german Tiger1 tank another case of over engineering!!

though a wonderful tank in many ways its over engineering caused it many problems as much in use as in manufacture, do you think the tendency to over engineer added to the the Germans to ultimately lose the war??

It was Hitlers obsession with size.
What is unique here was the other chassis for the other Tiger proposal by Porsche,  one aspect it was very ahead of its time for vehicles

On that I will leave you to look up about what I am on about and check in tomorrow.

Nemesis wrote:It was Hitlers obsession with size.
What is unique here was the other chassis for the other Tiger proposal by Porsche,  one aspect it was very ahead of its time for vehicles

On that I will leave you to look up about what I am on about and check in tomorrow.

yes i agree size became crazy the plans for the Maus were outrageous..

I assume you are talking about the first hybrid engine, hard to imagine it was first attempted in the 1940's..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Nemesis wrote:It was Hitlers obsession with size.
What is unique here was the other chassis for the other Tiger proposal by Porsche,  one aspect it was very ahead of its time for vehicles

On that I will leave you to look up about what I am on about and check in tomorrow.

yes i agree size became crazy the plans for the Maus were outrageous..

I assume you are talking about the first hybrid engine, hard to imagine it was first attempted in the 1940's..

No not that, something else that Porsche attempted.

Will let you know tomorrow

Oh I love tanks. I know they're used to blow people up, but apart from that they're great.

Anyone seen Kelly's Heroes? I love the battle of the tanks in it - Sherman versus Tiger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1eFePf6mWM

Diesel-electric propulsion was tried on some military vehicles, such as tanks. Petrol-electric systems were tested on the British Mark II tank in 1917. Ferdinand Porsche was the main developer of such drive-trains for military vehicles in World War II Nazi Germany, and created the Porsche Tiger of which somewhere around 90 units were produced and later converted into Elefant tank destroyers when Porsche lost the contract for the Tiger I to Henschel. Another noteworthy design was the 188-tonne Porsche type 205 prototypes, commonly known as the Maus super-heavy tank.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel-electric_transmission#Military_vehicles

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh I love tanks. I know they're used to blow people up, but apart from that they're great.

Anyone seen Kelly's Heroes? I love the battle of the tanks in it - Sherman versus Tiger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1eFePf6mWM

i watch kelly's heroes every time the film is on its a great film..

wacth fury its a lot morn modern very good but the tussle the shermans have with the tiger is a bit rubbish...

Nemesis wrote:Diesel-electric propulsion was tried on some military vehicles, such as tanks. Petrol-electric systems were tested on the British Mark II tank in 1917. Ferdinand Porsche was the main developer of such drive-trains for military vehicles in World War II Nazi Germany, and created the Porsche Tiger of which somewhere around 90 units were produced and later converted into Elefant tank destroyers when Porsche lost the contract for the Tiger I to Henschel. Another noteworthy design was the 188-tonne Porsche type 205 prototypes, commonly known as the Maus super-heavy tank.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel-electric_transmission#Military_vehicles

the Maus was ridiculous...

the jagd tiger or hunting tiger was huge and well armoured, equipped with 128 it must have been devastating.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:Oh I love tanks. I know they're used to blow people up, but apart from that they're great.

Anyone seen Kelly's Heroes? I love the battle of the tanks in it - Sherman versus Tiger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1eFePf6mWM

i watch kelly's heroes every time the film is on its a great film..

wacth fury its a lot morn modern very good but the tussle the shermans have with the tiger is a bit rubbish...

Me too! Some people say it's all a bit of a cliche, but I don't care - I love the characters in it and the tanks.

I'll have a look for Fury.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Nemesis wrote:Diesel-electric propulsion was tried on some military vehicles, such as tanks. Petrol-electric systems were tested on the British Mark II tank in 1917. Ferdinand Porsche was the main developer of such drive-trains for military vehicles in World War II Nazi Germany, and created the Porsche Tiger of which somewhere around 90 units were produced and later converted into Elefant tank destroyers when Porsche lost the contract for the Tiger I to Henschel. Another noteworthy design was the 188-tonne Porsche type 205 prototypes, commonly known as the Maus super-heavy tank.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel-electric_transmission#Military_vehicles

the Maus was ridiculous...

the jagd tiger or hunting tiger was huge and well armoured, equipped with 128 it must have been devastating.

No I am showing what was innovative by Porsche.

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

i watch kelly's heroes every time the film is on its a great film..

wacth fury its a lot morn modern very good but the tussle the shermans have with the tiger is a bit rubbish...

Me too! Some people say it's all a bit of a cliche, but I don't care - I love the characters in it and the tanks.

I'll have a look for Fury.

it stars Brad pit, the equipment is pretty authentic loads of free streams to watch it on..

Panther II

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panzerkampfwagen-v-panther-ii.htm

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Me too! Some people say it's all a bit of a cliche, but I don't care - I love the characters in it and the tanks.

I'll have a look for Fury.

it stars Brad pit, the equipment is pretty authentic loads of free streams to watch it on..

Oooh, found it - I'll be watching that later!

Now this is the mother of all crazy ideas the Germans had:


Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte – Hitlers Idiotic Heavy Tank Design


An artist impression of the Landkreuzer – [Via]



The Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte (Rat) was a design for a super-heavy tank for use by Nazi Germany during World War II. Originally proposed by the Krupp director Eduard Grote in June 1942 he named it the “Landkreuzer” (land cruiser).
The tank was planned to be 1000 metric tonnes, being far heavier than the Panzer VIII Maus, the heaviest tank ever built (weighing 188 tonnes). The turret and gun alone would weigh 200 tons!
The project gained the approval of Adolf Hitler, who had expressed interest in the development of the tank.

Artist impression [via]



It would have dwarved normal tanks [via]
If it were ever built it would have been 115 feet in length, 45 feet wide and a massive 36 feet – almost four stories – into the sky. It would have a crew of at least 20 men and because of it size could even accommodate crew quarters and lavatories.





Artist impression [via]

The behemoth would be armed to the teeth. The turret would be of naval design like the guns on the heavy cruiser Gneisenau. There would be 2 guns in the turret, both a bore of 280mm and could fire a shells as heavy as 700 pounds at target as far as 25 miles away! At least one 128mm Anti Tank gun was to be added. For anti aircraft defense they planned to add 8 22mm FLAK-38 cannons.
Its huge size would and massive weight would have destroyed any road it would drive on and there were no bridges big or strong enough for it to drive over. Given the fact that the heavy German tanks like the Tiger and King Tiger were under powered the Germans faced a massive challenge to get this thing moving.
The plans called for 8 Daimler Benz MB501 20 cylinder marine engines which were to produce 17.000 horsepower. These engines were used in E-Boats and later in U-Boats too. They were to power 6 tracks, 3 on each side being a massive 1.2 meters wide.
The tank would be very easy to spot from the air and would be the prime target of all aircraft and artillery if it ever made it to the front. As stated earlier, no bridge could support it and fording every river would be a gamble every time. It could not drive through villages as it was too wide and any road it drove on would have been instantly wrecked. The project was canceled by Albert Speer in early 1943 and no prototype tank was ever completed. It remained a dream that has only come into “reality” in dozens of computer games and graphic artists.


http://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/landkreuzer-p-1000-ratte-hitlers-idiotic-heavy-tank-design.html/2

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

it stars Brad pit, the equipment is pretty authentic loads of free streams to watch it on..

Oooh, found it - I'll be watching that later!

the tiger use was from bovington tank museum, my dad took me there when i was a child..

Nemesis wrote:Now this is the mother of all crazy ideas the Germans had:


Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte – Hitlers Idiotic Heavy Tank Design


An artist impression of the Landkreuzer – [Via]



The Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte (Rat) was a design for a super-heavy tank for use by Nazi Germany during World War II. Originally proposed by the Krupp director Eduard Grote in June 1942 he named it the “Landkreuzer” (land cruiser).
The tank was planned to be 1000 metric tonnes, being far heavier than the Panzer VIII Maus, the heaviest tank ever built (weighing 188 tonnes). The turret and gun alone would weigh 200 tons!
The project gained the approval of Adolf Hitler, who had expressed interest in the development of the tank.

Artist impression [via]



It would have dwarved normal tanks [via]
If it were ever built it would have been 115 feet in length, 45 feet wide and a massive 36 feet – almost four stories – into the sky. It would have a crew of at least 20 men and because of it size could even accommodate crew quarters and lavatories.





Artist impression [via]

The behemoth would be armed to the teeth. The turret would be of naval design like the guns on the heavy cruiser Gneisenau. There would be 2 guns in the turret, both a bore of 280mm and could fire a shells as heavy as 700 pounds at target as far as 25 miles away! At least one 128mm Anti Tank gun was to be added. For anti aircraft defense they planned to add 8 22mm FLAK-38 cannons.
Its huge size would and massive weight would have destroyed any road it would drive on and there were no bridges big or strong enough for it to drive over. Given the fact that the heavy German tanks like the Tiger and King Tiger were under powered the Germans faced a massive challenge to get this thing moving.
The plans called for 8 Daimler Benz MB501 20 cylinder marine engines which were to produce 17.000 horsepower. These engines were used in E-Boats and later in U-Boats too. They were to power 6 tracks, 3 on each side being a massive 1.2 meters wide.
The tank would be very easy to spot from the air and would be the prime target of all aircraft and artillery if it ever made it to the front. As stated earlier, no bridge could support it and fording every river would be a gamble every time. It could not drive through villages as it was too wide and any road it drove on would have been instantly wrecked. The project was canceled by Albert Speer in early 1943 and no prototype tank was ever completed. It remained a dream that has only come into “reality” in dozens of computer games and graphic artists.


http://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/landkreuzer-p-1000-ratte-hitlers-idiotic-heavy-tank-design.html/2

could you imagine the effect one of those could have on a battlefield, though it does seem an odd step backwards to as strong fixed positions were easy pickings for air, naval artillery bombardment, yes it could move but it would be very slow and very easy to spot.

a million miles from the blitzkrieg that brought them their success..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

Oooh, found it - I'll be watching that later!

the tiger use was from bovington tank museum, my dad took me there when i was a child..

It sounds fab!

One of the problems with the Tiger is that mud and snow would get packed into the tracks. Apparently, the Russians took advantage of that and attacked in the early morning before snow could thaw.

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

the tiger use was from bovington tank museum, my dad took me there when i was a child..

It sounds fab!

One of the problems with the Tiger is that mud and snow would get packed into the tracks. Apparently, the Russians took advantage of that and attacked in the early morning before snow could thaw.

the sheer weight of the Tiger made it a poor tank for muddy or very wet land.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Raggamuffin wrote:

It sounds fab!

One of the problems with the Tiger is that mud and snow would get packed into the tracks. Apparently, the Russians took advantage of that and attacked in the early morning before snow could thaw.

the sheer weight of the Tiger made it a poor tank for muddy or very wet land.

According to Oddball, it's weak point is its ass.

Raggamuffin wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

the sheer weight of the Tiger made it a poor tank for muddy or very wet land.

According to Oddball, it's weak point is its ass.

lol..yes it was the thinnist armour and where the engines would be