Theresa May Announces New Laws To Combat British Jihadists

The Home Secretary is to bring in new laws to tackle British extremists, warning that the security threat to the UK will continue "for decades."

In the wake of the horrific execution of American journalist James Foley by a "cowardly" jihadist with an English accent, Theresa May said Britain must introduce all the legal powers necessary to win the struggle against terror.

The jihadist in the execution video, which shows Foley kneeling in the desert with his head shaved and wearing an orange jumpsuit before he is beheaded, is believed to be the ringleader of a group of UK-born extremists, and using the name 'John'. They are apparently responsible for guarding Western hostages in the stronghold of Raqqa, and nicknamed after members of the Beatles, with the two others dubbed Paul and Ringo.

May announced she is planning to bring in new laws including "anti-social behaviour orders" for extremists and banning orders for certain groups in an effort to stop radical preachers, such as Anjem Choudary, whose inflammatory rhetoric currently does not constitute a crime.

As with an Asbo, it is thought the new order - which could target extremists "behaviour and language" - could result in a criminal conviction carrying a jail term if breached.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/08/23/theresa-may-british-jihadists-_n_5702255.html?1408779712&utm_hp_ref=uk


Glad to see but not enough, as they need to bring the death penalty back for treason.

Withdrawing from the HRA and ECHR and setting up a British bill of rights that won't be exploitable by extremist preachers, terrorists and war criminals would be a start. Unfortunately this is just more hot air and bullshit from May - it took us 3 years of her Tory government to deport Qatada.

The Puzzler wrote:Withdrawing from the HRA and ECHR and setting up a British bill of rights that won't be exploitable by extremist preachers, terrorists and war criminals would be a start. Unfortunately this is just more hot air and bullshit from May - it took us 3 years of her Tory government to deport Qatada.

Whether we are in the EU or not all nations are signed up to the ECHR including Russia and I welcome the fact we are, to withdraw would be stupidity at its best

Didge wrote:

The Puzzler wrote:Withdrawing from the HRA and ECHR and setting up a British bill of rights that won't be exploitable by extremist preachers, terrorists and war criminals would be a start. Unfortunately this is just more hot air and bullshit from May - it took us 3 years of her Tory government to deport Qatada.

Whether we are in the EU or not all nations are signed up to the ECHR including Russia and I welcome the fact we are, to withdraw would be stupidity at its best

Putin doesn't take much notice of it though does he? Even France and Italy ignored the ECHR's judgements a few years ago and deported several hate preachers from their countries - it's just a pity we have a spineless 'Tory' government.

The Puzzler wrote:

Didge wrote:


Whether we are in the EU or not all nations are signed up to the ECHR including Russia and I welcome the fact we are, to withdraw would be stupidity at its best

Putin doesn't take much notice of it though does he? Even France and Italy ignored the ECHR's judgements a few years ago and deported several hate preachers from their countries - it's just a pity we have a spineless 'Tory' government.

Most countries do not, but by and ;large most follow its rulings which in all essence most of the laws are sound, only a few are silly, it though is not a reason to withdraw from such a binding group that really seeks to protect the rights of people, what is needed is reform

What you say above Puzzler just proves it isn't the ECHR that is the problem but our spineless governments as you say, we could do what France and Italy do.

^Didge, I'm no fan of the Death Penalty, it is a slippery road. However, if someone is known to be returning from Syria or Iraq, and fought for IS, they simply shouldn't be allowed to go free in this country. They should be jailed for life, or sent to Guantanamo Bay for interrogation by the US there. They are terrorists, Islamist terrorists at that. Frankly we should just get over there ASAP and make sure there are not many left to consider coming back here.

Eilzel wrote:What you say above Puzzler just proves it isn't the ECHR that is the problem but our spineless governments as you say, we could do what France and Italy do.

^Didge, I'm no fan of the Death Penalty, it is a slippery road. However, if someone is known to be returning from Syria or Iraq, and fought for IS, they simply shouldn't be allowed to go free in this country. They should be jailed for life, or sent to Guantanamo Bay for interrogation by the US there. They are terrorists, Islamist terrorists at that. Frankly we should just get over there ASAP and make sure there are not many left to consider coming back here.

Hi Eilzel

There is no slippery road with known terrorists is there fighting in Iraq and Syria, thus to me, they are inhuman as to what they do and no application of the Geneva convention should apply, they are nothing short of mass murders of which we tried and executed many Nazi war criminals and traitors, so why should the same not apply here?

Fair point Eilzel. It would be nice if we could set up our own Guantanamo, perhaps on Tristan de Cunha. As you say they are simply too dangerous to be free, and too dangerous to be put in the general prison system. The mass radicalisation and forced conversions in our jails is bad enough already.

Didge wrote:

Eilzel wrote:What you say above Puzzler just proves it isn't the ECHR that is the problem but our spineless governments as you say, we could do what France and Italy do.

^Didge, I'm no fan of the Death Penalty, it is a slippery road. However, if someone is known to be returning from Syria or Iraq, and fought for IS, they simply shouldn't be allowed to go free in this country. They should be jailed for life, or sent to Guantanamo Bay for interrogation by the US there. They are terrorists, Islamist terrorists at that. Frankly we should just get over there ASAP and make sure there are not many left to consider coming back here.

Hi Eilzel

There is no slippery road with known terrorists is there fighting in Iraq and Syria, thus to me, they are inhuman as to what they do and no application of the Geneva convention should apply, they are nothing short of mass murders of which we tried and executed many Nazi war criminals and traitors, so why should the same not apply here?

THIS too. We can't properly fight an enemy that doesn't acknowledge the rules of war with one hand tied behind our backs.

The Puzzler wrote:

Didge wrote:


Hi Eilzel

There is no slippery road with known terrorists is there fighting in Iraq and Syria, thus to me, they are inhuman as to what they do and no application of the Geneva convention should apply, they are nothing short of mass murders of which we tried and executed many Nazi war criminals and traitors, so why should the same not apply here?

THIS too. We can't properly fight an enemy that doesn't acknowledge the rules of war with one hand tied behind our backs.

I am agreed on that Puzzler and why to me, we are being too soft on those that commit terror.

I will wait for the legislation to be fleshed out.

But these look reactionary to satisfy public anger - and are generally pointless. Won't stop anything.

I don't think the passport or even death penalty for treason will work either. They are going there to fight and die there, if required. If they live, I don't think they're coming back.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:I will wait for the legislation to be fleshed out.

But these look reactionary to satisfy public anger - and are generally pointless. Won't stop anything.

I don't think the passport or even death penalty for treason will work either. They are going there to fight and die there, if required. If they live, I don't think they're coming back.

Better to do something than nothing though eh Zack. Like you I hope they are all blown or shot to pieces in Iraq. However, it is possible some may come back, especially when they realize how much of a shitty lot they find themselves in in Iraq compared with their comfortable life in Britain. And if even a small number they should be punished. Frankly I'd prefer the punishment to be as tough as it gets but I know that's a long shot.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:I will wait for the legislation to be fleshed out.

But these look reactionary to satisfy public anger - and are generally pointless. Won't stop anything.

I don't think the passport or even death penalty for treason will work either. They are going there to fight and die there, if required. If they live, I don't think they're coming back.

Nothing to do with reaction, it has everything to do with combating a growing problem which should have been started years ago.
Seriously, what do you expect nations to do, nothing?
Yes they are going to continue to fight but if you show force also, it means you show them you are not weak which at present is what is being presented.
Did you know Japan estimated that it would lose 20 million plus if invaded, what do you think made them surrender?

Eilzel wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:I will wait for the legislation to be fleshed out.

But these look reactionary to satisfy public anger - and are generally pointless. Won't stop anything.

I don't think the passport or even death penalty for treason will work either. They are going there to fight and die there, if required. If they live, I don't think they're coming back.

Better to do something than nothing though eh Zack. Like you I hope they are all blown or shot to pieces in Iraq. However, it is possible some may come back, especially when they realize how much of a shitty lot they find themselves in in Iraq compared with their comfortable life in Britain. And if even a small number they should be punished. Frankly I'd prefer the punishment to be as tough as it gets but I know that's a long shot.

I think setting up arbitrary laws in this country amounts to doing nothing.

Real justice means targeting those who have committed a crime. Those people are in Iraq and Syria right now.

I would put boots on the ground. At least special forces. Revoking citizenship is a start, as we can then legally 'bump' them out. But international laws means this will only work for dual citizens. And I'm not sure how easy it is to bump one of your citizens without due process.

This means setting up a court and finding people guilty in absentia. The penalty of which is surrender, capture or death in the process of capture. Many laws will have to be changed for this.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:I will wait for the legislation to be fleshed out.

But these look reactionary to satisfy public anger - and are generally pointless. Won't stop anything.

I don't think the passport or even death penalty for treason will work either. They are going there to fight and die there, if required. If they live, I don't think they're coming back.

Nothing to do with reaction, it has everything to do with combating a growing problem which should have been started years ago.
Seriously, what do you expect nations to do, nothing?
Yes they are going to continue to fight but if you show force also, it means you show them you are not weak which at present is what is being presented.
Did you know Japan estimated that it would lose 20 million plus if invaded, what do you think made them surrender?

Doing something means still doing within the law. See post above.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Nothing to do with reaction, it has everything to do with combating a growing problem which should have been started years ago.
Seriously, what do you expect nations to do, nothing?
Yes they are going to continue to fight but if you show force also, it means you show them you are not weak which at present is what is being presented.
Did you know Japan estimated that it would lose 20 million plus if invaded, what do you think made them surrender?

Doing something means still doing within the law. See post above.

Laws change do they not?
I am talking about targeting those who are fighting but those here indoctrinating them, you of all people know Choudrey is a stain on the Muslim community here is he not?
Agree with most of your other points mind, but still believe the treason law should be reinstated.

Didge wrote:

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Doing something means still doing within the law. See post above.

Laws change do they not?
I am talking about targeting those who are fighting but those here indoctrinating them, you of all people know Choudrey is a stain on the Muslim community here is he not?
Agree with most of your other points mind, but still believe the treason law should be reinstated.

I think Anjem Choudhary is a coward and modifies himself to keep himself on the right side of the law.

And most of his cohorts are already 'indoctrinated' before the meet Choudhary. Choudhary merely validates them, he doesn't create them. If he did, his followers would have grown many fold by now.

I also think while some of these so called jihadists may have come into contact with Choudhary in the past, they most likely avoided him in order to get to Syria. The last person I would contact is someone being watched by the security services.

Most of these people tend to go directly outside the war zone and make the relevant contact there to join a fighting force. Be that ISIS or some other group.

https://mobile.twitter.com/anjemchoudary/tweets

All within the law. No direct incitement.

Fuzzy Zack wrote:

Didge wrote:


Laws change do they not?
I am talking about targeting those who are fighting but those here indoctrinating them, you of all people know Choudrey is a stain on the Muslim community here is he not?
Agree with most of your other points mind, but still believe the treason law should be reinstated.

I think Anjem Choudhary is a coward and modifies himself to keep himself on the right side of the law.

And most of his cohorts are already 'indoctrinated' before the meet Choudhary. Choudhary merely validates them, he doesn't create them. If he did, his followers would have grown many fold by now.

I also think while some of these so called jihadists may have come into contact with Choudhary in the past, they most likely avoided him in order to get to Syria. The last person I would contact is someone being watched by the security services.

Most of these people tend to go directly outside the war zone and make the relevant contact there to join a fighting force. Be that ISIS or some other group.

He is clever not to break the law, but now this will change for him, I just do not understand why he lives here promoting what he does.
Again agree on your points

I've noticed admin at Twitter slowly removing all Isis users.

Is that a good idea?

Id rather know where the scum are and not sweep it under the carpet.

IS are influencing youths here so actually I do think its a good idea to remove them from twitter. Social media has been a powerful tool for IS, makes sense to remove it from them.

There should be all party support across the House for Theresa May to bring in laws to curb the activities of these nutters with the opposition pointing out where improvements can be made or where there may be flaws in the legislation but the end game is to get it right. These bampots are just pure evil and the sentences should be as severe as possible resulting in them being locked up for good with life meaning life.

I doubt re-introducing the death sentence for those found guilty would make any difference or would deter them from fighting for their ridiculous cause. I just hope that they die on the battlefield  no-named no-marks instead of the Martyrs they would become if put to death by a British court.  

We might derive some sort of satisfaction from knowing they ended up swinging on the end of a rope but locking them up for life in a high security prison for the rest of their miserable lives is probably the last thing they would want so let’s make sure that’s what they get.

How about EVERY rerturning jihadist that is caught has his/her picture and personal details including their whereabouts, regularly publicised on the net and on TV??

victorisnotamused wrote:How about EVERY rerturning jihadist that is caught has his/her picture and personal details including their whereabouts, regularly publicised on the net and on TV??

that would have the opposite effect....
every fool wishing to be a famous Martyr would be going off to Join


I think it is a case of not letting them return in most cases.... unless they are psychologically evaluated to be 'converted' to secularism and thus can become a spokesperson to use against the radicalization of youth in our own countries.

Here We are seeing that, one of the Aussie Jihadists that got named has been publicly disowned not only by his community (which he then tried death threats against some of the members speaking out) but by his own family too.

We should cut a deal with New Zealand to have them all dumped on the Antipodes Islands, leave them with supplies to get on with it. Having no women there, they would have to live in a harsh climate, and nothing to look forward to but their own survival, no contact with the outside world. It is a fitting way to not burden each nation with the problem, they can then live out their ideology away from the rest of us, which would also instill fear onto those wishing to join that if captured, this will be their fate.

Didge wrote:We should cut a deal with New Zealand to have them all dumped on the  Antipodes Islands, leave them with supplies to get on with it. Having no women there, they would have to live in a harsh climate, and nothing to look forward to but their own survival, no contact with the outside world. It is a fitting way to not burden each nation with the problem, they can then live out their ideology away from the rest of us, which would also instill fear onto those wishing to join that if captured, this will be their fate.

there are female members of ISIS though

I say let each nation deal with their returns themselves
... we can always keep them with ...the pigs

There are female members which is true, but they can go to a Muslim country of their choice, the reality here is to deal with the fighters, which is in the main, men. Either we take them out or as seen dump them all to live out their lives in isolation. The death penalty has never been a good deterrent where it is a quick method and how some wish for death anyway, even more so with here those that wish martyrdom, which you are denying them. They are left with a bleak existence and one that will be harsh for the rest of their lives and this is the point, they have nothing to fear. The west  is seen by them as soft, so even if they are captured, they think they will only spend a set amount of time in prison and taking away their citizenship is just pushing the problem elsewhere onto others. Prisons are also a breeding ground for radicalization, where we have an acute problem here at present, where Muslims on lesser sentences come out radicalized Provide those captured with a fitting punishment for their crimes, one that gives them something to think about. If this then makes them believe it is better to die fighting so be it, problem solved again.

Either way you have now created a climate of fear back onto them, where at present they have nothing to fear from the west.


Night Veya

Well we could go even more extreme if we want to create fear

We use no Bullets Just tranquillisers.....
Stop testing on animals and use ISIS members instead
and web cast the videos

Is there any evidence anybody's joined up with ISIS and come back to the UK?

Seems like the same old song and dance routine to me. Meanwhile, we (the West) need to consider that we're giving these assholes exactly what they want. Living in fear, beating the drums of war ... it takes me back to the Bush years, honestly. Every stupid, ill-considered, predictable move we make plays right into the hands of terrorists.

why do we need to fear????
I think we need to just make a point
Islam's seem to have forgotten the west controls 4 continents Because we are the MOST BRUTAL humans out. WE CHOOSE to limit ourselves now and even them we can slaughter them with ease...

Really we just need to attack ISIS with out killing all the Civilians... THAT is the real issue, that the 'collateral damage' is not taken anywhere near as seriously as it should be... we should not find it acceptable to kill good men with bad, we make a hue and cry about a couple of individual journalist but think the locals should just accept that 'collateral damage' may mean their children are blown to pieces... The problem is the Hypocrisy, we need to treat people equally and place equal value on Life, Every Civilian that was killed by USA forces is JUST as Awful as the deaths of James and Steven. The problem is they see Us make the Hue and Cry About 2 of our own but not give a shit about entire wedding parties being blown up by Accident because of some trigger/bomber happy Soldier...

The problem is Any tactic which has you are relying on being the 'good guy' to win hearts and minds means YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO BE GOOD and the West particularly our leaders Are Greedy Selfish liars happy to enslave or cause deaths for a dollar.

Good point, Veya. I think we still have a long way to go in convincing the people who run our countries to view people equally and to not view some innocent people's deaths as worse than others ...

As far as ISIS goes, I see two ends for the organization -- either it will die out from the efforts currently being brought against it, or it will elevate itself to nation-state status and get wiped out in a conventional war. There's hardly a realistic path to success for this bunch, outside of quickly overwhelming a relatively powerful state -- I'm thinking the most likely target would be Pakistan -- and thus leapfrogging a lot of steps to become a nuclear power -- which would obviously level the playing field quite a bit for them.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn of an ISIS plan to try to take power in Pakistan, nor of a Western-nations plan to make sure that doesn't happen.

And saying this, I feel I should also point out that all the BNP skinheads in Britain aren't going to be able to make a difference by oppressing Pakistani-Britons in the UK

Ben_Reilly wrote:Is there any evidence anybody's joined up with ISIS and come back to the UK?

Seems like the same old song and dance routine to me. Meanwhile, we (the West) need to consider that we're giving these assholes exactly what they want. Living in fear, beating the drums of war ... it takes me back to the Bush years, honestly. Every stupid, ill-considered, predictable move we make plays right into the hands of terrorists.

Your first point Ben, redundant, plenty went to fight in other areas and have returned.

I fact it is our soft approach that plays into the hands of Isis, because we comply with rules and try to minimize casualties, it really does not matter if none were killed, the fact they use a view that the west is on some crusade to wipe out Islam, based on previous conflicts they will continue to use a media war against the west. The fact that we took a soft approach after defeating the Taliban, where the job was not complete and where we should have gone into Pakistan to finish the job, proves to the extremists, that the west restricts itself to what it will do, giving them the advantage, being as they can thus retreat to areas, the west is then to apprehensive to commit to finishing a job, by not upsetting another government who is supposed to be an ally of the west when in fact much extremist support and funding has come from this nation. This is why the terrorist are not concerned about being defeated conventionally, they can always regroup and build again, because the west never completes the job. It is the soft approach from the west that the extremists have used to their advantage. The reality is we are not bold enough and too afraid to upset the apple cart, when the west should use its global strength to force through completing a job.

Look at Putin, cannot stand him and think he is nothing short of a dictator, but he is not afraid to push boundaries, to achieve his objective and what does the west do, lots of protesting and little action, again showing we are weak. If this had been the situation in WW2 with extremists, there would be no squeamish attitude and we would have gone in hard and utterly fucking around to get the job done. When we convict a soldier who sees many of his men die from cowardly attacks and shoots a wounded Taliban terrorist dead, you know there is something fucked up with how we are giving too much respect to inhumane murderers ad making a mockery of what our soldiers endure in these conflicts. That is why our tactics are all wrong, we are utterly too soft in dealing with the extremists.

By the way it will be the hub of the Islamic world they will go for, control of Mecca, they then basically control the most religious place for Muslims on earth, which would spell a lot of trouble.

And in case any of you (I'm not saying who bit you know who you are, hee HA HA) are still perpetuating the bullshit that ISIS is connected to Al Qeada:

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/al-qaeda-chief-ayman-al-zawahiri-new-branch-in-india-subcontinent/1/380769.html

veya_victaous wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:How about EVERY rerturning jihadist that is caught has his/her picture and personal details including their whereabouts, regularly publicised on the net and on TV??

that would have the opposite effect....
every fool wishing to be a famous Martyr would be going off to Join


I think it is a case of not letting them return in most cases....  unless they are psychologically evaluated to be 'converted' to secularism and thus can become a spokesperson to use against the radicalization of youth in our own countries.

Here We are seeing that, one of the Aussie Jihadists that got named has been publicly disowned not only by his community (which he then tried death threats against some of the members speaking out) but by his own family too.

Well Veya...if we knew what they looked like and knew where they were, it would be easier to avoid them, and you never know perhaps there would be someone who would like to talk to them and "re-educate" them

victorisnotamused wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:How about EVERY rerturning jihadist that is caught has his/her picture and personal details including their whereabouts, regularly publicised on the net and on TV??

that would have the opposite effect....
every fool wishing to be a famous Martyr would be going off to Join


I think it is a case of not letting them return in most cases....  unless they are psychologically evaluated to be 'converted' to secularism and thus can become a spokesperson to use against the radicalization of youth in our own countries.

Here We are seeing that, one of the Aussie Jihadists that got named has been publicly disowned not only by his community (which he then tried death threats against some of the members speaking out) but by his own family too.

Well Veya...if we knew what they looked like and knew where they were, it would be easier to avoid them, and you never know perhaps there would be someone who would like to talk to them and "re-educate" them

Well ISIS are not as considerate as the British to issue all their Terrorists with red coats and stocks

the Question is silly Victor "what do they look like"???? what does a British Paedophile look like? The exact same as EVERYONE ELSE.

Here's what an ISIS sympathizer looks like:

veya_victaous wrote:

victorisnotamused wrote:

Well Veya...if we knew what they looked like and knew where they were, it would be easier to avoid them, and you never know perhaps there would be someone who would like to talk to them and "re-educate" them

Well ISIS are not as considerate as the British to issue all their Terrorists with red coats and stocks

the Question is silly Victor "what do they look like"????  what does a British Paedophile look like?  The exact same as EVERYONE ELSE.

What part of the known returning ones....not "pick one at random" did you fail to get?

Victor why would you let them return unless you where 100% sure they had changed sides and were willing to submit to monitoring by authorities

The Opinion Here is they where welcomed into paradise(a.k.a Australia) once IF they they think they can get into a better one by blowing themselves up or some shit FUCK'EM they anit coming back

veya_victaous wrote:Victor why would you let them return unless you where 100% sure they had changed sides and were willing to submit to monitoring by authorities

The Opinion Here is they where welcomed into paradise(a.k.a Australia) once IF they they think they can get into a better one by blowing themselves up or some shit FUCK'EM    they anit coming back

because those BORN here i.e bona fide british citizens CANNOT, by international law be rendered "stateless...so we gotta have em back

victorisnotamused wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:Victor why would you let them return unless you where 100% sure they had changed sides and were willing to submit to monitoring by authorities

The Opinion Here is they where welcomed into paradise(a.k.a Australia) once IF they they think they can get into a better one by blowing themselves up or some shit FUCK'EM    they anit coming back

because those BORN here i.e bona fide british citizens CANNOT, by international law be rendered "stateless...so we gotta have em back

do you have an ocean

I believe their Passports Disappeared problem solved