Migrants must pay more to use NHS, say ministers

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:51 pm

Patients from outside the EU are to be charged 150% of the cost of treatment in the NHS in a fresh crackdown on so-called "health tourism".
The move is designed to incentivise NHS Trusts in England to recover the cost of operations from migrants.
The UK seeks to reclaim 100% of the cost of treating EU and non-EU nationals where charges are applicable.
But only a fraction of the £460m in chargeable procedures performed every year is currently recovered.
Most migrants and foreign visitors can currently get free NHS care immediately or soon after arrival in the UK but they are expected to repay the cost of most procedures afterwards.
The charges are based on the standard tariff for a range of procedures, ranging from about £1,860 for cataract surgery to about £8,570 for a hip replacement.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28291276

by Tommy Monk Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:02 pm

The policy of collecting money has been in place for years but is rarely enforced.

This will not stop people arriving, having treatment and then disappearing back home again without any intention of paying a penny.

Refusal of treatment is the only way of ensuring the system is not abused.

Or recover any money directly from home govts and then let them chase the money.

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:59 pm

Of course it isn't enforced, and never will be.

I've lost count of how many times people on these forums have brought up "evidence" in black and white - rules, laws etc. only for BigAndy9 to come along and state "yes, on paper"...

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:53 pm

Tommy Monk wrote:The policy of collecting money has been in place for years but is rarely enforced.

This will not stop people arriving, having treatment and then disappearing back home again without any intention of paying a penny.

Refusal of treatment is the only way of ensuring the system is not abused.

Or recover any money directly from home govts and then let them chase the money.

Just how do the UK government recover the money for treatment though?, I doubt a foreigners own government back home would meet the costs.

by Cobra Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:10 pm

Refuse treatment, only way.

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:16 pm

Cobra wrote:Refuse treatment, only way.

How about refusing entry?

That's the real problem.

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:21 pm

Well, in that case all those countries in the EU that treat British people on their EHIC card had better leave them to die and make them walk home with broken bones etc.

by eddie Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:34 pm

Cobra wrote:Refuse treatment, only way.

So,you would refuse treatment to a very sick child or a pregnant lady or a dying old man?

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:36 pm

eddie wrote:
Cobra wrote:Refuse treatment, only way.

So,you would refuse treatment to a very sick child or a pregnant lady or a dying old man?

Not for an accident or emergency no
But for health tourists yes

by SEXY MAMA Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:36 pm

Cobra wrote:Refuse treatment, only way.

Aren't you a ray of sunshine dear

by eddie Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:52 pm

Nems wrote:
eddie wrote:

So,you would refuse treatment to a very sick child or a pregnant lady or a dying old man?

Not for an accident or emergency no
But for health tourists yes

Ok....but what if a family were here for a long stay to visit relatives and the child develops cancer and they can't afford the treatment back home?

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:55 pm

eddie wrote:
Nems wrote:

Not for an accident or emergency no
But for health tourists yes

Ok....but what if a family were here for a long stay to visit relatives and the child develops cancer and they can't afford the treatment back home?

What would said family do if in America?

Oh yes pay insurance, I always insure us for all medical stuff etc why cant they do that

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:00 pm

As i've said - things need to be stopped/prevented/paid for at the point of entry - absolutely no point asking afterwards - "me no speak inglish"

You might think i'm taking the piddle or being racist - but i've heard that first bloody hand - the reply "when is your husband visiting - how long has he lived here?"

"15 years - he no speak inglish"

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:03 pm

Yea, like the British who live abroad, and there are more of us who live abroad than their are those immigrants who come here, and after 20 years shout in English and expect to be understood.

by eddie Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:16 pm

I guess it will stop the pisstakers who come just for the free treatment etc

But for accidents and life-saving ops then I am still for free treatment for everyone.

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:28 pm

eddie wrote:I guess it will stop the pisstakers who come just for the free treatment etc

But for accidents and life-saving ops then I am still for free treatment for everyone.

That's the problem, those that come here just for the NHS treatment

by eddie Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:30 pm

Nems wrote:
eddie wrote:I guess it will stop the pisstakers who come just for the free treatment etc

But for accidents and life-saving ops then I am still for free treatment for everyone.

That's the problem, those that come here just for the NHS treatment

And the child benefit!

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:45 pm

eddie wrote:
Nems wrote:

That's the problem, those that come here just for the NHS treatment

And the child benefit!

That's another joke isn't it?

by eddie Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:48 pm

Nems wrote:
eddie wrote:

And the child benefit!

That's another joke isn't it?

I don't think you could find one person that thinks that's right!! It's an absolute joke!

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:50 pm

eddie wrote:
Nems wrote:

That's another joke isn't it?

I don't think you could find one person that thinks that's right!! It's an absolute joke!

I tell you, come the glorious day!

by Tommy Monk Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:00 pm

Joy Division wrote:
Tommy Monk wrote:The policy of collecting money has been in place for years but is rarely enforced.
This will not stop people arriving, having treatment and then disappearing back home again without any intention of paying a penny.
Refusal of treatment is the only way of ensuring the system is not abused.
Or recover any money directly from home govts and then let them chase the money.
Just how do the UK government recover the money for treatment though?, I doubt a foreigners own government back home would meet the costs.

Well that's the whole point, our NHS system is wide open to use and abuse by too readily giving treatment to others in the first place with the impossible task of trying to get the payment from individuals afterwards.

What options are there other than refusing treatment except for some of the most urget A&E care without some form of payment guarantees be it insurance or cash etc?

You do realise that there are people from all over the world who try to get here by holiday or other visiting status with the sole purpose of just using our health service for free don't you...?

This is because the system allows it...... and who can blame them for trying!?

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:10 pm

Weird really, my Dad had to use his EHIC card on holiday, got free treatment, I suppose according to Tommy, they should have turned him away. Really glad the system works and people who hold the view's Tommy does don't hold sway.

by eddie Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:17 pm

Sassy wrote:Weird really, my Dad had to use his EHIC card on holiday, got free treatment, I suppose according to Tommy, they should have turned him away. Really glad the system works and people who hold the view's Tommy does don't hold sway.

I used my EHIC card in Bulgaria when I broke and dislocated my finger and had to have an operation (beautiful hospital!)

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:19 pm

eddie wrote:
Sassy wrote:Weird really, my Dad had to use his EHIC card on holiday, got free treatment, I suppose according to Tommy, they should have turned him away. Really glad the system works and people who hold the view's Tommy does don't hold sway.

I used my EHIC card in Bulgaria when I broke and dislocated my finger and had to have an operation (beautiful hospital!)

Remember that, we'd be in a right state without that arrangement.

by eddie Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:30 pm

Sassy wrote:
eddie wrote:
Sassy wrote:Weird really, my Dad had to use his EHIC card on holiday, got free treatment, I suppose according to Tommy, they should have turned him away. Really glad the system works and people who hold the view's Tommy does don't hold sway.

I used my EHIC card in Bulgaria when I broke and dislocated my finger and had to have an operation (beautiful hospital!)

Remember that, we'd be in a right state without that arrangement.

Do,you?
Gosh that was about four years ago? Maybe five? Must've been on sky then or was it ado?

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:34 pm

Think it was ADO.

by veya_victaous Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:38 pm

I was going to say. Doesn't UK have reciprocal agreements with most, if not all, of the nations that stay in the UK long enough to need the NHS?

I know we do. it's like the rescue at sea thing (something Australia ends up losing out on often as we have huge oceanic territories) yeah someone always ends up taking up a greater burden of cost... but at the same time if circumstances were reversed everyone would sincerely hope that someone is there to help.

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:40 pm

We do Veya, that is why the 'discussion' is so incredibly stupid, biased and uninformed. And it's DC playing to the gallery to get the extreme RW votes next year.

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:41 pm

Sassy wrote:Well, in that case all those countries in the EU that treat British people on their EHIC card had better leave them to die and make them walk home with broken bones etc.

Considering the EU is kept afloat by British taxes if say we can have any amount of treatment and still be quids in

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:43 pm

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Migrants must pay more to use NHS, say ministers Celebration_On_The_Beach

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by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:44 pm

Surely if you're planning to spend any amount of time in a foreign country, you'll take out appropriate travel insurance to cover you. It's absolutely crucial that you do.

by Guest Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:46 pm

Travel rules state that if you are going to an EU country you have to have an EHIC card and insurance companies insist on it as it limits their liability.

by Irn Bru Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:58 am

It would probably cost as much to collect the money as it would save and anyway no British doctor or medical professional will ever turn away anyone needing medical assistance and I'm glad about that.

by Guest Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:11 am

Me too! I wouldn't trust a doctor who would turn anyone away!

by Tommy Monk Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:10 am

Sassy, if you read my earlier post I clearly state that payment by some insurance cover should be requied.

This should be a basic requirement of any type of entry and stay here.

We all get insurance cover when we go abroad or face the charges.

What is wrong with applying the same here to others...???

by Ben Reilly Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:03 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Sassy, if you read my earlier post I clearly state that payment by some insurance cover should be requied.

This should be a basic requirement of any type of entry and stay here.

We all get insurance cover when we go abroad or face the charges.

What is wrong with applying the same here to others...???

Just the basic morality that you don't bankrupt people because they're cheeky enough to try not to die ...

by Raggamuffin Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:56 am

What's the point of charging more if they don't pay anyway? They should have to pay upfront for those procedures rather than afterwards.

by eddie Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:02 am

Sassy wrote:Me too! I wouldn't trust a doctor who would turn anyone away!

No I wouldn't either. I think the main problem though is those that come here just to get free treatment and just use our free healthcare.
Thee are a lot of piss takers.

by Fluffyx Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:04 am

Anyone who is ill gets medical treatment in this country whether they can pay or not Thank God.

If people are at death's door I couldn't give a flying fig if they are a migrant.Putting a price on people's lives is a dangerous mentality.

Ben used the right word,morality.The RW are seemingly bereft.

by Raggamuffin Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:05 am

The worst thing is that this has been going on for years apparently, and nobody bothers to chase up the debts.

by Raggamuffin Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:07 am

FluffyBunny wrote:Anyone who is ill gets medical treatment in this country whether they can pay or not Thank God.

If people are at death's door I couldn't give a flying fig if they are a migrant.Putting a price on people's lives is a dangerous mentality.

Ben used the right word,morality.The RW are seemingly bereft.

What does it have to do with the "RW"? It's common sense. The NHS is already struggling financially so why should people be able to come here and have treatment for free? I can't believe that they can have a hip replacement or cataract operation and not have to pay for it.

by Fluffyx Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:07 am

Good.

by Fluffyx Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:08 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:Anyone who is ill gets medical treatment in this country whether they can pay or not Thank God.

If people are at death's door I couldn't give a flying fig if they are a migrant.Putting a price on people's lives is a dangerous mentality.

Ben used the right word,morality.The RW are seemingly bereft.

What does it have to do with the "RW"? It's common sense. The NHS is already struggling financially so why should people be able to come here and have treatment for free? I can't believe that they can have a hip replacement or cataract operation and not have to pay for it.

They shouldn't have to pay for it.Its the NHS and its free for all.
That's the point.

by Raggamuffin Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:13 am

FluffyBunny wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

What does it have to do with the "RW"? It's common sense. The NHS is already struggling financially so why should people be able to come here and have treatment for free? I can't believe that they can have a hip replacement or cataract operation and not have to pay for it.

They shouldn't have to pay for it.Its the NHS and its free for all.
That's the point.

It's not supposed to be free for the whole world. You might feel differently if you had to pay tax or if you were told there was no money to treat you for something.

Oh, and prescriptions aren't free - for some people anyway.

by Fluffyx Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:17 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:

They shouldn't have to pay for it.Its the NHS and its free for all.
That's the point.

It's not supposed to be free for the whole world. You might feel differently if you had to pay tax or if you were told there was no money to treat you for something.

Oh, and prescriptions aren't free - for some people anyway.

Well,they are in Wales and they should be for all imo.What about elderly people getting by on a pension,how do they afford their prescriptions in England??

And we have film stars paid twelve million a movie. It's a farce.

by Raggamuffin Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:25 am

FluffyBunny wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:

It's not supposed to be free for the whole world. You might feel differently if you had to pay tax or if you were told there was no money to treat you for something.

Oh, and prescriptions aren't free - for some people anyway.

Well,they are in Wales and they should be for all imo.What about elderly people getting by on a pension,how do they afford their prescriptions in England??

And we have film stars paid twelve million a movie. It's a farce.

Well I have to pay for prescriptions, so don't tell me that the NHS is free. Mind you, nobody else in the queue at Boots ever seems to pay. No wonder the charges keep going up so much.

Someone has to pay for all these drugs you know - ie, the tax payers. Do you think the money grows on trees?

by Guest Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:28 am

Tommy Monk wrote:Sassy, if you read my earlier post I clearly state that payment by some insurance cover should be requied.

This should be a basic requirement of any type of entry and stay here.

We all get insurance cover when we go abroad or face the charges.

What is wrong with applying the same here to others...???

That's exactly what I said. If you go to America and need hospital treatment you pay for it.I know that so if I was going there I would make sure I had all the insurance. I don't see why visitors into this country should not have medical insurance.
The NHS provides free treatment for UK citizens not the world. It has been predicted that the NHS is going to collapse. I wont accept old people on trolleys in corridors to pay for health tourism, no way. We cant afford it.

by eddie Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:37 am

FluffyBunny wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
FluffyBunny wrote:Anyone who is ill gets medical treatment in this country whether they can pay or not Thank God.

If people are at death's door I couldn't give a flying fig if they are a migrant.Putting a price on people's lives is a dangerous mentality.

Ben used the right word,morality.The RW are seemingly bereft.

What does it have to do with the "RW"? It's common sense. The NHS is already struggling financially so why should people be able to come here and have treatment for free? I can't believe that they can have a hip replacement or cataract operation and not have to pay for it.

They shouldn't have to pay for it.Its the NHS and its free for all.
That's the point.

Fluffy you,live in a world that's, well, fluffy!
The NHS isn't free technically as people's taxes pay for it.

Now, if it were just a free-for-all and people just abused the system and the NHS ran itself into the ground....and you,were told, "sorry Fluffy, but you can't have those drugs to save your life (hope this never happens to you!) because we just spent our last thousands on giving that person who doesn't live in this country a new hip."

Wouldn't you feel a little bit pissed off?

by Irn Bru Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:46 am

I remember a few years back when Leeds United were playing a European tie in Turkey (yes, it was a long time ago) a Leeds United fan got attacked and stabbed and he needed medical attention but the doctors wouldn't treat him until he paid up front there and then. The Leeds United MD had to rush to the hospital with his credit card and put up the money first otherwise he may well have died.
That's probably extreme but I would hope that I never see anything like that in this country and if my understanding of the British medical profession is correct then I never will and I' glad about that.

by Tommy Monk Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:42 pm

I also said emergency treatment should be provided....
When we go to other countries we are charged for any medical treatment unless we are covered by insurance that we also have to pay for.
We pay for our NHS, while others just try to use it for free.
This is clearly wrong to allow this.
I'm quite happy for people to come here for medical treatment as long as it is paid for.

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