Great video on just how messed up the recent UK election was

by Ben Reilly Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:43 pm

You should especially check out some of the philosophical points he makes after four minutes or so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9rGX91rq5I

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:53 pm

Yeah we know its broke....

any decent system would have returned a reasonable number of UKIP seats....

HOWEVER even broken its better than the lunacy you have where your "upper house" can paralyze govt and force funding crisis upon the "lower"

by Ben Reilly Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:18 pm

darknessss wrote:Yeah we know its broke....

any decent system would have returned a reasonable number of UKIP seats....

HOWEVER even broken its better than the lunacy you have where your "upper house" can paralyze govt and force funding crisis upon the "lower"

I wasn't trying to bash the UK or pretend the U.S. system isn't messed up as well, I just thought it was an interesting analysis of how unrepresentative the election outcome was. I especially liked the part toward the end where he pointed out that if you don't think there's something wrong with this outcome, you basically favor a form of "dictatorship lite."

by Guest Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:26 pm

like I said some of us at least know well how broken the system is.....

It quite simply reeks....

by Tommy Monk Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:36 pm

UKIP got more votes than SNP and lib dems combined!!!

UKIP should still be getting more air time than SNP and lib dems too!!!

Especially as UKIP also have a majority of votes and seats in EU, and that they are the only party that Is truly in favour of us leaving the EU!!!

Excluding UKIP from the argument leaves only a collective of completely biased pro EU argument remaining!!!

What happened to free, fair, honest and balanced debate...!!!???

Must be something to do with 'equality' and 'inclusion'...

lol!

by Ben Reilly Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:UKIP got more votes than SNP and lib dems combined!!!

UKIP should still be getting more air time than SNP and lib dems too!!!

Especially as UKIP also have a majority of votes and seats in EU, and that they are the only party that Is truly in favour of us leaving the EU!!!

Excluding UKIP from the argument leaves only a collective of completely biased pro EU argument remaining!!!

What happened to free, fair, honest and balanced debate...!!!???

Must be something to do with 'equality' and 'inclusion'...

So now you're blaming the problems of the UK electoral system on "equality and inclusion"?

Are you by any chance posting from an insane asylum?

by veya_victaous Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:29 am

darknessss wrote:like I said some of us at least know well how broken the system is.....

It quite simply reeks....

it's not broken it is working as the creators/modifiers of it intended Wink

Ohh what? you though it was supposed to fair Cool

I was thinking the other day, if the EU were fully established it would be a legitimate 3rd power between the USA and China, the main anti EU sentiment seem to come from the US corporate oligarchy promoting Murdoch press. By excluding the UK from the EU the UK would be forced to accept some sort of US oppression like the TPP, the US corporate oligarchy would then control the entire English speaking world with the right to sue the gov't if they legislate anything that damages their profits.
here it is the same the Murdoch press never mentions any of the TPP details even though it is probably the biggest pieces of legislation passed by the current gov't, constant propaganda attacking those that would be an alternative to the Corporate oligarchy being pressed on the English speaking west.

by Guest Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:36 am

even IF tpp was accepted by a govt here ...how long do you think it would be till they were removed...

and the yank oligarchs told to fkkk off....

I mean what they going to do ...invade???

ok so they get a judgement from their bent justice system....

cant pay wont pay works quite well

ALSO another govt COULD quite easily reverse it....

rules..... NO parliament shall bind another......

OK so it might cause ill feeling but hey stuff the so called "special relationship"

we are NOT the 51st state and truth be told we'd probably be better with a partnership with Russia the way America is going.....

by veya_victaous Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:50 am

darknessss wrote:even IF tpp was accepted by a govt here ...how long do you think it would be till they were removed...

and the yank oligarchs told to fkkk off....

I mean what they going to do ...invade???

ok so they get a judgement from their bent justice system....

cant pay wont pay works quite well

ALSO another govt COULD quite easily reverse it....

rules..... NO parliament shall bind another......

OK so it might cause ill feeling but hey stuff the so called "special relationship"

we are NOT the 51st state and truth be told we'd probably be better with a partnership with Russia the way America is going.....

except that under the TPP there is fines that we(Abbott) have agreed to pay for doing that, it is defiantly trying to bind us so we have no options. Only China is giving us an out and the Murdoch press is now trying to sour Aussie relations with China.

And with out Europe to support you, you will be a drift too. separated from the flock they will take you down

and Yeah sort of agree with the Russia thing, our deal is China... those ex-commies are looking quite inviting by alternative Wink

and the agreement SPECIFICALLY binds future parliaments... yes the constitutional validity is questioned

by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:16 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:UKIP got more votes than SNP and lib dems combined!!!

UKIP should still be getting more air time than SNP and lib dems too!!!

Especially as UKIP also have a majority of votes and seats in EU, and that they are the only party that Is truly in favour of us leaving the EU!!!

Excluding UKIP from the argument leaves only a collective of completely biased pro EU argument remaining!!!

What happened to free, fair, honest and balanced debate...!!!???

Must be something to do with 'equality' and 'inclusion'...

So now you're blaming the problems of the UK electoral system on "equality and inclusion"?

Are you by any chance posting from an insane asylum?

What I am doing is pointing out the only only political party/voice that speaks completely in favour of leaving the EU, has more votes than the SNP and lib dems combined, plus the most votes and seats in The EU, are getting absolutely no broadcasting air time here now in The UK.

All we have seen broadcast in recent weeks by way of argument on EU membership, has been completely from pro EU party's!!!

Why is it that the only party actually in favour of leaving the EU is now being left out of any broadcast debate or discussion on The issue!!!???

What happened to balance, independence, equality and inclusion?

Fascist dictatorship anyone...!!!???

by Fluffyx Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:32 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:You should especially check out some of the philosophical points he makes after four minutes or so:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9rGX91rq5I

I will look at this later when I log back in. What I do know is that with this General Election the turkeys have voted for christmas.

Austerity is not set to continue, pouncing on the already poverty stricken with a sort of malicious glee under a deliberately chuckleworthy facade of balancing the books is not austerity- it is wanton unjust cruelty. The elite want the divide between rich and poor to widen and now it certainly will.

What astounds me is not the agenda of the elite, although their lack of both compassion and wisdom is regrettable ,but the millions of seemingly decent hard working people who have voted to be made poorer by Tory legislation. Suspect

The bankers caused the collapse, not the poor, not those struggling on aero hour contracts or having to resort to food banks to feed their kids.

I can only imagine how the Tories must be laughing, their plans have succeeded beyond any reasonable expectation they might ever have had.

by Fluffyx Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:38 pm

darknessss wrote:Yeah we know its broke....

any decent system would have returned a reasonable number of UKIP seats....

I don't think UKIP influence can lead to anything but division and bigotry.

I'm glad they only managed to get one seat.

by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:51 pm

Labour caused the problems by importing millions of foreigners which pushed up the cost of living while driving down wage and then by borrowing increasing amounts of billions upon billions every year to prop up the then failing economic situation in extra benefits, more school places for foreigners children, increase in public sector jobs And quangos for many of these foreigners to work in etc...

If labour hadn't left govt with an annual borrowing of £170 billion and rising then there wouldn't need to be any reductions in spending.

by Fluffyx Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:27 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Labour caused the problems by importing millions of foreigners which pushed up the cost of living while driving down wage and then by borrowing increasing amounts of billions upon billions every year to prop up the then failing economic situation in extra benefits, more school places for foreigners children, increase in public sector jobs And quangos for many of these foreigners to work in etc...

If labour hadn't left govt with an annual borrowing of £170 billion and rising then there wouldn't need to be any reductions in spending.

Don't get me wrong, I have no time for Labour either. They are merely Tory Lite.

But I don't believe this balls regarding "balancing the books". The fatcat bankers that caused this collapse are actually getting bonuses and payrises ergo they are being rewarded for their catastrophic negligence and normal everyday people are paying the price.

That is so absurd and unfair that it defies all logic and sanity.

The Tories only care about the elite and are determined to create and now keep the underclass struggling, without money, without power, without hope. Some of their policies i.e the bedroom tax are inhumane as well as being incredibly crass and actually on inspection, rather stupid.

Labour are not an alternative as I see it currently. They are too similar to the Tories and not left wing as I understand the definition.

As for the video Ben posted, I agree also are voting system is wholly inadequate and well, frankly, wrong! We should have the PR system instead but I say that through gritted teeth as that would sadly mean many UKIP seats. However on the flip side, it would also mean more Greens who for too long have been a lone echo of compassion admist a sea of sharks.

This country is a mess.

by Guest Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:29 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:Labour caused the problems by importing millions of foreigners which pushed up the cost of living while driving down wage and then by borrowing increasing amounts of billions upon billions every year to prop up the then failing economic situation in extra benefits, more school places for foreigners children, increase in public sector jobs And quangos for many of these foreigners to work in etc...

If labour hadn't left govt with an annual borrowing of £170 billion and rising then there wouldn't need to be any reductions in spending.

Don't get me wrong, I have no time for Labour either. They are merely Tory Lite.

But I don't believe this balls regarding "balancing the books". The fatcat bankers that caused this collapse are actually getting bonuses and payrises ergo they are being rewarded for their catastrophic negligence and normal everyday people are paying the price.

That is so absurd and unfair that it defies all logic and sanity.

The Tories only care about the elite and are determined to create and nnow keep the underclass struggling, without money, without power, without hope. Some of their policies i.e the bedroom tax are inhumane as well as being incredibly crass and actually on inspection, rather stupid.

Labour are not an alternative as I see it currently. They are too similar to the Tories and not left wing as I understand the definition.

As for the video Ben posted, I agree also are voting system is wholly inadequate and well, frankly, wrong! We should have the PR system instead but I say that through gritted teeth as that would sadly mean many UKIP seats. However on the flip side, it would also mean more Greens who for too long have been a lone echo of compassion admist a sea of sharks.

This country is a mess.

Great video on just how messed up the recent UK election was 3489511464

Great video on just how messed up the recent UK election was 3408175593

by Fluffyx Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:51 pm

darknessss wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I have no time for Labour either. They are merely Tory Lite.

But I don't believe this balls regarding "balancing the books". The fatcat bankers that caused this collapse are actually getting bonuses and payrises ergo they are being rewarded for their catastrophic negligence and normal everyday people are paying the price.

That is so absurd and unfair that it defies all logic and sanity.

The Tories only care about the elite and are determined to create and nnow keep the underclass struggling, without money, without power, without hope. Some of their policies i.e the bedroom tax are inhumane as well as being incredibly crass and actually on inspection, rather stupid.

Labour are not an alternative as I see it currently. They are too similar to the Tories and not left wing as I understand the definition.

As for the video Ben posted, I agree also are voting system is wholly inadequate and well, frankly, wrong! We should have the PR system instead but I say that through gritted teeth as that would sadly mean many UKIP seats. However on the flip side, it would also mean more Greens who for too long have been a lone echo of compassion admist a sea of sharks.

This country is a mess.

I thought some may enjoy that Razz

I stand by it cheers

by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:34 pm

Mass immigration has caused the problems in economy.

We have imported millions of people who pay very little into the tax system but who then have £6000 cost to tax system for each of The children they have.

Extra school places which also need additional costs in building schools for.

Plus NHS costs etc...

While also getting given extra money in benefits in child benefit and tax credits etc...

And after the additional effect of The mass immigration on driving up costs of living while driving down wages...

Economic madness!!!

by veya_victaous Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:22 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Mass immigration has caused the problems in economy. wouldn't you need to have mass immigration for it to be a problem?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_net_migration_rate

you are 38th you take half the amount as Australia, only slightly more than the USA. in the REAL world the UK does not have mass immigration

We have imported millions of people who pay very little into the tax system but who then have £6000 cost to tax system for each of The children they have.

Extra school places which also need additional costs in building schools for.

Plus NHS costs etc...

While also getting given extra money in benefits in child benefit and tax credits etc...

And after the additional effect of The mass immigration on driving up costs of living while driving down wages...

Economic madness!!!

So your issue is having to do what almost every other nation does Rolling Eyes

by Tommy Monk Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:28 pm

Incomparable and waffle veya...!

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 12:01 am

FluffyBunny wrote:
darknessss wrote:

You mean you stand by the party whos aim is permanant deflation and austerity?

who would have us impoverished with no transport?

who would have us without the power we need ?

oh and who's representative couldnt even remember what they were supposed to be proposing as their ideas in an interview....

Sheeesh.......

you certainly ARE fluffy.......

I thought some may enjoy that

I stand by it

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:05 am

Like it or not Tommy is right, Labour allowed uncontrolled immigration because they thought they would vote Labour.
You cant compare Australia to England that's just silly.
That mass influx of people has impacted on every area of our infrastructure. As the damage is being done mainly in the Midlands and North the leafy south east is largely unaffected and allows some to twitter on about all the supposed benefits of immigrants.
Go and have a look round Bradford or Birmingham and see how our streets have changed.
Oh and there is a reason they don't stop at bloody Calais, its because the French are not so bloody daft!

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:39 am

Thanks Nems... I only speak the truth and I appreciate youre integrity in honesty over partisan alliances.

Although you are mistaken to believe the southeast/London is anything but completely affected by it all..!

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:40 am

Nems wrote:Like it or not Tommy is right, Labour allowed uncontrolled immigration because they thought they would vote Labour.
You cant compare Australia to England that's just silly.
That mass influx of people has impacted on every area of our infrastructure. As the damage is being done mainly in the Midlands and North the leafy south east is largely unaffected and allows some to twitter on about all the supposed benefits of immigrants.
Go and have a look round Bradford or Birmingham and see how our streets have changed.
Oh and there is a reason they don't stop at bloody Calais, its because the French are not so bloody daft!

Incorrect.
As much as I think Labour are idiots, they had little control over immigration from the EU, which is where most immigration came from after 2000. It is in fact the fault of the British people of those who lived on a benefit culture. In that aspect Labour and partly the Tories are fault for having a benefit system that made it far easier and financially better to not have to work. This still does not excuse the fact many could have taken up jobs but had a poor work ethos deeming jobs beneath them. This created an influx of immigrants needed to fill jobs as a substantial amount of British people were not willing to do. People can argue off the wages, but the fact is we have become a center of business and economic growth due to the fact are wages are cheaper than most within the EU itself. It hence brought many business to this country, which without, we would never have recovered from the recession.

The fact is it is the South East that by far has received the most immigration where there has been little unrest with immigration, only in pockets has their been moaning. Its no good blaming Governments for the failings of people in this country who did not take up work, as by not taking up work that they deemed beneath them, created a huge need for foreign workers to fill many vacancies. The demographics have been changing in this country for centuries, granted more rapidly in the last century, but the only issue comes from those not willing to integrate whether immigrants or citizens. Thus the problem has been where there has been a need of employees to areas, again all of which would not have happened if people had taken up work that was available. Then immigrants coming to these shores would have found little work and an opportunity to stay. I get tired of reading the poor excuses, which in all reality the British people created the problem they moan of themselves. So if people want to moan at something, moan at the real cause of the levels of immigration, the British people themselves.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:56 am

Fuck off dodge... labour opened the taps on immigration straight after taking office in 1997, and steamed through the pro EU treaties that followed that allowed uncontrolled EU mass immigration from all the east EU countries after 2003...

Labour had everything to do with It!!!

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:00 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Fuck off dodge... labour opened the taps on immigration straight after taking office in 1997, and steamed through the pro EU treaties that followed that allowed uncontrolled EU mass immigration from all the east EU countries after 2003...

Labour had everything to do with It!!!

No I am not going to fuck off you pathetic little immature runt. I have easily proven you are talking the biggest load of shit as per usual. The facts are clear. There would be little immigration if there was no jobs for immigrants to take up, you cannot deny this fact. The fact that there was and industries crying out of people to fill vaccines proves the fact many British people were far more prepared to sit on their arses than work. It is they who created the mass immigration. Without work, immigrants would have not been able to stay very long. You can attempt to ignore the facts all you like, but many times i have proven to you when the mass immigration started it had many employers screaming out for vacancies to be filled which British people deemed beneath them.

Laters

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:10 am

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:50 pm

Thanks that backs my point very well Tommy

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:39 pm

This mass influx of people cost us more than they ever contribute in taxation and have also pushed up the cost of living and driven down wages.

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:This mass influx of people cost us more than they ever contribute in taxation and have also pushed up the cost of living and driven down wages.

Wrong again, all evidence points especially to EU immigrants and migrants creating wealth, boosting the economy and business coming to this country because they were willing to take up jobs that some lazy Brits will not and still will not do. Wages have gone up and if they had gone up to much we would lose business and industries here to nations with cheaper wages. Is it fair not really but its better with have the business than less business and more people out of work. You just keep repeating the UKIP bible daily failing to understand many things

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:05 pm

Bullshit dodge... many don't even work at all and most of those who do only do low wage work and contribute almost nothing to The tax system while the costs of each of their children at school is £6000 each.

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:15 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Bullshit dodge... many don't even work at all and most of those who do only do low wage work and contribute almost nothing to The tax system while the costs of each of their children at school is £6000 each.

Tommy Bloopers long list of pathetic rebuttals.

Fuck off Dodge
Bullshit Dodge
Waffle Dodge

Boring you immature child

Again you are going off one factor ignoring countless other factors showing just like your conspiracies they are utterly flawed

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:21 pm

One factor?

We are told we need immigrants to boost the economy etc but they only pay a little into the tax system while costing £6000 a year per childs school place alone!!!

Then add on child benefits and tax credits etc and it is a massive net loss to our finances!!!

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:24 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:One factor?

We are told we need immigrants to boost the economy etc but they only pay a little into the tax system while costing £6000 a year per childs school place alone!!!

Then add on child benefits and tax credits etc and it is a massive net loss to our finances!!!

Yes you have given one factor and I can counter many to the tune of between 5 billion to 20 billion they have helped the economy with.
Add on child benefits?
Do you really understand how pitiful the amount is claimed on benefits by EU immigrants and migrants?

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:49 pm

Talking about all immigrants dodge...

Majority are low wage earners (if working at all), who contribute very little but then cost us £6000 per child school place per year and then get handouts of child benefit and tax credits so net drain on our tax system and economy.

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:51 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Talking about all immigrants dodge...

Majority are low wage earners (if working at all), who contribute very little but then cost us £6000 per child school place per year and then get handouts of child benefit and tax credits so net drain on our tax system and economy.

Are they?
Shows how little you know about EU migrants.
Stop going by the UKIP bible, like the religious bible its full of contradictions

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:56 pm

Talking about all immigrants dodge...

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:57 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Talking about all immigrants dodge...

Are you now, still not as bad as people born here if Non-Eu immigrants

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:22 pm

The facts remain dodge!!!

Driven up costs of living, driven down wages and these mainly low wage earning immigrants contribute very little to tax system while their children cost us £6000 each in school places per year alone.

That Is why our economy is fucked!!!

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:29 pm

No facts, you are wrong and have been proven wrong countless times on this and you always go around in circles.

I have no need to say anymore here

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:32 pm

Like I said, Tommy is right about the effect uncontrolled immigration has had on our infrastructure and services. No amount of insulting makes that change

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:34 pm

Nems wrote:Like I said, Tommy is right about the effect uncontrolled immigration has had on our infrastructure and services. No amount of insulting makes that change

Wrong again. The nations leaders did not act to the rise of immigration.
That is not immigrants fault, that is the governments faults for not reacting to growing needs.
What insulting?
There is none except the only thing that is insulting is people blaming immigrants all the time, for just wanting a new life and as seen it is other factors that create the problems.

Laters Nems

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 7:54 pm

Belatucadros wrote:
Nems wrote:Like I said, Tommy is right about the effect uncontrolled immigration has had on our infrastructure and services. No amount of insulting makes that change

Wrong again. The nations leaders did not act to the rise of immigration.
That is not immigrants fault, that is the governments faults for not reacting to growing needs.
What insulting?
There is none except the only thing that is insulting is people blaming immigrants all the time, for just wanting a new life and as seen it is other factors that create the problems.

Laters Nems

never said immigrants were to blame

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:27 pm

The facts remain dodge... immigration has fucked us up!!!

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:31 pm

Nems wrote:
Belatucadros wrote:

Wrong again. The nations leaders did not act to the rise of immigration.
That is not immigrants fault, that is the governments faults for not reacting to growing needs.
What insulting?
There is none except the only thing that is insulting is people blaming immigrants all the time, for just wanting a new life and as seen it is other factors that create the problems.

Laters Nems

never said immigrants were to blame

I am sorry but that just does not cut it Nems, your words speak otherwise and very easy to see when they do:

Go and have a look round Bradford or Birmingham and see how our streets have changed.
Oh and there is a reason they don't stop at bloody Calais, its because the French are not so bloody daft!

How can the streets have changed Nems?
In the manor of infrastructure?
Hardly, such a statement would make no sense.
The only change that you could possibly speak of is a rise in the number of people with darker skin or the rise of the number of people that hail from a different culture.
Your finger is thus still pointing at immigrants.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:40 pm

The facts remain dodge... immigration has fucked us up in many ways!!!

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:43 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The facts remain dodge... immigration has fucked us up in many ways!!!

No, immigration did not.
Government policy did.

You see Nems, that is a fine example of blaming immigrants by Tommy.
His answer is immigration fucked us up. No, Government inaction did and bitter people who blame others for their failings.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:48 pm

Immigration has fucked us up... the governments who allowed it are to blame... as are those who arrive here with no loyalty to us or our country and are only here for what they can get out of it... this is of course not all immigrants but a huge proportion!!!

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:49 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:Immigration has fucked us up... the governments who allowed it are to blame... as are those who arrive here with no loyalty to us or our country and are only here for what they can get out of it... this is of course not all immigrants but a huge proportion!!!

Yes we understand you can read a script Tommy Blooper.
Its called the UKIP bible.
Counter against the points, not babble.

by Tommy Monk Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:16 pm

I have made my points dodge.

And I stand by them!

by Guest Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:18 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:I have made my points dodge.

And I stand by them!

Well a wall is no help when your points are in perpetual intoxication.
You had no points.

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