gays?
I thought you promoted to,since of all people?

I'm not really sure of your point there Eds.
I don't understand the last sentence either.

What I am getting at here is there are people who are pissing Ben off, and on a forum he created for his own enjoyment, that is something that should never happen don't you think?

The last sentence was meant to include the word tolerance

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:

What if you wanted to join a forum that wouldn't accept gays?
I thought you promoted to,since of all people?

I'm not really sure of your point there Eds.
I don't understand the last sentence either.

What I am getting at here is there are people who are pissing Ben off, and on a forum he created for his own enjoyment, that is something that should never happen don't you think?

The point is if VOD and HF were gay or gay friendly you would defend them until your last breath, you don't like them so you cant be fair.
If you could be fair you would see Didge should have been banned, but as you are his token gay you wont hear a word against him!

Nems wrote:

sassy wrote:

Absolutely correct!

We did. But the problem wit you is you don't like them so you cant be fair. They did nothing on here to deserve a ban. Veya was either pissed or thick and he was tag teaming with didge. You don't want to acknowledge that because you want them gone. You will be pleased Didge is gone but when he comes back he and Veya will fall out very quickly. So I strongly suggest you don't discuss the treatment of Aboriginal people in Australia or Veya will ban your arse too. You're banned from flap so you cant burn your bridges remember

Are you totally fair and unbiased then Nems? If you don't like them why were you in favour of banning them from SF?

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

I'm not really sure of your point there Eds.
I don't understand the last sentence either.

What I am getting at here is there are people who are pissing Ben off, and on a forum he created for his own enjoyment, that is something that should never happen don't you think?

The point is if VOD and HF were gay or gay friendly you would defend them until your last breath, you don't like them so you cant be fair.
If you could be fair you would see Didge should have been banned, but as you are his token gay you wont hear a word against him!

Yeah, like I defended philagain all those times when he was on here... ... oh... ... oh wait.

SM, remember when you said that Didge had no right to abuse your religion for no reason? You were upset, right? You said it was because he was your mate, but basically you got upset because he was abusing Islam. He did the same with Christianity, day after day after day, and he was helped by others.

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

The point is if VOD and HF were gay or gay friendly you would defend them until your last breath, you don't like them so you cant be fair.
If you could be fair you would see Didge should have been banned, but as you are his token gay you wont hear a word against him!

Yeah, like I defended philagain all those times when he was on here... ... oh... ... oh wait.

You went against Phil when he started on the Thai bride Ting Tong stuff!

eddie wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

I'm not really sure of your point there Eds.
I don't understand the last sentence either.

What I am getting at here is there are people who are pissing Ben off, and on a forum he created for his own enjoyment, that is something that should never happen don't you think?

The last sentence was meant to include the word tolerance

I am all for tolerance Eds. The point you still miss is,

This is Ben's forum.
He did not make a public forum for all to express all views unrestrained.
He made a forum for himself and a few like minded online friends.
He made a forum for his own enjoyment.
Lots of people arrived he didn't know- he let us stay because he's a nice guy.
Many of those people were not like minded.
Many of those people give Ben shit for not doing what they want.
Ben is not enjoying the forum anymore.

How. Is. That. Fair?

Raggamuffin wrote:SM, remember when you said that Didge had no right to abuse your religion for no reason? You were upset, right? You said it was because he was your mate, but basically you got upset because he was abusing Islam. He did the same with Christianity, day after day after day, and he was helped by others.

Sexy only believes in religious freedom of expression for Muslims it seems.

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Yeah, like I defended philagain all those times when he was on here... ... oh... ... oh wait.

You went against Phil when he started on the Thai bride Ting Tong stuff!

Get real. That was last year! Me and phil have rarely seen eye to eye for about 4 years.

Eilzel wrote:

eddie wrote:

The last sentence was meant to include the word tolerance

I am all for tolerance Eds. The point you still miss is,

This is Ben's forum.
He did not make a public forum for all to express all views unrestrained.
He made a forum for himself and a few like minded online friends.
He made a forum for his own enjoyment.
Lots of people arrived he didn't know- he let us stay because he's a nice guy.
Many of those people were not like minded.
Many of those people give Ben shit for not doing what they want.
Ben is not enjoying the forum anymore.

How. Is. That. Fair?

Why didn't he make a private forum then?

Raggamuffin wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

I am all for tolerance Eds. The point you still miss is,

This is Ben's forum.
He did not make a public forum for all to express all views unrestrained.
He made a forum for himself and a few like minded online friends.
He made a forum for his own enjoyment.
Lots of people arrived he didn't know- he let us stay because he's a nice guy.
Many of those people were not like minded.
Many of those people give Ben shit for not doing what they want.
Ben is not enjoying the forum anymore.

How. Is. That. Fair?

Why didn't he make a private forum then?

Irrelevant.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

I know.  I taught at the University of London while doing a post-doctorate fellowship there.  S'wonderful that you were able to do those things.  But, then, why do you want to block others from doing them?

Or is it just because they are black?

I think you're getting me mixed up with someone else. I said that black people have the same opportunities as me. Perhaps someone else said that they shouldn't. Perhaps it's the voices in your head - after all, you're the one who tells them they're victims and that they're not equal to others.

That's not fair, black people should be allowed in because they are black not because they qualified. That is Quills view
He is the most patronising racist anti black person on this forum

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

We did. But the problem wit you is you don't like them so you cant be fair. They did nothing on here to deserve a ban. Veya was either pissed or thick and he was tag teaming with didge. You don't want to acknowledge that because you want them gone. You will be pleased Didge is gone but when he comes back he and Veya will fall out very quickly. So I strongly suggest you don't discuss the treatment of Aboriginal people in Australia or Veya will ban your arse too. You're banned from flap so you cant burn your bridges remember

Are you totally fair and unbiased then Nems? If you don't like them why were you in favour of banning them from SF?

Which was it? Banning or letting them join?

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Are you totally fair and unbiased then Nems? If you don't like them why were you in favour of banning them from SF?

Which was it? Banning or letting them join?

Letting them join. Though that's a technicality. They were banned from ever joining.

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:SM, remember when you said that Didge had no right to abuse your religion for no reason? You were upset, right? You said it was because he was your mate, but basically you got upset because he was abusing Islam. He did the same with Christianity, day after day after day, and he was helped by others.

Sexy only believes in religious freedom of expression for Muslims it seems.

It's just that some people on here object to some groups being bitched about, but when it comes to Christians they really do think they're fair game, and that if any Christians object, they're being "sensitive". Nobody told SM she was being sensitive did they?

They come out with the usual bullshit - oh, but people are only discussing Christianity, they're not abusing it. That's not true. Didge even said that he was going to troll the devotional thread on purpose, and of course nobody said a word. The double standards here are ridiculous. However, they exist, and Ben and his mates will never ever see it any way but their own.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

Sexy only believes in religious freedom of expression for Muslims it seems.

It's just that some people on here object to some groups being bitched about, but when it comes to Christians they really do think they're fair game, and that if any Christians object, they're being "sensitive". Nobody told SM she was being sensitive did they?

They come out with the usual bullshit - oh, but people are only discussing Christianity, they're not abusing it. That's not true. Didge even said that he was going to troll the devotional thread on purpose, and of course nobody said a word, except me. The double standards here are ridiculous. However, they exist, and Ben and his mates will never ever see it any way but their own.

If you don't like it so much then why don't you just stop posting or leave? I'm not being a dick here either, that's a genuine question.

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

Which was it? Banning or letting them join?

Letting them join. Though that's a technicality. They were banned from ever joining.

No it isn't. And you know it. They were unfairly banned and if you had anything about you you would admit that much at least but you wont because they are homophobic

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

Sexy only believes in religious freedom of expression for Muslims it seems.

It's just that some people on here object to some groups being bitched about, but when it comes to Christians they really do think they're fair game, and that if any Christians object, they're being "sensitive". Nobody told SM she was being sensitive did they?

They come out with the usual bullshit - oh, but people are only discussing Christianity, they're not abusing it. That's not true. Didge even said that he was going to troll the devotional thread on purpose, and of course nobody said a word. The double standards here are ridiculous. However, they exist, and Ben and his mates will never ever see it any way but their own.

You are right. None of them can see their own bigotry. They all have to side with those that agree with them. They have to silence dissent so they can continue to spout their own bigotry and hatred.

Eilzel wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's just that some people on here object to some groups being bitched about, but when it comes to Christians they really do think they're fair game, and that if any Christians object, they're being "sensitive". Nobody told SM she was being sensitive did they?

They come out with the usual bullshit - oh, but people are only discussing Christianity, they're not abusing it. That's not true. Didge even said that he was going to troll the devotional thread on purpose, and of course nobody said a word, except me. The double standards here are ridiculous. However, they exist, and Ben and his mates will never ever see it any way but their own.

If you don't like it so much then why don't you just stop posting or leave? I'm not being a dick here either, that's a genuine question.

Well I did almost leave not long back - when four of them were tag-teaming and using my faith against me for their own entertainment. Then I thought - well I shouldn't let them drive me off here.

However, now that two people have been banned after they were baited and mocked for being Christians, that does change things somewhat.

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

Letting them join. Though that's a technicality. They were banned from ever joining.

No it isn't. And you know it. They were unfairly banned and if you had anything about you you would admit that much at least but you wont because they are homophobic

At least you admit they are homophobic. They were banned. By what standards do you claim it is fair or not.

They were ruining the forum for Ben and Veya, the original members here for whom this forum was created. From that pov it is fair.
They were banned on this occasion for doing nothing worse than anyone else by someone they had pissed off. From that pov IT WAS UNFAIR (caps so you don't miss it).

From my pov I don't care and am even happy about it because yes Sherlock, I don't like them.

But you are no beacon of fairness yourself.

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's just that some people on here object to some groups being bitched about, but when it comes to Christians they really do think they're fair game, and that if any Christians object, they're being "sensitive". Nobody told SM she was being sensitive did they?

They come out with the usual bullshit - oh, but people are only discussing Christianity, they're not abusing it. That's not true. Didge even said that he was going to troll the devotional thread on purpose, and of course nobody said a word. The double standards here are ridiculous. However, they exist, and Ben and his mates will never ever see it any way but their own.

You are right. None of them can see their own bigotry. They all have to side with those that agree with them. They have to silence dissent so they can continue to spout their own bigotry and hatred.

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't hold themselves up as paragons of virtue. They simply can't see that the things they accuse others of apply to themselves as well.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

You are right. None of them can see their own bigotry. They all have to side with those that agree with them. They have to silence dissent so they can continue to spout their own bigotry and hatred.

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't hold themselves up as paragons of virtue. They simply can't see that the things they accuse others of apply to themselves as well.

Exactly, the ignorance and arrogance.

Nems wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

I think you're getting me mixed up with someone else. I said that black people have the same opportunities as me. Perhaps someone else said that they shouldn't. Perhaps it's the voices in your head - after all, you're the one who tells them they're victims and that they're not equal to others.

That's not fair, black people should be allowed in because they are black not because they qualified. That is Quills view
He is the most patronising racist anti black person on this forum

I really think that's the view he takes. He has ignored all my posts about actually working for qualifications or actually applying for jobs.

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

No it isn't. And you know it. They were unfairly banned and if you had anything about you you would admit that much at least but you wont because they are homophobic

At least you admit they are homophobic. They were banned. By what standards do you claim it is fair or not.

They were ruining the forum for Ben and Veya, the original members here for whom this forum was created. From that pov it is fair.
They were banned on this occasion for doing nothing worse than anyone else by someone they had pissed off. From that pov IT WAS UNFAIR (caps so you don't miss it).

From my pov I don't care and am even happy about it because yes Sherlock, I don't like them.

But you are no beacon of fairness yourself.

Pfft I believe in free speech for ALL caps in case you missed it.
You don't like them ?! NO shit SHERLOCK!
Exactly what I have been pointing out to you. You only see the world in terms of
gay friendly / not gay friendly.

I may not be fair, but Im not a bigot.
I cant simplify it for you

Eilzel wrote:

Nems wrote:

No it isn't. And you know it. They were unfairly banned and if you had anything about you you would admit that much at least but you wont because they are homophobic

At least you admit they are homophobic. They were banned. By what standards do you claim it is fair or not.

They were ruining the forum for Ben and Veya, the original members here for whom this forum was created. From that pov it is fair.
They were banned on this occasion for doing nothing worse than anyone else by someone they had pissed off. From that pov IT WAS UNFAIR (caps so you don't miss it).

From my pov I don't care and am even happy about it because yes Sherlock, I don't like them.

But you are no beacon of fairness yourself.

What were they actually doing to piss Ben and Veya off though? Are you saying that Veya should be able to abuse anyone he likes, bait people, tell what lies he likes, and ban anyone he likes because it's sort of his forum? If that's the case, maybe it should be made clear that people can be banned just for pissing off the admin. I always got the impression that it was hard to get banned from here, so if that's changed, maybe there should be an announcement.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Nems wrote:

That's not fair, black people should be allowed in because they are black not because they qualified. That is Quills view
He is the most patronising racist anti black person on this forum

I really think that's the view he takes. He has ignored all my posts about actually working for qualifications or actually applying for jobs.

Of course he does he is they typical stereotype thick white elderly yank. Patronising black people gives him a warm fuzzy feeling

Nems wrote:

Eilzel wrote:

At least you admit they are homophobic. They were banned. By what standards do you claim it is fair or not.

They were ruining the forum for Ben and Veya, the original members here for whom this forum was created. From that pov it is fair.
They were banned on this occasion for doing nothing worse than anyone else by someone they had pissed off. From that pov IT WAS UNFAIR (caps so you don't miss it).

From my pov I don't care and am even happy about it because yes Sherlock, I don't like them.

But you are no beacon of fairness yourself.

Pfft I believe in free speech for ALL caps in case you missed it.
You don't like them ?! NO shit SHERLOCK!
Exactly what I have been pointing out to you. You only see the world in terms of
gay friendly / not gay friendly.

I may not be fair, but Im not a bigot.
I cant simplify it for you

Give over with the gay friendly or not BS. I'll remind you again, I have not seen eye to eye with phil for years, you remember those messages we got on SF, all calling me a ----? If I was so biased (purely in terms of sexuality) how would me and phil have got to that point?

You still miss the main thing though- this is not an open forum for anyone to spout vile. Ben and Veya were here in the beginning and it was enjoyable. Why the fuck should they allow people on here who only make them angry and who make it utterly unenjoyable?

Actually answer that last question, please.