What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain

by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

Although it may seem an irrelevance in almost wholly secularized Britain, the Church of England still manages to maintain a semblance of moral authority. This was on display last week after Prime Minister David Cameron spoke of a “swarm” of migrants seeking entry to Britain from refugee camps in the French port of Calais. The Right Rev. Trevor Wilmott, the Bishop of Dover, responded sternly: Cameron’s words reflected a “toxicity” in public discourse that leads us to “forget our humanity.”

While it was likely that the refugee crisis troubling Europe would wash up on British shores, the attitude of the government has proved more surprising. Historically, policy has followed public disquiet over immigration. By crafting a narrative for the public to follow, Cameron, who once worked in public relations, has presented another approach.

There have been three significant waves of immigration to Britain since the late 19th century. The first arose from a humanitarian crisis, the pogroms of Tsarist Russia. As Anthony Julius states in Trials of the Diaspora (2010), around 150,000 Jews sought sanctuary in Britain between 1880 and 1905. The second occurred after 1948, when the Labour government granted British citizenship to all living in the Commonwealth. Ministers hoped to relieve labor shortfalls caused by a declining population and the need for post-WWII rebuilding. Initially, only a few thousand males from the West Indies, India, and Pakistan immigrated each year, but numbers increased rapidly in the mid 1950s. David Kynaston writes in Modernity Britain (2014) that two factors pushed this process: the desire to reunify families and the growing affluence of 1950s Britain. Between 1956 and 1961, the number of people arriving each year rose from 46,000 to 135,000. The third wave occurred after 2004, when several former communist nations joined the European Union. Britain offered new EU citizens free movement of labor. Between 2005 and 2009, almost 700,000 workers arrived from Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and the Baltic States.

Each migratory pattern was met with virulent opposition. Julius notes the waves of anti-Semitism that accompanied Jewish refugees. Popular newspapers, music hall acts, political pamphlets, and public meetings proclaimed Jews to be a threat to the racial and public health of the nation and argued that cheap Jewish labor would lower standards of living. Kynaston shows that Commonwealth citizens faced similar discrimination; white Britons led race riots against West Indians in 1958, for example. Racist sentiment surged after the Conservative MP Enoch Powell, in a 1968 speech, claimed that immigration would lead to “rivers of blood” in British streets. Post-colonial writers like Hanif Kureshi, Zadie Smith, Monica Ali, and Andrea Levy depict the development of an institutionalized racism in regards to policing, the justice system, workplace inequality, housing, educational opportunities, popular culture, and sports. Finally, popular tabloid newspapers such as the Daily Mail, the Express and the Sun formed a popular perception that EU migrants were parasites leaching from Britain’s welfare system. This is despite the fact that EU migrants proportionally contribute more to the exchequer than native-born Britons and receive fewer benefits.

Immigration has been the lifeblood of modern Britain. At the 2012 Olympic opening ceremony, Britons rightly celebrated their multi-cultural nation. Historical memory remembers the nation’s status as a safe haven for refugees. Arriving at this juncture has proved difficult and incomplete, however.

When it comes to immigration, British governments have followed rather than led. Popular anti-Semitism led to the passing of the Aliens Act by a Liberal government in 1905. By refusing entry to the indigent, this act targeted penniless Russian Jews fleeing their homes in the face of persecution. Growing unease with migration led a Conservative government to pass the Commonwealth Immigration Act (1962). This act restricted the right of entry for unskilled workers, a category that many Commonwealth immigrants fell into. Labour governments have been no less averse to playing the race card. The Commonwealth Immigration Act (1968), limited the right to immigrate to those who had a parent or grandparent born in Britain. This was a pre-emptive strike against a potential exodus of Indians facing discrimination in Uganda and Kenya. This legislation did not affect another Kenyan minority, the descendants of British colonial settlers. Most recently, the anti-immigrant UK Independence Party has stoked popular discontent. This led in the 2015 general election to both the Conservatives and Labour promising to limit immigration. So committed were the latter to this pledge that it was emblazoned on a commemorative mug.

In reality, the “swarm” of migrants does not exist. As its EU partners regularly point out, Britain fails to take in its fair share of asylum-seekers. Just a few thousand refugees reside in the camps at Calais. By contrast, over 200,000 people applied for asylum in Germany last year. Greece and Italy remain the first port of call for the refugee ships launched daily from North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean. By creating the perception of crisis, Cameron avoids a politically unpopular decision and asserts his authority over the EU in anticipation of the 2016 referendum on British membership.

But another issue lurks in the background. Many refugees are fleeing political violence, whether in North Africa or by the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan and ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Given that British participation in the 2001 war against the Taliban, the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the 2010 bombing of Libya contributed greatly to this instability should Britain – and the US for that matter – take greater responsibility for its actions?

Put simply: for reasons of history, fairness, and responsibility, Britain should do more.

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http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/160209

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:35 pm

Sorry but I find so many views poor, like I say, I am from immigrant parents and find such views disgusting, espcially how many of my family have helped this bloody country and like I say some did not even live here.
Ungrateful tossers.

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:05 pm

firstly didge...dont make the mistake of thinking the conditions that existed when your parents immigrated are the same as conditions now...

nor....did your parents come representative of a culture, a significant proportion of which are bent on doing us harm.

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:06 pm

and...as for they come here and work

Minority ethnic workers in UK twice as likely to be unemployed as whites
DWP figures show jobless rate of 45% for young black, Pakistani and Bangladeshi workers with white figure at 19%

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/08/minority-ethnic-workers-more-often-unemployed

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:08 pm

of course I do realise that the white british are unemployed becasue they are all idle useless scroungers, whereas the "minorities" are unemployed SOLEY because they are discriminated against.

well thats the lefties view any way.....

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:13 pm

victorismyhero wrote:firstly didge...dont make the mistake of thinking the conditions that existed when your parents immigrated are the same as conditions now...

nor....did your parents come representative of a culture, a significant proportion of which are bent on doing us harm.

Sorry Victor I find all this talk vile and disgusting full stop.

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:15 pm

victorismyhero wrote:and...as for they come here and work

Minority ethnic workers in UK twice as likely to be unemployed as whites
DWP figures show jobless rate of 45% for young black, Pakistani and Bangladeshi workers with white figure at 19%

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/08/minority-ethnic-workers-more-often-unemployed

So not racial at all then Victor?
Most of theses will have been here many generations also, which I thought you said was okay because they had parents pay into the system?

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:22 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:and...as for they come here and work

Minority ethnic workers in UK twice as likely to be unemployed as whites
DWP figures show jobless rate of 45% for young black, Pakistani and Bangladeshi workers with white figure at 19%

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/08/minority-ethnic-workers-more-often-unemployed

So not racial at all then Victor?
~~Most~~ some of theses will have been here many generations also, which I thought you said was okay because they had parents pay into the system?

there I have corrected it for you...

so you are suggesting that of the 10's of thousands that landed last year have all been quietly absorbed into gainful employment.....I think not

I would say most likely that those who have been here "generations" have similar , (but likely somewhat elevated) unemployment rates as the whites

the rest will be "new guys"

it would be intersting to see the stats for "white" immigrants too...(eastern europeans etc)

and stop playing the race game.........when a discrepancy occurs there has to be some way of defining it....

or do you suggest we simply stop recording such things....

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:23 pm

which is akin to playing the ostrich.....

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:26 pm

victorismyhero wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

So not racial at all then Victor?
~~Most~~ some of theses will have been here many generations also, which I thought you said was okay because they had parents pay into the system?

there I have corrected it for you...

so you are suggesting that of the 10's of thousands that landed last year have all been quietly absorbed into gainful employment.....I think not

I would say most likely that those who have been here "generations" have similar , (but likely somewhat elevated) unemployment rates as the whites

the rest will be "new guys"

it would be intersting to see the stats for "white" immigrants too...(eastern europeans etc)

and stop playing the race game.........when a discrepancy occurs there has to be some way of defining it....

or do you suggest we simply stop recording such things....

No most of the black youths are second to third generation, so by your argument they are fine and to use them is making yet again a poor racial argument neglecting the discrminatinon in the first place which places many in a disadvantaged positions.
Again I find it disgusting Victor as you are ignoring many factors here and just now going off Asian and Black.

I frankly do not care for your views on this, they are so utterly backward its beyond belief.
You are bringing race into this, as I thought these people were all British or are you moving the goal posts when you choose to do so?
So are you claiming its because of their culture or skin tone their umeployment rates are higher within these groups?
Come on I am on ears on that bollocks?

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:39 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:

there I have corrected it for you...

so you are suggesting that of the 10's of thousands that landed last year have all been quietly absorbed into gainful employment.....I think not

I would say most likely that those who have been here "generations" have similar , (but likely somewhat elevated) unemployment rates as the whites

the rest will be "new guys"

it would be intersting to see the stats for "white" immigrants too...(eastern europeans etc)

and stop playing the race game.........when a discrepancy occurs there has to be some way of defining it....

or do you suggest we simply stop recording such things....

No most of the black youths are second to third generation,

and you know this for sure ...how exactly....

so by your argument they are fine and to use them is making yet again a poor racial argument neglecting the discrminatinon in the first place which places many in a disadvantaged positions.
Again I find it disgusting Victor as you are ignoring many factors here and just now going off Asian and Black.

I frankly do not care for your views on this, they are so utterly backward its beyond belief.
You are bringing race into this, as I thought these people were all British or are you moving the goal posts when you choose to do so?
So are you claiming its because of their culture or skin tone their umeployment rates are higher within these groups?
Come on I am on ears on that bollocks?

no you are bringing race into it (or rather using race as a sledgehammer) I'm only repeating what the official stats show...

AND.....even IF the majority are seciond generation what does that prove???

IF our youngsters are idle uselsees scroungers...why cant the same label be applied to them???

you are the one that is always telling us how good te "immigrants" are at taking ALL those jobs that our idle scroungers wont do...presumably this enthusiasm evaporates then after a couple of generations???

see didge this is what the liberalists do...scream "race" when challenged, but the reality is that it would not matter if these people were white europeans ...as it happens fate decrees they are not...but THAT is irrelevant, the same principles would apply....

it would make NO difference to me or my arguments if these people were frenchmen germans or greeks, what part of "the colour of their skin, their country of origin or whether they worship thier deity by prancing naked round a golden effigy of the flying spaghetti monster matters not" do you fail to see???

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:42 pm

The way YOU are using "race" is just an excuse to hide away from some uncomfortable facts ...to which you have not solution

you feel we should "do this" or "do that" and that "this is right and proper"

yet you have zero ideas of how exactly this, that or the other shall be accomplished or funded and seemingly dont give a flying f**k about the consequences of it all....

which consequences of course will fall squarely on the shoulders of those least able to afford to pay for your utopia....

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:47 pm

I'll tell you what Didge....

when the tory boys finally get a grip and make 100% sure they are collecting ALL taxes both literally AND morally due to this country...

AND

you find a sure and certain way of dealing with those intent on harm

THEM I will withdraw my objections.....

(i might still prefer the sound of church bells rather than the wailing wally, and I still might not particularly "like them (but then as you might have guessed i dont like quite a range of "others"...which includes our "own "chav" types....) but non the less i will not speak against them fleeing here.....

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:47 pm

OMG this is why a person from the country has little understanding.
My parents moved from Canada to Northern Ireland and my father could get no work because he was a Catholic and ended up joining the British Army and then moved to the UK. growing up we endured much discrmination for being Irish and labelled as terrorists just for being of an Irish ethnicity. We had very little and do not have the handouts that are given today, you had to work or you would go without. You have utterly no comprehension of discrmination and prejudice the part it plays within society Victor and that is why I take your views with a pinch of salt, they are born from a White Middle Class ethos.

The vast majority of immigrants are in employment, 7 million foreign born would tell you need to look at your maths again and compare this to the amount unemployed claiming benefits or that. The fact is this country is functioning because of these migrants where again many companies and systems like the NHS whould not function without. Its a prejudice and sterotype within society that disadvantages many minority groups, even more so in employment. You are being as poor as Tommy who just sees some stats and fails to factor them.

Again I ask what has Asian and black if they are British got to do with anything other than a racial point of view?

I ask why is this then a factor for you to argue off immigrants coming to this country?

Have you any comprehension on how for example Irish and Itallian immigrants were treated in the 19th and early 20th century in America and seen very much as you are casting those coming here today?

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:49 pm

oh ...and before you say owt...I dont HAVE to like ANYONE...

anyone wanting me to like em HAS to prove their worth....which is why I "like" YOU

(cos you are an argumentative old sod Laughing

)

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:50 pm

victorismyhero wrote:I'll tell you what Didge....

when the tory boys finally get a grip and make 100% sure they are collecting ALL taxes both literally AND morally due to this country...

AND

you find a sure and certain way of dealing with those intent on harm

THEM I will withdraw my objections.....

(i might still prefer the sound of church bells rather than the wailing wally, and I still might not particularly "like them (but then as you might have guessed i dont like quite a range of "others"...which includes our "own "chav" types....) but non the less i will not speak against them fleeing here.....

You can do as you please with your views, I neither wish you to do anything but think properly about what you are claiming because it has utterly no comprehension of any understanding on immigration in this country or in others.

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:52 pm

victorismyhero wrote:oh ...and before you say owt...I dont HAVE to like ANYONE...

anyone wanting me to like em HAS to prove their worth....which is why I "like" YOU

(cos you are an argumentative old sod )

Victor I respect you the most on this forum, but will never ever agree on your views on this

There is a vast difference between us within this, in that I have first hand experince coming from an immigrant family that faced prejudice.

Laughing

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:59 pm

Cuchulain wrote:OMG this is why a person from the country has little understanding.
My parents moved from Canada to Northern Ireland

Yea gods...why?? they moved from gods own country (after wales of course) ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

and my father could get no work because he was a Catholic and ended up joining the British Army and then moved to the UK. growing up we endured much discrmination for being Irish and labelled as terrorists just for being of an Irish ethnicity.

surely they were canadian?? dunno???

We had very little and do not have the handouts that are given today, you had to work or you would go without. You have utterly no comprehension of discrmination and prejudice the part it plays within society Victor and that is why I take your views with a pinch of salt, they are born from a White Middle Class ethos.

The vast majority of immigrants are in employment, (are they?? I have no proof...) 7 million foreign born would tell you need to look at your maths again and compare this to the amount unemployed claiming benefits or that. The fact is this country is functioning because of these migrants where again many companies and systems like the NHS whould not function without. Its a prejudice and sterotype within society that disadvantages many minority groups, even more so in employment. You are being as poor as Tommy who just sees some stats and fails to factor them.

Again I ask what has Asian and black if they are British got to do with anything other than a racial point of view?

and I repeat that I would make the same argument if they were of "other" origins...fate decrees that atm they are black/asian....but that is irrelevant....

I ask why is this then a factor for you to argue off immigrants coming to this country?

as above...I'm not....

Have you any comprehension on how for example Irish and Itallian immigrants were treated in the 19th and early 20th century in America and seen very much as you are casting those coming here today?

the experiences of those 100+ years ago are hardly relevant to today.....

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:07 pm

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then didge....

BUT I will say this

there is a "perfect storm" brewing

and all it takes is two triggers

ONE ...yeah go on ...let em in ...willy nilly...dont bother PROVING they are "safe" (impossible to do...since they have "lost" their papers....you cant even guarantee that the name they give is genuine)

TWO those nut jobs that are already here do a Mumbai in central London...or worse (since londoners are not exactly the most lively folk) Manchester or leeds....

and watch the ensuing fireworks.....

what you either dont see (for whatever reason) or dont want to beleive, is that there is a huge resentment amongst the "silent majority" the folks who say nowt or little, but non the less inwardly seeth.....

the best outcome would be a few days of rioting and disturbances, promulgated by our home bred nutters...which is then over and done

a far far worse outcome is that it occurs close enough to an election to be remembered but far ennough away for another party to form with REAL R/W intent AND some smart folks at the help....then god help us all......

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:09 pm

My Mother hated the climate, plus she had some brothers and sisters already in the UK.
I many relatives in canada and it is beautiful out there and if I left the Uk it would be to go and live there or Ireland.

Laughing

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:11 pm

victorismyhero wrote:I guess we will have to agree to disagree then didge....

BUT I will say this

there is a "perfect storm" brewing

and all it takes is two triggers

ONE ...yeah go on ...let em in ...willy nilly...dont bother PROVING they are "safe" (impossible to do...since they have "lost" their papers....you cant even guarantee that the name they give is genuine)

TWO those nut jobs that are already here do a Mumbai in central London...or worse (since londoners are not exactly the most lively folk) Manchester or leeds....

and watch the ensuing fireworks.....

what you either dont see (for whatever reason) or dont want to beleive, is that there is a huge resentment amongst the "silent majority" the folks who say nowt or little, but non the less inwardly seeth.....

the best outcome would be a few days of rioting and disturbances, promulgated by our home bred nutters...which is then over and done

a far far worse outcome is that it occurs close enough to an election to be remembered but far ennough away for another party to form with REAL R/W intent AND some smart folks at the help....then god help us all......

People have been saying that for years Victor that its brewing into a conflict.
I myself do not see this happenning and we have had far more difficult times before like with the Bradford riots.
Yeah we will have to agree to not agree.
Laughing

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:17 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:I guess we will have to agree to disagree then didge....

BUT I will say this

there is a "perfect storm" brewing

and all it takes is two triggers

ONE ...yeah go on ...let em in ...willy nilly...dont bother PROVING they are "safe" (impossible to do...since they have "lost" their papers....you cant even guarantee that the name they give is genuine)

TWO those nut jobs that are already here do a Mumbai in central London...or worse (since londoners are not exactly the most lively folk) Manchester or leeds....

and watch the ensuing fireworks.....

what you either dont see (for whatever reason) or dont want to beleive, is that there is a huge resentment amongst the "silent majority" the folks who say nowt or little, but non the less inwardly seeth.....

the best outcome would be a few days of rioting and disturbances, promulgated by our home bred nutters...which is then over and done

a far far worse outcome is that it occurs close enough to an election to be remembered but far ennough away for another party to form with REAL R/W intent AND some smart folks at the help....then god help us all......

People have been saying that for years Victor that its brewing into a conflict.
I myself do not see this happenning and we have had far more difficult times before like with the Bradford riots.
Yeah we will have to agree to not agree.

yeah its abit like my dads rice wine

it brewed...and brewed and brewed and the pressure went up.....and it brewed and brewed

then one night we were awakened by what sounded like a 500 pounder going off downstairs...it blew the cupboard door of and decorated the hall, not to mention the shrapnel stuck every where....

to say mother was not pleased would be an understatement......

the point of that story is that the longer it brews....the bigger the bang.....

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:27 pm

Cuchulain wrote:My Mother hated the climate, plus she had some brothers and sisters already in the UK.
I many relatives in canada and it is beautiful out there and if I left the Uk it would be to go and live there or Ireland.

I should have added, my father moved from Malta when he was 14 to canada, my mother from Ireland to train as a Nurse in Canada at 18.
My eldest brother was born in Canada, my eldest sister in Ireland.

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:32 pm

bloody ell didge....

you aint immigrants...you are nomads Laughing

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:34 pm

and i though one of my aunts was bad...in her life she managed to live in 7 counties 3 citys and countless villages....

we reckon she was always just one step ahead of .....something affraid

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:37 pm

victorismyhero wrote:bloody ell didge....

you aint immigrants...you are nomads

by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:42 pm

If all these asylum seekers were white, would people still be so keen to help them? There's been a lot of talk about "racism" when it comes to asylum seekers and/or immigrants, so what if race was not an issue?

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:45 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:If all these asylum seekers were white, would people still be so keen to help them? There's been a lot of talk about "racism" when it comes to asylum seekers and/or immigrants, so what if race was not an issue?

Many are white, Syrians, Ukrainians etc.

by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:52 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:If all these asylum seekers were white, would people still be so keen to help them? There's been a lot of talk about "racism" when it comes to asylum seekers and/or immigrants, so what if race was not an issue?

Many are white, Syrians, Ukrainians etc.

What if they were white Americans trying to escape from the US? Laughing

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:55 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Many are white, Syrians, Ukrainians etc.

What if they were white Americans trying to escape from the US?

What if they were when as seen we already have "white" people fleeing persecution?

by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 4:58 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What if they were white Americans trying to escape from the US?

What if they were when as seen we already have "white" people fleeing persecution?

So you retract this?

Geography makes it racial.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:40 pm

Cuchulain wrote:There is no majority view to stop immigration

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/uk-britain-immigration-survey-idUKBREA0600F20140107

UK people want immigration vastly reduced.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:45 pm

And fuck off with your NHS would fail without immigrants bollocks... the NHS employs just over a million people and I'm sure we could find enough of our own people to fill all the jobs foreigners take if our govts hadn't deliberately let our own trained people decrease just to bring foreigners in and then use the argument you just did about how wonderful all foreigners are And well needed.

They are mostly unneeded and huge numbers unproductive, unskilled and not working

Taking up valuable resources, housing, school places, benefits etc...

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:52 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Nems wrote:

I disagree, Cameron would never have made that swarm comment unless he thought it was what people want to hear

Based on pandering to those who are selfish?
Again the vast majority do not want immigration stopped but reduced.
Even that is also selfish.
This is what ammoys me many of our systems would cease to function without immigrants, the NHS being one where one third of doctors are foriegn. This and countless others are reliant of immigrants to function, where in some cases it is because of a poor ethos where people feel jobs are either beneath them or are not willing work for the inimum wage. Well we should have a living wage which is coming but at present it because of these wages that we continue to have growth as investors come here because it is finnacially viable to do so. The reality is this poor ethos has to change, where gone sadly are the days when people were proud of doing a hards days work, now they begrudge doing this.
There are 7 million foriegn born in this country, if they all got pissed off with all this nastiness directed towards them and all left tomnorrow this country would utterly collaspe. People need to start being thankful for the fact they increase the economy and growth of this country and keep it running, yet all they get is the most ungrateful and selfish views of those foriegn, based on a view where they were born geographically makes them wrongly think they can deny others a right to a life.

7 million... too many or enough now...!?

And if They all left it would not be a bad thing as there would be keep people taking up space and resources and housing and roads and less drain on everything.

We don't want or need any more here and nobody is denying anyone a life... they can carry on having their life wherever they are, or elsewhere... just not here!

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 5:52 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:There is no majority view to stop immigration

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/uk-britain-immigration-survey-idUKBREA0600F20140107

UK people want immigration vastly reduced.

Which is what I said you idiot, where you conclude it is to stop

\|No I will not fuck off you racist twat, the only person who should fuck off is idiots like you that create the divide in this country. Taking up what resourcing? What you have paid into the system is minuscule shall we go by a system who pays more jumps the que now which would mean children left last using your daft reasoning?

Jog on Twatti your hate is as boring as fuck and its pointless debating a brainless idiot like yourself.
Victor knows what hes talking about, where as you know fuck all

So enjoy ranting on your own

by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:01 pm

So Tommy wanting immigration reduced or stopped is racist? I thought it was nothing to do with racism.

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:02 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:So Tommy wanting immigration reduced or stopped is racist? I thought it was nothing to do with racism.

Tommy is rscist because he holds racist views.
Its that simple

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:08 pm

victorismyhero wrote:so...evasion and ambiguity is the word is it ? hmmmm

the cultural aspect is a load of cobblers....to a large extent...and I dont personally give a flying fig for the "racial" aspect

an englishman is an englishman...whether he be white black or yellow with purple spots (tho i'd advise HIM to see a doctor...purple spots aint good) but od course tis is where the cultural aspect tends to have an effect.....

you simply CANNOT be an englishman if you dress in your pj's to go shopping, dress your wife in a tent, refuse to show your face (hint...a face is your stamp of honesty) and go round shouting about things that are perfectly legitimate within english (british) culture....

oh and I've got ANOTHER example of the delightful people we have residing here now

was out with my springer the other day....

when walking in a crowd he sticks close to my heel and ignores everyone else around him....he is soley focussed on me...(different when hunting...then he's a loon and will bounce all and sundry)

walked past one of our islamic bretheren...who took a crafty kick at him and yelled dirty animal....

I told him he was very very lucky......for obvious reasons I couldnt do what I SHOULD have been allowed to do and wreck his face....So I just told him my dog smelt better than him , and was entirely more sociable so go F*** a camel

thats why folks have cultural "problems " with these ........things......

I'm not a violent person but I would have dropped him like a sack of spuds...!!!

by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:15 pm

They can't all think that way though, otherwise there would be dogs being kicked all over the place.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:19 pm

victorismyhero wrote:of course I do realise that the white british are unemployed becasue they are all idle useless scroungers, whereas the "minorities" are unemployed SOLEY because they are discriminated against.

well thats the lefties view any way.....

Young white British are losing out on jobs that are being taken by slightly older, slightly wiser EU immigrants...

I have posted the statistic before that since 2004 when a number of east EU countries got accession to free movement, Poland saw unemployment halved to about 10% while our youth unemployment doubled with black youth going up to near 50%!!!

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:23 pm

You mean a culture of brits who during the early 21st century thought it was better to be on benefits that to work and that some work was beneath them. To such an extent employers were crying out for people to fill vacant jobs. This led to there being jobs a plenty of EU migrants, none of which would have been able to stay without Brits not takling up these jobs. This is the most annoying thing about this as its those shouting the most in most casesm moaning about immigration, who were the people that created the situation in the first place for mass immigration happenning.

Go figure

by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:25 pm

Oooooh, is this now a discussion on whether Brits choose to be on benefits rather than get a job?

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:27 pm

Cuchulain wrote:OMG this is why a person from the country has little understanding.
My parents moved from Canada to Northern Ireland and my father could get no work because he was a Catholic and ended up joining the British Army and then moved to the UK. growing up we endured much discrmination for being Irish and labelled as terrorists just for being of an Irish ethnicity. We had very little and do not have the handouts that are given today, you had to work or you would go without. You have utterly no comprehension of discrmination and prejudice the part it plays within society Victor and that is why I take your views with a pinch of salt, they are born from a White Middle Class ethos.

The vast majority of immigrants are in employment, 7 million foreign born would tell you need to look at your maths again and compare this to the amount unemployed claiming benefits or that. The fact is this country is functioning because of these migrants where again many companies and systems like the NHS whould not function without. Its a prejudice and sterotype within society that disadvantages many minority groups, even more so in employment. You are being as poor as Tommy who just sees some stats and fails to factor them.

Again I ask what has Asian and black if they are British got to do with anything other than a racial point of view?

I ask why is this then a factor for you to argue off immigrants coming to this country?

Have you any comprehension on how for example Irish and Itallian immigrants were treated in the 19th and early 20th century in America and seen very much as you are casting those coming here today?

Maybe that was because Italy was our enemy in ww2... and nasty bastards during it!!!

My great uncle was serving on a British submarine during the war and his sub was blown up and he was captured by the Italians and held in a POW camp there... they were brutal... the story went that it was better to be caught by the Germans because they would just kill you and not make you suffer as much as the Italians did...

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:30 pm

OMG early 20th century is before WW2, where in fact America turned to Lucky Luciano to help with the Invasion of Siciliy and Italy.
Many American Italians fought against Nazis Tommy, my Sicilian Grand father fought for the British on Malta.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:51 pm

Cuchulain wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/01/07/uk-britain-immigration-survey-idUKBREA0600F20140107

UK people want immigration vastly reduced.

Which is what I said you idiot, where you conclude it is to stop

\|No I will not fuck off you racist twat, the only person who should fuck off[/b] is idiots like you that create the divide in this country.[/b]

The British people were completely united, especially so after ww2... until politicians forced mass immigration onto us and flooded huge numbers of areas with foreigners... we are now totally divided by now having so many large numbers of all manner of different people who all have their own separate racial/ethnic groups, cultures, languages, beliefs, interests etc... yet can't get much more divisive than that!!!

Taking up what resourcing? What you have paid into the system is minuscule shall we go by a system who pays more jumps the que now which would mean children left last using your daft reasoning?

My parents and their parents and their parents and their parents and on and on etc, along with all the other indigenous British people, each working hard, contributing to and creating everything... bit by bit, not just for themselves and each other, but for their collective children and future generations of us... US British people!!!

Not for it to be given away to others for just turning up after it's all finished!!!

Jog on Twatti your hate is as boring as fuck and its pointless debating a brainless idiot like yourself.
Victor knows what hes talking about, where as you know fuck all

So enjoy ranting on your own

by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 7:56 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:

My parents and their parents and their parents and their parents and on and on etc, along with all the other indigenous British people, each working hard, contributing to and creating everything... bit by bit, not just for themselves and each other, but for their collective children and future generations of us... US British people!!!

Not for it to be given away to others for just turning up after it's all finished!!!

A bit like someone joining a lottery syndicate and winning loads after a week when others have been paying in for ages?

Or someone joining a forum and getting loads of rep points when others who have been there ages don't have as many?

lol!

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:00 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
victorismyhero wrote:so...evasion and ambiguity is the word is it ? hmmmm

the cultural aspect is a load of cobblers....to a large extent...and I dont personally give a flying fig for the "racial" aspect

an englishman is an englishman...whether he be white black or yellow with purple spots (tho i'd advise HIM to see a doctor...purple spots aint good) but od course tis is where the cultural aspect tends to have an effect.....

you simply CANNOT be an englishman if you dress in your pj's to go shopping, dress your wife in a tent, refuse to show your face (hint...a face is your stamp of honesty) and go round shouting about things that are perfectly legitimate within english (british) culture....

oh and I've got ANOTHER example of the delightful people we have residing here now

was out with my springer the other day....

when walking in a crowd he sticks close to my heel and ignores everyone else around him....he is soley focussed on me...(different when hunting...then he's a loon and will bounce all and sundry)

walked past one of our islamic bretheren...who took a crafty kick at him and yelled dirty animal....

I told him he was very very lucky......for obvious reasons I couldnt do what I SHOULD have been allowed to do and wreck his face....So I just told him my dog smelt better than him , and was entirely more sociable so go F*** a camel

thats why folks have cultural "problems " with these ........things......

I'm not a violent person but I would have dropped him like a sack of spuds...!!!

tommy...it was close...but I have my licence to think about.....and no doubt if I HAD smacked him a well deserved one...I would have been done for a "racially agravated assault"

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:03 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:
Cuchulain wrote:

Which is what I said you idiot, where you conclude it is to stop

\|No I will not fuck off you racist twat, the only person who should fuck off[/b] is idiots like you that create the divide in this country.[/b]

The British people were completely united, especially so after ww2... until politicians forced mass immigration onto us and flooded huge numbers of areas with foreigners... we are now totally divided by now having so many large numbers of all manner of different people who all have their own separate racial/ethnic groups, cultures, languages, beliefs, interests etc... yet can't get much more divisive than that!!!

Taking up what resourcing? What you have paid into the system is minuscule shall we go by a system who pays more jumps the que now which would mean children left last using your daft reasoning?

My parents and their parents and their parents and their parents and on and on etc, along with all the other indigenous British people, each working hard, contributing to and creating everything... bit by bit, not just for themselves and each other, but for their collective children and future generations of us... US British people!!!

Not for it to be given away to others for just turning up after it's all finished!!!

Jog on Twatti your hate is as boring as fuck and its pointless debating a brainless idiot like yourself.
Victor knows what hes talking about, where as you know fuck all

So enjoy ranting on your own

The British people brought about mass immigration like I already said and then they moan about it,. as during the early 21st century thought it was better to be on benefits that to work and that some work was beneath them. To such an extent employers were crying out for people to fill vacant jobs. This led to there being jobs a plenty of EU migrants, none of which would have been able to stay without Brits not takling up these jobs. This is the most annoying thing about this as its those shouting the most in most casesm moaning about immigration, who were the people that created the situation in the first place for mass immigration happenning.

Go figure

Its the British people that created this as without people taking up jobs, there would not be jobs for immigrants to have or to then stay. That you miss at every turn.

by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:09 pm

Or a bit like working hard, saving hard and buying yourself a nice house, spending your hard earned money and spare time on it and doing it up, fitting it out with top stuff etc... only for others to start turning up and moving in because it's better than their shit holes that they never bothered to sort out themselves...

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:16 pm

an interesting aside to all this is...

given the predicted backlash...which hasnt happened...yet

I'd say another piece of te jig saw has just dropped into place, certainly if nothing else the clock has slipped foward another notch.

why say this...well a few years ago it took 10,000's of Bangladeshi refugees to stir up a protest

the numbers involved at calais is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, yet it has crystalised all this debate ....

conclusion...peoples tolerance levels are dropping......fast......

by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:17 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Or a bit like working hard, saving hard and buying yourself a nice house, spending your hard earned money and spare time on it and doing it up, fitting it out with top stuff etc... only for others to start turning up and moving in because it's better than their shit holes that they never bothered to sort out themselves...

Again this country was born off wealth stolen and made off others like with slavery, whilst at that time people in Britain themsleves in the majority lived in complete poverty. Where an elite was very much advantaged. Again nobody moans today that countless people from these lands left to colonise other lands to the extent millions in the US alone are dscended from the Uk, so much so whites are the majority based of EU migration. 40 million Americans are thought to be descended from the British. It was Britain that made many countries shit holes and left them in such a poor state because they only built infrustructure to assist in their profit machin making. An elite in these societies was educated and left believeing it was right to take advantage of those they felt and learnt from the British were beneath them. Basically Britain and other European nations left African nations how they had once been in the early 19th century and how many decades has it taken for the Uk to get where it is today? That has taken nearly 200 years and Britain had a huge advantage being that of wealth it had taken from these gains. This is why history is so important to understand why in fact Africa left in the poor state they were where many had little skills is actually advnacing far fasted today than the European nations ever did. Its still going to take time to catch up, but I find it appalling how we bemoan people coming here when we have taken so much and givn very little back.

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