Christianity is False and Immoral.

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
it appears that throughout the human and animal kingdom there are set parameters that allow change within a species, that is adaption... we do not see pigs with wings, your bacteria was bacteria, it is now antibiotic resistant Bacteria, it is the same thing bacteria, the fact it changed through the intervention of man proves nothing except perhaps intelligent design...
do we have the list of positive mutations that have brought us this far, how far have we come, how much has changed from early humans to what we see now...

do the native indians now walking around represent evolution...?
Is dog breeding an example of evolution.

You just proved you know next to nothing about biology.

Thank you

So you have no understanding about Bacterial resistance to antibiotics?

One simple test and you could not even get that right

Hilarious and proof you must have gotten an F in biology.

Never mind you poor uneducated child

Thanks for the entertainment though

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


You just proved you know next to nothing about biology.

Thank you

So you have no understanding about Bacterial resistance to antibiotics?

One simple test and you could not even get that right

Hilarious and proof you must have gotten an F in biology.

Never mind you poor uneducated child

Thanks for the entertainment though

lol you are such a scream....

so is macro evolution observable or are we still sticking with adaption..   first define what YOU mean by macro evolution

do we animals that stick within parameters?  I assume this is a typo, please rephrase

are you saying poeple with big noses evolved from people with small noses... dont be daft

do yu have a list of positive mutations that have changed any species let alone humans.?    giraffe's necks for one...

peppered moths for another....

darknessss wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
lol you are such a scream....

so is macro evolution observable or are we still sticking with adaption..   first define what YOU mean by macro evolution

do we animals that stick within parameters?  I assume this is a typo, please rephrase

are you saying poeple with big noses evolved from people with small noses... dont be daft

do yu have a list of positive mutations that have changed any species let alone humans.?    giraffe's necks for one...

peppered moths for another....

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

don't see catdogs, we dont see lion pigs..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

darknessss wrote:

you don't know what macro evolution is?? I didnt say I didnt...i want to be sure YOU do, your scientific knowlege appears to be less than satisfactory
why do animals and humans for that matter stay within what appear to be set parameters for their species, wwe don't see catdogs, we dont see lion pigs.. I will define species for you
evplain the mutation of a giraffes neck and the peeper moth did either become a new species...??

darknessss wrote:Didge I have come to the conclusion that you may be able to educate an idiot.
you cannot however educate the wilfully ignorant......

in fact i recon HF is a "different species"

WE are Homo sapiens sapiens

HE is Homo ignoramus

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Why don't we rename this thread "Let's bitch about HF"?

More apt.

Ben_Reilly wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

God created him yes but as with all his creations he gave free will, to be what they want to be, he never built robots.

by your reasoning do guns kill people or do people kill people?

If you create something and you know every action it will ever take and thought it will ever think, there's no way you can give it free will. To do that would mean giving it the capacity to surprise you, and nothing can surprise God.

Belatucadros wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:Why don't we rename this thread "Let's bitch about HF"?

More apt.

If you think its appropriate to defend ignorance, then sure, change it.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

If you create something and you know every action it will ever take and thought it will ever think, there's no way you can give it free will. To do that would mean giving it the capacity to surprise you, and nothing can surprise God.

Knowing are influencing are 2 different things.

If I had the technology to know your future actions and thoughts, that does not make me responsible for your actions and thoughts.

I can't make it any simpler or logical than that.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Ben_Reilly wrote:

If you create something and you know every action it will ever take and thought it will ever think, there's no way you can give it free will. To do that would mean giving it the capacity to surprise you, and nothing can surprise God.

Knowing are influencing are 2 different things.

If I had the technology to know your future actions and thoughts, that does not make me responsible for your actions and thoughts.

I can't make it any simpler or logical than that.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


If you think its appropriate to defend ignorance, then sure, change it.

Appropriate to defend ignorance? lol!

Youre so high and mighty, I assume you're Didge. Welcome back.

Belatucadros wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Knowing are influencing are 2 different things.

If I had the technology to know your future actions and thoughts, that does not make me responsible for your actions and thoughts.

I can't make it any simpler or logical than that.

Of course it can if it is predetermined, other wise you thus do not care to want to help.
It is like I said, if God exists, it is either not powerful enough to do anything. Is powerful enough and just does not care or does not exist at all.

darknessss wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Knowing are influencing are 2 different things.

If I had the technology to know your future actions and thoughts, that does not make me responsible for your actions and thoughts.

I can't make it any simpler or logical than that.

no but it makes it the ultimate in immorality to then judge (with the penalty of eternal torture)
after all  If god knows the sould he is about to "make" is going to be a serial killer why make it only to then subject it to torture....kinda cruel that.....

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:



Of course it can if it is predetermined, other wise you thus do not care to want to help.
It is like I said, if God exists, it is either not powerful enough to do anything. Is powerful enough and just does not care or does not exist at all.

Becuase that's a cop out and you don't want to take any responsibility for your actions. Youre not a child.

I may care about how you act but I'm not responsible for it.

Belatucadros wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:


Becuase that's a cop out and you don't want to take any responsibility for your actions. Youre not a child.

I may care about how you act but I'm not responsible for it.

But that is wrong again, as are we not children in mentality compared to such an intelligent being?
So you are saying something of lesser mentality should not be helped if they make errors or have no ability to change their actions through predetermination?
So not copout, you are thinking two dimentionally again.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

But that is wrong again, as are we not children in mentality compared to such an intelligent being?
So you are saying something of lesser mentality should not be helped if they make errors or have no ability to change their actions through predetermination?
So not copout, you are thinking two dimentionally again.

no one controls your actions... how do people learn??

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
no one controls your actions... how do people learn??

What is predeterminism?

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:
What is predeterminism?

not what God does, we have freedom of choice...

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
not what God does, we have freedom of choice...

No surprise there, yet again you fail to answer the question.

Never mind, shall wait for Zack who will debates the points, as all you do is waste time.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

darknessss wrote:

no but it makes it the ultimate in immorality to then judge (with the penalty of eternal torture)
after all  If god knows the sould he is about to "make" is going to be a serial killer why make it only to then subject it to torture....kinda cruel that.....

Why can't you be judged? Only you are responsible for your actions.

darknessss wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

darknessss wrote:

no but it makes it the ultimate in immorality to then judge (with the penalty of eternal torture)
after all  If god knows the sould he is about to "make" is going to be a serial killer why make it only to then subject it to torture....kinda cruel that.....

Why can't you be judged? Only you are responsible for your actions.

circular argument alert

veya_victaous wrote:

darknessss wrote:

circular argument alert

yep

if I make a program and I judge it faulty, it is not the program that was insufficient it was myself from failing to make a superior program

Thus it is gods fault because he should have made us better

Or 'this' is just quality control  

Belatucadros wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:


Becuase that's a cop out and you don't want to take any responsibility for your actions. Youre not a child.

I may care about how you act but I'm not responsible for it.

But that is wrong again, as are we not children in mentality compared to such an intelligent being?
So you are saying something of lesser mentality should not be helped if they make errors or have no ability to change their actions through predetermination?
So not copout, you are thinking two dimentionally again.

veya_victaous wrote:

darknessss wrote:

circular argument alert

yep

if I make a program and I judge it faulty, it is not the program that was insufficient it was myself from failing to make a superior program

Thus it is gods fault because he should have made us better

Or 'this' is just quality control  

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:

But that is wrong again, as are we not children in mentality compared to such an intelligent being?
So you are saying something of lesser mentality should not be helped if they make errors or have no ability to change their actions through predetermination?
So not copout, you are thinking two dimentionally again.

No, you're not a child.

Free will or free choice is a power that comes with responsibility. Therefore you're judged on how you exercise that power. For good or bad.

Belatucadros wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

No, you're not a child.

Free will or free choice is a power that comes with responsibility. Therefore you're judged on how you exercise that power. For good or bad.

You are missing the point. A child to us has far less intellect and understanding,. It stands to reason we would be very child like in intellect and intelligence to a deities supreme understanding would we not? The thing is it is humans that actually judge on this earth and we judge through a better and more humane method in many cases, than would be found in certain religions commanded by the deity.
You then have a major problem, how can we as far less intelligence beings to a claim to an all powerful God, show far greater compassion? We imprison many people for crimes, to take them out of society from harming others. Where they have some of the rights taken away for set periods. Which is far removed from an eternal punishment spent in agony. I mean imagine killing your own child because they turned around and did not love you anymore and believe in you anymore. Would anyone back the right of a parent to do this?
I certainly would not advocate such a thing yet some of these deities again based off emotions will punish people for not loving them and believing in them as their creator. Well parents are creators too of children and if they fall out there are those who will attempt to reconcile. You do not have this option with the Abrahamic beliefs.


If revenge of which eternal punishment is for acts committed here and deemed as such by something so supremely intelligent. It would never allow emotions to cloud any reasoning on a matter. It shows to me this belief of such a deity lacks intellect when making judgements. Now of course people will argue off as God, he would be supremely right, but would he/she? If negative emotions are bad, then why do the Abrahamic deities based on what is written have and allow negative emotions to rule their reasoning?
This to me more than anything proves to me these works are man made. Nothing of supreme intelligence would be ruled by emotions or even go off negative ones on passing judgement but would rationalize and reason over them. That to me shows that these Deities from in the Abrahamic faiths either are of a lesser intellect or nothing short of evil.

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


You are missing the point. A child to us has far less intellect and understanding,. It stands to reason we would be very child like in intellect and intelligence to a deities supreme understanding would we not? The thing is it is humans that actually judge on this earth and we judge through a better and more humane method in many cases, than would be found in certain religions commanded by the deity.
You then have a major problem, how can we as far less intelligence beings to a claim to an all powerful God, show far greater compassion? We imprison many people for crimes, to take them out of society from harming others. Where they have some of the rights taken away for set periods. Which is far removed from an eternal punishment spent in agony. I mean imagine killing your own child because they turned around and did not love you anymore and believe in you anymore. Would anyone back the right of a parent to do this?
I certainly would not advocate such a thing yet some of these deities again based off emotions will punish people for not loving them and believing in them as their creator. Well parents are creators too of children and if they fall out there are those who will attempt to reconcile. You do not have this option with the Abrahamic beliefs.


If revenge of which eternal punishment is for acts committed here and deemed as such by something so supremely intelligent. It would never allow emotions to cloud any reasoning on a matter. It shows to me this belief of such a deity lacks intellect when making judgements. Now of course people will argue off as God, he would be supremely right, but would he/she? If negative emotions are bad, then why do the Abrahamic deities based on what is written have and allow negative emotions to rule their reasoning?
This to me more than anything proves to me these works are man made. Nothing of supreme intelligence would be ruled by emotions or even go off negative ones on passing judgement but would rationalize and reason over them. That to me shows that these Deities from in the Abrahamic faiths either are of a lesser intellect or nothing short of evil.

at the age of 16 the law classes you as an adult and responsible for your actions, some would say it should be before then.
Intelligence is relative, compared to einstein I guess most could claim deminished reasoning but unless you are clearly som how mentaly immpaired you know what yu are doing and you know it has consequences..

if you wanted God to create robots he could have done that but as ever he created living things with, thought and reason, we are all capable of murder and worse but what keeps the majority in check??

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
at the age of 16 the law classes you as an adult and responsible for your actions, some would say it should be before then.
Intelligence is relative, compared to einstein I guess most could claim deminished reasoning but unless you are clearly som how mentaly immpaired you know what yu are doing and you know it has consequences..

if you wanted God to create robots he could have done that but as ever he created living things with, thought and reason, we are all capable of murder and worse but what keeps the majority in check??

That reply just about missed every point I was making.
Well the law may well class a child as an adult at 16, but their minds do not full develop until 25. quite a gap in years. As to intelligence and emotions here they are very important to how people view and judge criminal acts. Though again as seen the judgements in the religious works are clearly led off emotions where the punishment for people of non-belief is eternal suffering in the most horrific ways possible. Again apply this to reality here in the now. What if a child stopped believing in their own father knowing they had committed some wrong or countless other reasons? Would the Father be justified to punish that child then for the rest of their lives or continually attempt to reconcile?

You see one is a negative emotional reaction the other a positive one in trying to reconcile.
Hence the deities found within the Abrahamic stories as seen allow negative emotions far more than humans do, to rule their judgements. Even worse off no criminal act we have enacted into power today in regards to not believing in your creators your parents for example in the west. In fact we abolished such laws on belief being mandatory for religion and rightly so. As such a method of fear is enforcing people to believe through fear of consequences.

If something is easily ruled by negative emotions, it is not something I would class in anyway as Good or right. It would be illogical the very thought of emotions ruling an all supremely intelligent being, because we all know that emotions can cloud very easily making the right decisions. Intelligent decisions do not require or need to act off negative emotions. Hence why the notion of an emotional supreme intelligence really make very little sense.

Right, have work to get on with.

Laters

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


That reply just about missed every point I was making.
Well the law may well class a child as an adult at 16, but their minds do not full develop until 25. quite a gap in years. As to intelligence and emotions here they are very important to how people view and judge criminal acts. Though again as seen the judgements in the religious works are clearly led off emotions where the punishment for people of non-belief is eternal suffering in the most horrific ways possible. Again apply this to reality here in the now. What if a child stopped believing in their own father knowing they had committed some wrong or countless other reasons? Would the Father be justified to punish that child then for the rest of their lives or continually attempt to reconcile?

You see one is a negative emotional reaction the other a positive one in trying to reconcile.
Hence the deities found within the Abrahamic stories as seen allow negative emotions far more than humans do, to rule their judgements. Even worse off no criminal act we have enacted into power today in regards to not believing in your creators your parents for example in the west. In fact we abolished such laws on belief being mandatory for religion and rightly so. As such a method of fear is enforcing people to believe through fear of consequences.

If something is easily ruled by negative emotions, it is not something I would class in anyway as Good or right. It would be illogical the very thought of emotions ruling an all supremely intelligent being, because we all know that emotions can cloud very easily making the right decisions. Intelligent decisions do not require or need to act off negative emotions. Hence why the notion of an emotional supreme intelligence really make very little sense.

Right, have work to get on with.

Laters

sounds completely like your opinion and no fact..

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:hmmm more opinion and heresay...

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:hmmm more opinion and heresay...

Thanks for yours and thus I shall await for Zack instead who will actually engage the debate.

Cheers

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:

Belatucadros wrote:


Thanks for yours and thus I shall await for Zack instead who will actually engage the debate.

Cheers

is debate on information or heresay and opinion..

Belatucadros wrote:

heavenlyfatheragain wrote:
is debate on information or heresay and opinion..

It can be many things, including methodology, applied concepts, comparisons etc.
As I say, you are just now detracting from the many points I gave and comparisons to apply to human creators as parents. So again thanks for your views, but I would rather entertain someone who wants to have a reasonable discussion on the points raised. Which clearly from your answers, or lack of them should I say, you are not interested in discussing them and just wasting my time, yet again.

Anyway maybe back later or tomorrow so have a good evening