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What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:01 pm
First topic message reminder :
Although it may seem an irrelevance in almost wholly secularized Britain, the Church of England still manages to maintain a semblance of moral authority. This was on display last week after Prime Minister David Cameron spoke of a “swarm” of migrants seeking entry to Britain from refugee camps in the French port of Calais. The Right Rev. Trevor Wilmott, the Bishop of Dover, responded sternly: Cameron’s words reflected a “toxicity” in public discourse that leads us to “forget our humanity.”
While it was likely that the refugee crisis troubling Europe would wash up on British shores, the attitude of the government has proved more surprising. Historically, policy has followed public disquiet over immigration. By crafting a narrative for the public to follow, Cameron, who once worked in public relations, has presented another approach.
There have been three significant waves of immigration to Britain since the late 19th century. The first arose from a humanitarian crisis, the pogroms of Tsarist Russia. As Anthony Julius states in Trials of the Diaspora (2010), around 150,000 Jews sought sanctuary in Britain between 1880 and 1905. The second occurred after 1948, when the Labour government granted British citizenship to all living in the Commonwealth. Ministers hoped to relieve labor shortfalls caused by a declining population and the need for post-WWII rebuilding. Initially, only a few thousand males from the West Indies, India, and Pakistan immigrated each year, but numbers increased rapidly in the mid 1950s. David Kynaston writes in Modernity Britain (2014) that two factors pushed this process: the desire to reunify families and the growing affluence of 1950s Britain. Between 1956 and 1961, the number of people arriving each year rose from 46,000 to 135,000. The third wave occurred after 2004, when several former communist nations joined the European Union. Britain offered new EU citizens free movement of labor. Between 2005 and 2009, almost 700,000 workers arrived from Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and the Baltic States.
Each migratory pattern was met with virulent opposition. Julius notes the waves of anti-Semitism that accompanied Jewish refugees. Popular newspapers, music hall acts, political pamphlets, and public meetings proclaimed Jews to be a threat to the racial and public health of the nation and argued that cheap Jewish labor would lower standards of living. Kynaston shows that Commonwealth citizens faced similar discrimination; white Britons led race riots against West Indians in 1958, for example. Racist sentiment surged after the Conservative MP Enoch Powell, in a 1968 speech, claimed that immigration would lead to “rivers of blood” in British streets. Post-colonial writers like Hanif Kureshi, Zadie Smith, Monica Ali, and Andrea Levy depict the development of an institutionalized racism in regards to policing, the justice system, workplace inequality, housing, educational opportunities, popular culture, and sports. Finally, popular tabloid newspapers such as the Daily Mail, the Express and the Sun formed a popular perception that EU migrants were parasites leaching from Britain’s welfare system. This is despite the fact that EU migrants proportionally contribute more to the exchequer than native-born Britons and receive fewer benefits.
Immigration has been the lifeblood of modern Britain. At the 2012 Olympic opening ceremony, Britons rightly celebrated their multi-cultural nation. Historical memory remembers the nation’s status as a safe haven for refugees. Arriving at this juncture has proved difficult and incomplete, however.
When it comes to immigration, British governments have followed rather than led. Popular anti-Semitism led to the passing of the Aliens Act by a Liberal government in 1905. By refusing entry to the indigent, this act targeted penniless Russian Jews fleeing their homes in the face of persecution. Growing unease with migration led a Conservative government to pass the Commonwealth Immigration Act (1962). This act restricted the right of entry for unskilled workers, a category that many Commonwealth immigrants fell into. Labour governments have been no less averse to playing the race card. The Commonwealth Immigration Act (1968), limited the right to immigrate to those who had a parent or grandparent born in Britain. This was a pre-emptive strike against a potential exodus of Indians facing discrimination in Uganda and Kenya. This legislation did not affect another Kenyan minority, the descendants of British colonial settlers. Most recently, the anti-immigrant UK Independence Party has stoked popular discontent. This led in the 2015 general election to both the Conservatives and Labour promising to limit immigration. So committed were the latter to this pledge that it was emblazoned on a commemorative mug.
In reality, the “swarm” of migrants does not exist. As its EU partners regularly point out, Britain fails to take in its fair share of asylum-seekers. Just a few thousand refugees reside in the camps at Calais. By contrast, over 200,000 people applied for asylum in Germany last year. Greece and Italy remain the first port of call for the refugee ships launched daily from North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean. By creating the perception of crisis, Cameron avoids a politically unpopular decision and asserts his authority over the EU in anticipation of the 2016 referendum on British membership.
But another issue lurks in the background. Many refugees are fleeing political violence, whether in North Africa or by the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan and ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Given that British participation in the 2001 war against the Taliban, the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the 2010 bombing of Libya contributed greatly to this instability should Britain – and the US for that matter – take greater responsibility for its actions?
Put simply: for reasons of history, fairness, and responsibility, Britain should do more.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/160209
Although it may seem an irrelevance in almost wholly secularized Britain, the Church of England still manages to maintain a semblance of moral authority. This was on display last week after Prime Minister David Cameron spoke of a “swarm” of migrants seeking entry to Britain from refugee camps in the French port of Calais. The Right Rev. Trevor Wilmott, the Bishop of Dover, responded sternly: Cameron’s words reflected a “toxicity” in public discourse that leads us to “forget our humanity.”
While it was likely that the refugee crisis troubling Europe would wash up on British shores, the attitude of the government has proved more surprising. Historically, policy has followed public disquiet over immigration. By crafting a narrative for the public to follow, Cameron, who once worked in public relations, has presented another approach.
There have been three significant waves of immigration to Britain since the late 19th century. The first arose from a humanitarian crisis, the pogroms of Tsarist Russia. As Anthony Julius states in Trials of the Diaspora (2010), around 150,000 Jews sought sanctuary in Britain between 1880 and 1905. The second occurred after 1948, when the Labour government granted British citizenship to all living in the Commonwealth. Ministers hoped to relieve labor shortfalls caused by a declining population and the need for post-WWII rebuilding. Initially, only a few thousand males from the West Indies, India, and Pakistan immigrated each year, but numbers increased rapidly in the mid 1950s. David Kynaston writes in Modernity Britain (2014) that two factors pushed this process: the desire to reunify families and the growing affluence of 1950s Britain. Between 1956 and 1961, the number of people arriving each year rose from 46,000 to 135,000. The third wave occurred after 2004, when several former communist nations joined the European Union. Britain offered new EU citizens free movement of labor. Between 2005 and 2009, almost 700,000 workers arrived from Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and the Baltic States.
Each migratory pattern was met with virulent opposition. Julius notes the waves of anti-Semitism that accompanied Jewish refugees. Popular newspapers, music hall acts, political pamphlets, and public meetings proclaimed Jews to be a threat to the racial and public health of the nation and argued that cheap Jewish labor would lower standards of living. Kynaston shows that Commonwealth citizens faced similar discrimination; white Britons led race riots against West Indians in 1958, for example. Racist sentiment surged after the Conservative MP Enoch Powell, in a 1968 speech, claimed that immigration would lead to “rivers of blood” in British streets. Post-colonial writers like Hanif Kureshi, Zadie Smith, Monica Ali, and Andrea Levy depict the development of an institutionalized racism in regards to policing, the justice system, workplace inequality, housing, educational opportunities, popular culture, and sports. Finally, popular tabloid newspapers such as the Daily Mail, the Express and the Sun formed a popular perception that EU migrants were parasites leaching from Britain’s welfare system. This is despite the fact that EU migrants proportionally contribute more to the exchequer than native-born Britons and receive fewer benefits.
Immigration has been the lifeblood of modern Britain. At the 2012 Olympic opening ceremony, Britons rightly celebrated their multi-cultural nation. Historical memory remembers the nation’s status as a safe haven for refugees. Arriving at this juncture has proved difficult and incomplete, however.
When it comes to immigration, British governments have followed rather than led. Popular anti-Semitism led to the passing of the Aliens Act by a Liberal government in 1905. By refusing entry to the indigent, this act targeted penniless Russian Jews fleeing their homes in the face of persecution. Growing unease with migration led a Conservative government to pass the Commonwealth Immigration Act (1962). This act restricted the right of entry for unskilled workers, a category that many Commonwealth immigrants fell into. Labour governments have been no less averse to playing the race card. The Commonwealth Immigration Act (1968), limited the right to immigrate to those who had a parent or grandparent born in Britain. This was a pre-emptive strike against a potential exodus of Indians facing discrimination in Uganda and Kenya. This legislation did not affect another Kenyan minority, the descendants of British colonial settlers. Most recently, the anti-immigrant UK Independence Party has stoked popular discontent. This led in the 2015 general election to both the Conservatives and Labour promising to limit immigration. So committed were the latter to this pledge that it was emblazoned on a commemorative mug.
In reality, the “swarm” of migrants does not exist. As its EU partners regularly point out, Britain fails to take in its fair share of asylum-seekers. Just a few thousand refugees reside in the camps at Calais. By contrast, over 200,000 people applied for asylum in Germany last year. Greece and Italy remain the first port of call for the refugee ships launched daily from North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean. By creating the perception of crisis, Cameron avoids a politically unpopular decision and asserts his authority over the EU in anticipation of the 2016 referendum on British membership.
But another issue lurks in the background. Many refugees are fleeing political violence, whether in North Africa or by the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan and ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Given that British participation in the 2001 war against the Taliban, the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the 2010 bombing of Libya contributed greatly to this instability should Britain – and the US for that matter – take greater responsibility for its actions?
Put simply: for reasons of history, fairness, and responsibility, Britain should do more.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/160209
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:23 pm
Nems wrote:Cuchulain wrote:
You have not the first clue as to why people will chose a country, which has been explained many times.
The thing is you are looking for poor excuses not to help.
So you just buy a lot of crap that is spouted in the Mail and Sun about them, which is very obvious.
Don't be a moron, these people are supposed to be fleeing for their lives not choosing a package holiday!
How childish.
It shows how removed you are from understanding the plight of people.
If we went with your view the vast majority of asylum seekers would only be able to claim in Greece, France, Italy etc, as they come in many cases on boats. Many have connections to a country and will head there.
So who are you to say they cannot choose?
Its not your fucking life but theirs
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:25 pm
It's our country!!! Not theirs!!!
Plus it is the rules that they claim refuge in The first safe EU country they arrive in!!!
Plus it is the rules that they claim refuge in The first safe EU country they arrive in!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:26 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:It's our country!!! Not theirs!!!
Plus it is the rules that they claim refuge in The first safe EU country they arrive in!!!
Its not "your" country either as you do not own it.
We have a duty to help others espcially as we have played a part in their situation
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:27 pm
Cuchulain wrote:Tommy Monk wrote:How are they legal dodge?
When they are there illegally and have no legal status or rights to be there... as well as committing criminal acts in breaking into lorries, port and tunnel as well as trespassing etc...
What bit of this is legal!!!???
Still inventing nonsense.
Asylum seekers are not illegal as defined by law.
None of these in calais have claimed asylum so are illegals... as defined by law!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:29 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Cuchulain wrote:
Still inventing nonsense.
Asylum seekers are not illegal as defined by law.
None of these in calais have claimed asylum so are illegals... as defined by law!!!
Wrong
You just keep repeating the same drivel
I can keep posting back its not the last point that wins as you childishly think
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:29 pm
Think you will find, because the Dublin Regulation put too much strain on countries that are on the edge of the EU, it was changed:
In June 2013, the EU adopted a new version of the law that we and others call "Dublin III". Below is a summary of important details contained within it. For a much more detailed and technical review of Dublin III, we highly recommend downloading the information leaflet produced by the European Commission, accessible here (from page 30). In the same document there is an information leaflet intended for unaccompanied minors.
Dublin III in detail
The fact that an individual applies for asylum in one EU country does not mean that he or she will have the application examined there. The member state will initiate a 'Dublin procedure' to determine the responsible state. Dublin III is applied in 32 countries: the 28 EU member states plus Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Liechtenstein.
If the present member state determines that it's responsible for examining the asylum application, then the normal asylum procedure begins. But if another state is found to be responsible, then the authorities will seek to transfer the asylum seeker to that country as soon as possible. Under normal circumstances, this could take up to 11 months. The time depends on whether the applicant is detained or not, if he or she runs from the authorities or if an appeal is launched.
There are several reasons for why a particular EU member state may be responsible for examining an application: the presence of a family member in that country, having been issued a visa or a residence permit there, or whether the person had traveled through another Dublin III country by regular or irregular means.
The member state may decide on its own that it will examine a person's application, even if it is technically not responsible for doing so. Member states are not allowed to transfer asylum seekers to countries where it is established that their human rights could be violated.
Asylum seekers that don't agree with the decision to be sent to another EU country can contest the decision in front of a court or a tribunal. The person can ask to remain in the country until a decision on their appeal is made. Asylum seekers that go to another member state before a Dublin decision is made are very likely to be detained. A person's "risk of absconding" from the authorities is the only legal ground for detaining a person in the Dublin procedure.
At the beginning of a person's Dublin procedure, it is very likely that the state authorities will grant them a "Dublin interview". This is the point in which the authorities must inform the individual applicant about the Dublin III Regulation, rights and obligations. This is also the point in which the individual is asked to describe their journey in Europe, which EU countries they have visited, whether they have family in other EU countries, special needs and other elements that the state authorities will use to determine the responsible member state. This interview has to take place in a language the person can, or is reasonably supposed to, understand. Interpreters should be provided upon request.
Individuals can be reunited in a member state with their mother, father, brother and/or sister if: they are legally residing in a Dublin country; if the applicant is pregnant, has a newborn child, an illness, disability or is elderly; if the applicant is dependent on the assistance of another family member.
http://jrseurope.org/advocacy?LID=834
In June 2013, the EU adopted a new version of the law that we and others call "Dublin III". Below is a summary of important details contained within it. For a much more detailed and technical review of Dublin III, we highly recommend downloading the information leaflet produced by the European Commission, accessible here (from page 30). In the same document there is an information leaflet intended for unaccompanied minors.
Dublin III in detail
The fact that an individual applies for asylum in one EU country does not mean that he or she will have the application examined there. The member state will initiate a 'Dublin procedure' to determine the responsible state. Dublin III is applied in 32 countries: the 28 EU member states plus Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Liechtenstein.
If the present member state determines that it's responsible for examining the asylum application, then the normal asylum procedure begins. But if another state is found to be responsible, then the authorities will seek to transfer the asylum seeker to that country as soon as possible. Under normal circumstances, this could take up to 11 months. The time depends on whether the applicant is detained or not, if he or she runs from the authorities or if an appeal is launched.
There are several reasons for why a particular EU member state may be responsible for examining an application: the presence of a family member in that country, having been issued a visa or a residence permit there, or whether the person had traveled through another Dublin III country by regular or irregular means.
The member state may decide on its own that it will examine a person's application, even if it is technically not responsible for doing so. Member states are not allowed to transfer asylum seekers to countries where it is established that their human rights could be violated.
Asylum seekers that don't agree with the decision to be sent to another EU country can contest the decision in front of a court or a tribunal. The person can ask to remain in the country until a decision on their appeal is made. Asylum seekers that go to another member state before a Dublin decision is made are very likely to be detained. A person's "risk of absconding" from the authorities is the only legal ground for detaining a person in the Dublin procedure.
At the beginning of a person's Dublin procedure, it is very likely that the state authorities will grant them a "Dublin interview". This is the point in which the authorities must inform the individual applicant about the Dublin III Regulation, rights and obligations. This is also the point in which the individual is asked to describe their journey in Europe, which EU countries they have visited, whether they have family in other EU countries, special needs and other elements that the state authorities will use to determine the responsible member state. This interview has to take place in a language the person can, or is reasonably supposed to, understand. Interpreters should be provided upon request.
Individuals can be reunited in a member state with their mother, father, brother and/or sister if: they are legally residing in a Dublin country; if the applicant is pregnant, has a newborn child, an illness, disability or is elderly; if the applicant is dependent on the assistance of another family member.
http://jrseurope.org/advocacy?LID=834
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:35 pm
Both of these articles are from 2015!!!
"...The asylum rules, known as the Dublin Regulation, were first drafted in the early 1990s. They require people seeking refuge to do so in the European country where they first set foot..."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/06/23/uk-europe-migrants-austria-hungary-idUKKBN0P31ZB20150623
"...But instead of applying for refugee status in the country where he landed, as European law dictates, Asefaw made his way to just south of the Austrian border. He hoped to cross into Austria and travel through Germany to Sweden, where his brother lives. There, he planned to identify himself to authorities and request asylum..."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/10/us-europe-migrants-asylum-insight-idUSKBN0OQ0EU20150610
Those in calais have either claimed asylum in another EU country and therefore have no business being in calais trying to illegally enter the UK... or they have not claimed asylum in any EU country so therefore are illegal immigrants and economic migrants.
"...The asylum rules, known as the Dublin Regulation, were first drafted in the early 1990s. They require people seeking refuge to do so in the European country where they first set foot..."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/06/23/uk-europe-migrants-austria-hungary-idUKKBN0P31ZB20150623
"...But instead of applying for refugee status in the country where he landed, as European law dictates, Asefaw made his way to just south of the Austrian border. He hoped to cross into Austria and travel through Germany to Sweden, where his brother lives. There, he planned to identify himself to authorities and request asylum..."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/10/us-europe-migrants-asylum-insight-idUSKBN0OQ0EU20150610
Those in calais have either claimed asylum in another EU country and therefore have no business being in calais trying to illegally enter the UK... or they have not claimed asylum in any EU country so therefore are illegal immigrants and economic migrants.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:37 pm
Still not grasping how many have back tracked on this Toimmy
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:39 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:It's our country!!! Not theirs!!!
Plus it is the rules that they claim refuge in The first safe EU country they arrive in!!!
Of course they are. If they did then Britain would have signed up to take its share.
It'd for purely economic reasons they head for the UK
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:41 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Both of these articles are from 2015!!!
"...The asylum rules, known as the Dublin Regulation, were first drafted in the early 1990s. They require people seeking refuge to do so in the European country where they first set foot..."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/06/23/uk-europe-migrants-austria-hungary-idUKKBN0P31ZB20150623
"...But instead of applying for refugee status in the country where he landed, as European law dictates, Asefaw made his way to just south of the Austrian border. He hoped to cross into Austria and travel through Germany to Sweden, where his brother lives. There, he planned to identify himself to authorities and request asylum..."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/10/us-europe-migrants-asylum-insight-idUSKBN0OQ0EU20150610
Those in calais have either claimed asylum in another EU country and therefore have no business being in calais trying to illegally enter the UK... or they have not claimed asylum in any EU country so therefore are illegal immigrants and economic migrants.
Don't give a shit when they were from, the authors had obviously not educated themselves about the updates on the Dublim Regulations (which actually were brought into place to make sure that immigrants and refugess did not register in more than one country, which would cause chaos). And not registering in another country does not make them illegal or economic.
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:43 pm
They are black Africans who should be sent back to the African union to process and look after.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:43 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:They are black Africans who should be sent back to the African union to process and look after.
Wrong they have every right to seek asylum
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:45 pm
sassy wrote:Tommy Monk wrote:Both of these articles are from 2015!!!
"...The asylum rules, known as the Dublin Regulation, were first drafted in the early 1990s. They require people seeking refuge to do so in the European country where they first set foot..."
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/06/23/uk-europe-migrants-austria-hungary-idUKKBN0P31ZB20150623
"...But instead of applying for refugee status in the country where he landed, as European law dictates, Asefaw made his way to just south of the Austrian border. He hoped to cross into Austria and travel through Germany to Sweden, where his brother lives. There, he planned to identify himself to authorities and request asylum..."
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/10/us-europe-migrants-asylum-insight-idUSKBN0OQ0EU20150610
Those in calais have either claimed asylum in another EU country and therefore have no business being in calais trying to illegally enter the UK... or they have not claimed asylum in any EU country so therefore are illegal immigrants and economic migrants.
Don't give a shit when they were from, the authors had obviously not educated themselves about the updates on the Dublim Regulations (which actually were brought into place to make sure that immigrants and refugess did not register in more than one country, which would cause chaos). And not registering in another country does not make them illegal or economic.
Piss off Sassy you idiot... they are still required to declare themselves and claim asylum otherwise they have no legal right to be there.
Therefore they are illegals!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:50 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:sassy wrote:
Don't give a shit when they were from, the authors had obviously not educated themselves about the updates on the Dublim Regulations (which actually were brought into place to make sure that immigrants and refugess did not register in more than one country, which would cause chaos). And not registering in another country does not make them illegal or economic.
Piss off Sassy you idiot... they are still required to declare themselves and claim asylum otherwise they have no legal right to be there.
Therefore they are illegals!!!
Wrong again.
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:54 pm
So what legal status do these people have if they are in The country illegally and have not declared themselves or claimed asylum...!?
Take your time...
Take your time...
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:54 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:So what legal status do these people have if they are in The country illegally and have not declared themselves or claimed asylum...!?
Take your time...
Rehasing the same drivel yet again
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:56 pm
Still waiting for an answer...!!!
You haven't answered this simple question throughout this whole thread!!!
You haven't answered this simple question throughout this whole thread!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:58 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Still waiting for an answer...!!!
You haven't answered this simple question throughout this whole thread!!!
Its been answered as to the staus of an individual
You are just very stupid
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:02 pm
They have no legal status until they claim asylum... these ones in calais are either illegal as they have not claimed asylum or they are legally there as asylum seekers but still illegally trying to break into lorries,port and tunnel etc and into the UK... this makes them criminals who need to be arrested and prosecuted.
THey have no legal status doing criminal behaviour and no legal right to access to UK.
THey have no legal status doing criminal behaviour and no legal right to access to UK.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:08 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:They have no legal status until they claim asylum... these ones in calais are either illegal as they have not claimed asylum or they are legally there as asylum seekers but still illegally trying to break into lorries,port and tunnel etc and into the UK... this makes them criminals who need to be arrested and prosecuted.
THey have no legal status doing criminal behaviour and no legal right to access to UK.
More babble
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:11 pm
Simple fact and logic dodge... I know you don't like either of these things...!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:15 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Simple fact and logic dodge... I know you don't like either of these things...!
No just pure bullshit on your part
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:41 pm
Still no answers then dodgey boy!!!???
What legal status do they have if not already claimed asylum and committing criminal offences in calais...!?
What legal status do they have if not already claimed asylum and committing criminal offences in calais...!?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:47 pm
Clearly delusional.
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 5:57 pm
Answer the question!?
You said they were completely legal.
How are they there legally if not already declared themselves to authorities and claimed asylum!?
Plus the fact that they are committing crimes by breaking into lorries, port and tunnel and committing criminal damage and trespassing!!!
You said they were completely legal.
How are they there legally if not already declared themselves to authorities and claimed asylum!?
Plus the fact that they are committing crimes by breaking into lorries, port and tunnel and committing criminal damage and trespassing!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:03 pm
They have been branded "marauders" and a "swarm" by the British government, but the migrants currently landing on European shores are fleeing nations where executions, torture, rape and poverty are commonplace.
"The movement of people across the globe is primarily a consequence of the vast inequalities that exist and which express themselves both in terms of sheer poverty but also wars and political instability," Don Flynn, director of the Migrants Right Network, told the Huff Post UK.After David Cameron branded refugees in Calais a "swarm", his defence secretary following in quick succession by referring to African migrants as "marauders" on Monday, many people might have lost sight of what thousands of displaced people are actually fleeing.
One-third of all those who claim asylum in the UK have been victims of torture, one charity claims, while hundreds of thousands flee war-ravaged, fractured homelands, making for Europe in a bid to save their families from rape, human rights abuses and death.
"The current situation at the external borders of Europe is first and foremost a product of a humanitarian crisis," Flynn tells The Huffington Post UK, "and it will not be solved or even managed down to a tolerable level by what are essential tough cop police measures.
"But we should not let the politicians lead the public mood into a fit of pessimism and despair that anything at all can be done about the situation," he adds."Europe is a region of 500 million people and, despite its recent economic travails, it remains rich and resourceful enough to attend to crises which sweep a tiny fraction of that number into the insecurities of refugee existence."According to the UNHCR, the highest number of refugees coming into Europe by sea are those from Syria (34%), Afghanistan (12%), Eritrea (12%), Somalia (8%) and Nigeria (8%). Below we look at what is currently going on in those countries.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/10/migrant-crisis-cameron-hammond_n_7964522.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
Much more to read on the link
"The movement of people across the globe is primarily a consequence of the vast inequalities that exist and which express themselves both in terms of sheer poverty but also wars and political instability," Don Flynn, director of the Migrants Right Network, told the Huff Post UK.After David Cameron branded refugees in Calais a "swarm", his defence secretary following in quick succession by referring to African migrants as "marauders" on Monday, many people might have lost sight of what thousands of displaced people are actually fleeing.
One-third of all those who claim asylum in the UK have been victims of torture, one charity claims, while hundreds of thousands flee war-ravaged, fractured homelands, making for Europe in a bid to save their families from rape, human rights abuses and death.
The UK takes one of the lowest number of Syrians fleeing civil war
"The current situation at the external borders of Europe is first and foremost a product of a humanitarian crisis," Flynn tells The Huffington Post UK, "and it will not be solved or even managed down to a tolerable level by what are essential tough cop police measures.
"But we should not let the politicians lead the public mood into a fit of pessimism and despair that anything at all can be done about the situation," he adds."Europe is a region of 500 million people and, despite its recent economic travails, it remains rich and resourceful enough to attend to crises which sweep a tiny fraction of that number into the insecurities of refugee existence."According to the UNHCR, the highest number of refugees coming into Europe by sea are those from Syria (34%), Afghanistan (12%), Eritrea (12%), Somalia (8%) and Nigeria (8%). Below we look at what is currently going on in those countries.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/10/migrant-crisis-cameron-hammond_n_7964522.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
Much more to read on the link
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:07 pm
Asylum seekers are people who come to the UK fleeing persecution, conflict and violence, including rape, in their own countries. They flee, sometimes having lost their family and all their possessions, because they have nowhere else to go. They come to the UK to seek sanctuary.
At the end of 2007, there were more than 16 million refugees in the world. From Iraq alone there were more than two million refugees. Most refugees took shelter in the world’s poorest countries. About 14% are in Europe. Just 25,000 (2%) refugees are in the UK.
Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants or economic migrants. They are not ‘taking British jobs’ – they are not allowed to work. They are also not eligible for council housing, although some may be ‘dispersed’ around the country to places where accommodation is standing empty.
http://www.asylum-welcome.org/index.php/why-we-help
At the end of 2007, there were more than 16 million refugees in the world. From Iraq alone there were more than two million refugees. Most refugees took shelter in the world’s poorest countries. About 14% are in Europe. Just 25,000 (2%) refugees are in the UK.
Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants or economic migrants. They are not ‘taking British jobs’ – they are not allowed to work. They are also not eligible for council housing, although some may be ‘dispersed’ around the country to places where accommodation is standing empty.
http://www.asylum-welcome.org/index.php/why-we-help
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:22 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Answer the question!?
You said they were completely legal.
How are they there legally if not already declared themselves to authorities and claimed asylum!?
Plus the fact that they are committing crimes by breaking into lorries, port and tunnel and committing criminal damage and trespassing!!!
Answer the question... how are those in calais legal!?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:27 pm
Cuchulain wrote:Asylum seekers are people who come to the UK fleeing persecution, conflict and violence, including rape, in their own countries. They flee, sometimes having lost their family and all their possessions, because they have nowhere else to go. They come to the UK to seek sanctuary.
At the end of 2007, there were more than 16 million refugees in the world. From Iraq alone there were more than two million refugees. Most refugees took shelter in the world’s poorest countries. About 14% are in Europe. Just 25,000 (2%) refugees are in the UK.
Asylum seekers are not illegal immigrants or economic migrants. They are not ‘taking British jobs’ – they are not allowed to work. They are also not eligible for council housing, although some may be ‘dispersed’ around the country to places where accommodation is standing empty.
http://www.asylum-welcome.org/index.php/why-we-help
The answer has been provided, now unless you have anything to prove otherwise, stop wasting everyones time with your utter drivel
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 6:39 pm
How are those in calais legal???
Why can't you answer the question!!!???
Why can't you answer the question!!!???
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:09 pm
Yet more drivel, I can keep this up as long as you like Tommy.
You have nothing as per usual.
Next
You have nothing as per usual.
Next
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:46 pm
Dodge... you said the ones in calais are completely legal... I'm asking you to tell us their current status as defined by law, and how their criminal behaviour of breaking into lorries, port and tunnel, criminal damage and trespassing etc and trying to illegally enter the UK is also legal...!!!???
Your claim is clear to see... please explain it...!?
Your claim is clear to see... please explain it...!?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:48 pm
Still nothing to counter the facts
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:04 pm
Why won't you answer the questions dodge!!!???
Most amusing!!!
Most amusing!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:05 pm
Still nothing, oh well, I can only hope
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:18 pm
Yes... still you have nothing by way of answers...!!!
And you definately need hope if you are trying to find some answers that don't completely undermine your own previous claims!!!
And you definately need hope if you are trying to find some answers that don't completely undermine your own previous claims!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:19 pm
Still no evidence, sigh.
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:23 pm
Article 31
Article 31 of the 1951 Refugee Convention prohibits states from penalising a refugee for illegal entry when the purpose of their entry is to claim asylum.
Article 31 of the 1951 Refugee Convention prohibits states from penalising a refugee for illegal entry when the purpose of their entry is to claim asylum.
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:29 pm
I'm asking you to tell me the current legal status of those in calais!!!???
You claimed they were completely legal!!!
Explain yourself!!!
You claimed they were completely legal!!!
Explain yourself!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:29 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:I'm asking you to tell me the current legal status of those in calais!!!???
You claimed they were completely legal!!!
Explain yourself!!!
They are legal
Article 31
Article 31 of the 1951 Refugee Convention prohibits states from penalising a refugee for illegal entry when the purpose of their entry is to claim asylum.
A refugee is a person who ‘owing to a well-founded fear of being persecuted for reasons of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion, is outside the country of his nationality, and is unable to or, owing to such fear, is unwilling to avail himself of the protection of that country…’ (Definition quoted from the 1951 Refugee Convention)
Not wasting anymore time with idiocy
Its not my fault Tommy you are stupid.
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:35 pm
So what's their current status as defined by law...!!!???
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Irn Bru Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:49 am
Tommy Monk wrote:So what's their current status as defined by law...!!!???
Legal status is atributed to a migrant entering this country as soon as they apply for political asylum.
A Refugee is someone who has applied for political asylum and has had a positive response in that it has been granted and they have the right to remain in the UK.
http://www.unesco.org/most/migration/glossary_asylum_seeker.htm
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:46 am
So what is the current legal status of those in calais???
I keep asking the question... still nobody answering!!!
I keep asking the question... still nobody answering!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:47 am
Tommy Monk wrote:So what is the current legal status of those in calais???
I keep asking the question... still nobody answering!!!
Look you brainless dummy, they are refiugees, that is their legal status.
Not only has Irn provided the facts but so have I.
Stop ruining every date with your stupid lols and ignorance, its that simple.
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:56 am
So They have claimed asylum already in France...!?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:57 am
Yes Many have and some are coming over her to claim assylum.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:22 am
Only those who have already made a claim of asylum have any legal status and then only in The country they have made their claim, and are purely criminals and breaching their conditions of asylum applications by trying to break into lorries, port and tunnel and committing other criminal offences etc... they also wouldn't be living in the jungle as they would have been given housing provisions.
All of those at calais and not already claimed asylum have no legal status or right to be there, They are currently classed as illegal immigrants and criminals and should be getting arrested and prosecuted for their criminal activities, prosecuted, rounded up and removed.
All of those at calais and not already claimed asylum have no legal status or right to be there, They are currently classed as illegal immigrants and criminals and should be getting arrested and prosecuted for their criminal activities, prosecuted, rounded up and removed.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:50 am
And we are back to Tommy rehasing the same bollocks.
One endless cycle of drivel
One endless cycle of drivel
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:55 am
It's the truth dodge, the facts, as defined by law.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:05 am
Tommy Monk wrote:It's the truth dodge, the facts, as defined by law.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
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