Running away

Why are EU countries not doing more to stop isis murdering their way across the Middle East? I noticed on bbc news the Iraqi Army [spit] are doing a runner from Ramada before they get there. They need to be stopped by a well equipped and trained Army before they take over the whole Middle East! At the moment it's only the Kurds [I think] putting up any real resistance!

nicko wrote:Why   are EU countries not doing more to stop isis  murdering their way across the Middle East?  I noticed on  bbc news the Iraqi Army [spit]  are doing a runner from Ramada before they get there. They need to be stopped by a well equipped and trained Army before they take over the whole Middle East! At the moment it's only the Kurds [I think] putting up any real resistance!

They have done a bit of bombing, but not enough to stop ISIS. I reckon the UK is wary because of the Iraq invasion - it didn't do a lot of good in the long run really.

nicko wrote:Why   are EU countries not doing more to stop isis  murdering their way across the Middle East?  I noticed on  bbc news the Iraqi Army [spit]  are doing a runner from Ramada before they get there. They need to be stopped by a well equipped and trained Army before they take over the whole Middle East! At the moment it's only the Kurds [I think] putting up any real resistance!

the iraqi army is not that though is it, much of the resistance is made up of militias controlled by iran. there in lies the rub of the policy of getting out of iraq and afghanistan at any cost. We left the country's wide open to years more of terror and murder.
It also meant the ultimate sacrifice made by so many US and UK soldiers was totally in vain.


Iraq and afghanistan were not ready to go it alone and we are seeing the consequences of that now.
It will be only a matter of time before there will have to be professional boots on the ground again.

the only good bit of news on the horizon is that the EU are seeking a mandate to start sinking Daesh's people carrying boats in harbour, rather than letting then make money out of the misery they cause and bringing their own 5th column into europe.

Raggamuffin wrote:

nicko wrote:Why   are EU countries not doing more to stop isis  murdering their way across the Middle East?  I noticed on  bbc news the Iraqi Army [spit]  are doing a runner from Ramada before they get there. They need to be stopped by a well equipped and trained Army before they take over the whole Middle East! At the moment it's only the Kurds [I think] putting up any real resistance!

They have done a bit of bombing, but not enough to stop ISIS. I reckon the UK is wary because of the Iraq invasion - it didn't do a lot of good in the long run really.

the UK's bombing has been very limited and so far confined to Iraq. the US should be stationing drones over places like Raqqa and mosul and other hotbeds of Daesh activity and attacking every target of opportunity. when crowds gather to murder another homosexual or behead, burn or shoot people they should be attacked. those attending are not innocent as can be seen by the way they clamour for the best view of the latest atrocity.
Daesh should be made to cower in holes for fear of death raining down from the sky.
We need to get 110% behind the kurds in syria and Iraq, as they have managed to hold off Daesh with little more than small arms. Daesh are not unstoppable, they just need people with the will to stop them. and that so far has not been either the British or american government.

When they start crossing the Channel the government might get a little worried.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

nicko wrote:Why   are EU countries not doing more to stop isis  murdering their way across the Middle East?  I noticed on  bbc news the Iraqi Army [spit]  are doing a runner from Ramada before they get there. They need to be stopped by a well equipped and trained Army before they take over the whole Middle East! At the moment it's only the Kurds [I think] putting up any real resistance!

the iraqi army is not that though is it, much of the resistance is made up of militias controlled by iran. there in lies the rub of the policy of getting out of iraq and afghanistan at any cost. We left the country's wide open to years more of terror and murder.
It also meant the ultimate sacrifice made by so many US and UK soldiers was totally in vain.


Iraq and afghanistan were not ready to go it alone and we are seeing the consequences of that now.
It will be only a matter of time before there will have to be professional boots on the ground again.

the only good bit of news on the horizon is that the EU are seeking a mandate to start sinking Daesh's people carrying boats in harbour, rather than letting then make money out of the misery they cause and bringing their own 5th column into europe.

Why Bush and Blair couldn't foresee what would happen in Iraq is a mystery. They seemed to think that we would "win" in a few weeks and that would be it. Even a child could see that it wouldn't end there.

The Devil, You Know wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

They have done a bit of bombing, but not enough to stop ISIS. I reckon the UK is wary because of the Iraq invasion - it didn't do a lot of good in the long run really.

the UK's bombing has been very limited and so far confined to Iraq. the US should be stationing drones over places like Raqqa and mosul and other hotbeds of Daesh activity and attacking every target of opportunity. when crowds gather to murder another homosexual or behead, burn or shoot people they should be attacked. those attending are not innocent as can be seen by the way they clamour for the best view of the latest atrocity.
Daesh should be made to cower in holes for fear of death raining down from the sky.
We need to get 110% behind the kurds in syria and Iraq, as they have managed to hold off Daesh with little more than small arms. Daesh are not unstoppable, they just need people with the will to stop them. and that so far has not been either the British or american government.

Fine, but how do they identify these gatherings and know what they are? How do they know that there aren't innocent people there protesting or trying to stop the event?

We had all this with Iraq - there's no way to do it unless they send in ground troops really - a lot of them. Even then, they have to be able to tell the difference between the goodies and the baddies.

nicko wrote:Why are EU countries not doing more to stop isis...

It’s not our fight.  The Bush/Cheney cabal stirred up the pot, and that in turn stirred up the centuries old Shi’ia/Sunni conflict.  That’s a fight between warring factions of Islam.  We have no dog in that fight.

ISIL is Sunni (the former Sunni Baath Party that ran with Saddam) and the present Iraqi government is a weak-to-non-existent Shi'ite force.  The only real entity that can put down ISIL is Iran, which is Shi'ite and Iraq’s present government’s ally.

Iran has already started in to Syria.  You will see this conflict increasingly taken over by Iran, which will eventually defeat ISIL  Iran will occupy all of Syria and perhaps northern Iraq and then the war with Israel will start.

nicko wrote:When they start crossing the Channel the government might get a little worried.

They are not interested in your islands.  They want Israel out of the Middle East.  That is the ultimate goal.

Original Quill wrote:

nicko wrote:Why are EU countries not doing more to stop isis...

It’s not our fight.  The Bush/Cheney cabal stirred up the pot, and that in turn stirred up the centuries old Shi’ia/Sunni conflict.  That’s a fight between warring factions of Islam.  We have no dog in that fight.

ISIL is Sunni (the former Sunni Baath Party that ran with Saddam) and the present Iraqi government is a weak-to-non-existent Shi'ite force.  The only real entity that can put down ISIL is Iran, which is Shi'ite and Iraq’s present government’s ally.

Iran has already started in to Syria.  You will see this conflict increasingly taken over by Iran, which will eventually defeat ISIL  Iran will occupy all of Syria and perhaps northern Iraq and then the war with Israel will start.

nicko wrote:When they start crossing the Channel the government might get a little worried.

They are not interested in your islands.  They want Israel out of the Middle East.  That is the ultimate goal.

You are in an EU country?

Raggamuffin wrote:You are in an EU country?

No.  Neither is Iraq, Syria or Iran.  Their fight is outside the EU, the Americas, Oceania and most of Asia. It is not our business.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:You are in an EU country?

No.  Neither is Iraq, Syria or Iran.  Their fight is outside the EU, the Americas, Oceania and most of Asia.  It is not our business.

It's just that the question was about the involvement of EU countries, and you replied as if you were in one.

Raggamuffin wrote:

Original Quill wrote:

No.  Neither is Iraq, Syria or Iran.  Their fight is outside the EU, the Americas, Oceania and most of Asia.  It is not our business.

It's just that the question was about the involvement of EU countries, and you replied as if you were in one.

I understand that. It's a fair point for you to make.

My response is as to why I responded to a question put to the EU.

Original Quill wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It's just that the question was about the involvement of EU countries, and you replied as if you were in one.

I understand that.  It's a fair point for you to make.  

My response is as to why I responded to a question put to the EU.

Anyway, I actually agree with you for once. It's not our fight - not yet. If there are any terrorist attacks in Europe by ISIS, that will change of course.

I think ISIL's motive is to regain their territory. Then it is Israel. We are only a derivative target, for supporting Israel I believe.

I don't think they would waste time on revenge.

Original Quill wrote:I think ISIL's motive is to regain their territory.  Then it is Israel.  We are only a derivative target, for supporting Israel I believe.

I don't think they would waste time on revenge.

They may well target any country which supports Israel, and that includes the UK, so a terrorist attack is not out of the question.

It does raise the question though - should the rest of the world sit and watch whilst ISIS kill and bully people?

I believe we should be doing more to protect the world heritage sites they cannot be replaced. they are more valuable than oil

To say ISIS will target Israel is laughable, report approx 3 wks ago:

A new report from the UN reveals that the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) maintained regular contact with members of ISIS since May 2013. The UN identified contact with IDF forces and ISIS soldiers.

Addictinginfo.org reports:

In a new report from the UN, it is revealed that the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) were maintaining regular contact with members of the so-called Islamic State since May of 2013. Initial reports from the IDF stated that this was only for medical care for civilians, but that story fell apart when the UN observers identified direct contact between IDF forces and ISIS soldiers, including giving medical care to ISIS fighters. Observations even included the transfer of two crates from the IDF to ISIS forces, the contents of which have not been confirmed at this time. Further the UN report identified what the Syrians label a crossing point of forces between Israel and ISIS, a point of concern brought before the UN Security Council. This report from the UN strengthens the claims by the Syrian regime that Israel is heavily involved in operations within the nation.

This is part of a continuing pattern of Israeli support for the Islamic State. It was only two months ago that Israel attacked Syrian forces in opposition to ISIS forces. Israeli attacks even killed an Iranian military adviser for the Syrian military just two weeks ago. The U.S.’s financing of ISIS, part of the effort against Syrian president Assad, is well documented, as well. That the efforts to undermine the Assad regime were in turn strengthening the same terrorist group which recently set a Jordanian pilot on fire to set an example is conveniently ignored by the higher up military command.

When the United States began operations against ISIS, Israeli high command seemed reluctant to give any support and called the move a mistake. The support of ISIS fits in with Israeli concerns in the region, namely that of Syria and Iran, and U.S. opposition to ISIS has put the United States in the awkward position of once again arming the enemies we will be fighting tomorrow.

Syria and Iran both pose a threat to Israel with their sizable conventional forces and political clout in the region, in much the same way Iraq was before the elimination of Saddam Hussein. With the toppling of Saddam, pieces of concern remain, and Israel appears to still maintain the old axiom that the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Supporting ISIS for Israel enables them to eliminate two issues at once, only once Syria is no longer a concern — a move which would in turn neutralize Iranian influence in the region — Israel then would turn its attention to ISIS, bolstered by other anti-ISIS forces from Saudi Arabia, Turkey and the United States. That would take several more years, however, during which time ISIS would continue to grow in both size and power. By the time they turn their attention to ISIS, it is quite possible that ISIS would have toppled the nations which Israel is counting on for support of such an operation. Too little, too late.

- See more at: http://yournewswire.com/un-proven-ties-between-isis-and-israel/#sthash.Dno9xuqR.dpuf

risingsun wrote:To say ISIS will target Israel is laughable, report approx 3 wks ago

Yes, there are a lot of divisions going on.  I could easily understand how Israel and ex-Baathists/ISIL can merge at least in the short term.  See, The hidden hand behind the Islamic State militants? Saddam Hussein’s, Washington Post (Apr 4, 2015).  The greater threat today to both ISIL and Israel, is Iran.

But a long term alliance between Israel and any Islamic faction is doubtful.