Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
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Lone Wolf
Ben Reilly
veya_victaous
Independent Thoughts
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Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
I came across this commentary while reading the news. It's a little humor for election day that doesn't berate either party. It simply makes a great argument for ignorant people to stay home on election day. Thought I'd share!
Dear Ignorant People,
Please don’t vote today. Don’t exercise your rights today. Don’t participate in the sacred democratic ritual. Just sit on your couch and watch reruns on Bravo, or whatever it is you do with your time. But please don’t vote. Please, dear God, I beg you. Don’t vote.
And realize, friends, that I am not insulting you. The word ‘ignorant’ simply means ‘lacking knowledge and awareness.’ It doesn’t necessarily mean stupid or idiotic. It doesn’t mean bad or evil. It just means that you do not have all of the necessary information to make a considered and thoughtful decision. That’s OK, really. Maybe there’s even something to be said for it. But it doesn’t belong in the ballot box. Not now. Not when there’s so much at stake.
See, although I am pretty well informed about current events, politics, the functioning of government, and most of the important issues of the day, I am admittedly ignorant in other areas. Perhaps even all other areas. It’s with great shame that I confess to being completely mystified anytime the conversation turns to quantum mechanics, auto repair, interior design, French cuisine, the history of equestrian semi-nomadic civilizations in 3rd century central Eurasia, basic mathematics, Arctic zoology, plumbing, astrology, and approximately 40,000 other subjects.
Therefore, if I’m asked to teach a math class, or fix a broken toilet, or cook a dozens crepes, or predict future events by analyzing the constellations, I will decline the invitation and leave the matter in more competent hands. Particularly if there are already a million more qualified people on site, taking care of business.
In other words, I’m not going to be the guy who pulls over at the scene of an accident to “help,” even though there are six other cars stopped, plus two ambulances, a police car, and a fire truck. There is nothing else for me to add. I can be of no assistance. I do not bring anything to the table that the emergency personnel and the half dozen other shameless rubberneckers can’t provide. If I stop, it will only be because I want to feel important and then drive home and regale my wife with the exaggerated tales of my heroic deeds.
That’s what voting day has become in America. Half the people who show up are only in it for the “I Voted” sticker and the feeling that they’ve Done Their Part. Except, unfortunately, you haven’t done your part if this is the only day you Do Your Part.
Being an active and engaged citizen means keeping up to speed, getting involved, and participating in the discussion every day. It means learning about how our government is supposed to work, how our laws are supposed to be made, and how our Constitution is supposed to dictate all of these things.
And then it means learning about how our government actually works (it doesn’t), and how our laws are actually made (by executive fiat), and how our Constitution actually factors into this equation (not at all).
If it were up to me, there would be some kind of short, easy, very straightforward quiz determining who gets to enter the ballot box today. Nothing complicated. No trick questions. Just fundamental things like:
-When was our nation founded?
-Who is the Secretary of State?
-What is the First Amendment?
-How many states are in the Union?
-Name one Supreme Court Justice?
-What does the term ‘national debt’ mean?
-Are you only voting for the candidates who gave you a pin at the state fair last month?
-What planet are we on?
-What galaxy is this?
I’d say we could weed out 40 percent of the electorate with the first six questions, and then another ten with the last three.
I wish there was an easier way of doing this. Maybe in the future they’ll invent some kind of Ignorance Test — kind of like the pregnancy kind — where you pee on a stick and it comes up either “+This person has a clue” or “-This dude has no freaking idea what’s going on.”
Until such a thing exists, there needs to be at least some sort of filtration system. We must erect barriers to guard against the Walking Discombobulated, who wish to pounce upon our Democratic System and devour its guts while it screams in helpless agony.
Alas, there is nothing to protect it. We are exposed and vulnerable. They are all invited in: the perplexed, the uninitiated, the illiterate, the obtuse and the benighted. The gates are opened and they stream in by the thousand to eat our country’s soul and take Election Day selfies.
Indeed, we don’t just make it possible for ignorant people to vote, we encourage it.
The idea has taken hold that voting should be the easiest, most comfortable, most uncumbersome thing you do all year. The future and fate of our entire nation hangs in the balance and we think it ought to be decided with the same energy and effort it takes to soil your underpants. If any semblance of purpose or competence is required of this apathetic mass known as the American electorate, we stomp our feet and shout that a great injustice has taken place.
Maybe it is an injustice. Maybe every single human being, no matter how willfully dense and repulsively complacent, should have the exact same power and responsibility as even the most in-tuned, eager, and knowledgeable citizen. Maybe a man who pays attention, pays his bills, and pays his taxes ought to be weighed precisely the same as a man who has never in his life paid any of those things. Maybe that’s ‘fair.’ I don’t know.
But what I do know is that it’s not how any Democratic system, including our own, was ever meant to function. And I do know that it leads invariably to disaster and ruin.
It’s not your responsibility to vote just for the sake of voting. It’s your responsibility to stay engaged and apprized of the national situation — and then vote. If you haven’t completed the first step, do not proceed to the second. Dear God, please, do not proceed to the second.
This is a conspiracy, don’t you see it? A conspiracy. An honest-to-goodness conspiracy. The Powers That Be know that active and enlightened voters are the greatest threat to their oligarchy. They also know that they cannot (yet) physically prevent those primed and savvy individuals from casting a ballot, so instead they drown the informed votes in a sea of bewildered ignorance.
They carry in the Oblivious and the Self-Satisfied, and pour their incomprehension all over our nation’s polling places until the smart votes are sufficiently diluted. It is a brilliant scheme, and it has paid dividends for them.
That’s why the elites in government love “get out the vote” campaigns starring a rapper and a B-list feminist celebrity.
If you need Lil John and Lena Dunham to tell you to vote, then you shouldn’t.
As a matter of fact, if you are even a fan of either person, then you shouldn’t (remind me later because that needs to go on the entrance exam).
Ignorant People, the greatest service you can provide today is staying as far away from a voting booth as possible. Your nation is calling on you, Ignorant People. It needs you, in this moment of great consequence, to do the right thing. And, in this case, the right thing is nothing.
Stay home.
If you want a sticker, I’ll make some for you. They’ll say: “I DIDN’T vote today!”
Wear it with pride. You earned it.
Thank you and God bless.
Sincerely,
America
Independent Thoughts- Forum Detective ????♀️
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Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
or you go the other way like Australia and make voting mandatory.
the biggest issue is it is easier to convince and idiot to go vote for you than a moderate or smart person so by forcing everyone to get off their ass and get to the ballot box to get their name crossed off (technically you can leave your ballot blank) you make all the reasonable people choose someone and they will weed out the worst of the candidates (which are the best in the eyes of idiots and currently get way to much representation in US politics)
the biggest issue is it is easier to convince and idiot to go vote for you than a moderate or smart person so by forcing everyone to get off their ass and get to the ballot box to get their name crossed off (technically you can leave your ballot blank) you make all the reasonable people choose someone and they will weed out the worst of the candidates (which are the best in the eyes of idiots and currently get way to much representation in US politics)
veya_victaous- The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo
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Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
We've got to do something to fix this. I heard about a survey of voters where many respondents said they were googling candidates' names the night before the election to figure out who they'd vote for. Really, if this is your approach you don't deserve any political power.
Meanwhile ... WHAT THE FUCK, America? What is everyone so angry about?
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/no-wonder-the-guy-so-unpopular
Meanwhile ... WHAT THE FUCK, America? What is everyone so angry about?
David Letterman’s monologue last night included some observations that stood out for me:
“This is what happens when we have the midterm elections. The Republicans, of course, have turned against Obama, and the Democrats have also turned against Obama. That’s a lonely, lonely gig being president, ladies and gentlemen.
“Take a look at this: gas under $3 a gallon – under $3 a gallon. Unemployment under 6%, whoever thought? Stock market breaking records every day. No wonder the guy is so unpopular.”
As the saying goes, it’s funny because it’s true.
***
In her latest Washington Post column, Rachel highlighted the role of fear as a campaign theme this year, adding, “For all the end-of-the-world clamor around this year’s elections, you’d never guess that the economy is growing at 3.5 percent, unemployment is below 6 percent and gas prices are way, way down. Even Halloween candy was cheap this year. But good news, schmood news. This year, we’ve decided to be miserable and afraid.”
At this point, I’m not even sure what conditions would have to look like for the mainstream to see the nation as being on the right track. We have falling unemployment, increasing growth, rising stock indexes, a shrinking deficit, and increasing economic confidence. More Americans are gaining access to affordable medical care. More Americans are graduating from high school and entering higher ed. Gas prices keep dropping. Even the federal response to the Ebola threat has turned out to be pretty darn effective, and Joni Ernst’s opinions notwithstanding, only one guy in the country actually has the virus.
Putting aside whether the White House gets credit for any of the developments, what exactly would a country moving “in the right direction” look like? Shouldn’t current conditions meet that standard?
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/no-wonder-the-guy-so-unpopular
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
I strongly suggest you all read (and I mean read not watch - the film missed the point) Starship Troopers.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Lone Wolf wrote:sphinx wrote:
I strongly suggest you all read (and I mean read not watch - the film missed the point) Starship Troopers.
I read 'Starship Troopers' back in the 1970s...
I then saw the movie some 20-odd years later when it first came out ~ any links between the book and the film are pretty thin and tenuous by comparison..
Considering it was written in 1958/'59, we had a world still rebuilding after WWII, in the middle of the Cold War, McCarthyism and "Reds under your beds" scares running riot across the USA back in the day, and fallout and big questions after the Vietnam War still some years off; it certainly gives an interesting reflection of the type of recruit that the military would have been aiming for back in that era, and what it would have expectd from its soldiers and officers.
To be fair the film is one of those rare film of books that I do enjoy - but that is because I enjoy the film in its own right and consider it have nothing to do with the book other than the title.
I find the book far more interesting because of its it political system than the military bit. It is especially interesting when you consider that initially Heinlein imagined that rolls like teaching and nursing would also constitute service to earn citizenship.
I think Heinlein had the right idea with the concept of having to earn the vote so long as the opportunity to earn it is fully open to everyone. It echos the first post here talking about people voting without any idea of what they are voting for because they simply cannot be bothered to go and find out.
As I think everyone on here has realized I am politically active - I am a member of a party and I do read about issues and consider what is involved. It does sometimes do my head in when I am out campaigning running into people who cannot be assed to find stuff out for themselves or even think for themselves spewing out some rubbish they have read without thinking about it even when it makes no sense. I really wish more people would engage properly - but I suspect it is a pipe dream and aint gonna happen.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
So basically because you yourself believe you have the right views on something even though that would be very much debateable Sphinx, the reality is you get frustrated because people do not agree with you and where your whole approach will fall apart winning people over. Actually that is good news to me, because where you are dead set on your views being right even though UKIP has yet to provide anything of economic value in policies, you are only going by what again you believe to be best, with little experince in this field.
So here is your attempt to prove your view is right based on evidence and sound reasoning on your parties policies and we can judge whether they have value or you yourself are in fact not being open to the fact you could be wrong.
So lets start with economic policies.
So here is your attempt to prove your view is right based on evidence and sound reasoning on your parties policies and we can judge whether they have value or you yourself are in fact not being open to the fact you could be wrong.
So lets start with economic policies.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
No I do not get frustrated with people not agreeing with me I get frustrated with people refusing to think.
For example the statement from the recent by election when the person says I voted UKIP the tory bloke was useless. Or when someone tells a local candidate they wont vote UKIP because UKIP is racist when the candidates Thai wife is right next to him.
Try http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ukipdev/pages/96/attachments/original/1396261328/EFd_doc_2.0.pdf?1396261328
and http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people
For example the statement from the recent by election when the person says I voted UKIP the tory bloke was useless. Or when someone tells a local candidate they wont vote UKIP because UKIP is racist when the candidates Thai wife is right next to him.
Try http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/ukipdev/pages/96/attachments/original/1396261328/EFd_doc_2.0.pdf?1396261328
and http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
That is not going to convince people by provioding me with the policies but to explain them.
The fact is UKIP is giving off a poor image in regards to how they view immigrants this was evident when Farage made poor unfounded comments on Romanians, which in affect was racist to say he would not live next door to one.
Image is key these days in why people do vote, so it is a much harder battle to convince over policies.
So because you disagree with an image, you then have to convince them their view is unfounded, being frustrated achieves nothing.
The fact is UKIP is giving off a poor image in regards to how they view immigrants this was evident when Farage made poor unfounded comments on Romanians, which in affect was racist to say he would not live next door to one.
Image is key these days in why people do vote, so it is a much harder battle to convince over policies.
So because you disagree with an image, you then have to convince them their view is unfounded, being frustrated achieves nothing.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Yeah on the subject of not thinking - I do think. Absolutely nothing I can say or do or show you is going to alter your stance on UKIP. The same way nothing will ever convince Philagain that any party other than Labour is worth supporting. So it is pointless me wasting energy trying to convince.
You say that image is key in why people vote. Have you stopped to consider if that is a good thing? Or that the problem of people voting on image is just the problem we are talking about?
You say that image is key in why people vote. Have you stopped to consider if that is a good thing? Or that the problem of people voting on image is just the problem we are talking about?
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
I never claimed whether it is a good thing or not but it is a major factor in voting where again you have to set out to change that perception. UKIP is very much popular based on farage being a good puppet, that he can deliver good reheasred speeches or points though as seen can come unstuck.
Sorry if you take a negative view point with me, you concede already to many other people you will not convince them because the reality is over 80% of the population do not support or will vote for UKIp, thus your approach is again wrong and will achieve very little.
Anyway I am just one poster the floor as open for you to convince many on here and you have shied away from doing so, not the best start to a political campaign.
Sorry if you take a negative view point with me, you concede already to many other people you will not convince them because the reality is over 80% of the population do not support or will vote for UKIp, thus your approach is again wrong and will achieve very little.
Anyway I am just one poster the floor as open for you to convince many on here and you have shied away from doing so, not the best start to a political campaign.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Oh dear you do have it wrong dont you? UKIP is not popular and growing in popularity because of Farages image or puppetry. UKIPs image is actually a negative (I should know because I work with it directly) UKIP is actually bucking the "votes are about image" belief that so infects LibLabCon.
UKIPs image is that of a racist jinoistic one policy protest party (actually exactly the image you hold of it) and there are 3 mainstream parties with significant funds making a lot of effort to try and keep it that way.
The reality of the party is very different - as those who stop paying attention to the image are finding. They do not all decide to join or support but they do change their view of the party.
If you were open to being convinced you would actually take the time to go through the links I gave you - and I for one know how much is contained in those links. You have clearly not bothered - others on here may well bother.
UKIPs image is that of a racist jinoistic one policy protest party (actually exactly the image you hold of it) and there are 3 mainstream parties with significant funds making a lot of effort to try and keep it that way.
The reality of the party is very different - as those who stop paying attention to the image are finding. They do not all decide to join or support but they do change their view of the party.
If you were open to being convinced you would actually take the time to go through the links I gave you - and I for one know how much is contained in those links. You have clearly not bothered - others on here may well bother.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
First of all:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/apr/28/ukip-national-newspapers
Second I think UKIP is a 3 policy party.
Immigration.
EU
Nationalism
So again you perceive wrong which is a massive failing where you already perceive wrongly what others views are. If you predict what they are then again it will be a failing. My view is more people are supporting UKIP based off fear, fueled by them off the 3 points stated, where also many people are already disllusioned by main stream parties. Though they will soon see as I have just read the policies how short sighted their policies are which do not offer again how they will finance this. Much speculation based around leaving on a path they themselves cannot predict.
You also get agitated over your party very easily, when just debating here, that is not good either, which is also a failing where you will fail to convince people to the point it is not defensive but anger at people for being at odds with your views. I am open to many things but it is very easy to read behind the lines of what UKIP stand for. As stated, their 3 main views are based upon fear, they thus play up to fears of people.
I have read the links and as I rightly stated to you, they provide little to how their policies will be viable, they are reliant on many things happenning, which can easily fall flat on them espcially when they have to negoatiate with many nations. It leaves not only the UK in a very vunerable position but could create a disater for the UK. UKIP does not factor in hardly any propblems they may occur and take the view they will be able to sail through negoatiations, it is again a massive failing, one that will be brought to attention more and more as the general election looms.
So yes i am open to many things, and the biggest is how UKIP has no contingency views on its policies, and this will spell them disaster in a general election. They will win some seats but will become more and more xposed to the problems of their policies, all of which you yourself cannot answer. hence why I stated to you just posting me their polices where they do not factor in many aspects which you yourself wish to shy away from answering is not going to convince anyone.
Not the best at convincing people are you Sphinx, if this is your view to show hostility. Think you need to rething your strategy, because let me say I am very happy at how you are responding as you will gather little support this way. You need to understand people to win them over, clearly something you need lots of work on.
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/apr/28/ukip-national-newspapers
Second I think UKIP is a 3 policy party.
Immigration.
EU
Nationalism
So again you perceive wrong which is a massive failing where you already perceive wrongly what others views are. If you predict what they are then again it will be a failing. My view is more people are supporting UKIP based off fear, fueled by them off the 3 points stated, where also many people are already disllusioned by main stream parties. Though they will soon see as I have just read the policies how short sighted their policies are which do not offer again how they will finance this. Much speculation based around leaving on a path they themselves cannot predict.
You also get agitated over your party very easily, when just debating here, that is not good either, which is also a failing where you will fail to convince people to the point it is not defensive but anger at people for being at odds with your views. I am open to many things but it is very easy to read behind the lines of what UKIP stand for. As stated, their 3 main views are based upon fear, they thus play up to fears of people.
I have read the links and as I rightly stated to you, they provide little to how their policies will be viable, they are reliant on many things happenning, which can easily fall flat on them espcially when they have to negoatiate with many nations. It leaves not only the UK in a very vunerable position but could create a disater for the UK. UKIP does not factor in hardly any propblems they may occur and take the view they will be able to sail through negoatiations, it is again a massive failing, one that will be brought to attention more and more as the general election looms.
So yes i am open to many things, and the biggest is how UKIP has no contingency views on its policies, and this will spell them disaster in a general election. They will win some seats but will become more and more xposed to the problems of their policies, all of which you yourself cannot answer. hence why I stated to you just posting me their polices where they do not factor in many aspects which you yourself wish to shy away from answering is not going to convince anyone.
Not the best at convincing people are you Sphinx, if this is your view to show hostility. Think you need to rething your strategy, because let me say I am very happy at how you are responding as you will gather little support this way. You need to understand people to win them over, clearly something you need lots of work on.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Brasidas wrote:First of all:
http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/apr/28/ukip-national-newspapers
Second I think UKIP is a 3 policy party.
Immigration.
EU
Nationalism
So again you perceive wrong which is a massive failing where you already perceive wrongly what others views are. If you predict what they are then again it will be a failing. My view is more people are supporting UKIP based off fear, fueled by them off the 3 points stated, where also many people are already disllusioned by main stream parties. Though they will soon see as I have just read the policies how short sighted their policies are which do not offer again how they will finance this. Much speculation based around leaving on a path they themselves cannot predict.
You also get agitated over your party very easily, when just debating here, that is not good either, which is also a failing where you will fail to convince people to the point it is not defensive but anger at people for being at odds with your views. I am open to many things but it is very easy to read behind the lines of what UKIP stand for. As stated, their 3 main views are based upon fear, they thus play up to fears of people.
I have read the links and as I rightly stated to you, they provide little to how their policies will be viable, they are reliant on many things happenning, which can easily fall flat on them espcially when they have to negoatiate with many nations. It leaves not only the UK in a very vunerable position but could create a disater for the UK. UKIP does not factor in hardly any propblems they may occur and take the view they will be able to sail through negoatiations, it is again a massive failing, one that will be brought to attention more and more as the general election looms.
So yes i am open to many things, and the biggest is how UKIP has no contingency views on its policies, and this will spell them disaster in a general election. They will win some seats but will become more and more xposed to the problems of their policies, all of which you yourself cannot answer. hence why I stated to you just posting me their polices where they do not factor in many aspects which you yourself wish to shy away from answering is not going to convince anyone.
Not the best at convincing people are you Sphinx, if this is your view to show hostility. Think you need to rething your strategy, because let me say I am very happy at how you are responding as you will gather little support this way. You need to understand people to win them over, clearly something you need lots of work on.
You are too kind.
UKIP are a one policy party- the EU- nationalism and immigration are just fortunate tools they can use the bring people into their 'one policy' catch-all BS card
Eilzel- Speaker of the House
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Age : 39
Location : Manchester
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Maybe to kind, but that is how I see them Eilzel, a 3 point party, which I was hoping to see some interesting contingencies to their policies, which as seen has not been forth coming.
Shame really, but it speaks volumnes about UKIP policies how they are placing the UK (if they gained power) as if it was one massive lottery.
Shame really, but it speaks volumnes about UKIP policies how they are placing the UK (if they gained power) as if it was one massive lottery.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Ben_Reilly wrote:We've got to do something to fix this. I heard about a survey of voters where many respondents said they were googling candidates' names the night before the election to figure out who they'd vote for. Really, if this is your approach you don't deserve any political power.
Meanwhile ... WHAT THE FUCK, America? What is everyone so angry about?
In her latest Washington Post column, Rachel highlighted the role of fear as a campaign theme this year, adding, “For all the end-of-the-world clamor around this year’s elections, you’d never guess that the economy is growing at 3.5 percent, unemployment is below 6 percent and gas prices are way, way down. Even Halloween candy was cheap this year. But good news, schmood news. This year, we’ve decided to be miserable and afraid.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/no-wonder-the-guy-so-unpopular
nail.on.head.
fear. nobodys helping me so why should I help others. let the working poor continue to receive a non-living wage and that should keep the welfare benefits enrollments high cause God forbid those brilliant hardworking corporations or billionaires cant get another yacht or jet that they can write off.
case in point. my state of Arizona. 43out of 50 in education. $400 million in debt and all under a republican governor. but hey lets spend billions on getting the Superbowl here cause that's the best! or were not going to help federal agencies because they Suck but when a disaster strikes here you can betchya we'll be screaming holy hell for federal support.
I feel sick.
Cass- the Nerd Queen of Nerds, the Lover of Books who Cooks
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Age : 56
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
@didge and eilzel - you are proving my point.
How you perceive UKIP and what UKIP actually is are very difficult. You perceive it as a 1 or 3 policy party - this does not change even when evidence is shown to you.
http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people - that is incidentally 17 category headings with more specific policy overviews within them.
Those who are open to convincing actually go and look at this document and give consideration to what is in it before deciding how many if any policies they agree with, dont care about, or disagree with.
Those who are not open to convincing keep parroting what they are told by those opposed to UKIP namely that it does not have any policies.
How you perceive UKIP and what UKIP actually is are very difficult. You perceive it as a 1 or 3 policy party - this does not change even when evidence is shown to you.
http://www.ukip.org/policies_for_people - that is incidentally 17 category headings with more specific policy overviews within them.
Those who are open to convincing actually go and look at this document and give consideration to what is in it before deciding how many if any policies they agree with, dont care about, or disagree with.
Those who are not open to convincing keep parroting what they are told by those opposed to UKIP namely that it does not have any policies.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
They may have a multitude of polices, but they will in the main factor back tot he 3 mian views they hold, which you cannot escape from Sphinx. Where again there views and arguments centre very much so on them, I mean how many times do you hear Nigel for example argue about his other polices?
This is the reality they do rely heavily on fear, and you just wish to deny this, that is your choice. The document as already stated fails to consider contingency, it is reliant in everything going their way, a massive lottery. Again has UKIP factored in everything?
No.
Like many parties of the further to the right side they have always used fear to gain support, you only have to look at polls by UKIp supporters to see what is the biggest concerns they have.
Immigration.
EU
There is no refuting this, so UKIP itself is very reliant on people of fear.
Fact
This is the reality they do rely heavily on fear, and you just wish to deny this, that is your choice. The document as already stated fails to consider contingency, it is reliant in everything going their way, a massive lottery. Again has UKIP factored in everything?
No.
Like many parties of the further to the right side they have always used fear to gain support, you only have to look at polls by UKIp supporters to see what is the biggest concerns they have.
Immigration.
EU
There is no refuting this, so UKIP itself is very reliant on people of fear.
Fact
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
I actually hear Nigel argue about other policies quite a lot - but then again I am A) listening to him and B) more likely to hear him speaking in the back room as it were.
All politics rely on fear - if you fear economic ruin you vote Tory because you believe they will drive the economy (or you believe Labour will trash the economy). If you fear inequality you vote Labour because you believe they will legislate against it (or you believe Tories encourage it)
So if more people are turning to UKIP it is because more people are developing fear and UKIP is the only party that appears to be listening to their fears.
You seem to have the idea that if a fear is considered by those in authority to be pointless, groundless or illogical it should just be ignored. Ignoring peoples fears does not work - they will express themselves sooner or later - the French Revolution, Russia etc. Pointless, groundless or illogical it will express itself.
All politics rely on fear - if you fear economic ruin you vote Tory because you believe they will drive the economy (or you believe Labour will trash the economy). If you fear inequality you vote Labour because you believe they will legislate against it (or you believe Tories encourage it)
So if more people are turning to UKIP it is because more people are developing fear and UKIP is the only party that appears to be listening to their fears.
You seem to have the idea that if a fear is considered by those in authority to be pointless, groundless or illogical it should just be ignored. Ignoring peoples fears does not work - they will express themselves sooner or later - the French Revolution, Russia etc. Pointless, groundless or illogical it will express itself.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
I disagree, more people are susceptible to fear arguments, where this always seems to rise on and after a recession. It is always about people looking for reasons to blame when most of the time they have created their own problems. Look again at mass immigration here which has come about from where there was a problem filling job roles, thus people here created ther need of employers to look else where to fill jobsand thus many immigrants were needed.
The point is though is the fear substanciated in regards to immigration and the EU, that is what can be argued, where in my view the rhetoric used is based upon unfounded fears like crime with immigrants for example. This is a poor sterotype view held by some people and used often by UKIP, again an unfounded fear, which peo-ple are susceptible to believe.
So fear comes about from blame, where people look to blame others for if things go wrong, proving that much of the fear is unfounded, where it castigates people wrongly.
The point is though is the fear substanciated in regards to immigration and the EU, that is what can be argued, where in my view the rhetoric used is based upon unfounded fears like crime with immigrants for example. This is a poor sterotype view held by some people and used often by UKIP, again an unfounded fear, which peo-ple are susceptible to believe.
So fear comes about from blame, where people look to blame others for if things go wrong, proving that much of the fear is unfounded, where it castigates people wrongly.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
I'd say that all far-right politics work on fear. Progressive/liberal/etc. politics don't and can't succeed that way; no leader on the left wins elections by fear-mongering (people just don't respond to that from the left).
Left-leaning candidates succeed with aspirational messages of a better future, a "yes we can," "change you can believe in" sort of message.
That's why politicians who are concerned about the effects of climate change need to stop fixating on the dire predictions of what will happen if we do nothing, and instead focus on the positive. The only time negativity works is when it's coming from a right-wing movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpOUctySD68
Left-leaning candidates succeed with aspirational messages of a better future, a "yes we can," "change you can believe in" sort of message.
That's why politicians who are concerned about the effects of climate change need to stop fixating on the dire predictions of what will happen if we do nothing, and instead focus on the positive. The only time negativity works is when it's coming from a right-wing movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpOUctySD68
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
sometimes the left do use fear too. fear of big corporations, fear of the USA (maybe why you don't get it in the USA ) environmental fears and even econmic inequity is partially fear based. here LW is probably seen as safer for your job if you are lower worker and RW if you are higher or with aspirations.
I think either side focuses of different fears. RW has become more fear driven (currently) but at its core really should not be (it is actually pro risk in economic outlook)
I think either side focuses of different fears. RW has become more fear driven (currently) but at its core really should not be (it is actually pro risk in economic outlook)
veya_victaous- The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo
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Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Cass wrote:Ben_Reilly wrote:We've got to do something to fix this. I heard about a survey of voters where many respondents said they were googling candidates' names the night before the election to figure out who they'd vote for. Really, if this is your approach you don't deserve any political power.
Meanwhile ... WHAT THE FUCK, America? What is everyone so angry about?
In her latest Washington Post column, Rachel highlighted the role of fear as a campaign theme this year, adding, “For all the end-of-the-world clamor around this year’s elections, you’d never guess that the economy is growing at 3.5 percent, unemployment is below 6 percent and gas prices are way, way down. Even Halloween candy was cheap this year. But good news, schmood news. This year, we’ve decided to be miserable and afraid.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/no-wonder-the-guy-so-unpopular
nail.on.head.
fear. nobodys helping me so why should I help others. let the working poor continue to receive a non-living wage and that should keep the welfare benefits enrollments high cause God forbid those brilliant hardworking corporations or billionaires cant get another yacht or jet that they can write off.
case in point. my state of Arizona. 43out of 50 in education. $400 million in debt and all under a republican governor. but hey lets spend billions on getting the Superbowl here cause that's the best! or were not going to help federal agencies because they Suck but when a disaster strikes here you can betchya we'll be screaming holy hell for federal support.
I feel sick.
I agree...but those are piddlin' problems. They shit green bricks over education or feeding the poor, and blame the Feds for reckless spending, but then the idiots will vote to spend $-trillions going to war in a campaign over which end of the egg to break.
Even a film script has to make sense...and it has an ending.
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Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
veya_victaous wrote:sometimes the left do use fear too. fear of big corporations, fear of the USA (maybe why you don't get it in the USA ) environmental fears and even econmic inequity is partially fear based. here LW is probably seen as safer for your job if you are lower worker and RW if you are higher or with aspirations.
I think either side focuses of different fears. RW has become more fear driven (currently) but at its core really should not be (it is actually pro risk in economic outlook)
I'm not saying the left never uses fear tactics, I'm saying that at least in the U.S., they don't work very well. For example, the 2004 presidential election -- we tried to make it about fear of Bush (the "anybody but Bush" gambit) and that failed, despite Bush being objectively one of the most horrible people ever to be born.
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
I can think of only one situation where fear works in the benefit of the person feeling this and in many cases it is very rare to happen. It can happen when the person fears losing those close to them, that they can perform extreme acts of bravery and feats that on a normal day they could never hope to replicate.
Sorry you had me thinking Ben if there was ever a time fear is helpful and this was all I could think of and thus agree fear is very negative, creating many problems.
Sorry you had me thinking Ben if there was ever a time fear is helpful and this was all I could think of and thus agree fear is very negative, creating many problems.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Original Quill wrote:
I agree...but those are piddlin' problems. They shit green bricks over education or feeding the poor, and blame the Feds for reckless spending, but then the idiots will vote to spend $-trillions going to war in a campaign over which end of the egg to break.
Even a film script has to make sense...and it has an ending.
that is one thing I have never understood about Americans
how can that be a bad thing? and what is the point of paying politicians if they are not doing those things
veya_victaous- The Mod Loki, Minister of Chaos & Candy, Emperor of the Southern Realms, Captain Kangaroo
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Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
You know, they estimate that 2/3 of eligible voters nation wide DID NOT VOTE!. That's disgraceful.
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Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Lurker wrote:You know, they estimate that 2/3 of eligible voters nation wide DID NOT VOTE!. That's disgraceful.
yep, apathy is very bad for democracy
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Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
Lurker wrote:You know, they estimate that 2/3 of eligible voters nation wide DID NOT VOTE!. That's disgraceful.
But is it disgraceful if people have lost faith in the system?
That to me is where I would be looking at what is going wrong. In this instance people have lost faith in the system, but unlike religion where losing faith can allow for freedom, this loss of faith allows for fear, loss of hope, unhappiness.
Right really am going now lol.
Guest- Guest
Re: Dear Ignorant People, Please DON'T Vote
I don't know if it is wrong, or just a sense of inefficacy...particularly in an off-year election like this was. The US holds elections in 2-year increments for the House, 4-year increments for the President, with 6-year terms sprinkled around for the Senators. This was only one of the House elections (and State) with 1/3 of the senate seats up. On a cost/benefit basis, how much is it worth?
It does point out one thing. Voters simply vote party or for someone they relate to. In the US they hardly are aware of the situation--like the fact that the Senate will switch sides because of this election.
In the past people never thought in dynamic parliamentary--or, that is to say, 'ruling party'--terms. They just voted for the guy/party on the individual level, with a huge cross-over in the middle.
It does point out one thing. Voters simply vote party or for someone they relate to. In the US they hardly are aware of the situation--like the fact that the Senate will switch sides because of this election.
In the past people never thought in dynamic parliamentary--or, that is to say, 'ruling party'--terms. They just voted for the guy/party on the individual level, with a huge cross-over in the middle.
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