Migrants must pay more to use NHS, say ministers

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Patients from outside the EU are to be charged 150% of the cost of treatment in the NHS in a fresh crackdown on so-called "health tourism".
The move is designed to incentivise NHS Trusts in England to recover the cost of operations from migrants.
The UK seeks to reclaim 100% of the cost of treating EU and non-EU nationals where charges are applicable.
But only a fraction of the £460m in chargeable procedures performed every year is currently recovered.
Most migrants and foreign visitors can currently get free NHS care immediately or soon after arrival in the UK but they are expected to repay the cost of most procedures afterwards.
The charges are based on the standard tariff for a range of procedures, ranging from about £1,860 for cataract surgery to about £8,570 for a hip replacement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28291276

by Raggamuffin Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:07 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Do you actually understand that money doesn't grow on trees?

Yes Ragga,I do.

I also understand that film stars and men kicking a round ball around a pitch gets millions upon millions of pounds to do virtually nothing while there are people in society starving,homeless,vulnerable and in need.

Society needs to be completely demolished and started again.

That won't happen of course and idealistic I may be but I don't think the ethos of the NHS should be altered.

It's nothing to do with footballers and film stars, it's to do with a society paying for a service which they can all then use. Obviously, not everyone in the UK pays towards it, but we can't afford to let everyone come here and use it as well.

by Tommy Monk Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:10 pm

"....If people are coming here for for the sole purpose of having free treatment they obviously can't afford it in their own country..."
And we shouldn't have to pay for them to have it here.

by Fluffyx Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:11 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:"....If people are coming here for for the sole purpose of having free treatment they obviously can't afford it in their own country..."
And we shouldn't have to pay for them to have it here.

Well then,how are they going to get the treatment they need?

by Cobra Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:11 am

Having read through this post my conclusion is to DEFFO STOP THEM LANDING HERE.

by Guest Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:21 am

FluffyBunny wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:"....If people are coming here for for the sole purpose of having free treatment they obviously can't afford it in their own country..."
And we shouldn't have to pay for them to have it here.

Well then,how are they going to get the treatment they need?

Its not our responsibility as cruel as that may sound , if everyone from around the world came here just for free treatment we would be bankrupt which we nearly are anyway in opinion.

Some of our own are waiting for operations so why should foreigners waltz in and get special treatment .

by Guest Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:23 am

Tommy Monk wrote:"....If people are coming here for for the sole purpose of having free treatment they obviously can't afford it in their own country..."
And we shouldn't have to pay for them to have it here.

agree with you

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:24 am

LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:"....If people are coming here for for the sole purpose of having free treatment they obviously can't afford it in their own country..."
And we shouldn't have to pay for them to have it here.

Well then,how are they going to get the treatment they need?
Its not our responsibility as cruel as that may sound , if everyone from around the world came here just for free treatment we would be bankrupt which we nearly are anyway in opinion.

Some of our own are waiting for operations so why should foreigners waltz in and get special treatment .

It does sound cruel, LMP. I understand these things cost money. But it really does sound as cruel as someone who has plenty to eat denying a starving person a sandwich because it might put a dent in their next meal. We have to figure out how to afford health care for everyone, and think of ourselves not as separate countries but as one global human community.

If you can see the world that way, you can't help but concluding that we have to figure out how to alleviate suffering wherever we find it.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:43 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:
Its not our responsibility as cruel as that may sound , if everyone from around the world came here just for free treatment we would be bankrupt which we nearly are anyway in opinion.

Some of our own are waiting for operations so why should foreigners waltz in and get special treatment .

It does sound cruel, LMP. I understand these things cost money. But it really does sound as cruel as someone who has plenty to eat denying a starving person a sandwich because it might put a dent in their next meal. We have to figure out how to afford health care for everyone, and think of ourselves not as separate countries but as one global human community.

If you can see the world that way, you can't help but concluding that we have to figure out how to alleviate suffering wherever we find it.

I don't think you do understand. It's like a group of people paying into a pot and taking from the pot as and when they need help. If the same number of people pay into the pot but then tell everyone else that they can take from the pot too, there would be nothing left.

We have issues here with people not being able to get medical treatment they need. We have people on waiting lists for months, even years. We have people dying because they couldn't get treatment quickly enough. It's up to other countries to sort out their own health issues - we can't do it for everyone.

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:46 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
LITTLE MISS PERFECT wrote:
Its not our responsibility as cruel as that may sound , if everyone from around the world came here just for free treatment we would be bankrupt which we nearly are anyway in opinion.

Some of our own are waiting for operations so why should foreigners waltz in and get special treatment .

It does sound cruel, LMP. I understand these things cost money. But it really does sound as cruel as someone who has plenty to eat denying a starving person a sandwich because it might put a dent in their next meal. We have to figure out how to afford health care for everyone, and think of ourselves not as separate countries but as one global human community.

If you can see the world that way, you can't help but concluding that we have to figure out how to alleviate suffering wherever we find it.

I don't think you do understand. It's like a group of people paying into a pot and taking from the pot as and when they need help. If the same number of people pay into the pot but then tell everyone else that they can take from the pot too, there would be nothing left.

We have issues here with people not being able to get medical treatment they need. We have people on waiting lists for months, even years. We have people dying because they couldn't get treatment quickly enough. It's up to other countries to sort out their own health issues - we can't do it for everyone.

I think I do understand. I come from the richest country on earth and we have seen fit to send seriously ill people literally into the streets rather than treat them, over money issues.

Human life is worth more than money. Sorry, nobody is going to convince me otherwise!

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:52 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't think you do understand. It's like a group of people paying into a pot and taking from the pot as and when they need help. If the same number of people pay into the pot but then tell everyone else that they can take from the pot too, there would be nothing left.

We have issues here with people not being able to get medical treatment they need. We have people on waiting lists for months, even years. We have people dying because they couldn't get treatment quickly enough. It's up to other countries to sort out their own health issues - we can't do it for everyone.

I think I do understand. I come from the richest country on earth and we have seen fit to send seriously ill people literally into the streets rather than treat them, over money issues.

Human life is worth more than money. Sorry, nobody is going to convince me otherwise!

Oh well, when the money runs out and the citizens of the UK are unable to get any treatment, I'll come and ask you for some money shall I?

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:54 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

I don't think you do understand. It's like a group of people paying into a pot and taking from the pot as and when they need help. If the same number of people pay into the pot but then tell everyone else that they can take from the pot too, there would be nothing left.

We have issues here with people not being able to get medical treatment they need. We have people on waiting lists for months, even years. We have people dying because they couldn't get treatment quickly enough. It's up to other countries to sort out their own health issues - we can't do it for everyone.

I think I do understand. I come from the richest country on earth and we have seen fit to send seriously ill people literally into the streets rather than treat them, over money issues.

Human life is worth more than money. Sorry, nobody is going to convince me otherwise!

Oh well, when the money runs out and the citizens of the UK are unable to get any treatment, I'll come and ask you for some money shall I?

I'll tell you the same thing I tell the numb-nuts running the U.S. government -- we could afford to take care of people if we didn't have these big killing-machine militaries ... Smile

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:54 am

And I would hope we would help.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:01 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Oh well, when the money runs out and the citizens of the UK are unable to get any treatment, I'll come and ask you for some money shall I?

I'll tell you the same thing I tell the numb-nuts running the U.S. government -- we could afford to take care of people if we didn't have these big killing-machine militaries ...

These people who say money isn't important - try saying that when you go to the supermarket and ask for everything to be free. Try going to an estate agent and say you want a house, but as money isn't important, you want it for free.

Think of all the new drugs being developed to treat people. Do you think that costs nothing? Do you think that people who work for pharma companies are able to produce these drugs for free? Do you think they don't need to be paid so they can eat. What about surgeons? I'm sure they don't need to eat so they'll work for free, yes?

Get real.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:03 am

So what are these people who get free treatment contributing exactly? Healthy people have to pay tax so at least they can get medical help when they need it. Who will pay for it all if they don't?

There really do seem to be people around who think they can just go and pluck money from a tree.

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:08 am

I see what you're saying, Raggs, but at the same time, imagine what it would be like if grocers decided to raise prices 500 percent on everything. I guess that's where I'm coming from. You might be looking at the deficit and worrying, and I understand, but Britain has endured and I think it will continue to do so without having to leave sick people to die.

I'm coming it at from a U.S. perspective obviously, but here we pay $400 billion for a jet fighter program that doesn't even work ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/15/f35-fighter-jets-flights-approved-engine-failure ). I can imagine that Britain pays proportionately for its own killing machines. Why can't that money be used to save lives rather than to end them? All I'm saying.

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:22 am

Ben_Reilly wrote:I see what you're saying, Raggs, but at the same time, imagine what it would be like if grocers decided to raise prices 500 percent on everything. I guess that's where I'm coming from. You might be looking at the deficit and worrying, and I understand, but Britain has endured and I think it will continue to do so without having to leave sick people to die.

I'm coming it at from a U.S. perspective obviously, but here we pay $400 billion for a jet fighter program that doesn't even work ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/15/f35-fighter-jets-flights-approved-engine-failure ). I can imagine that Britain pays proportionately for its own killing machines. Why can't that money be used to save lives rather than to end them? All I'm saying.

Well let's just get rid of the armed forces altogether, and spend the money on the NHS so that everyone in the whole world can come here and get free treatment. It won't matter at all if we have no defence. Whilst we're at it, let's get rid of education or make people pay for it. After all, it's only money so it's not important. They might not be able to eat or anything, but hey ...

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:26 am

People in this country have worked hard to make it civilised. The NHS is one of those achievements which most people have paid for to make it happen. Have they done that so that anyone can come here and get treatment at the expense of the people who it was supposed to help? Is that why we have British people in hospitals waiting around for hours and dying before they can get help?

by Ben Reilly Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:27 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Ben_Reilly wrote:I see what you're saying, Raggs, but at the same time, imagine what it would be like if grocers decided to raise prices 500 percent on everything. I guess that's where I'm coming from. You might be looking at the deficit and worrying, and I understand, but Britain has endured and I think it will continue to do so without having to leave sick people to die.

I'm coming it at from a U.S. perspective obviously, but here we pay $400 billion for a jet fighter program that doesn't even work ( http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/15/f35-fighter-jets-flights-approved-engine-failure ). I can imagine that Britain pays proportionately for its own killing machines. Why can't that money be used to save lives rather than to end them? All I'm saying.

Well let's just get rid of the armed forces altogether, and spend the money on the NHS so that everyone in the whole world can come here and get free treatment. It won't matter at all if we have no defence. Whilst we're at it, let's get rid of education or make people pay for it. After all, it's only money so it's not important. They might not be able to eat or anything, but hey ...

OK, really how much are foreigners costing the NHS? Are they truly bankrupting the UK, or is it a bunch of propaganda?

Good night, it's 2:30 in the morning here ...

by Raggamuffin Wed Jul 16, 2014 12:03 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

Well let's just get rid of the armed forces altogether, and spend the money on the NHS so that everyone in the whole world can come here and get free treatment. It won't matter at all if we have no defence. Whilst we're at it, let's get rid of education or make people pay for it. After all, it's only money so it's not important. They might not be able to eat or anything, but hey ...

OK, really how much are foreigners costing the NHS? Are they truly bankrupting the UK, or is it a bunch of propaganda?

Good night, it's 2:30 in the morning here ...

The point is that the tax payers here pay for their potential treatment upfront in the form of taxes, so the only difference is that the non-residents are being asked to pay for it afterwards instead. The NHS isn't really free, as others have pointed out.

by Tommy Monk Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:48 pm

FluffyBunny wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:"....If people are coming here for for the sole purpose of having free treatment they obviously can't afford it in their own country..."
And we shouldn't have to pay for them to have it here.
Well then,how are they going to get the treatment they need?

We are not the worlds health service andit is Not up to us to pay for others medical wants or needs.

We struggle to look after our own people properly, long waiting times and treatments/drugs denied because of costs.

And we could do a lot more for our own if we didn't lose millions through foreigners coming over and abusing our system with no intention of ever paying.

by Tommy Monk Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:55 pm

Ben_Reilly wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Oh well, when the money runs out and the citizens of the UK are unable to get any treatment, I'll come and ask you for some money shall I?
I'll tell you the same thing I tell the numb-nuts running the U.S. government -- we could afford to take care of people if we didn't have these big killing-machine militaries ...

We have a military and a national health service, all paid for by us tax payers.

Maybe other countries which don't have health care are the ones who need to change things.....

It is Not our responsibility to treat foreigners here for free.

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