Obama's Dangerous Legacy Could Include a War in Russia's Backyard

When all the biographies, memoirs and histories are written about Barack Obama’s foreign policy legacy it will be a mixed one, ranging from the indulgent because of complex and unsolvable challenges to disappointed assessments from the idealistic left and also from the confrontational right. Personally, I liked how David Bromwich once portrayed him after five years of his presidency: “The world’s most important spectator.”
“Obama has a larger-spirited wish to help people than any of his predecessors since Jimmy Carter,” Bromwich began, “though caution bordering on timidity has kept him from speaking.”


- See more at: http://historynewsnetwork.org/blog/153613#sthash.GAvvFN6c.dpuf

Nemesis wrote:...the indulgent because of complex and unsolvable challenges to disappointed assessments from the idealistic left and also from the confrontational right

WTF???  That is the longest opening sentence in Internet history.  I fall asleep reading it.

But I know what you mean.  Dr. Obama differs from Jimmy Carter--in fact, all of the others--in that he is perhaps one of the most intelligent presidents we have had, he is highly organized, a magnificent communicator and he just has an overpowering energy and will by which to get things done.

I totally understand Bromwich's characterization about Dr. Obama as a spectator.  The point begins by realizing that this is the US government, not one individual.  Because of fundamental racism in the US, we have a president who has experienced unprecedented ostracism and contempt from the more base among us--by that, I mean Republicans--and he has been essentially marginalized and excluded to the extent possible.

BUT...he is the president and he has powers.  The more sophisticated game to watch is how Dr. Obama negotiates the barriers put up by Republicans.  Dr. Obama adroitly lunges and parrys in a game of three-dimensional chess, where his opponents only understand the two-dimensional game.

In the final analysis, it is a two-way street and Republicans are ultimately hurting only themselves.  To admire Dr. Obama is only icing on the cake.  The fuller stuff is watching a political party devoted to bigotry and deceit go down in inglorious disintegration and exile.

Like I say until you apologise to the Brits on here, there will be no debate between us.

Nemesis wrote:Like I say until you apologise to the Brits on here, there will be no debate between us.

Awwwww...I missed that.

Is this better for you than leaving. I know your post count is lost when you quit. Well, you'll get over it.

In the meantime, you won't mind if I keep on truckin'?

As I say, your post was racist to the Brits, very much so and why you fail to even understand racism.

Until you apologise, there is no point conversing with someone as bad as white supremacists.

HE's pissed off because he's not British. he comes from a country that's never won a real war and has no history to speak of, it's just jealousy.

nicko wrote:HE's  pissed off because he's not British. he comes from a country that's never won a real war and has no history to speak of,  it's just jealousy.

He basically demeaned every single British poster on here and because they were British, that is as racist as it gets. Like I said some of the left happened to be the worst kinds of racists.
He will now lose out on interesting debates, because he acted like a child and he knows he did.

His loss, lets see if  he has some humility.

nicko wrote:HE's  pissed off because he's not British. he comes from a country that's never won a real war and has no history to speak of,  it's just jealousy.

He now seems proud of his racism.

Oh well, seems the British posters have learnt a valuable lesson indeed about racism with their own eyes Nicko.

Nemesis wrote:As I say, your post was racist to the Brits, very much so and why you fail to even understand racism.

Until you apologise, there is no point conversing with someone as bad as white supremacists.

Errrr.....how so ? ...on this thread ? where ?

korban dallas wrote:

Nemesis wrote:As I say, your post was racist to the Brits, very much so and why you fail to even understand racism.

Until you apologise, there is no point conversing with someone as bad as white supremacists.

Errrr.....how so ? ...on this thread ?  where ?

http://www.newsfixboard.com/t9144-yep-that-s-racism#176270

Was this thread supposed to be about Russia's backyard? I've tried to read the article but it's a bit heavy going.

Nemesis wrote:
As I say, your post was racist to the Brits, very much so and why you fail to even understand racism.

Until you apologise, there is no point conversing with someone as bad as white supremacists.

YOU'RE the last person on this site who should be attacking others, you ignorant racist and bigoted , Nemesis !!!!

AS YOU clods really don't even understand the very concept of "racism", clueless fuckwits such as you and your idiotic supporters on here (including a couple of the worst racists and intolerant bastards that this site has ever encountered, to date, I notice !) are the last commentators that I consider should even be bleating with your fallacious and trite drivel...

EMPTY headed morons like you mob are far from being in the least qualified to criticise the likes of Quill or KD in these threads..
MAYBE some of you intolerant racist and fascist fools should go and try living in Iceland or Switzerland or Sweden for a while.
P.S.   British isn't even a "race", you braindead cretin !    
I DON'T see how you can try and describe Britain as a "race" in it's own right, considering it's existing 'racial' and religious mixes..

Lone Wolf wrote:

Nemesis wrote:
As I say, your post was racist to the Brits, very much so and why you fail to even understand racism.

Until you apologise, there is no point conversing with someone as bad as white supremacists.

YOU'RE the last person on this site who should be attacking others, you ignorant racist and bigoted , Nemesis !!!!

AS YOU clods really don't even understand the very concept of "racism", clueless fuckwits such as you and your idiotic supporters on here (including a couple of the worst racists and intolerant bastards that this site has ever encountered, to date, I notice !) are the last commentators that I consider should even be bleating with your fallacious and trite drivel...

EMPTY headed morons like you mob are far from being in the least qualified to criticise the likes of Quill or KD in these threads..
MAYBE some of you intolerant racist and fascist fools should go and try living in Iceland or Switzerland or Sweden for a while.
P.S.   British isn't even a "race", you braindead cretin !    
I DON'T see how you can try and describe Britain as a "race" in it's own right, considering it's existing 'racial' and religious mixes..

So I see the forum little boy has pipped up to provide everyone with verbal diarrhea and to claim I am racist shows you lack any intelligence

So basically you think I do not understand racism but not able to even counter a single point about racism.

Please do not waste my time you immature child, your insults are quite sad clearly showing you are a sad individual:

The fact you fail to condemn Quill for being racist shows you have not the first clue what you are talking about little boy, I suggest you go and play with your lego.


Here you can try and counter this if you dare little boy.

I never described Britain as a race, that was Quill by defning them as a people.

Once you define people as he did to then claim they are inferior then he made himself racist.

I do not expect you to understand racism judging by your immature reply


Now please take on my points, if you have a brain, which I doubt you have:

Okay here is why the views by Veya and Quill are simplistic in their understanding around racism based on a black and white biological concept, when it is far more reaching than this, going back very much so to the beginnings of civilizations itself.

So lets see how racism is defined by the United nations:

According to the United Nations convention, there is no distinction between the terms racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination, and superiority based on racial differentiation is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust and dangerous, and that there is no justification for racial discrimination, in theory or in practice, anywhere

Now we have to go back to the beginnings of civilization to see how and where racism was formed. From its beginnings we have seen slaves as spoils of wars with rival city states in the time of ancient Sumer. The City States of Sumerian society we actually see many of the systems we have today, with schools, laws, criminal systems, medicine etc. As time progressed and other societies rose, groups of people were started to be seen as different. Many wars and conflicts arose where defeated nations had males butchered, except those with skills, women and children enslaved or displaced. We do not see the first real concept of racism until the Israelites taking the form of a chosen people. You only have to read the old Testament to see this racism in abundance, where we now have a group of people claiming they have been chosen by their deity over all over groups of people. This is where we see the concept of “Herem” arise which is the systematic genocide of groups of people. We read that they have been promised a land and it does not say to live in harmony with the groups and societies already there, but to wipe them out. Even animals are not even spared and also commanded to be destroyed. Even where for example there is inter marriage with other non-Israelite groups Moses is ordered to kill them and we actually read this deity praise them.  Whether they actually happened is difficult to say, but there is evidence in the what we call the Holy lands of cities being raised to the ground. This is where racism really starts to form in a society, where they whether ethically, religious or as a culture as seen superior and chosen above all others. This is justified by its religious works and also with the most dangerous concept of all a belief this is justified by their deity. We also see slavery endorsed and even worse human sacrifice, to sanctified endorsement of rape to the women of defeated nations Anyway I shall return to this later, but it is the real first racism of viewing of groups seen as clearly inferior and not even worthy of life.

The first leader we see  who takes a different view with defeated enemies is Cyrus the Great. When he defeated the Medes, he did not subjugate them but made them as one with his nation making the Medes part of his army and treating them with levels of equality. Though we still see slavery within this Empire, which is based much around elitism and where people are still viewed with discrimination. Though this is a far reaching King who is able to unite many people and why the Persian Empire flourished on and off for centuries. Of course those who rebelled were crushed and you see the same retribution that normally happens to defeated nations.

We then come to the Greeks where we now start to see a form of racism, which is along the lines of Quill’s views towards the British. One of where groups of people and societies are seen as uncivilized, lacking education, wisdom, philosophy etc. We see within City states where again Slavery is rife, to the extreme point of Spartan society itself. It is one of the most elitist societies you will find, where it was formed from its citizens being trained on a complete war footing. They had second class citizens that lived with some rights called the  Perioikoi, they did not have full citizen rights, they were free, but were not restricted like the slaves of Sparta the helots. Here you really have a view of an inferior group of people. Every year the Spartans went to war against this group to keep them in line. As Spartan loses and wars required more troops, they did grant those who had fought well in battle.  

What we really see with the greeks is how they view the Persians, Celts etc  as barbarians and uncivilized. Again this is a view of not seeing them as biologically different but inferior based off their cultures and how or more to the point how lacking in advancement their societies were. They basically viewed anyone who did not speak Greek as barbarian.  The Greeks saw themselves as rational and used reason, where they viewed barbarians as emotionally in lacked reason. Similarities to Quill? You see racism comes in many forms in how people are demeaned or discriminated against and here we see the Greeks view anyone else as basically again inferior in their technology, understanding etc.
We do see though again rise from this a great leader who was very visionary for his time.
Alexander the Great. When he conquered the Persians he took the line to merge and integrate the cultures of both East and West. Of course he was a tyrant and butchered people, but his love and firth for knowledge and wisdom brought about the first attempt to unite societies with their cultures. Of course it had little time to blossom, because his own Commanders and Macedonians were aghast at this believing of course these people were barbarians. It is a shame that he did not live longer and given time with a strong heir whether this could have formed a cohesive society that lasted centuries. Of course we next come to the Romans, again with a similar attitude to the Greeks viewing even the Greeks as barbarians. The cycle continues, it is a different form of racism, but racism none the less. Of course as the Empire went along though anyone could become a Roman Citizen making this a unique society again, based around a society of a pantheon of deities, where defeated societies had Gods amalgamate making cohesion in defeated societies easier.

We then see the rise of Christianity and to me the real root cause and problems that still exist with racism today. To me it was also a factor in the fall of the Roman Empire, which is for another discussion. Again we see and have religious group that can be made up of many ethnic groups but seen again as special and chosen by their deity.  We also see the rise of Islam, where again a group of people the Arabs are seeing themselves as superior to others, which is found with already seen the evidence in their works. They certainly held poor views of blacks and enslaved many of them as well as converting many to Islam. This is of course well document and as we see it is the position of viewing a group of people as special above other groups and superior where the real problem of racism comes to the fore. You may ask why Christianity? The fact is it is fundamental, because Europeans viewed Jesus not as a Jews, even though Jews are a Semitic Caucasian people, Jesus was clearly see as white European. This can easily be seen by the countless paintings and sculptures found throughout Europe that depicts Jesus as very much European looking. You then have a dangerous stance here where European people are placing their God as White European and not Jewish and why the Jews have very much been wrongly blamed for his death and persecuted. This to me is instrumental and how racism formed and why we see how later the slavery of the Africans was justified by the Bible itself taking the view they are now the chosen people and believing the Jews have lost this stance.

Of course in the 19th century we see the start of scientific racism, where people begin to argue pseudo nonsense around biological concepts which just have no bases, but have helped created the Black and white racist concept we see today. This though fails to look at one of the biggest problems in America. The plight of the indigenous American Indians. When it comes to racism, the view and talking point is always in regards to African and European Americans. If anything the indigenous suffered the greatest mistreatments of which they still do to this day but they are not spoken of in any of this talk around racism. It shows the view and rhetoric around racism is more a political and religious concept in the US. You find many of those in the US that hold racist views are on the Christian right, again all roads lead to racism, We see in the Middle east Arab views of claiming to own and control lands based on their beliefs of this again through a view of being chosen. Where ever you turn, it falls back to religion in many aspects, whether it be Islam or Christianity and even to some aspect Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism etc all based around a Nationalist view. If people want to talk about the problems of racism, then lets talk about them with honesty. Yes there is a great problem with white privilege with a huge disparity in wealth, but lets not leave out of the equation the most persecuted people in the US, the indigenous American Indians themselves. They suffer some of the worst welath disparity and have the least self determination.

This is just  as basic view I can go into more detail but to me, here are elements that have led to the problems we face today and actually need to recognise.

Lone Wolf wrote:

Nemesis wrote:
As I say, your post was racist to the Brits, very much so and why you fail to even understand racism.

Until you apologise, there is no point conversing with someone as bad as white supremacists.

YOU'RE the last person on this site who should be attacking others, you ignorant racist and bigoted , Nemesis !!!!

AS YOU clods really don't even understand the very concept of "racism", clueless fuckwits such as you and your idiotic supporters on here (including a couple of the worst racists and intolerant bastards that this site has ever encountered, to date, I notice !) are the last commentators that I consider should even be bleating with your fallacious and trite drivel...

EMPTY headed morons like you mob are far from being in the least qualified to criticise the likes of Quill or KD in these threads..
MAYBE some of you intolerant racist and fascist fools should go and try living in Iceland or Switzerland or Sweden for a while.
P.S.   British isn't even a "race", you braindead cretin !    
I DON'T see how you can try and describe Britain as a "race" in it's own right, considering it's existing 'racial' and religious mixes..

You were the one who called someone a "white honky".