Race and Intelligence : Science's Last Taboo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao8W2tPujeE


Best statement from this video.

Why is it do you think the debate intelligence and race has gone on for so long? (ad lib)

"Because we live in a racist society, its that simple. The question on whether there is differences of intelligence between black and white people would not make any sense unless you lived in a racist society."

I wish I was as smart as Oprah Winfrey -- black and a woman to boot! Oh, and hounded by right-wing rumors she's a lesbian. That's got to be some kind of triple crown, because it's well known that the Civil Rights Movement associated with Martin Luther King et al had little to do with women's rights and even less to do with gay rights.

Ben_Reilly wrote:I wish I was as smart as Oprah Winfrey -- black and a woman to boot! Oh, and hounded by right-wing rumors she's a lesbian. That's got to be some kind of triple crown, because it's well known that the Civil Rights Movement associated with Martin Luther King et al had little to do with women's rights and even less to do with gay rights.

You should watch the video, as it easily dispels any such claim there is an racial differences in intelligence, but the sad part is that it certainly highlights the major problems of "class" and social economics in society.

Belatucadros wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I wish I was as smart as Oprah Winfrey -- black and a woman to boot! Oh, and hounded by right-wing rumors she's a lesbian. That's got to be some kind of triple crown, because it's well known that the Civil Rights Movement associated with Martin Luther King et al had little to do with women's rights and even less to do with gay rights.

You should watch the video, as it easily dispels any such claim there is an racial differences, but the sad part is that it certainly highlights the major problems of "class" and social economics in society.

I think that the racial differences issue is in part an American disease, and it's because talking about class differences and income disparity is still such a taboo here in the land of "opportunity" ...

Basically, in order to have a discussion about poverty and social justice you basically have to bring up race, if you're having the conversation in the U.S. Because we'll talk about things that hurt minorities, but we have a harder time when we have to confront the fact that lower-class people of any race have far more in common with one another than they do with the wealthy of any race.

Hats off to Obama though, he went there, addressing the extreme poverty suffered by white people in Appalachia in his inaugural address:

"... Our journey is not complete until our wives, our mothers and daughters can earn a living equal to their efforts. Our journey is not complete until our gay brothers and sisters are treated like anyone else under the law –- for if we are truly created equal, then surely the love we commit to one another must be equal as well. Our journey is not complete until no citizen is forced to wait for hours to exercise the right to vote. Our journey is not complete until we find a better way to welcome the striving, hopeful immigrants who still see America as a land of opportunity -- until bright young students and engineers are enlisted in our workforce rather than expelled from our country. Our journey is not complete until all our children, from the streets of Detroit to the hills of Appalachia, to the quiet lanes of Newtown, know that they are cared for and cherished and always safe from harm."

(By the way, that's what the left in the U.S. is basically all about)

The (pseudo) science of phrenology ... and Ben



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQM4ebFILv4

(This is what white people really believed)

I agree with everything you say bar one, the confused illogical parameter based on left and right, where many views cross over into both for many people. The belief on socially being right on views of left and right to one being superior is steeped in the very same methodology of intelligence and race. It is the ability to reason with each other that helps further understanding between people, where classifying people by political leanings is as bad as classifying by race. That is one aspect you need to alter about yourself Ben, because many people stand opposed to social injustices whether left or right. Just as we need to close the gap between the education and intelligence for all people, we need to do the same on political divide, as the more distance we place between the two only leads to the worst extremes. Hence why we need to close the political social gap also

Belatucadros wrote:I agree with everything you say par one, the confused illogical parameter based on left and right, where many views cross over into both for many people. The belief on socially being right on views of left and right to one being superior is steeped in the very same methodology of intelligence and race. It is the ability to reason with each other that helps further understanding between people, where classifying people by political leanings is as bad as classifying by race. That is one aspect you need to alter about yourself Ben, because many people stand opposed to social injustices whether left or right. Just as we need to close the gap between the education and intelligence for all people, we need to do the same on political divide, as the more distance we place between the two only leads to the worst extremes. Hence why we need to close the political social gap also

I don't disagree with you, I just don't think you know me well enough yet

At the predecessor to this site, I posted a fairly moving tribute, if I do say so myself, to this woman, a conservative who helped educate the world what David Duke, the former KKK leader who ran many times for office, was really about:

Elizabeth Ann "Beth" Rickey (June 11, 1956 – September 12, 2009)[1] was a Republican political activist from Louisiana who exposed the neo-Nazi connections[2] of former State Representative David Duke, who ran for the U.S. Senate and for governor of Louisiana in 1990 and 1991, respectively, under the GOP label though opposed by the party leadership.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beth_Rickey

Ben_Reilly wrote:I wish I was as smart as Oprah Winfrey -- black and a woman to boot! Oh, and hounded by right-wing rumors she's a lesbian. That's got to be some kind of triple crown, because it's well known that the Civil Rights Movement associated with Martin Luther King et al had little to do with women's rights and even less to do with gay rights.

Are you trying to be funny again?

Belatucadros wrote:Best statement from this video.

Why is it do you think the debate intelligence and race has gone on for so long? (ad lib)

"Because we live in a racist society, its that simple. The question on whether there is differences of intelligence between black and white people would not make any sense unless you lived in a racist society."

This is the issue that got me appointed to the Admissions Committee at Rutgers University, whereupon I formed and chaired the Admissions Standards Committee.  These were the questions.

Historical Exercise No. 1, Slavery:  To bring it down to earth, we need to recount the same story we have heard forever.  Race group A enslaves race group B, and puts them to work at menial labor for 500-years.  They weed your fields, make your tea in the morning, bathe your children, do other lesser chores for you.  

Alternatively, because you know deep down that there is something wrong with this social arrangement, you withhold education and paths to wealth from them.  Erm…it’s an unstable—at best—situation that you don’t want to upset.

Results:  After 500-years, Race A achieves quite well, and substantially better than Race B.

Historical Exercise No. 2, post-Slavery (‘separate-but-equal, segregation, modern racial bias):  Parts of Race A (Race A-1) wrestle with that “something wrong” and this divides the nation into a pro-slavery group (Race A-2) and an anti-slavery group (Race A-1).  Mind-games in the form of scholarly papers pass back and forth as the pro-slavery group tries to justify itself, and the anti-slavery group tries to counter.  Cases get to the Supreme Court: Dred Scott case is decided.  Missouri Compromise is passed in Congress, as is the 1850 Compromise.

The debate becomes so heated that a Civil War ensues.  Those that recognized that there was “something wrong” win the war, those that lost sublimate their anger and lick their wounds for 159-years.  

The anger among Race A-2 losers festers and stews.  Symbols such as guns and the 2nd Amendment, become badges of freedom for them.  Issues like states’ rights become the hope of the losers…for simplicity, and historical truth, let’s call them what they were during the war: the racially motivated South.  A sense of social alienation sets in (states-rights and secession being the perfect policy expressions for alienation).

Race A (-1 and -2, though -2 is more direct) continues to disadvantage the now free slaves, Race B, and provide them with the worst of resources of society: food, shelter, education, opportunity.

Results:  After 150-years, Race A holds on to its hegemony over Race B.  A sense of fight back begins amid Race B, much as  never again permeated the ranks of Jews after WWII.  Black power arises; so does Black crime.

Historical Exercise No. 3, today:  Race A continues in its privileged role; however Race B has bettered itself substantially.  But we have 500-years of brutality, social suppression, denial of resources and ostracizing to overcome.  Rome wasn’t built in a day.

Nevertheless, substantial improvement takes place and a Black president is elected.  Race A-2 goes apoplectic and shuts down the government.  Paralysis sets in.

Result:  Recognize this?  While progress is slowly taking place, the nation is still predominately racist and Race B is still stigmatized.

IQ tests are just a self-fulfilling prophecy for their makers.  They express: how to be like us.  If “us” is racist, so too will be our tests.

Race B would love to be like Race A, but until Race A stops devoting its life to assuring the difference (racism), it will never happen.

Lesson: Don’t take measures of ethnocentricity so seriously.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I wish I was as smart as Oprah Winfrey -- black and a woman to boot! Oh, and hounded by right-wing rumors she's a lesbian. That's got to be some kind of triple crown, because it's well known that the Civil Rights Movement associated with Martin Luther King et al had little to do with women's rights and even less to do with gay rights.

Are you trying to be funny again?

You fail to understand his meaning.

Belatucadros wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:I wish I was as smart as Oprah Winfrey -- black and a woman to boot! Oh, and hounded by right-wing rumors she's a lesbian. That's got to be some kind of triple crown, because it's well known that the Civil Rights Movement associated with Martin Luther King et al had little to do with women's rights and even less to do with gay rights.

Are you trying to be funny again?

You fail to understand his meaning.

I don't think she even tries half the time

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

You fail to understand his meaning.

I don't think she even tries half the time

Do stop tag-teaming with that idiot.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

You fail to understand his meaning.

I don't think she even tries half the time

Do stop tag-teaming with that idiot.

Make me.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Do stop tag-teaming with that idiot.

Make me.

Hiding behind him does you no favours.

Hiding and tag teaming because they agree with each other on this subject?

risingsun wrote:Hiding and tag teaming because they agree with each other on this subject?  

No, because Didge had a pop at me, and Ben backslapped him.

Raggamuffin wrote:

risingsun wrote:Hiding and tag teaming because they agree with each other on this subject?  

No, because Didge had a pop at me, and Ben backslapped him.

I've been the butt of his pops many times. If you honestly think him saying 'You fail to understand his meaning.' is a pop, you are being ulta sensitive. You did, quite obviously, fail to understand his meaning.

risingsun wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

No, because Didge had a pop at me, and Ben backslapped him.

I've been the butt of his pops many times.  If you honestly think him saying 'You fail to understand his meaning.' is a pop, you are being ulta sensitive.  You did, quite obviously, fail to understand his meaning.

Well IMO, he jumps in far too often to reply on behalf of others and to stick his beak in.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

You fail to understand his meaning.

I don't think she even tries half the time

Indeed, I misunderstood you on another part of this thread and can easily admit that I did. Shame really when others do not.

Well I can't stand Oprah Winfrey no matter what her sex or colour: she's a suck-up and totally bile-inducing....

"Let's clap this cat who ate some food after losing a leg!! Woo! And dedicate a whole, mind-numbingly boring programme to brave cats so I may make people cry and people may love me cos I is well emotional"

Yeah yeah Harpo (Oprah backwards)

She's brought some amazing literature to people's attention, I stated reading Maya Angelou because of things she said. She does charity work that helps thousands of girls around the world and if you read about her early life with her mother after she was taken from her grandmother, it's a wonder she stayed sane.

Yes, she can be 'happy clappy', but I have a great admiration for somone who, with her background, and black and a women has not only done fantastic things herself, but has enabled girls all over the world to have a better life and follow their dreams.

Point taken.
I think it's her show that I find nauseating.

She was a great actress in The Colour Purple - one of my favourite films.