Britain loses £1.4bn David Cameron lets tank building contracts go overseas

David Cameron promised UK jobs on back of tank building contracts but now international firms have the tenders

PA
Tanks very much: A Scout specialist vehicle on displayed at Celtic Manor in Newport, south Wales
Tanks for nothing, Mr Cameron... Britain is losing £1.4billion worth of Army vehicle contracts in a deal the PM promised would guarantee jobs in this country.
And outraged Labour peer and retired Royal Navy Admiral Lord West – who uncovered the figure – fears we could be “held to ransom” if we end up relying too heavily on foreign arms makers to equip our armed forces.
The Prime Minister grabbed the headlines by announcing the £3.5billion order for 589 Scout Specialist Vehicles at last year’s high-profile NATO summit in Newport, South Wales.
And he promised at the time that 1,300 jobs across the UK would be secured by the deal.
But now it has emerged 40% of the work will be done by overseas firms.
General Dynamics UK beat a rival bid by UK firm BAE systems for the deal.
And, although the engineering firm is based in South Wales, it is part of the international General Dynamics firm, based in Virginia in the US. BAE is a British-owned London-listed company worth £14billion and has subsidiaries in the US, Australia and Saudi Arabia.
A written Parliamentary question by Gordon Brown’s Minister for Security and Counter-Terrorism Lord West forced the Government to admit 40% of the work will be carried out overseas – meaning British firms will miss out on £1.4billion of contracts.


PA
Barack Obama and David Cameron
The former First Sea Lord said: “I was disappointed with the deal when it didn’t go to a British company.
“This is very unfortunate. We mustn’t do it in any other contracts.
“I’m a great believer in maintaining a defence industrial base in this country because it keeps the high-end, high-skilled jobs, and means we can’t be held to ransom by anyone else.”
Junior Defence Minister Earl Howe made the admission in a written answer slipped out just before ­Parliament’s summer break.
He said: “Many of the vehicles’ key sub-systems are designed and assembled here. Overall, 60% by value will be completed by UK manufacturers.”
Mr Cameron trumpeted the deal before last September’s Nato summit, attended by US president Barack Obama and other world leaders.
The PM said: “I’m delighted that on the eve of the Nato summit, we can announce the biggest single contract for AFVs (armoured fighting vehicles) for the British Army since the 1980s.
“Not only will they be crucial in helping to keep Britain safe, they will also underpin nearly 1,300 jobs across the UK and showcase the strength of the UK’s highly skilled defence sector.”
Experts say the Scouts offer beefed-up intelligence and surveillance and can defend themselves with highly-effective 40mm cannon. The first are expected to be delivered in 2017.
A General Dynamics UK spokeswoman said: “More than 160 UK-based firms form the Scout SV supply chain, with more than 2,600 jobs supported by this programme in the UK.”
The Ministry of Defence said: “We are assembling these vehicles in South Wales, supporting thousands of UK jobs and ensuring our servicemen and women have the very best equipment.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britain-loses-14bn-david-cameron-6364559#ICID=sharebar_twitter


Well, we all know what happens when DC promises something - bugger all!

“Many of the vehicles’ key sub-systems are designed and assembled here. Overall, 60% by value will be completed by UK manufacturers.”
Mr Cameron trumpeted the deal before last September’s Nato summit, attended by US president Barack Obama and other world leaders.
The PM said: “I’m delighted that on the eve of the Nato summit, we can announce the biggest single contract for AFVs (armoured fighting vehicles) for the British Army since the 1980s.
“Not only will they be crucial in helping to keep Britain safe, they will also underpin nearly 1,300 jobs across the UK and showcase the strength of the UK’s highly skilled defence sector.”
Experts say the Scouts offer beefed-up intelligence and surveillance and can defend themselves with highly-effective 40mm cannon. The first are expected to be delivered in 2017.
A General Dynamics UK spokeswoman said: “More than 160 UK-based firms form the Scout SV supply chain, with more than 2,600 jobs supported by this programme in the UK.”
The Ministry of Defence said: “We are assembling these vehicles in South Wales, supporting thousands of UK jobs and ensuring our servicemen and women have the very best equipment.”


Might help if you read the last part

And 40% won't, which is the amount of money referred to.  Help if you read.

The Prime Minister grabbed the headlines by announcing the £3.5billion order for 589 Scout Specialist Vehicles at last year’s high-profile NATO summit in Newport, South Wales.
And he promised at the time that 1,300 jobs across the UK would be secured by the deal.
But now it has emerged 40% of the work will be done by overseas firms.
General Dynamics UK beat a rival bid by UK firm BAE systems for the deal.
And, although the engineering firm is based in South Wales, it is part of the international General Dynamics firm, based in Virginia in the US. BAE is a British-owned London-listed company worth £14billion and has subsidiaries in the US, Australia and Saudi Arabia.
A written Parliamentary question by Gordon Brown’s Minister for Security and Counter-Terrorism Lord West forced the Government to admit 40% of the work will be carried out overseas – meaning British firms will miss out on £1.4billion of contracts.

I did read that part yet the majority of these parts are going to be made in the UK.
Cost effective Sassy

retired Royal Navy Admiral Lord West – who uncovered the figure – fears we could be “held to ransom” if we end up relying too heavily on foreign arms makers to equip our armed forces.

Not very cost effective in those circumstances and not very cost effective when extra jobs would bring in extra taxes.  I expects his mates own the companies.

one opinion
whoopdeedo

Your opinion as a know-nowt - whoopeedoo.  His as a retired navy admiral, rather more knowledgeable.

My opinion as seen shown we are going to havee 60 percent of the contract that is good news for people and jobs.

The 60 percent.

General Dynamics UK are a division of US company - first level contractor.

Lockheed Martin UK are a division of a US company and will supply the Turrets.

Raytheon UK are a division of a US company and will supply the Chassis Power Switch Node.

Thales UK are a division of a French company and will supply the optonics and sighting systems.

The boardrooms in their head offices must have been cock-a-hoop as even more UK national defence work and expertise ends up in the hands of foreign companies who we will have to rely on for years. They have the drawings the blueprints and the technolgy for the whole lot.

I checked the supplier list and even the brake discs are to be supplied by a company in Australia.

BAE Systems got a whisper in their ear after spending near £50 million of private venture noney that they were in the box seat to win the contract with much of the work being done in Newcastle - the home of British tank building.

Jobs are important but not as important as being as self-reliant as possible for our defence equipment.

Irn Bru wrote:The 60 percent.

General Dynamics UK are a division of US company - first level contractor.

Lockheed Martin UK are a division of a US company and will supply the Turrets.

Raytheon UK are a division of a US company and will supply the Chassis Power Switch Node.

Thales UK are a division of a French company and will supply the optonics and sighting systems.

The boardrooms in their head offices must have been cock-a-hoop as even more UK national defence work and expertise ends up in the hands of foreign companies who we will have to rely on for years. They have the drawings the blueprints and the technolgy for the whole lot.

I checked the supplier list and even the brake discs are to be supplied by a company in Australia.

BAE Systems got a whisper in their ear after spending near £50 million of private venture noney that they were in the box seat to win the contract with much of the work being done in Newcastle - the home of British tank building.

Jobs are important but not as important as being as self-reliant as possible for our defence equipment.

Spot on!  Being reliant on Saudi for something to do with our defence really doesn't seem like a good idea.

Irn Bru wrote:The 60 percent.

General Dynamics UK are a division of US company - first level contractor.

Lockheed Martin UK are a division of a US company and will supply the Turrets.

Raytheon UK are a division of a US company and will supply the Chassis Power Switch Node.

Thales UK are a division of a French company and will supply the optonics and sighting systems.

The boardrooms in their head offices must have been cock-a-hoop as even more UK national defence work and expertise ends up in the hands of foreign companies who we will have to rely on for years. They have the drawings the blueprints and the technolgy for the whole lot.

I checked the supplier list and even the brake discs are to be supplied by a company in Australia.

BAE Systems got a whisper in their ear after spending near £50 million of private venture noney that they were in the box seat to win the contract with much of the work being done in Newcastle - the home of British tank building.

Jobs are important but not as important as being as self-reliant as possible for our defence equipment.

No jobs are way moire important. You seem to have this inane few of pride over which origin of country the company is, when it does not matter as without such companies then people have less jobs. You would think you would be greatful we have such companies but instead you piss and moan like the pathetic wet fish that you are.
Many jobs secured that is good news but only left wing twats in the form of the biggest extremist supporters on here going instead throw their dunmies out. Says it all really. Only left wing extremists attemot to put good news as bad news.

I agree with didge

we are the Western Empire
who gives a shit which of our nations it was made in or comes from and None of the companies probably pay tax anyway (or if they do it is some island tax haven)

self reliance in warfare is indeed laughable, first off you ran out of metal after how many days? Your Uranium stock pile will last how long? Oil? Copper? lithium?
and tanks today are a bit like making Horse-mail Armour in WW2.


this article is just scare mongering playing on the Britain's racist tendencies and fear of foreigners.

EU rules require this and the opening up of other public services to tender to overseas and private companies.

No it doesn't

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/449295/A_Brief_Guide_to_the_EU_Public_Contract_Directive_2014_-_July_2015.pdf

Annex A Defence and Security Exclusions.

Post the relevant bits if you have read it Sassy...

I gave you the link, read it yourself, as it is a download you can't C&P it without it going all over the place.  Reading it for yourself might extend your brain a bit.

Waffle...

Cuchulain wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:The 60 percent.

General Dynamics UK are a division of US company - first level contractor.

Lockheed Martin UK are a division of a US company and will supply the Turrets.

Raytheon UK are a division of a US company and will supply the Chassis Power Switch Node.

Thales UK are a division of a French company and will supply the optonics and sighting systems.

The boardrooms in their head offices must have been cock-a-hoop as even more UK national defence work and expertise ends up in the hands of foreign companies who we will have to rely on for years. They have the drawings the blueprints and the technolgy for the whole lot.

I checked the supplier list and even the brake discs are to be supplied by a company in Australia.

BAE Systems got a whisper in their ear after spending near £50 million of private venture noney that they were in the box seat to win the contract with much of the work being done in Newcastle - the home of British tank building.

Jobs are important but not as important as being as self-reliant as possible for our defence equipment.

No jobs are way moire important. You seem to have this inane few of pride over which origin of country the company is, when it does not matter as without such companies then people have less jobs. You would think you would be greatful we have such companies but instead you piss and moan like the pathetic wet fish that you are.
Many jobs secured that is good news but only left wing twats in the form of the biggest extremist supporters on here going instead throw their dunmies out. Says it all really. Only left wing extremists attemot to put good news as bad news.

That is absolute nonsense. If you think that exposing our inventory to foregn suppliers is saving jobs then you are looking at short term answers to long term problems which we already have. Stuff that used to be designed, developed and manufactured in this country in British jobs are now made elswhere simply because of decisions like this. If we needed the tanks then we needed the tanks and they would have been built here anyway with a British company as the prime contractor so where's the risk to the jobs?. Some work would of course have to be sub-contracted out to foreign suppliers because our industrial base is now so low and of course we are not totally self-reliant.
It's so bad now that we can't even sell our state of the art Typhoon jet fighter or our Hawk aircraft or even warships to another country without the specific approval of the USA. Do you think that's a good thing?
That's what it has come to so your argument that this is saving jobs is totaly ridiculous.

Tommy Monk wrote:Waffle...

It isn't.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/27654/dspcr_chapter4_treaty_exempt7oct.pdf

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


No jobs are way moire important. You seem to have this inane few of pride over which origin of country the company is, when it does not matter as without such companies then people have less jobs. You would think you would be greatful we have such companies but instead you piss and moan like the pathetic wet fish that you are.
Many jobs secured that is good news but only left wing twats in the form of the biggest extremist supporters on here going instead throw their dunmies out. Says it all really. Only left wing extremists attemot to put good news as bad news.

That is absolute nonsense. If you think that exposing our inventory to foregn suppliers is saving jobs then you are looking at short term answers to long term problems which we already have. Stuff that used to be designed, developed and manufactured in this country in British jobs are now made elswhere simply because of decisions like this. If we needed the tanks then we needed the tanks and they would have been built here anyway with a British company as the prime contractor  so where's the risk to the jobs?. Some work would of course have to be sub-contracted out to foreign suppliers because our industrial base is now so low and of course we are not totally self-reliant.
It's so bad now that we can't even sell our state of the art Typhoon jet fighter or our Hawk aircraft or even warships to another country without the specific approval of the USA. Do you think that's a good thing?
That's what it has come to so your argument that this is saving jobs is totaly ridiculous.

Well these compabies have been chosen which is not only go to save jobs but create them also.
You just have this very outdated view of the Empire where everything has to be stamped made by a British company. It proves you are living in the past. Even worse the majority of these people working here that are going to be designing and making these parts are British people, so your whole argument is as per usual idiotic which I expect nothing less from a left wing extremist idiot. It does not matter the nationality of the company, and you are thus making the most lamest argument going. I would rather we do not seel our state of the art weaponary to other nations as then we hold the monopoly on them. Arms deals end up to nations who we should not sell them to in many cases. You are just living in a bygone age. So to claim jobs have not been saved when they have an actually jobs are going to be created is why you will never be good at buisness. You have no sense of buisness and hold some Empire based view on, where now we are very much a multination incoorporation country and thank goodness as it has helped bring the economy around in this country

Cuchulain wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


No jobs are way moire important. You seem to have this inane few of pride over which origin of country the company is, when it does not matter as without such companies then people have less jobs. You would think you would be greatful we have such companies but instead you piss and moan like the pathetic wet fish that you are.
Many jobs secured that is good news but only left wing twats in the form of the biggest extremist supporters on here going instead throw their dunmies out. Says it all really. Only left wing extremists attemot to put good news as bad news.

That is absolute nonsense. If you think that exposing our inventory to foregn suppliers is saving jobs then you are looking at short term answers to long term problems which we already have. Stuff that used to be designed, developed and manufactured in this country in British jobs are now made elswhere simply because of decisions like this. If we needed the tanks then we needed the tanks and they would have been built here anyway with a British company as the prime contractor  so where's the risk to the jobs?. Some work would of course have to be sub-contracted out to foreign suppliers because our industrial base is now so low and of course we are not totally self-reliant.
It's so bad now that we can't even sell our state of the art Typhoon jet fighter or our Hawk aircraft or even warships to another country without the specific approval of the USA. Do you think that's a good thing?
That's what it has come to so your argument that this is saving jobs is totaly ridiculous.

Well these compabies have been chosen which is not only go to save jobs but create them also.
You just have this very outdated view of the Empire where everything has to be stamped made by a British company. It proves you are living in the past. Even worse the majority of these people working here that are going to be designing and making these parts are British people, so your whole argument is as per usual idiotic which I expect nothing less from a left wing extremist idiot. It does not matter the nationality of the company, and you are thus making the most lamest argument going. I would rather we do not seel our state of the art weaponary to other nations as then we hold the monopoly on them. Arms deals end up to nations who we should not sell them to in many cases. You are just living in a bygone age. So to claim jobs have not been saved when they have an actually jobs are going to be created is why you will never be good at buisness. You have no sense of buisness and hold some Empire based view on, where now we are very much a multination incoorporation country and thank goodness as it has helped bring the economy around in this country

Tell you what Didge. You go to Paris and sing that song to the French and they will laugh at you. Go to the USA and do the same and they will laugh even louder. You would rather we didn’t sell our state of the art weapons to other nations is that right? We don’t have very much state of the art weapons anymore because of the decisions that you are supporting with the award of this contract to a US company who have sub-contracted most of it to US companies with facilities in the UK and the remainder to companies abroad. The French or the Amercan’s will quite gladly sell it anyway.

Why do you think we have to go to the American’s and ask them if it’s ok to sell the Typhoon jet fighter and other aircraft as well to another country? Why do you think we have to go to the American’s to ask them if it’s ok to sell ships to another country? It’s not just military stuff we are talking about its commercial as well. You put the supply of our defence equipment in the hands of another nation then we lose control of being able to build what we need to defend this country when we want it. They’ve got us over a barrel.

The Vickers plant in Newcastle (the home of British tank building) closed because of this deal costing around 800 jobs. How many were created at the GD plant which is basically an assembly plant that doesn’t really make anything.

Go jump on a plane to the US and plead with the authorities to give back millions of pounds that they have taken from British companies for export violations, millions that could have been used to invest in new projects to benefit our industries. I wonder what they did with all the money they took?

My business sense has carried me well over the years taking me to many countries meeting many people. Never mind though, you stick in producing hot air in that factory of yours where you are obviously still on the clock Monday to Friday and where you are fortunately not in a position to influence anyone on these matters.

Oh, and if you do need to travel to the USA to get our money back – good luck with the Visa application lol.

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Well these compabies have been chosen which is not only go to save jobs but create them also.
You just have this very outdated view of the Empire where everything has to be stamped made by a British company. It proves you are living in the past. Even worse the majority of these people working here that are going to be designing and making these parts are British people, so your whole argument is as per usual idiotic which I expect nothing less from a left wing extremist idiot. It does not matter the nationality of the company, and you are thus making the most lamest argument going. I would rather we do not seel our state of the art weaponary to other nations as then we hold the monopoly on them. Arms deals end up to nations who we should not sell them to in many cases. You are just living in a bygone age. So to claim jobs have not been saved when they have an actually jobs are going to be created is why you will never be good at buisness. You have no sense of buisness and hold some Empire based view on, where now we are very much a multination incoorporation country and thank goodness as it has helped bring the economy around in this country

Tell you what Didge. You go to Paris and sing that song to the French and they will laugh at you. Go to the USA and do the same and they will laugh even louder. You would rather we didn’t sell our state of the art weapons  to other nations is that right? We don’t have very much state of the art weapons anymore because of the decisions that you are supporting with the award of this contract to a US company who have sub-contracted most of it to US companies with facilities in the UK and the remainder to companies abroad. The French or the Amercan’s will quite gladly sell it anyway.
Do not really care what other nations think in that regard, so that is nonsense
Deflective point

Why do you think we have to go to the American’s and ask them if it’s ok to sell the Typhoon jet fighter and other aircraft as well to another country? Why do you think we have to go to the American’s to ask them if it’s ok to sell ships to another country? It’s not just military stuff we are talking about its commercial as well.  You put the supply of our defence equipment in the hands of another nation then we lose control of being able to build what we need to defend this country when we want it.  They’ve got us over a barrel.
Irrlevant also

The Vickers plant in Newcastle (the home of British tank building) closed because of this deal costing around 800 jobs. How many were created at the GD plant which is basically an assembly plant that doesn’t really make anything.
No idea, things change due to costs

Go jump on a plane to the US and plead with the authorities to give back millions of pounds that they have taken from British companies for export violations, millions that could have been used to invest in new projects to benefit our industries.  I wonder what they did with all the money they took?
Why should I, if you are that bothered do so yourself
My business sense has carried me well over the years taking me to many countries meeting many people. Never mind though, you stick in producing hot air in that factory of yours where you are obviously still on the clock Monday to Friday and where you are fortunately not in a position to influence anyone on these matters.
Hearsay

Oh, and if you do need to travel to the USA to get our money back – good luck with the Visa application lol.

So you never actually addressed a single point.
The world is adpating its about time you did also

Cuchulain wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:


Well these compabies have been chosen which is not only go to save jobs but create them also.
You just have this very outdated view of the Empire where everything has to be stamped made by a British company. It proves you are living in the past. Even worse the majority of these people working here that are going to be designing and making these parts are British people, so your whole argument is as per usual idiotic which I expect nothing less from a left wing extremist idiot. It does not matter the nationality of the company, and you are thus making the most lamest argument going. I would rather we do not seel our state of the art weaponary to other nations as then we hold the monopoly on them. Arms deals end up to nations who we should not sell them to in many cases. You are just living in a bygone age. So to claim jobs have not been saved when they have an actually jobs are going to be created is why you will never be good at buisness. You have no sense of buisness and hold some Empire based view on, where now we are very much a multination incoorporation country and thank goodness as it has helped bring the economy around in this country

Tell you what Didge. You go to Paris and sing that song to the French and they will laugh at you. Go to the USA and do the same and they will laugh even louder. You would rather we didn’t sell our state of the art weapons  to other nations is that right? We don’t have very much state of the art weapons anymore because of the decisions that you are supporting with the award of this contract to a US company who have sub-contracted most of it to US companies with facilities in the UK and the remainder to companies abroad. The French or the Amercan’s will quite gladly sell it anyway.
Do not really care what other nations think in that regard, so that is nonsense
Deflective point

Why do you think we have to go to the American’s and ask them if it’s ok to sell the Typhoon jet fighter and other aircraft as well to another country? Why do you think we have to go to the American’s to ask them if it’s ok to sell ships to another country? It’s not just military stuff we are talking about its commercial as well.  You put the supply of our defence equipment in the hands of another nation then we lose control of being able to build what we need to defend this country when we want it.  They’ve got us over a barrel.
Irrlevant also

The Vickers plant in Newcastle (the home of British tank building) closed because of this deal costing around 800 jobs. How many were created at the GD plant which is basically an assembly plant that doesn’t really make anything.
No idea, things change due to costs

Go jump on a plane to the US and plead with the authorities to give back millions of pounds that they have taken from British companies for export violations, millions that could have been used to invest in new projects to benefit our industries.  I wonder what they did with all the money they took?
Why should I, if you are that bothered do so yourself
My business sense has carried me well over the years taking me to many countries meeting many people. Never mind though, you stick in producing hot air in that factory of yours where you are obviously still on the clock Monday to Friday and where you are fortunately not in a position to influence anyone on these matters.
Hearsay

Oh, and if you do need to travel to the USA to get our money back – good luck with the Visa application lol.

So you never actually addressed a single point.
The world is adpating its about time you did also

You just skipped over all that with a few comments and never addressed one of them in any detail because you couldn't.

Try again

Your comments were irrelvant going on about the US and France as your reasoning.
It was daft to be honest.
60% of the work is going to be done in the UK, it matters not what nationality of the companies are. The people that work for them are mainly British and they will have work because of this.
That is good news

Cuchulain wrote:Your comments were irrelvant going on about the US and France as your reasoning.
It was daft to be honest.
60% of the work is going to be done in the UK, it matters not what nationality of the companies are. The people that work for them are mainly British and they will have work because of this.
That is good news

Sorry, but you didn't addrres any of the points in any detail whatsover. 60% is being done in the UK mainly by US subsidaries.

Would you like to say why we are dependant on asking the American's why we need their permission to export equipment that is made and built in the UK?

Why do we have to pay millions to the US government for export violations?

Why did the Vickers plant close?

How many jons were lost and how many were created due to this deal?

Keep prodicing the hot air in your factory Didge because in doing that you are not in a position to influence anyone thank goodness.

Again your points had utterly no relevance
You need to accept that fact
You are going on about other things that have happened before.
We are talking here about how this contract has given many British people worf.
If you want to argue off why Vickers closed, that is a different topic, or export violations.

So stay on topic, hence why your points were deflections.

Grow up there is a good chap as your insults are lame

Night

Cuchulain wrote:Again your points had utterly no relevance
You need to accept that fact
You are going on about other things that have happened before.
We are talking here about how this contract has given many British people worf.
If you want to argue off why Vickers closed, that is a different topic, or export violations.

So stay on topic, hence why your points were deflections.

Grow up there is a good chap as your insults are lame

Night

No, no Didge. They are all relevant and I'm afraid you have not even attempted to answer any of the questions i have put to you.

You just keep singing the same old song in the belief that putting control of our inventory in the hands of another nation somehow makes us safer.

You can bat away the answers 'til your heart is content with irrevant little comments that say nothing of any substance when its clear you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Irn Bru wrote:

Cuchulain wrote:Again your points had utterly no relevance
You need to accept that fact
You are going on about other things that have happened before.
We are talking here about how this contract has given many British people worf.
If you want to argue off why Vickers closed, that is a different topic, or export violations.

So stay on topic, hence why your points were deflections.

Grow up there is a good chap as your insults are lame

Night

No, no Didge. They are all relevant and I'm afraid you have not even attempted to answer any of the questions i have put to you.

You just keep singing the same old song in the belief that putting control of our inventory in the hands of another nation somehow makes us safer.

You can bat away the answers 'til your heart is content with irrevant little comments that say nothing of any substance when its clear you don't have a clue what you are talking about.



 

Let me repeat

They have utterly no relevance.

So you have nothing to add and moan about people having jobs, which is no surprise from a lefty

Game over