Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Welfare adviser says he wanted a delay to work capability tests but government pressed ahead with reassessments.
Professor Malcolm Harrington said he made clear to the then work and pensions minister, Chris Grayling, above, in 2010 that he believed that the work capability assessment was not robust enough to be quickly extended to reassess existing incapacity benefit claimants.
A government welfare adviser has suggested thousands of ill and disabled people were subjected to "inhumane and mechanistic" fit-for-work tests after ministers ignored his advice not to push ahead immediately with plans to reassess 1.5 million claimants on incapacity benefit.
Professor Malcolm Harrington told the Guardian he believed the work capability assessment (WCA) was "not working very well" when the coalition took power in 2010, and he told ministers a big expansion of the scheme should be delayed for a year to enable the tests to be improved

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/16/ministers-ignored-advice-fit-for-work-tests

Just how low is this government prepared to go in their treatment of the sick and the disabled in this country? This just shows that they couldn't care less in their drive to kill of the support that many people need to try and live out a decent day to day life. The sooner they are gone the better.

No wonder people have died after being assessed as fit for work. Bastards!

Sassy wrote:No wonder people have died after being assessed as fit for work.   Bastards!

Those that don't have any kind of outside support will die this winter.

It is the mission of those that do have some kind of outside support, to hold the present system to account, and to try to help others that don't have that outside support.

    

Catman wrote:

Sassy wrote:No wonder people have died after being assessed as fit for work.   Bastards!

Those that don't have any kind of outside support will die this winter.

It is the mission of those that do have some kind of outside support, to hold the present system to account, and to try to help others that don't have that outside support.

Absolutely agree, it's a scandal that needs to be kept in the public eye.

We just can't cope. Too many people - let's bring this population down to 50 million.

Oh lets, all BNP, EDL and UKIP automatically shown the door, that would be a start. No good sending any of those that work for minimum wage and nothing would get done lol

@Big Andy
have u considered at native title claim?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Title_Act_1993
u r an Indigenous Englishman?
     

Just read your link lol. I'm sure Big Andy thinks he is one of those. Can we have reservations for them, like the American Indians?

@sassy
you could, but that might be considered racist.....
 :\\:[: 
To compensate the natives the gov't has to give them a house and enough money to live on.

To be fair to the Indigenous English   

 :\\:[:  :\\:[:  :\\:[: in not 100% where I'm going with this but I know it is ironic that an Indigenous Australian would get that with out even being sick or disabled. and as Andy seems to be a Proud Englishman I would think he would expect the Indigenous English to be better off than Indigenous Australians  :::grouch:: :::grouch:: :::grouch:: :::grouch:: 
otherwise what was the point of having an empire?      

Lol, I like that, but I do think they would need a reservation so they didn't try and start another Empire by putting down the indigenous of other countries again.

Doug just got a letter through this morning from ATOS.

He's in the bloody support group FFS! His condition isn't ever likely to improve, so why are they pulling him in, in January.

  bastards.

Catman wrote:Doug just got a letter through this morning from ATOS.

He's in the bloody support group FFS! His condition isn't ever likely to improve, so why are they pulling him in, in January.

  bastards.

If he's not fit for work he won't have to work.

Good luck Mr Catman.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Catman wrote:Doug just got a letter through this morning from ATOS.

He's in the bloody support group FFS! His condition isn't ever likely to improve, so why are they pulling him in, in January.

  bastards.

If he's not fit for work he won't have to work.

Good luck Mr Catman.

I don't trust them at all, they wrote to his consultant a few months ago and he informed them of the score..It doesn't make sense that they are pulling him in at all.

BigAndy9 wrote:

Catman wrote:Doug just got a letter through this morning from ATOS.

He's in the bloody support group FFS! His condition isn't ever likely to improve, so why are they pulling him in, in January.

  bastards.

If he's not fit for work he won't have to work.

Good luck Mr Catman.

Is that right Andy. From your beloved Daily Mail:

Bedridden farmer suffering from diabetes had benefits cut and told he was fit to work... then was refused reassessment when diagnosed with terminal cancer

David Coupe lost his £50 a week payment after he was ruled fit to work
Farmer, 57, was ill with injured back, diabetes, ulcers and heart condition
He was then diagnosed with cancer and given just weeks to live
Mr Coupe tried to appeal the decision but died before it could be overturned
Wife Lyn, 57, vows to fight in husband's name so other families don't suffer
Prime Minister David Cameron said he would personally look into 'sad' case

By Lucy Crossley

PUBLISHED: 10:07, 24 October 2013 | UPDATED: 12:56, 24 October 2013

A farmer left housebound by a back injury and painful ulcers before dying from cancer was stripped of his incapacity benefit by Government assessors who ruled he was fit to work.

Despite being in constant pain, David Coupe lost his £50 a week payment, leaving his family reliant on friends and family for handouts, and unable to afford to heat their home.

Although the 57-year-old tried to appeal the ruling by the Department for Work and Pensions, which was based on evidence including a report by Atos, the private company behind fitness-to-work tests, he was told it would take a year.
David Coupe was denied incapacity benefit and died before his appeal
Picture shows David Coupe was denied incapacity benefit and died before his appeal

Constant pain: Farmer David Coupe, 57, died from a rare form of cancer while he waited for the decision to strip him of his £50-a-week incapacity benefit to be overturned. Mr Coupe was ruled fit for work despite being housebound as a result of a painful back injury, diabetes, ulcers and a heart condition.

In August Mr Coupe was diagnosed with cancer and given just weeks to live. Although he tried to bring the appeal forward the request was refused.

Mr Coupe's health rapidly deteriorated and he lost both his sight and hearing before dying earlier this month with his family at his bedside.

His funeral will be held today.

Now Mr Coupe's wife Lyn has vowed to overturn the decision, with the backing of Labour MP Dennis Skinner - who highlighted the case to the House of Commons, describing Atos as 'unfit for purpose' and a 'heartless monster'.

Prime Minister David Cameron has also said he would personally look into the "desperately sad" case.

Mr Coupe was assessed as fit to work in December last year, despite the fact he was seriously ill with diabetes, a heart condition and a badly injured back, which had left him in serious pain and unable to work for the last 24 years.

The former farmer and butcher from Calow, near Chesterfield, Derbyshire had also been rendered housebound by ulcerated legs.

'Atos decided he was capable of limited employment and his benefit was cut, which left us with just £71 a week,' said Mrs Coupe, also 57.
Much loved: Mrs Coupe said her husband, pictured before his cancer struck, would 'do anything for anyone'

Much-loved: Mrs Coupe said her husband, pictured before his cancer struck, would 'do anything for anyone'

'He was called to the Job Centre late last year.They just took his blood pressure. They never checked his back or asked about his diabetes and the ulcers he had on his legs.

'The computer told them he hadn’t worked for 24 years. He had damaged his back working on a farm and his health deteriorated.

'He worked long hours on the farm. He would leave at 5am and some days I would not see him again until 11pm. He was devastated when he was unable to carry on working.'

Mrs Coupe said that the benefit cut had left the couple needing to borrow money from their friends and family.

'I was borrowing money off everybody,' said the mother-of one.

'We couldn’t afford to put the heating on last winter so we sat with with blankets round us.'

'David appealed against the ruling but was told a decision would take almost a year but he didn’t have a year. A short while later he was diagnosed with cancer and given just a few weeks to live.

'He was dying and he just kept saying "I wish I could win this case before I die" but he didn’t.

'He got a rare form of cancer which took his sight and his hearing before he died.

'His doctors and specialist nurses wrote to the firm but never received a reply. Five weeks before David died I contacted Atos.

'I told them my husband didn’t have long to live but they wouldn’t bring the appeal forward.'

Mrs Coupe said

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474772/Farmer-David-Coupe-refused-Atos-healthcare-reassessment-diagnosed-terminal-cancer.html#ixzz2njXefER3
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



There are pictures of him in the article when they told him he was fit for work, they are heart breaking.

Sassy wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:

If he's not fit for work he won't have to work.

Good luck Mr Catman.

Is that right Andy.   From your beloved Daily Mail:

Bedridden farmer suffering from diabetes had benefits cut and told he was fit to work... then was refused reassessment when diagnosed with terminal cancer

   David Coupe lost his £50 a week payment after he was ruled fit to work
   Farmer, 57, was ill with injured back, diabetes, ulcers and heart condition
   He was then diagnosed with cancer and given just weeks to live
   Mr Coupe tried to appeal the decision but died before it could be overturned
   Wife Lyn, 57, vows to fight in husband's name so other families don't suffer
   Prime Minister David Cameron said he would personally look into 'sad' case

By Lucy Crossley

PUBLISHED: 10:07, 24 October 2013 | UPDATED: 12:56, 24 October 2013

A farmer left housebound by a back injury and painful ulcers before dying from cancer was stripped of his incapacity benefit by Government assessors who ruled he was fit to work.

Despite being in constant pain, David Coupe lost his £50 a week payment, leaving his family reliant on friends and family for handouts, and unable to afford to heat their home.

Although the 57-year-old tried to appeal the ruling by the Department for Work and Pensions, which was based on evidence including a report by Atos, the private company behind fitness-to-work tests, he was told it would take a year.
David Coupe was denied incapacity benefit and died before his appeal
Picture shows David Coupe was denied incapacity benefit and died before his appeal

Constant pain: Farmer David Coupe, 57, died from a rare form of cancer while he waited for the decision to strip him of his £50-a-week incapacity benefit to be overturned. Mr Coupe was ruled fit for work despite being housebound as a result of a painful back injury,  diabetes, ulcers and a heart condition.

In August Mr Coupe was diagnosed with cancer and given just weeks to live. Although he tried to bring the appeal forward the request was refused.

Mr Coupe's health rapidly deteriorated and he lost both his sight and hearing before dying earlier this month with his family at his bedside.

His funeral will be held today.

Now Mr Coupe's wife Lyn has vowed to overturn the decision, with the backing of Labour MP Dennis Skinner - who highlighted the case to the House of Commons, describing Atos as 'unfit for purpose' and a 'heartless monster'.

Prime Minister David Cameron has also said he would personally look into the "desperately sad" case.

Mr Coupe was assessed as fit to work in December last year, despite the fact he was seriously ill with diabetes, a heart condition and a badly injured back, which had left him in serious pain and unable to work for the last 24 years.

The former farmer and butcher from Calow, near Chesterfield, Derbyshire had also been rendered housebound by ulcerated legs.

'Atos decided he was capable of limited employment and his benefit was cut, which left us with just £71 a week,' said Mrs Coupe, also 57.
Much loved: Mrs Coupe said her husband, pictured before his cancer struck, would 'do anything for anyone'

Much-loved: Mrs Coupe said her husband, pictured before his cancer struck, would 'do anything for anyone'

'He was called to the Job Centre late last year.They just took his blood pressure. They never checked his back or asked about his diabetes and the ulcers he had on his legs.

'The computer told them he hadn’t worked for 24 years. He had damaged his back working on a farm and his health deteriorated.

'He worked long hours on the farm. He would leave at 5am and some days I would not see him again until 11pm. He was devastated when he was unable to carry on working.'

Mrs Coupe said that the benefit cut had left the couple needing to borrow money from their friends and family.

'I was borrowing money off everybody,' said the mother-of one.

'We couldn’t afford to put the heating on last winter so we sat with with blankets round us.'

'David appealed against the ruling but was told a decision would take almost a year but he didn’t have a year. A short while later he was diagnosed with cancer and given just a few weeks to live.

'He was dying and he just kept saying "I wish I could win this case before I die" but he didn’t.

'He got a rare form of cancer which took his sight and his hearing before he died.

'His doctors and specialist nurses wrote to the firm but never received a reply. Five weeks before David died I contacted Atos.

'I told them my husband didn’t have long to live but they wouldn’t bring the appeal forward.'

Mrs Coupe said

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474772/Farmer-David-Coupe-refused-Atos-healthcare-reassessment-diagnosed-terminal-cancer.html#ixzz2njXefER3
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook



There are pictures of him in the article when they told him he was fit for work, they are heart breaking.

Doug is really worried now and stress makes him worse.

What bothers me is that they might pass him fit for work, even though his condition has got worse than when he was originally put into the support group, if they do that he would win an appeal but it takes a year to get to appeal due to the backlog and they put you on £70 a week until the appeal.

Something really sinister is going on when they have written to his consultant and at present there is no cure for HIV and his symptoms.

For every genuine case I could find 10 where foreigners have stolen tens of thousands of our tax money sassy.

You see the problem don't you - we have to recoup the money somehow.

Tragic.

BigAndy9 wrote:For every genuine case I could find 10 where foreigners have stolen tens of thousands of our tax money sassy.

You see the problem don't you - we have to recoup the money somehow.

Tragic.

Total rubbish, every 'genuine case'?

'If you're challenging a disability living allowance (DLA) decision, it's worth knowing that at least 40% of DLA mandatory reconsiderations and appealsall Disability Living Allowance (DLA) appeal tribunals are successful and the odds are as high as 70% if you attend an oral appeal tribunal with a representative.'
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/disability-living-allowance-dla/dla-appeals

We need to recoup the money from the Lords being paid £300 a day for doing nothing, just clocking in and clocking out.

And we need to recoup the money from the tax avoiders/evaders

etc etc etc.

We need to recoup the money from the Lords being paid £300 a day for doing nothing, just clocking in and clocking out.

And we need to recoup the money from the tax avoiders/evaders

etc etc etc

That I agree with.

The thing is sassy, the country has been wasting £billions of taxpayers money for years.

We need to tighten our belts - that's what the Conservatives are trying to do.

That includes wasting money on the sick, lame and lazy.

BigAndy9 wrote:We need to recoup the money from the Lords being paid £300 a day for doing nothing, just clocking in and clocking out.

And we need to recoup the money from the tax avoiders/evaders

etc etc etc

That I agree with.

The thing is sassy, the country has been wasting £billions of taxpayers money for years.

We need to tighten our belts - that's what the Conservatives are trying to do.

That includes wasting money on the sick, lame and lazy.

You do make yourself look a total tit sometimes.

Sassy wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:We need to recoup the money from the Lords being paid £300 a day for doing nothing, just clocking in and clocking out.

And we need to recoup the money from the tax avoiders/evaders

etc etc etc

That I agree with.

The thing is sassy, the country has been wasting £billions of taxpayers money for years.

We need to tighten our belts - that's what the Conservatives are trying to do.

That includes wasting money on the sick, lame and lazy.

You do make yourself look a total tit sometimes.

Throwing names at people does nothing but make yourself look silly sassy unless you can explain and back up thoroughly why you did it.

'That includes wasting money on the sick, lame and lazy.'

Doesn't need any other explanation.

Just so we know how far you would sink, where do you stand on taking the food out the the mouths of babies? LOL

I feel you have misread things sassy, or jumped to the wrong conclusion based on your assumptions of somebody.

The key word is wasting - the wasting of money.

Nobody is saying money shouldn't go on a certain group - taxpayers money should be spread amongst all, of course.

Look at foreign aid - is some of it being wasted?

I hope that clears things up.

No Andy it doesn't. You specifically said:

WASTING money on THE OLD, SICK and lazy.

Too late to backtrack and try and divert.

Sassy wrote:No Andy it doesn't.   You specifically said:

WASTING money on THE OLD, SICK and lazy.

Too late to backtrack and try and divert.

Typical RW attitude...Sod everyone else apart from yourself   

No need to backtrack sassy - it's all there above.

All I am doing is explaining my position.

If we were having a face to face conversation that's what would happen - it's a little more difficult over the internet, I understand, and instead of throwing abuse back for no reason I am explaining things to you the way it should be done.

Oh definitely backtracking.

Guess you have just had one of those 'oh I wish I hadn't said that moments' LOL

Look out babies near Andy, bottles about to be swiped out of your mouths.

 :/pwn://: 

Irn Bru wrote:Welfare adviser says he wanted a delay to work capability tests but government pressed ahead with reassessments.
Professor Malcolm Harrington said he made clear to the then work and pensions minister, Chris Grayling, above, in 2010 that he believed that the work capability assessment was not robust enough to be quickly extended to reassess existing incapacity benefit claimants.
A government welfare adviser has suggested thousands of ill and disabled people were subjected to "inhumane and mechanistic" fit-for-work tests after ministers ignored his advice not to push ahead immediately with plans to reassess 1.5 million claimants on incapacity benefit.
Professor Malcolm Harrington told the Guardian he believed the work capability assessment (WCA) was "not working very well" when the coalition took power in 2010, and he told ministers a big expansion of the scheme should be delayed for a year to enable the tests to be improved

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/16/ministers-ignored-advice-fit-for-work-tests

Just how low is this government prepared to go in their treatment of the sick and the disabled in this country? This just shows that they couldn't care less in their drive to kill of the support that many people need to try and live out a decent day to day life. The sooner they are gone the better.

HI Irn

The current system needs a make over, but not scrapping as we do need to ensure that people are assessed. I have always believe there is little reason why many people cannot work, many can work, even if they have conditions or disabilities. It is easy to show where mistakes have happened to show up some errors, but what is the real reality in regards to how many have been correctly assign work, where they were not before?

Nobody should have to suffer or have died, they are very poor mistakes, but lets look at this with reason and sense, as we do need proper checks, not at the cost of life, but also with the belief people who can work are thus deemed fit to do so.

PhilDidge wrote:

Irn Bru wrote:Welfare adviser says he wanted a delay to work capability tests but government pressed ahead with reassessments.
Professor Malcolm Harrington said he made clear to the then work and pensions minister, Chris Grayling, above, in 2010 that he believed that the work capability assessment was not robust enough to be quickly extended to reassess existing incapacity benefit claimants.
A government welfare adviser has suggested thousands of ill and disabled people were subjected to "inhumane and mechanistic" fit-for-work tests after ministers ignored his advice not to push ahead immediately with plans to reassess 1.5 million claimants on incapacity benefit.
Professor Malcolm Harrington told the Guardian he believed the work capability assessment (WCA) was "not working very well" when the coalition took power in 2010, and he told ministers a big expansion of the scheme should be delayed for a year to enable the tests to be improved

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/16/ministers-ignored-advice-fit-for-work-tests

Just how low is this government prepared to go in their treatment of the sick and the disabled in this country? This just shows that they couldn't care less in their drive to kill of the support that many people need to try and live out a decent day to day life. The sooner they are gone the better.

HI Irn

The current system needs a make over, but not scrapping as we do need to ensure that people are assessed. I have always believe there is little reason why many people cannot work, many can work, even if they have conditions or disabilities. It is easy to show where mistakes have happened to show up some errors, but what is the real reality in regards to how many have been correctly assign work, where they were not before?

Nobody should have to suffer or have died, they are very poor mistakes, but lets look at this with reason and sense, as we do need proper checks, not at the cost of life, but also with the belief people who can work are thus deemed fit to do so.

We don't need government agencies to do these tests. We have GP's and consultants that know best, just rely on their reports.

Just to emphasise - somebody didn't die because of the "back to work checks".

This is just being used.

I think I said on spekensfrei about my mum's husband - the day after his funeral we got a letter saying "hoorah, you are entitled to dla (or something)" - yeah, sounds funny (we all laughed) but he didn't die "because he was waiting for that and they took so long".

I am afraid that would be vastly too expensive and again the article is not saying the system should be scrapped but that improvements should be made, on that of which I agree. So the system is in need of an overhaul, not that it should be scrapped

No Andy, he had his benefits stopped and told he was fit for work when he was dying. There's a difference. And the extra stress probably didn't help him.

PhilDidge wrote:I am afraid that would be vastly too expensive and again the article is not saying the system should be scrapped but that improvements should be made, on that of which I agree. So the system is in need of an overhaul, not that it should be scrapped

The system should be scrapped and the DWP to require patients to send in medical certificates, or they can request medical reports from consultants or GP's end of.

We don't need private profit making companies making money out of the sick and disabled, it's criminal.  

I know sassy - I just wanted to emphasise that point.

And you're spot on didge.

Just think about what is happening - every person is being assessed for work - who can argue with that.

It would be mad not to do it, and then they should be re-assessed at a later date.

It's just bloody fair!

Catman wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:I am afraid that would be vastly too expensive and again the article is not saying the system should be scrapped but that improvements should be made, on that of which I agree. So the system is in need of an overhaul, not that it should be scrapped

The system should be scrapped and the DWP to require patients to send in medical certificates, or they can request medical reports from consultants or GP's end of.

We don't need private profit making companies making money out of the sick and disabled, it's criminal.  

The article does not state to scrap anything other than it needs some tests to be improved, of which I am happy with this assessment. Again there is not many reasons why many people cannot work, even people who have disabilities.

BigAndy9 wrote:I know sassy - I just wanted to emphasise that point.

And you're spot on didge.

Just think about what is happening - every person is being assessed for work - who can argue with that.

It would be mad not to do it, and then they should be re-assessed at a later date.

It's just bloody fair!

People that suffer from a terminal illness or have health problems where they are never likely to improve should not need to be re-assessed at a later date, at the moment they are being called in at a later date which is just plain evil and typical of this nasty RW government which needs kicking to the curb.   

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

The system should be scrapped and the DWP to require patients to send in medical certificates, or they can request medical reports from consultants or GP's end of.

We don't need private profit making companies making money out of the sick and disabled, it's criminal.  

The article does not state to scrap anything other than it needs some tests to be improved, of which I am happy with this assessment. Again there is not many reasons why many people cannot work, even people who have disabilities.

So you would expect someone that is in constant pain to work?     

Catman wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:I know sassy - I just wanted to emphasise that point.

And you're spot on didge.

Just think about what is happening - every person is being assessed for work - who can argue with that.

It would be mad not to do it, and then they should be re-assessed at a later date.

It's just bloody fair!

People that suffer from a terminal illness or have health problems where they are never likely to improve should not need to be re-assessed at a later date, at the moment they are being called in at a later date which is just plain evil and typical of this nasty RW government which needs kicking to the curb.   

So if someone is found to be terminal and then is in fact cured or where an illness thought not to get better has a medical breakthrough that improves their lives should never be tested again?
The reality is I am in agreement the system needs improvements, but again tests are required and should be done.

Catman wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


The article does not state to scrap anything other than it needs some tests to be improved, of which I am happy with this assessment. Again there is not many reasons why many people cannot work, even people who have disabilities.

So you would expect someone that is in constant pain to work?     

One of my friends who is in a wheelchair due to an accident has constant pain in both legs, even though he cannot feel his legs any more, and yet goes to work every day.

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

People that suffer from a terminal illness or have health problems where they are never likely to improve should not need to be re-assessed at a later date, at the moment they are being called in at a later date which is just plain evil and typical of this nasty RW government which needs kicking to the curb.   

So if someone is found to be terminal and then is in fact cured or where an illness thought not to get better has a medical breakthrough that improves their lives should never be tested again?
The reality is I am in agreement the system needs improvements, but again tests are required and should be done.

If there is a medical breakthrough then call them in...Until there is leave them the fuck alone, they have enough problems to deal with without being required to travel miles and miles to attend these ridiculous medicals.

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

So you would expect someone that is in constant pain to work?     

One of my friends who is in a wheelchair due to an accident has constant pain in both legs, even though he cannot feel his legs any more, and yet goes to work every day.

If he cannot feel his legs then he can hardly be in constant pain there then.

Catman wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

So if someone is found to be terminal and then is in fact cured or where an illness thought not to get better has a medical breakthrough that improves their lives should never be tested again?
The reality is I am in agreement the system needs improvements, but again tests are required and should be done.

If there is a medical breakthrough then call them in...Until there is leave them the fuck alone, they have enough problems to deal with without being required to travel miles and miles to attend these ridiculous medicals.

There you go then, you have just reversed your first view point on this, showing that there can be cases for people to come back in.
Again the reality is that we do need a system to check, of which all the parties would do, the problem is more on how the checks are being done and if they are fair.

Catman wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


One of my friends who is in a wheelchair due to an accident has constant pain in both legs, even though he cannot feel his legs any more, and yet goes to work every day.

If he cannot feel his legs then he can hardly be in constant pain there then.

Really, you have never heard of phantom pain before?

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

If there is a medical breakthrough then call them in...Until there is leave them the fuck alone, they have enough problems to deal with without being required to travel miles and miles to attend these ridiculous medicals.

There you go then, you have just reversed your first view point on this, showing that there can be cases for people to come back in.
Again the reality is that we do need a system to check, of which all the parties would do, the problem is more on how the checks are being done and if they are fair.

No i haven't. They have the patients notes on file so unless there has been a medical breakthrough, then no need for them to come in it's as simple as that.

Catman wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:

There you go then, you have just reversed your first view point on this, showing that there can be cases for people to come back in.
Again the reality is that we do need a system to check, of which all the parties would do, the problem is more on how the checks are being done and if they are fair.

No i haven't. They have the patients notes on file so unless there has been a medical breakthrough, then no need for them to come in it's as simple as that.

So there is never cases where people have been wrongly diagnosed either then?

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

If he cannot feel his legs then he can hardly be in constant pain there then.

Really, you have never heard of phantom pain before?

No one that is in constant pain should be made to work and i can't think that there would be many people who would be able to work if they are, you mention an isolated case where someone might have gone to work but it shouldn't be a requirement.

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

No i haven't. They have the patients notes on file so unless there has been a medical breakthrough, then no need for them to come in it's as simple as that.

So there is never cases where people have been wrongly diagnosed either then?

I wouldn't think that there would be many of those.

PhilDidge wrote:

Catman wrote:

No i haven't. They have the patients notes on file so unless there has been a medical breakthrough, then no need for them to come in it's as simple as that.

So there is never cases where people have been wrongly diagnosed either then?

But that is not something work assessment would find out, that would be found by doctors and specialists. Also, wrong diagnosis is normally when a set of symptoms is assigned to the wrong disease and normally the right disease is then found when treatment doesn't work.

The only people who have the knowledge and experience to say whether someone is too ill to work are doctors and specialists.

Catman wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


So there is never cases where people have been wrongly diagnosed either then?

I wouldn't think that there would be many of those.

Really?

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/3/prweb10498305.htm

Catman wrote:

PhilDidge wrote:


The article does not state to scrap anything other than it needs some tests to be improved, of which I am happy with this assessment. Again there is not many reasons why many people cannot work, even people who have disabilities.

So you would expect someone that is in constant pain to work?     

I am in constant pain and I work.

You have to learn to live with it, with help from the pain clinic.

Either that or you can go to the doctor and look all wimpy and teary eyed, if you're lazy and that way inclined.

I however, can't bring myself to do this - it is weak and unmilitary.