Seige in Sydney

ARMED men are holding 40 to 50 people hostage at a cafe in Martin Place in Sydney.

There are reports that two gunman have taken hostages, some of which are standing with their hands up at the windows in the popular Lindt chocolate shop, which has two or three entrances. There is also a black and white flag being held up in a window. It is believed to be the Black Standard, a jihadist flag.

Lindt Australia CEO Steve Loane told news.com.au he believes there are 40 to 50 people inside the cafe, including customers and staff.

The government’s National Security Committee of Cabinet has met for briefings on the situation this morning.

In a statement, Tony Abbott said he had also spoken with NSW Premier Mike Baird and “offered him all possible Commonwealth support and assistance”.

“This is obviously a deeply concerning incident but all Australians should be reassured that our law enforcement and security agencies are well trained and equipped and are responding in a thorough and professional manner,” he said.

Yahoo wrote:SYDNEY (AP) — A gunman took an unknown number of people hostage inside a downtown Sydney chocolate shop and cafe at the height of Monday morning rush hour, with two people inside the cafe seen holding up a flag believed to contain an Islamic declaration of faith.

Four hours after the incident first erupted inside the Lindt Chocolat Cafe, New South Wales state Police Commissioner Andrew Scipione said police had not made direct contact with the gunman, did not know his motivation and were not sure how many people were being held inside.

"We have not yet confirmed it is a terrorism-related event," Scipione said. "We're dealing with a hostage situation with an armed offender and we are dealing with it accordingly."

The cafe is located in Martin Place, a plaza in the heart of the city's financial and shopping district that is packed with holiday shoppers this time of year. Many of those inside the cafe would have been taken hostage as they stopped in for their morning coffees.

Hundreds of police flooded into the area, streets were closed and offices evacuated. The public was told to stay away from Martin Place, home to the state premier's office, the Reserve Bank of Australia, and the headquarters of two of the nation's largest banks. The state parliament house is a few blocks away.

Television footage shot through the cafe's windows showed several people with their arms in the air and hands pressed against the glass, and two people holding up what appeared to be a black flag with white Arabic writing on it.



This image taken from video shows people holding up hands inside a cafe in Sydney, Australia Monday, …

Zain Ali, the head of the Islamic Studies Research Unit at the University of Auckland, said it was difficult to read the message because media images showed only the lower part of the flag. But he believed it was the Shahada, or declaration of faith, largely because a black flag with white writing in a contemporary context often contains that message. He said he could make out the word "Muhammad."

Ali said the Shahada translates as "There is no deity of worship except God (Allah), and Muhammad is the messenger of God." It is considered the first pillar of Islam's five pillars of faith, and has been used by groups like al-Qaida and Islamic State but wasn't invented by them, Ali said.

"We don't know whether this is politically motivated, although obviously there are some indications that it could be," Prime Minister Tony Abbott told reporters in the nation's capital, Canberra. "We have to appreciate that even in a society such as ours, there are people who would wish to do us harm."

A police spokeswoman said no injuries had been reported from the incident. Heavily armed officers were lined up outside the cafe, and a man with a backpack inside the cafe could be seen walking back and forth in front of the glass doors.

"Police have been in attendance and have controlled the situation from very early this morning," said Scipione, the police commissioner. "We are at this stage continuing to secure and make sure that we are doing all we can to bring this to a peaceful outcome."

Abbott said the National Security Committee of Cabinet met to be briefed on the situation.

"The whole point of politically motivated violence is to scare people out of being themselves," Abbott said. "Australia is a peaceful, open and generous society — nothing should ever change that. And that's why I would urge all Australians today to go about their business as usual."

Newcastle Herald wrote:
NSW Police have confirmed the siege is over.

Shots have been fired, but police have not confirmed details of injuries or casualties.
Two hostages were reported as seen with injuries.

3:13am: Multiple hostages have been taken away by emergency services
Ambulance crews have entered the Lindt Cafe in Martin Place after the police confronted the gunman.

2:48am: More from the SMH's James Robertson, on Martin Place:
"Hostages came out in two groups. The first, a group of about five, with their hands up. That was after initial gunshots were fired. Then, witnesses say, after the volley, another group of roughly five."

READ more @ http://www.theherald.com.au/story/2767019/siege-ends-as-police-storm-cafe/?cs=303

(Sydney) Daily Telegraph wrote:
Sydney cafe siege ends in early hours
  By Sam McKeith and Toby Mann;   AAP   December 16, 2014 3:31AM

"SYDNEY siege is over. More details to follow," NSW police confirmed via Twitter about 2.40am (AEDT) on Tuesday.
The confirmation came after an escalation in the crisis about 2am, when five more hostages ran from the cafe where a gunman had been holed up with as many as 20 others since around 10am on Monday.

Initial television footage showed one man running out with his arms raised to police, who patted him down and escorted him to safety.
Minutes later, two more men and two women raced outside and were directed away by police.
Their escape was followed by what sounded like rapid gunfire as heavily-armed officers stormed the cafe.

A second volley of shots erupted before the cafe filled with police and paramedics.
A woman, thought to be middle-aged, was among at least four people carried from the scene on stretchers.
There was no word on the fate of the gunman, earlier identified as a 50-year-old self-styled sheik, Man Haron Monis.

READ more @ http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/breaking-news/hostages-run-from-sydney-cafe/story-fni0xqi3-1227157419956

[Look at the time ! Here I was, being mugged by two cats wanting breakfast @ 4:00 a.m. !    ].

The website claims that while Mr Cerminara did serve in the Australian Army from 2002-2004, he was “unceremoniously” discharged on the grounds of “Retention Not in the Service Interest”.
He was discharged under the rank of Gunner, otherwise known as a Private. It is just above the level of Recruit.
“We get information from veterans all over Australia,” said Phill Hobson, a spokesman for the website.
“When we get the tip we go ahead and research the person. We look at their military history and write it up.
“He’s a mongrel, the people that served with him in the army have said all kinds of reports about his horrible behaviour while he was serving.
“We think he’s a stupid, idiotic nut case, he’s just stirring up trouble. Instead of trying to make the whole thing work, he’s making it worse.
“His views are not necessarily those of the people that he served with.”

AUST gets wake-call with Sydney terror. Only Daily Telegraph caught the bloody outcome at 2.00 am. Congrats.

veya_victaous wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2874121/Far-right-group-leader-blames-left-wing-bigots-Sydney-hostage-crisis-terrorism-expert-says-racist-attacks-against-Australian-Muslims-likely.html

I personally know Ralph he is the chairman of the ADL and I have heard him claim to be ex-SAS,
look up Australian & New Zealand Military Imposters, http://www.anzmi.net/index.php/component/sobipro/?pid=349&sid=409:Cerminara

The website claims that while Mr Cerminara did serve in the Australian Army from 2002-2004, he was “unceremoniously” discharged on the grounds of “Retention Not in the Service Interest”.
He was discharged under the rank of Gunner, otherwise known as a Private. It is just above the level of Recruit.
“We get information from veterans all over Australia,” said Phill Hobson, a spokesman for the website.
“When we get the tip we go ahead and research the person. We look at their military history and write it up.
“He’s a mongrel, the people that served with him in the army have said all kinds of reports about his horrible behaviour while he was serving.
“We think he’s a stupid, idiotic nut case, he’s just stirring up trouble. Instead of trying to make the whole thing work, he’s making it worse.
“His views are not necessarily those of the people that he served with.”

he is just a racist nutbag his ideas are as fundamentalist as the terrorists.

veya_victaous wrote:
Seems Police killed all the dead...

A little bit silly the way they stormed it, they had guys in full bomb suits and he only had a shot gun... was the spraying the room with bullets really necessary? where was the sharpshooter?

I know it is real life but that would be a fail or very poor on pretty much any video game.

RIP innocent hostages
So sad so close to the holidays

eddie wrote:Why do Muslims want to terrorise people?
Sorry guys, but this was a Muslim, was it not?

These hardcore Muslims should be stopped.

eddie wrote:Why do Muslims want to terrorise people?
Sorry guys, but this was a Muslim, was it not?

These hardcore Muslims should be stopped.

eddie wrote:
Why do Muslims want to terrorise people?
Sorry guys, but this was a Muslim, was it not?

These hardcore Muslims should be stopped.

Nems wrote:

eddie wrote:
Why do Muslims want to terrorise people?
Sorry guys, but this was a Muslim, was it not?

These hardcore Muslims should be stopped.

Quite right as should all the ones in tacit agreement.
Time to stop contemplating our navels and fight back
Hard.

eddie wrote:Erm whatever Wolf.
This whole thread has been discussing the siege where a madman held people hostage and killed a few.
This wasn't a lonely outcast this was a Muslim attack.
Why are you all beating around the bush?

Enlarge
Caption

SYDNEY: More than 40 Australian Muslim groups on Monday (Dec 15) jointly condemned a siege at a Sydney cafe in which hostages were taken by an armed man and an Islamic flag displayed.

"We reject any attempt to take the innocent life of any human being or to instil fear and terror into their hearts," they said in a statement.

The black flag shown at a window in the Lindt cafe was one commonly used by militant groups bearing the shahada, or profession of faith in Islam. It said: "There is no God but Allah; Mohammed is his messenger."

The Muslim groups said the inscription "is not representative of a political statement, but reaffirms a testimony of faith that has been misappropriated by misguided individuals that represent no-one but themselves".

"Any such despicable act only serves to play into the agendas of those who seek to destroy the goodwill of the people of Australia and to further damage and ridicule the religion of Islam and Australian Muslims throughout this country," it added.

"Our immediate thoughts go to the hostages and their loved ones. We pray for their safety and hope this matter is resolved quickly and peacefully."

Religious leaders across Australia on Monday called on their followers to unite and pray for a peaceful end to the Sydney siege.

Mosques, synagogues and churches across the country welcomed worshippers on Monday night, in what their leaders said was a show of community solidarity. "In times of great adversity it is imperative that we remain calm, united and stand together," Lebanese Muslim Association president Samier Dandan said.

Original Quill wrote:

eddie wrote:Why do Muslims want to terrorise people?
Sorry guys, but this was a Muslim, was it not?

These hardcore Muslims should be stopped.

He was also extremely short.  Radical shorties have to be watched very closely.  Shorties have a much different outlook on life.  They don't see things the same as decent, common folk like you and I.  Their view is aimed much lower, at more-or-less the lower strata of society.  Their perspective skews their social, and particularly their moral, and hence political ideas.

This is especially the case when they are veterans.  Veterans have special skills.  Shorties who are veterans have gone to special training sites, where they learn to disrupt society and bring the ideology or common outlook down to their level.  They aim lower, and as a result achieve much less.

Don't let the shorties take over.  There will be a meeting at the Longfellow's Lodge at 8 pm tonight to discuss what to do about the short problem.

Eilzel wrote:Whatever the guys mental condition we must acknowledge that this was an ISIS inspired attack. They called for attacks like this by Muslims in western nations. Would this have happened as it did were there not the whole ME crisis right now? If IS had not called for lone wolf attacks would this man have still been inspired to go and take hostages this way? I find it hard to believe he would- same as with what happened in Canada.

I do not blame all Muslims. But this was an IS inspired attacked, and IS are Islamist fanatics- don't pretend religion is nothing to do with it when it blatantly is.

Eilzel wrote:I certainly agree the system is part of the problem. Does IS represent Islam? No, no one group or person can claim that- but is their ideology rooted in Islam? Yes it is. Do millions of Muslims see them as pursuing an Islamic cause? Yes they do. IS is as representative of Islam to its supporters as the Pope is of Christianity to Catholics. Back to what happened in Sydney, other similar attacks have happened sure, but this one was inspired by Islam, the man openly demonstrated as much.

Some of Australia’s most influential voices have admitted mistakes were made, and hopefully developments will come from these reviews.

“The system did not adequately deal with this individual, there’s no doubt about that,” Mr Abbott said today.

“This is why we’ve got to constantly be asking ourselves is this the best we can do. Frankly we’ve got to always be better.”

veya_victaous wrote:

eddie wrote:Erm whatever Wolf.
This whole thread has been discussing the siege where a madman held people hostage and killed a few.
This wasn't a lonely outcast this was a Muslim attack.
Why are you all beating around the bush?

NO Edds it was a lonely outcast
He was already basically excommunicated from the Muslim Community for Murdering his wife and falsely claiming to be a Cleric
He is as Muslim as the Crazy Guy that says Jesus wants him to kill abortion doctors...

he was roundly condemned STRAIGHT AWAY by all Muslim leaders here. It is only Murdoch papers that are even trying to suggest otherwise. really Murdoch is the biggest shit stirring hate monger out.

Glad to see that Here, were we do live together in peace, one loon has been called out for what he is One loon!!! the few Hundred hate messages have been drowned out by thousands of messages of unity from the community.

veya wrote:Also no one is blaming guns Neutral
as the one he used is a tool and needed by farmers.

Original Quill wrote:

veya wrote:Also no one is blaming guns Neutral
as the one he used is a tool and needed by farmers.

Guns are an inanimate object.  You can't blame them for an intentional act.

Gun control is only about removing the opportunity that guns present...for the mentally ill, for the drunk, for the quick tempered or abusive person.

If a person has a plan, and it involves shooting someone, he will lay his hands on a gun.  Case in point right here.

I think it's dangerous and misleading to argue that gun control is a panacea for all gun deaths.  Gun control just removes the immediate opportunity.

Original Quill wrote:Gun control only limits opportunity.  It cannot stop a person determined to get his hand of a firearm.

eddie wrote:  
Look I'm not saying all Muslims kill people.

YES, you have before now, and likely will do so again...

I'm saying; call a spade a spade.

You, Elizel and Nems are the ons calling a spade a shovel..

The guy did it in the name of Islam

He could have also done it in the name of Fred or Gertrude and the result would have beeen the same !

Just like the one who gunned down the children in Pakistan today.

THE TALIBAN murdered those children, in the end ~ they are beyond any religious zalotry..

Just because we don't want to come across as "racist" or "religionists" or whatever, doesn't mean we can't condemn those that do, things in the name of religion.

Just because somebody kills in the "name" of a religion DOESN'T mean that they genuinely believed their religion "makes" them do anything..
He was also a loner and a nutter with a criminal record

eddie wrote:
Erm whatever Wolf.
This whole thread has been discussing the siege where a madman held people hostage and killed a few.
This wasn't a lonely outcast this was a Muslim attack.
Why are you all beating around the bush?

veya_victaous wrote:

Original Quill wrote:Gun control only limits opportunity.  It cannot stop a person determined to get his hand of a firearm.

NOPE it has a massive impact on the social norms, public opinion and Behaviours around Fire arms and the Police attitude to citizens when arresting them.
Much more than Just access and opportunity they are the Immediate changes but in less than 2 decades the attitudes towards citizen with guns and the needs of citizens to own guns changes dramatically. When they first got rid of them people went on about self defence and how that was a valid 'need' now that would get you looked at like a potential murderer and definitely a bit of a nutjob for suggesting you need a gun to protect yourself.

Like I said in the other thread
the US cant even begin to address a lot of issues around Racism Because every one is too worried (with good reason) that the other guy is going to shoot them.
I can Guarantee you attitudes change when everyone knows the other guy isn't going to shoot them.

Even Ben has said he owns a hand gun for protection.
Here that would make him a weirdo nutjob Or a Criminal, either way many people would report him to the police, If he was licensed he would be likely to lose it for expressing the idea of using against another human being.

we have a 10th your population but only a 1000th of your gun deaths, statically the difference is hundreds to 1 in lives lost.

veya_victaous wrote:@Quill
Umm same here





after the port Arthur massacre their was public support for the idea something had to be done, it probably helped that the move was implemented by John Howard one of the most RW prime ministers. (imagine If Reagan did it)

the thing is we are now 18 years on and people have got over it, the idea that 'a gun does not protect'  many at the time complained about but that is majority opinion by a long way. So that is what I am pointing out that the US mental link between guns and patriotism will fade Like ours has.... Because well 'the safety' the reduction in gun deaths, the fact police don't draw there guns on people by default.

veya_victaous wrote:@quill
John Howard may have been RW but
no one can deny he looked out for the best interest of Australia and was a shocked by the port Arthur massacre as anyone else.

It is a Shame that after Columbine it Didn't happen in the USA
Unfortunately I think you have all become too Accepting of it, like mass shooting are just part of Life and can't be avoided... I have actually heard Americans say that.