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What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:01 pm
First topic message reminder :
Although it may seem an irrelevance in almost wholly secularized Britain, the Church of England still manages to maintain a semblance of moral authority. This was on display last week after Prime Minister David Cameron spoke of a “swarm” of migrants seeking entry to Britain from refugee camps in the French port of Calais. The Right Rev. Trevor Wilmott, the Bishop of Dover, responded sternly: Cameron’s words reflected a “toxicity” in public discourse that leads us to “forget our humanity.”
While it was likely that the refugee crisis troubling Europe would wash up on British shores, the attitude of the government has proved more surprising. Historically, policy has followed public disquiet over immigration. By crafting a narrative for the public to follow, Cameron, who once worked in public relations, has presented another approach.
There have been three significant waves of immigration to Britain since the late 19th century. The first arose from a humanitarian crisis, the pogroms of Tsarist Russia. As Anthony Julius states in Trials of the Diaspora (2010), around 150,000 Jews sought sanctuary in Britain between 1880 and 1905. The second occurred after 1948, when the Labour government granted British citizenship to all living in the Commonwealth. Ministers hoped to relieve labor shortfalls caused by a declining population and the need for post-WWII rebuilding. Initially, only a few thousand males from the West Indies, India, and Pakistan immigrated each year, but numbers increased rapidly in the mid 1950s. David Kynaston writes in Modernity Britain (2014) that two factors pushed this process: the desire to reunify families and the growing affluence of 1950s Britain. Between 1956 and 1961, the number of people arriving each year rose from 46,000 to 135,000. The third wave occurred after 2004, when several former communist nations joined the European Union. Britain offered new EU citizens free movement of labor. Between 2005 and 2009, almost 700,000 workers arrived from Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and the Baltic States.
Each migratory pattern was met with virulent opposition. Julius notes the waves of anti-Semitism that accompanied Jewish refugees. Popular newspapers, music hall acts, political pamphlets, and public meetings proclaimed Jews to be a threat to the racial and public health of the nation and argued that cheap Jewish labor would lower standards of living. Kynaston shows that Commonwealth citizens faced similar discrimination; white Britons led race riots against West Indians in 1958, for example. Racist sentiment surged after the Conservative MP Enoch Powell, in a 1968 speech, claimed that immigration would lead to “rivers of blood” in British streets. Post-colonial writers like Hanif Kureshi, Zadie Smith, Monica Ali, and Andrea Levy depict the development of an institutionalized racism in regards to policing, the justice system, workplace inequality, housing, educational opportunities, popular culture, and sports. Finally, popular tabloid newspapers such as the Daily Mail, the Express and the Sun formed a popular perception that EU migrants were parasites leaching from Britain’s welfare system. This is despite the fact that EU migrants proportionally contribute more to the exchequer than native-born Britons and receive fewer benefits.
Immigration has been the lifeblood of modern Britain. At the 2012 Olympic opening ceremony, Britons rightly celebrated their multi-cultural nation. Historical memory remembers the nation’s status as a safe haven for refugees. Arriving at this juncture has proved difficult and incomplete, however.
When it comes to immigration, British governments have followed rather than led. Popular anti-Semitism led to the passing of the Aliens Act by a Liberal government in 1905. By refusing entry to the indigent, this act targeted penniless Russian Jews fleeing their homes in the face of persecution. Growing unease with migration led a Conservative government to pass the Commonwealth Immigration Act (1962). This act restricted the right of entry for unskilled workers, a category that many Commonwealth immigrants fell into. Labour governments have been no less averse to playing the race card. The Commonwealth Immigration Act (1968), limited the right to immigrate to those who had a parent or grandparent born in Britain. This was a pre-emptive strike against a potential exodus of Indians facing discrimination in Uganda and Kenya. This legislation did not affect another Kenyan minority, the descendants of British colonial settlers. Most recently, the anti-immigrant UK Independence Party has stoked popular discontent. This led in the 2015 general election to both the Conservatives and Labour promising to limit immigration. So committed were the latter to this pledge that it was emblazoned on a commemorative mug.
In reality, the “swarm” of migrants does not exist. As its EU partners regularly point out, Britain fails to take in its fair share of asylum-seekers. Just a few thousand refugees reside in the camps at Calais. By contrast, over 200,000 people applied for asylum in Germany last year. Greece and Italy remain the first port of call for the refugee ships launched daily from North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean. By creating the perception of crisis, Cameron avoids a politically unpopular decision and asserts his authority over the EU in anticipation of the 2016 referendum on British membership.
But another issue lurks in the background. Many refugees are fleeing political violence, whether in North Africa or by the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan and ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Given that British participation in the 2001 war against the Taliban, the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the 2010 bombing of Libya contributed greatly to this instability should Britain – and the US for that matter – take greater responsibility for its actions?
Put simply: for reasons of history, fairness, and responsibility, Britain should do more.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/160209
Although it may seem an irrelevance in almost wholly secularized Britain, the Church of England still manages to maintain a semblance of moral authority. This was on display last week after Prime Minister David Cameron spoke of a “swarm” of migrants seeking entry to Britain from refugee camps in the French port of Calais. The Right Rev. Trevor Wilmott, the Bishop of Dover, responded sternly: Cameron’s words reflected a “toxicity” in public discourse that leads us to “forget our humanity.”
While it was likely that the refugee crisis troubling Europe would wash up on British shores, the attitude of the government has proved more surprising. Historically, policy has followed public disquiet over immigration. By crafting a narrative for the public to follow, Cameron, who once worked in public relations, has presented another approach.
There have been three significant waves of immigration to Britain since the late 19th century. The first arose from a humanitarian crisis, the pogroms of Tsarist Russia. As Anthony Julius states in Trials of the Diaspora (2010), around 150,000 Jews sought sanctuary in Britain between 1880 and 1905. The second occurred after 1948, when the Labour government granted British citizenship to all living in the Commonwealth. Ministers hoped to relieve labor shortfalls caused by a declining population and the need for post-WWII rebuilding. Initially, only a few thousand males from the West Indies, India, and Pakistan immigrated each year, but numbers increased rapidly in the mid 1950s. David Kynaston writes in Modernity Britain (2014) that two factors pushed this process: the desire to reunify families and the growing affluence of 1950s Britain. Between 1956 and 1961, the number of people arriving each year rose from 46,000 to 135,000. The third wave occurred after 2004, when several former communist nations joined the European Union. Britain offered new EU citizens free movement of labor. Between 2005 and 2009, almost 700,000 workers arrived from Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, and the Baltic States.
Each migratory pattern was met with virulent opposition. Julius notes the waves of anti-Semitism that accompanied Jewish refugees. Popular newspapers, music hall acts, political pamphlets, and public meetings proclaimed Jews to be a threat to the racial and public health of the nation and argued that cheap Jewish labor would lower standards of living. Kynaston shows that Commonwealth citizens faced similar discrimination; white Britons led race riots against West Indians in 1958, for example. Racist sentiment surged after the Conservative MP Enoch Powell, in a 1968 speech, claimed that immigration would lead to “rivers of blood” in British streets. Post-colonial writers like Hanif Kureshi, Zadie Smith, Monica Ali, and Andrea Levy depict the development of an institutionalized racism in regards to policing, the justice system, workplace inequality, housing, educational opportunities, popular culture, and sports. Finally, popular tabloid newspapers such as the Daily Mail, the Express and the Sun formed a popular perception that EU migrants were parasites leaching from Britain’s welfare system. This is despite the fact that EU migrants proportionally contribute more to the exchequer than native-born Britons and receive fewer benefits.
Immigration has been the lifeblood of modern Britain. At the 2012 Olympic opening ceremony, Britons rightly celebrated their multi-cultural nation. Historical memory remembers the nation’s status as a safe haven for refugees. Arriving at this juncture has proved difficult and incomplete, however.
When it comes to immigration, British governments have followed rather than led. Popular anti-Semitism led to the passing of the Aliens Act by a Liberal government in 1905. By refusing entry to the indigent, this act targeted penniless Russian Jews fleeing their homes in the face of persecution. Growing unease with migration led a Conservative government to pass the Commonwealth Immigration Act (1962). This act restricted the right of entry for unskilled workers, a category that many Commonwealth immigrants fell into. Labour governments have been no less averse to playing the race card. The Commonwealth Immigration Act (1968), limited the right to immigrate to those who had a parent or grandparent born in Britain. This was a pre-emptive strike against a potential exodus of Indians facing discrimination in Uganda and Kenya. This legislation did not affect another Kenyan minority, the descendants of British colonial settlers. Most recently, the anti-immigrant UK Independence Party has stoked popular discontent. This led in the 2015 general election to both the Conservatives and Labour promising to limit immigration. So committed were the latter to this pledge that it was emblazoned on a commemorative mug.
In reality, the “swarm” of migrants does not exist. As its EU partners regularly point out, Britain fails to take in its fair share of asylum-seekers. Just a few thousand refugees reside in the camps at Calais. By contrast, over 200,000 people applied for asylum in Germany last year. Greece and Italy remain the first port of call for the refugee ships launched daily from North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean. By creating the perception of crisis, Cameron avoids a politically unpopular decision and asserts his authority over the EU in anticipation of the 2016 referendum on British membership.
But another issue lurks in the background. Many refugees are fleeing political violence, whether in North Africa or by the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan and ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Given that British participation in the 2001 war against the Taliban, the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and the 2010 bombing of Libya contributed greatly to this instability should Britain – and the US for that matter – take greater responsibility for its actions?
Put simply: for reasons of history, fairness, and responsibility, Britain should do more.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/160209
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:22 pm
I'm tired of hearing about how people here "stole" from other countries. I'm sick of the implication that some people just had things fall into their laps. People worked hard to give themselves and their families a better life. To imply that others should be able to come here and live off the efforts of others just because of something that might have happened years ago is absurd.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:25 pm
Raggamuffin wrote:I'm tired of hearing about how people here "stole" from other countries. I'm sick of the implication that some people just had things fall into their laps. People worked hard to give themselves and their families a better life. To imply that others should be able to come here and live off the efforts of others just because of something that might have happened years ago is absurd.
You can be tired all you like but your position is fundemnetally benefited by these events in the past.
This country was formed and advanced because of all these welath taken. There is no disputing this no matter how many times you wish to ignore this. Can you even begin to imagine the amount in todays money that would be if we did the right thing and paid many of these nations back? So yes people did work hard here but they certainly started to have schools which then turned out that we could afford more and more people educated brought about many hospitals and further advances in science andf infrustructure. All ios conected and what is worse is that people today cannot even begin to undertand how privalidge they are. Now they wrongly expect everything on a plate/
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:27 pm
Dodge... the taps on mass immigration were opened by labour in 1997... totally without any electoral mandate or consultation or consent of the British people.
I have posted the facts about the detrimental effects on British youth unemployment since 2004 when east EU countries gained free movement and started coming here taking the jobs that would have otherwise gone to our own.
This had an even worse impact on black youth unemployment...
I support the young UK black youth while you support the mass immigration that has directly led to them suffering!!!
And you call me racist!!!
I have posted the facts about the detrimental effects on British youth unemployment since 2004 when east EU countries gained free movement and started coming here taking the jobs that would have otherwise gone to our own.
This had an even worse impact on black youth unemployment...
I support the young UK black youth while you support the mass immigration that has directly led to them suffering!!!
And you call me racist!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:32 pm
See poor excuses again.
How can people stay Tommy unless there is jobs for them?
Remember 7 million foriegn born.
If there is countless jobs of which thre would have to be, then clearly there was a mass of people not taking up these jobs. We also know there was a benefit culture under Labour of which I do blame Labour and partly the Tories for, but there is no shadow of a doubt it is the British people themselves that created mass immigration. Without jobs, then people leave finding places where there is work and the facts are this as I have proved to you before that companies were crying out for people to fill vancancies.
You are a racist full stop because you think there is such a thing as a race biological to the extet you have argued that blacks are inferior to whites in intelligence or they are criminally minded etc etc which shows your utter ignorance
How can people stay Tommy unless there is jobs for them?
Remember 7 million foriegn born.
If there is countless jobs of which thre would have to be, then clearly there was a mass of people not taking up these jobs. We also know there was a benefit culture under Labour of which I do blame Labour and partly the Tories for, but there is no shadow of a doubt it is the British people themselves that created mass immigration. Without jobs, then people leave finding places where there is work and the facts are this as I have proved to you before that companies were crying out for people to fill vancancies.
You are a racist full stop because you think there is such a thing as a race biological to the extet you have argued that blacks are inferior to whites in intelligence or they are criminally minded etc etc which shows your utter ignorance
Last edited by Cuchulain on Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:32 pm
Cuchulain wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:I'm tired of hearing about how people here "stole" from other countries. I'm sick of the implication that some people just had things fall into their laps. People worked hard to give themselves and their families a better life. To imply that others should be able to come here and live off the efforts of others just because of something that might have happened years ago is absurd.
You can be tired all you like but your position is fundemnetally benefited by these events in the past.
This country was formed and advanced because of all these welath taken. There is no disputing this no matter how many times you wish to ignore this. Can you even begin to imagine the amount in todays money that would be if we did the right thing and paid many of these nations back? So yes people did work hard here but they certainly started to have schools which then turned out that we could afford more and more people educated brought about many hospitals and further advances in science andf infrustructure. All ios conected and what is worse is that people today cannot even begin to undertand how privalidge they are. Now they wrongly expect everything on a plate/
Well I don't give a shit. I've worked for what I have, and you're not going to make me feel guilty about what someone else did hundreds of years ago.
This country needed more than money to advance. It needed people with ambition, drive, imagination, courage, and a sense of responsibility. You put everything down to money the whole time.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 8:37 pm
Raggamuffin wrote:Cuchulain wrote:
You can be tired all you like but your position is fundemnetally benefited by these events in the past.
This country was formed and advanced because of all these welath taken. There is no disputing this no matter how many times you wish to ignore this. Can you even begin to imagine the amount in todays money that would be if we did the right thing and paid many of these nations back? So yes people did work hard here but they certainly started to have schools which then turned out that we could afford more and more people educated brought about many hospitals and further advances in science andf infrustructure. All ios conected and what is worse is that people today cannot even begin to undertand how privalidge they are. Now they wrongly expect everything on a plate/
Well I don't give a shit. I've worked for what I have, and you're not going to make me feel guilty about what someone else did hundreds of years ago.
This country needed more than money to advance. It needed people with ambition, drive, imagination, courage, and a sense of responsibility. You put everything down to money the whole time.
What you claim to have done is best on your own view.
What you have given to help towards this country in perspective is like diging a spoon full of dirt from within the ground to help build a city. It has been a few innovative individuals that have advanced this nation from the collective work of the people of this nation after it had its advantaged start where it robbed a good part of the world and worked them to death. Collectivelly we a re not nation not individuals, as if we were the country would fall apart.
I do not put it down to just money far from it but it is your poor ungrateful attitude I find appalling to be honest, as you fail to see how you were advanataged from birth by nothing you actually did.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:09 pm
Cuchulain wrote:Raggamuffin wrote:
Well I don't give a shit. I've worked for what I have, and you're not going to make me feel guilty about what someone else did hundreds of years ago.
This country needed more than money to advance. It needed people with ambition, drive, imagination, courage, and a sense of responsibility. You put everything down to money the whole time.
What you claim to have done is best on your own view.
What you have given to help towards this country in perspective is like diging a spoon full of dirt from within the ground to help build a city. It has been a few innovative individuals that have advanced this nation from the collective work of the people of this nation after it had its advantaged start where it robbed a good part of the world and worked them to death. Collectivelly we a re not nation not individuals, as if we were the country would fall apart.
I do not put it down to just money far from it but it is your poor ungrateful attitude I find appalling to be honest, as you fail to see how you were advanataged from birth by nothing you actually did.
Who should I be grateful to? Your family? Stuff that.
A nation is made up of individuals. Do you think those few innovative individuals could have done anything without the work of others? Do you think the work of those others would have counted for anything without the innovative individuals?
This country isn't what it is by chance or because of privilege - it's the result of the work of many, and it's not just down to money.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:11 pm
No points made just a poor selfish attitude
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:13 pm
Cuchulain wrote:No points made just a poor selfish attitude
Because I'm sticking up for the people of this country?
If you had your way, we'd all just give away everything we earned to people in other countries who weren't even born when you claim everything was "stolen" from them.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:17 pm
You seem to nopw think that you speak for all people of the country and that they think the same as youRaggamuffin wrote:Cuchulain wrote:No points made just a poor selfish attitude
Because I'm sticking up for the people of this country?
If you had your way, we'd all just give away everything we earned to people in other countries who weren't even born when you claim everything was "stolen" from them.
Let me open your eyes again there are many people thankful for the advantatge start they have had in life.
Like I stated before you think what you do is far greater than the actual worth it provides to this country.
That is due to an over inflated ego.
We all help the country but that help is miniscule.
Now enough its just one tireless circle, start to be appreciative of things and the fact you were lucky based on geography and nothing else
Night
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:33 pm
Cuchulain wrote:You seem to nopw think that you speak for all people of the country and that they think the same as youRaggamuffin wrote:
Because I'm sticking up for the people of this country?
If you had your way, we'd all just give away everything we earned to people in other countries who weren't even born when you claim everything was "stolen" from them.
Let me open your eyes again there are many people thankful for the advantatge start they have had in life.
Like I stated before you think what you do is far greater than the actual worth it provides to this country.
That is due to an over inflated ego.
We all help the country but that help is miniscule.
Now enough its just one tireless circle, start to be appreciative of things and the fact you were lucky based on geography and nothing else
Night
No, I'm saying what I think. There's nothing "selfish" about sticking up for British people as you claimed.
I didn't speak about my "worth" to this country, I said that what I have, I worked for, and the likes of you are not going to make me feel that I didn't earn it because you think I'm "privileged".
Go and give all your money to immigrants if you feel so guilty about living here.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Raggamuffin Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:35 pm
Can you imagine if all the people who were around in WW2 said - oh no, the Germans are dropping bombs on us, let's all go to the US!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Wed Aug 12, 2015 10:31 pm
Why don't others just stay where they are And work hard to improve their own countries...!?
Surely if They are so "equal" They would have already done it themselves!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by veya_victaous Wed Aug 12, 2015 11:42 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:
Why don't others just stay where they are And work hard to improve their own countries...!?
Surely if They are so "equal" They would have already done it themselves!
why didn't your ancestors
why did you guys put on redcoats and go rape an pillage
That's not they way it works Obviously Since it's not they way you got anything!!!
YOU and Your ancestors DIDN'T MAKE the wealth in the UK today
You stole So Get Fucked if you think you get to keep to yourselves now.
we are all in the is together your little idea of nationhood is gone.
It is really that simple. Europeans need to grow the fuck up and get on with it, your acting like a bunch of spoiled babies.
this is the world Your ancestors created. suck it up and deal with it because so far you have had it a lot fucking easier than anyone else. You don't even have it hard now and you are just acting like pathetic wimps like what is happening to you is worse than what you did to others
People want to share what you have
YOUR ANCESTORS JUST FUCKING STOLE IT
Europe has no argument against immigration that is not that of a pathetic hypocrite
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Eilzel Thu Aug 13, 2015 1:42 am
By that reasoning veya, Australia should be open to mass immigration too.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by veya_victaous Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:17 am
Eilzel wrote:By that reasoning veya, Australia should be open to mass immigration too.
we are, we take more than twice as many per capita than you do. every year
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.GROW?order=wbapi_data_value_2014+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc
Australia 1.6 % population increase in 2014 alone
UK only 0.6%
even the USA is 0.7%
UK population has increased by 20% since 1960
Australia's population has increased by 20% since 1990
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by veya_victaous Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:19 am
My nation has had more population growth in my life time than the UK has had in Victors 
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Eilzel Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:48 am
veya_victaous wrote:Eilzel wrote:By that reasoning veya, Australia should be open to mass immigration too.
we are, we take more than twice as many per capita than you do. every year
http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.GROW?order=wbapi_data_value_2014+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc
Australia 1.6 % population increase in 2014 alone
UK only 0.6%
even the USA is 0.7%
UK population has increased by 20% since 1960
Australia's population has increased by 20% since 1990
Fair play. And you have no problem with that? I just wanted to be sure there were no double standards
Although we are smaller country in terms of geography, and I do not believe we have any obligation to take on an undetermined number of immigrants or refugees. We should do our bit though of course. For the most part its the rhetoric I hate, talking about humans like animals (as tommy does) is vile and inhumane and leads to vile and inhumane actions.
Ideally we would be helping those problem countries become stable, since they are largely still recovering from colonialism (however much history denials embrace ignorance). And that way they wouldn't need to leave. Of course a major problem there in many cases is religion (it always comes back to that).
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by veya_victaous Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:57 am
lol
I say we should let all the boat people in fast tracked since they showed far more initiative and desire to be here. than some one that wait in the queue.. immigration isn't an issue here it is specially illegal migration (boat people)
My dad is an immigrant and i think he says it best
There are only 2 types of Australians... the Lucky and the Smart... those Lucky enough to be born here and those Smart enough to come here.
Any issues are due to the failings of our leadership, the greed of the haves, it is not the fault of the poor people risking their lives for a better one.
I say we should let all the boat people in fast tracked since they showed far more initiative and desire to be here. than some one that wait in the queue.. immigration isn't an issue here it is specially illegal migration (boat people)
My dad is an immigrant and i think he says it best
There are only 2 types of Australians... the Lucky and the Smart... those Lucky enough to be born here and those Smart enough to come here.
Any issues are due to the failings of our leadership, the greed of the haves, it is not the fault of the poor people risking their lives for a better one.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Eilzel Thu Aug 13, 2015 4:59 am
veya_victaous wrote:lol
I say we should let all the boat people in fast tracked since they showed far more initiative and desire to be here. than some one that wait in the queue.. immigration isn't an issue here it is specially illegal migration (boat people)
My dad is an immigrant and i think he says it best
There are only 2 types of Australians... the Lucky and the Smart... those Lucky enough to be born here and those Smart enough to come here.
Any issues are due to the failings of our leadership, the greed of the haves, it is not the fault of the poor people risking their lives for a better one.
I'd say it is the same in the UK to a great extent.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:00 am
Raggamuffin wrote:Cuchulain wrote:
You seem to nopw think that you speak for all people of the country and that they think the same as you
Let me open your eyes again there are many people thankful for the advantatge start they have had in life.
Like I stated before you think what you do is far greater than the actual worth it provides to this country.
That is due to an over inflated ego.
We all help the country but that help is miniscule.
Now enough its just one tireless circle, start to be appreciative of things and the fact you were lucky based on geography and nothing else
Night
No, I'm saying what I think. There's nothing "selfish" about sticking up for British people as you claimed.
I didn't speak about my "worth" to this country, I said that what I have, I worked for, and the likes of you are not going to make me feel that I didn't earn it because you think I'm "privileged".
Go and give all your money to immigrants if you feel so guilty about living here.
No its completely you, who do not think you are privileged. You did not create all the hospitals, schools, infrustructure etc and think working hard, means you can forgo being grateful. That is a poor belief to have as it actually does not respect everything else that everyine does or has done or where and how much of this got off trhe ground in the first place. See again you think georgraphy is a reason to deny people when being born here you did nothing that grabted you access to all these facilities and still you make and show no grace for any of this.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:27 am
veya_victaous wrote:lol
I say we should let all the boat people in fast tracked since they showed far more initiative and desire to be here. than some one that wait in the queue.. immigration isn't an issue here it is specially illegal migration (boat people)
My dad is an immigrant and i think he says it best
There are only 2 types of Australians... the Lucky and the Smart... those Lucky enough to be born here and those Smart enough to come here.
Any issues are due to the failings of our leadership, the greed of the haves, it is not the fault of the poor people risking their lives for a better one.
Well said but sadly some people seem to think they are all parasites and not human after all even though in the vast majority of cases these people suffer persecution which hardly any on here have any clue as to what that is like. Many have not even seen much outside the UK in the first place and think wrongly they can deny others just because they have worked here, even though these same people can do the same once they have bee granted the right to work. None of them created the infrustructure in this country and descend from only a few people which may have worked hard but were just a miniscule amount of people that helped build this infrustructure. They were just some of millions that helped build this country yet wrong think that gives them a right to deny others, even though at some point their ancestors came here as immigrants. aAll of which would have not happened without the exploitation of others. Sadly this stems from an ungrateful attitude where also sadly today people take everything for granted/
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by veya_victaous Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:20 am
@didge
at least it is something we agree on
at least it is something we agree on
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:47 am
The madness continues...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/6586907/Taxpayers-pay-for-illegal-immigrants-to-stay-at-hotel.html
Africans should be returned to African union to deal with!!!
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/6586907/Taxpayers-pay-for-illegal-immigrants-to-stay-at-hotel.html
Africans should be returned to African union to deal with!!!
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:37 am
@ veya...to quote immigration in terms of "per capita" is disingenious
try by land area......then you can take em all.....followed by canada and america.....
Moreover stuff your per capita....
you only have 23 million people....we already have around 70 million....
I'm afarid you are making a very specious argument there....
try by land area......then you can take em all.....followed by canada and america.....
Moreover stuff your per capita....
you only have 23 million people....we already have around 70 million....
I'm afarid you are making a very specious argument there....
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:38 am
you are the 52nd most populated....and the 6th largest in area 
you are NOT pulling your weight here....
you are NOT pulling your weight here....
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:01 pm
They can't all just keep coming here just because they want to and choose to.
We have to draw a line somewhere.
We have to draw a line somewhere.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:03 pm
Still no answer to the question of why shouldn't we be returning the African illegal immigrants/asylum seekers to the African union to deal with!?
Why shouldn't they be responsible for looking after them and placing them in any of the numerous safe countries in the vast continent of Africa!?
Why shouldn't they be responsible for looking after them and placing them in any of the numerous safe countries in the vast continent of Africa!?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:11 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Union
Are there any reasons why the African union should not be taking these people back and looking after them..!?
Are there any reasons why the African union should not be taking these people back and looking after them..!?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:02 pm
So still no answers why the African union shouldn't be having these people returned to them to deal with then...!!!???
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:14 pm
Still waiting for you to respond to many points addressed to you.
Do you need help with an aid like reading glasses as to why you have avoided them?
Do you need help with an aid like reading glasses as to why you have avoided them?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:18 pm
Are you claiming that the UK should not help peoplke it played a part in creating their plight?
Some buddy you must be to people when they ask off your freindship?
I guess you must tell them to go fuck themselves?
No doubt you will have played a part in their downfall but hey, you are alright Tommy with nothing to worry about.
I bet you can count your friends on one finger?
Some buddy you must be to people when they ask off your freindship?
I guess you must tell them to go fuck themselves?
No doubt you will have played a part in their downfall but hey, you are alright Tommy with nothing to worry about.
I bet you can count your friends on one finger?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:21 pm
Still no answer as to why these Africans shouldn't be returned to the African union to deal with...
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:23 pm
Yeah we are waiting for you to answer countless points
So how about you start with doing so my boy?
So how about you start with doing so my boy?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by veya_victaous Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:39 pm
victorismyhero wrote:you are the 52nd most populated....and the 6th largest in area
you are NOT pulling your weight here....
Your argument was cost
WELL the cost is paid per capita
If space alone is the issue
then Pay us to take them
And I support more immigration to Australia, we just need decent leadership so we can found a new desert city rather than expanding into valuable farmlands
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:41 pm
veya_victaous wrote:victorismyhero wrote:you are the 52nd most populated....and the 6th largest in area
you are NOT pulling your weight here....
Your argument was cost
WELL the cost is paid per capita
If space alone is the issue
then Pay us to take them
And I support more immigration to Australia, we just need decent leadership so we can found a new desert city rather than expanding into valuable farmlands
Well said and could the uk pay in payments owed to people they shipped off for nothing more than stealing in order to survive?
In todays money the Uk must owe the Aussie people a fortune
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:48 pm
My simple question that I have put throughout this thread remains unanswered...
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by veya_victaous Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:52 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:My simple question that I have put throughout this thread remains unanswered...
Because they have no money or capacity to deal with them
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:52 pm
Has it?
I think you missed many before.
They were made to you which you ignored, funny that.
What countries are classified as safe Tommy?
What countries take far more than the UK?
Until tomorrow dummy
I think you missed many before.
They were made to you which you ignored, funny that.
What countries are classified as safe Tommy?
What countries take far more than the UK?
Until tomorrow dummy
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:04 am
They have plenty of money and abundant resources and space.
We also give then billions in aid.
So still no answers then!!!???
We also give then billions in aid.
So still no answers then!!!???
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:14 am
Cuchulain wrote:Has it?
I think you missed many before.
They were made to you which you ignored, funny that.
What countries are classified as safe Tommy?
What countries take far more than the UK?
Some answers please to the questions?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:46 am
Are you saying that all of Africa is unsafe for anyone...!?
Are you saying that Africans are that dangerous...!?
But we should let them all come here!!!???
Are you saying that Africans are that dangerous...!?
But we should let them all come here!!!???
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:54 am
Tommy Monk wrote:Are you saying that all of Africa is unsafe for anyone...!?
Are you saying that Africans are that dangerous...!?
But we should let them all come here!!!???
What countries are classified as safe Tommy?
What countries take far more than the UK?
Some answers please to the questions?
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:40 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Are you saying that all of Africa is unsafe for anyone...!?
Are you saying that Africans are that dangerous...!?
But we should let them all come here!!!???
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:56 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Are you saying that all of Africa is unsafe for anyone...!?
Are you saying that Africans are that dangerous...!?
But we should let them all come here!!!???
Not saying anything Tommy other than asking you questions as their important for you to understand when you do.
You are as usual not very bright, so lets help you.
Ukraine is not a safe country at the moment, does that mean Ukranians are dangereous?
No
You need to understand why a country might not be classified as safe.
Also African nations already take in refugees, which its clear you were not aware that they do.
In Africa, the right to seek and enjoy asylum is largely respected - with some 3 million refugees having found in exile the safety and protection they have lost at home. The generosity of hosting countries in Africa is outstanding; but in recent years, some core values of the protection system have been challenged, with instances of refoulement, as well as difficult access for UNHCR to people who may be in need of international protection. In Southern Africa, an increase in mixed migratory movements has also led to growing hostility towards refugees, putting pressure on asylum and protection space.
So again
What countries are classified as safe Tommy?
What countries take far more than the UK?
Some answers please to the questions?
Do you understand why countries world over taker in refugees?
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:30 pm
Ben Helfgott arrived in the UK 70 years ago today, orphaned by the Holocaust and far from his native home in Poland. Aged just 15, Helfgott’s short life had already been filled with horror. Apart from one of his sisters, the whole family was murdered by the Nazis. When the family was moved to the appalling conditions of the ghetto in Piotrków, his mother and sister went underground. But when the risk became too great for the Poles hiding them, they were forced to go back to the ghetto. The Nazis said that they would offer an amnesty to anyone who had returned illegally but immediately 520 of them were rounded up. Although Helfgott's father was able to organise a permit for the release of his wife, he could not save his daughter. But, refusing to abandon her child, Mrs Helfgott chose to remain with her youngest daughter. Both were executed in nearby woodlands.
After the liquidation of the ghetto, Helfgott was sent with his father to the concentration camp at Buchenwald, before becoming separated from him and moved on to heresienstadt. Tragically, his father was shot just a few days before the end of the war as he made a bid for freedom from a death march.
Returning to his home town, Poland, Helfgott found there was little left for him there.
He told HuffPost UK: “You can’t imagine what the situation we left behind was like. Most of us had lost our parents. Some went back to Poland but there was nobody there and they weren’t accepted. We didn’t know what our future was going to be, where we were going to go.” Far from a warm welcome, Helfgott was almost killed upon his return. “But then we received the wonderful news that there was an opportunity to go to Britain,” he said.
Helfgott was given the chance of a new life when he was brought to England by the Central British Fund for German Jewry (CBF) – the precursor to World Jewish Relief - as part of a transport of around 300 children. He explained: “Of course, this was something very special but for me especially because I was an Anglophile already - I had been from about eight or nine years old.
“I collected stamps from before the age of eight and the stories about them were very interesting, so I was very much aware of Britain. We lived next to the cinema so by the time I was seven years old, I would sometimes go by myself and watch the English films. Of course I didn’t speak English but there were subtitles in Polish. His family had also spoken highly of the country. He said: “When my father had a new suit, he always used to say ‘this cloth is from Britain’. The group of children, nicknamed The Boys despite including 80 girls, was taken to Windermere in the Lake District, where they began their new lives.
He said: “The weather couldn’t have been better, it was a golden autumn. We tried to learn English quickly. We played football, volleyball, we were involved in various cultural activities. We wanted to catch up on the six years we lost of going to school. When the war broke out, I was nine years old and when I came to England I was 15-and-a-half. I had lost all those years so I had to make it up. “Those first four months were wonderful. We enjoyed it, we went to the cinema.
“When we arrived, we were received very nicely by the local people. We were there for four months for recuperation. "No one could imagine what what we went through. The worst part was towards the end. Those whose managed to survive [almost until the end], many of them died. Many of the boys who came did not have a single brother, a single sister, not anything. They were just by themselves.” Even now Helfgott knows how lucky he was to be able to travel to the UK and the current European migrant crisis has left him deeply concerned. He said: “Yesterday as I watched it on television…I could not hold back my tears. I felt for them. “This is a very serious problem but it is very difficult to know what to do for the best. This is very much political - what happened to us was completely different from what is happening here now.” The Boys formed a tight bond as they grew up, staying in touch, attending each other’s weddings and other important events.
Helfgott was moved to Essex, along with 30 other Boys, and he finally settled in north London. Many of the children went on to become British citizens, including Helfgott, who applied as soon as he could.
He said: “It meant I was part of this country. I think this is the most wonderful country one can possibly be in. The opportunities people have when they come here are very special. Asked if he feels proud to be British, Helfgott said: “Very much so.”
He said: “For me to come to Britain was something very special and I still feel that way now.” Helfgott took his new status as a British citizen seriously and even went on to represent Team GB at the Olympics. It began when one day, during the school holidays, he was swimming on Hampstead Heath. Seeing some men weight training, Helfgott asked if he could have a go. Although sceptical, the men agreed and to their astonishment the 18-year-old lifted 180lbs with ease, according to the Holocaust Day Memorial Trust. From then, he was hooked. He went on to represent the country in the 1956 Melbourne Olympics as Team GB’s weightlifting captain and was also a bronze medal winner at the 1958 British Empire and Commonwealth Games.
He said: “I loved sport from the time I was five year old. I loved competing. Sport and education were the most important part of my life, so when I came to England, all I wanted to do was catch up.”
Helfgott, and many of the other Boys, were keen to give back to the country that took them in as orphans and so they set up the ’45 Aid Society, named after the year they came to the UK. He remained chair of the society for 46 years.
He explained: “We never asked anything from anybody, on the contrary. We had our own society from 1963, not only to help us but to help others. With all the help we received, our attitude was that we had to give back following the opportunity we were given to come to Britain.” He added: “Something that I have been fighting for all my life is to ensure that people get on with each other, people help each other.” Helfgott continues to do work alongside other ’45 Aid Society members to continue to teach the lessons of the Holocaust.
"The Holocaust is a legacy that belongs to us all. I ardently hope that the memory of the Holocaust will not be used to give us a clear conscience but it will permanently service to foster respect for human dignity and the fundamental values that underpin our civilisation."
World Jewish Relief has the records of tens of thousands of people who they helped to bring out of Nazi-occupied Europe. These can be accessed here.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/12/holocaust-survivor-olympic-weightlifter-ben-helfgott-pride-british_n_7978884.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
After the liquidation of the ghetto, Helfgott was sent with his father to the concentration camp at Buchenwald, before becoming separated from him and moved on to heresienstadt. Tragically, his father was shot just a few days before the end of the war as he made a bid for freedom from a death march.
Returning to his home town, Poland, Helfgott found there was little left for him there.
Ben Helfgott was thrilled to be given the chance of a new life in Britain
He told HuffPost UK: “You can’t imagine what the situation we left behind was like. Most of us had lost our parents. Some went back to Poland but there was nobody there and they weren’t accepted. We didn’t know what our future was going to be, where we were going to go.” Far from a warm welcome, Helfgott was almost killed upon his return. “But then we received the wonderful news that there was an opportunity to go to Britain,” he said.
Helfgott was given the chance of a new life when he was brought to England by the Central British Fund for German Jewry (CBF) – the precursor to World Jewish Relief - as part of a transport of around 300 children. He explained: “Of course, this was something very special but for me especially because I was an Anglophile already - I had been from about eight or nine years old.
Helfgott representing Team GB at the 1956 Olympics
“I collected stamps from before the age of eight and the stories about them were very interesting, so I was very much aware of Britain. We lived next to the cinema so by the time I was seven years old, I would sometimes go by myself and watch the English films. Of course I didn’t speak English but there were subtitles in Polish. His family had also spoken highly of the country. He said: “When my father had a new suit, he always used to say ‘this cloth is from Britain’. The group of children, nicknamed The Boys despite including 80 girls, was taken to Windermere in the Lake District, where they began their new lives.
He said: “The weather couldn’t have been better, it was a golden autumn. We tried to learn English quickly. We played football, volleyball, we were involved in various cultural activities. We wanted to catch up on the six years we lost of going to school. When the war broke out, I was nine years old and when I came to England I was 15-and-a-half. I had lost all those years so I had to make it up. “Those first four months were wonderful. We enjoyed it, we went to the cinema.
A group of The Boys in Prague before they left for the UK in 1945
“When we arrived, we were received very nicely by the local people. We were there for four months for recuperation. "No one could imagine what what we went through. The worst part was towards the end. Those whose managed to survive [almost until the end], many of them died. Many of the boys who came did not have a single brother, a single sister, not anything. They were just by themselves.” Even now Helfgott knows how lucky he was to be able to travel to the UK and the current European migrant crisis has left him deeply concerned. He said: “Yesterday as I watched it on television…I could not hold back my tears. I felt for them. “This is a very serious problem but it is very difficult to know what to do for the best. This is very much political - what happened to us was completely different from what is happening here now.” The Boys formed a tight bond as they grew up, staying in touch, attending each other’s weddings and other important events.
Helfgott was moved to Essex, along with 30 other Boys, and he finally settled in north London. Many of the children went on to become British citizens, including Helfgott, who applied as soon as he could.
Liberated men at Buchenwald, where Helfgott spent time before being sent on to Theresienstadt
He said: “It meant I was part of this country. I think this is the most wonderful country one can possibly be in. The opportunities people have when they come here are very special. Asked if he feels proud to be British, Helfgott said: “Very much so.”
He said: “For me to come to Britain was something very special and I still feel that way now.” Helfgott took his new status as a British citizen seriously and even went on to represent Team GB at the Olympics. It began when one day, during the school holidays, he was swimming on Hampstead Heath. Seeing some men weight training, Helfgott asked if he could have a go. Although sceptical, the men agreed and to their astonishment the 18-year-old lifted 180lbs with ease, according to the Holocaust Day Memorial Trust. From then, he was hooked. He went on to represent the country in the 1956 Melbourne Olympics as Team GB’s weightlifting captain and was also a bronze medal winner at the 1958 British Empire and Commonwealth Games.
He said: “I loved sport from the time I was five year old. I loved competing. Sport and education were the most important part of my life, so when I came to England, all I wanted to do was catch up.”
Helfgott, and many of the other Boys, were keen to give back to the country that took them in as orphans and so they set up the ’45 Aid Society, named after the year they came to the UK. He remained chair of the society for 46 years.
He explained: “We never asked anything from anybody, on the contrary. We had our own society from 1963, not only to help us but to help others. With all the help we received, our attitude was that we had to give back following the opportunity we were given to come to Britain.” He added: “Something that I have been fighting for all my life is to ensure that people get on with each other, people help each other.” Helfgott continues to do work alongside other ’45 Aid Society members to continue to teach the lessons of the Holocaust.
The Boys spent time catching up on their lost childhoods when they arrived in Britain
Several of The Boys will return to Lake Windermere on Friday to commemorate the anniversary of their arrival. Helfgott, who went on to marry and now has three sons and nine grandchildren, said: We came from hell to the Garden of Eden - a place of beauty and quiet. My new life began in the Lakes but I can never forget the life I had before and what happened to my family."The Holocaust is a legacy that belongs to us all. I ardently hope that the memory of the Holocaust will not be used to give us a clear conscience but it will permanently service to foster respect for human dignity and the fundamental values that underpin our civilisation."
World Jewish Relief has the records of tens of thousands of people who they helped to bring out of Nazi-occupied Europe. These can be accessed here.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/08/12/holocaust-survivor-olympic-weightlifter-ben-helfgott-pride-british_n_7978884.html?utm_hp_ref=uk
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:56 pm
Moved from Europe to Europe... Africans should be dealt with by the African union.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Fri Aug 14, 2015 2:03 pm
Tommy Monk wrote:Moved from Europe to Europe... Africans should be dealt with by the African union.
So again
What countries are classified as safe Tommy?
What countries take far more than the UK?
Some answers please to the questions?
Do you understand why countries world over taker in refugees?
Guest- Guest
Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Tommy Monk Fri Aug 14, 2015 5:29 pm
Come off it dodge... there are many places they could go and the African union should be responsible for them!
Are you seriously saying that in The vast continent of Africa, there are no safe places for them...!!!???
If Africans are that dangerous then why do you advocate so many of them coming here and being a danger to us!?
Are you seriously saying that in The vast continent of Africa, there are no safe places for them...!!!???
If Africans are that dangerous then why do you advocate so many of them coming here and being a danger to us!?
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
by Guest Fri Aug 14, 2015 8:58 pm
ref the post about holoccaust survivors
that was then this is now.....
different circumstances, different peoples, with different agendas and a wholey different view of life.
that was then this is now.....
different circumstances, different peoples, with different agendas and a wholey different view of life.
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Re: What’s Missing from the Debate About the Refugees in Calais Who Are Eager to Go to Britain
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» Quill
» Algerian Woman under investigation for torture and murder of French girl, 12, whose body was found in plastic case in Paris
» Wind turbines cool down the Earth (edited with better video link)
» Saying goodbye to our Queen.
» PHEW.
» And here's some more enrichment...
» John F Kennedy Assassination
» Where is everyone lately...?
» London violence over the weekend...
» Why should anyone believe anything that Mo Farah says...!?
» Liverpool Labour defends mayor role poll after turnout was only 3% and they say they will push ahead with the option that was least preferred!!!
» Labour leader Keir Stammer can't answer the simple question of whether a woman has a penis or not...
» More evidence of remoaners still trying to overturn Brexit... and this is a conservative MP who should be drummed out of the party and out of parliament!
» R Kelly 30 years, Ghislaine Maxwell 20 years... but here in UK...