Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

by Irn Bru Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Welfare adviser says he wanted a delay to work capability tests but government pressed ahead with reassessments.
Professor Malcolm Harrington said he made clear to the then work and pensions minister, Chris Grayling, above, in 2010 that he believed that the work capability assessment was not robust enough to be quickly extended to reassess existing incapacity benefit claimants.
A government welfare adviser has suggested thousands of ill and disabled people were subjected to "inhumane and mechanistic" fit-for-work tests after ministers ignored his advice not to push ahead immediately with plans to reassess 1.5 million claimants on incapacity benefit.
Professor Malcolm Harrington told the Guardian he believed the work capability assessment (WCA) was "not working very well" when the coalition took power in 2010, and he told ministers a big expansion of the scheme should be delayed for a year to enable the tests to be improved

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/dec/16/ministers-ignored-advice-fit-for-work-tests

Just how low is this government prepared to go in their treatment of the sick and the disabled in this country? This just shows that they couldn't care less in their drive to kill of the support that many people need to try and live out a decent day to day life. The sooner they are gone the better.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:05 pm

Sassy wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

So there is never cases where people have been wrongly diagnosed either then?

But that is not something work assessment would find out, that would be found by doctors and specialists.

The only people who have the knowledge and experience to say whether someone is too ill to work are doctors and specialists.

Again if a person who has been wrongly diagnosed by the GP, yet flags on the system something is wrong with that diagnoses then this person may indeed be very fit to work Sassy?
Hence why taking for granted what a GP might diagnose could in fact be wrong, could it not?

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:05 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Catman wrote:

So you would expect someone that is in constant pain to work?

I am in constant pain and I work.

You have to learn to live with it, with help from the pain clinic.

Either that or you can go to the doctor and look all wimpy and teary eyed, if you're lazy and that way inclined.

I however, can't bring myself to do this - it is weak and unmilitary.

Depends on the level of pain and how it effects your body. Some pain is so bad you can't move, literally.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:06 pm

There is also very strong medication to relieve pain these days.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:06 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Sassy wrote:

But that is not something work assessment would find out, that would be found by doctors and specialists.

The only people who have the knowledge and experience to say whether someone is too ill to work are doctors and specialists.

Again if a person who has been wrongly diagnosed by the GP, yet flags on the system something is wrong with that diagnoses then this person may indeed be very fit to work Sassy?
Hence why taking for granted what a GP might diagnose could in fact be wrong, could it not?

The GP would send them to a specialist, the specialist would find out if the symptoms were actually that of another disease and treat them accordingly. The symptoms would still be the same.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:07 pm

PhilDidge wrote:There is also very strong medication to relieve pain these days.

Yes I know, most addictive and with bad side effects and mostly make you very fuzzy headed and unable to concentrate.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:08 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Catman wrote:

I wouldn't think that there would be many of those.

Really?

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/3/prweb10498305.htm

People with terminal illness like HIV for example have their bloods taken on a regular basis so there can be no misdiagnosis there and so no need for them to attend pointless medicals.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:09 pm

Sassy wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Again if a person who has been wrongly diagnosed by the GP, yet flags on the system something is wrong with that diagnoses then this person may indeed be very fit to work Sassy?
Hence why taking for granted what a GP might diagnose could in fact be wrong, could it not?

The GP would send them to a specialist, the specialist would find out if the symptoms were actually that of another disease and treat them accordingly. The symptoms would still be the same.

Is it possible for a GP to wrongly diagnose a patient?

Yes or no?

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:09 pm

Catman wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Really?

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/3/prweb10498305.htm

People with terminal illness like HIV for example have their bloods taken on a regular basis so there can be no misdiagnosis there and so no need for them to attend pointless medicals.

That is not going to cover all people wrongly diagnosed though is it Phil?

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:10 pm

PhilDidge wrote:There is also very strong medication to relieve pain these days.

Even prescription pain killers aren't strong enough to relieve my partners pain.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:12 pm

Catman wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:There is also very strong medication to relieve pain these days.

Even prescription pain killers aren't strong enough to relieve my partners pain.

This is an interesting point because everyone has different pain tolerance levels, so how does the system know who can cope with pain with similar conditions and who cannot?
It cannot and thus checks are required would you not agree?

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:13 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Catman wrote:

People with terminal illness like HIV for example have their bloods taken on a regular basis so there can be no misdiagnosis there and so no need for them to attend pointless medicals.

That is not going to cover all people wrongly diagnosed though is it Phil?

Like i said there are so few people misdiagnosed in the whole of the population, so no need to require everyone to attend pointless computer points scoring medicals conducted my some monkey with hardly any medical experience.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:13 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Sassy wrote:

The GP would send them to a specialist, the specialist would find out if the symptoms were actually that of another disease and treat them accordingly. The symptoms would still be the same.

Is it possible for a GP to wrongly diagnose a patient?

Yes or no?

What's that got to do with it. If someone is very ill, its the specialist who treats them. And at the moment, the way GPs misdiagnose is to tell people they haven't got cancer when they have.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:15 pm

PhilDidge wrote:
Catman wrote:

Even prescription pain killers aren't strong enough to relieve my partners pain.

This is an interesting point because everyone has different pain tolerance levels, so how does the system know who can cope with pain with similar conditions and who cannot?
It cannot and thus checks are required would you not agree?

A computer program doesn't know much about pain levels i would suggest that a consultant or a GP would know much more so just rely on their reports and sack the computer.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:18 pm

Sassy wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:There is also very strong medication to relieve pain these days.

Yes I know, most addictive and with bad side effects and mostly make you very fuzzy headed and unable to concentrate.

So not able to work then and who would employ someone like that?

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:20 pm

Catman wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Really?

http://uk.prweb.com/releases/2013/3/prweb10498305.htm

People with terminal illness like HIV for example have their bloods taken on a regular basis so there can be no misdiagnosis there and so no need for them to attend pointless medicals.

They are not medicals - they are assessments to see whether you can work or not.

Are you saying that people with HIV can't work so there is no need for them to be assessed?

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:20 pm

Catman wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

That is not going to cover all people wrongly diagnosed though is it Phil?

Like i said there are so few people misdiagnosed in the whole of the population, so no need to require everyone to attend pointless computer points scoring medicals conducted my some monkey with hardly any medical experience.

There are plenty that are misdiagnosed and so a system is not going to know who has been are they hence why everyone will need to be checked

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:21 pm

Catman wrote:
Sassy wrote:

Yes I know, most addictive and with bad side effects and mostly make you very fuzzy headed and unable to concentrate.

So not able to work then and who would employ someone like that?

Fuzzy headed and not able to concentrate?

Parliament.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:21 pm

Sassy wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

Is it possible for a GP to wrongly diagnose a patient?

Yes or no?

What's that got to do with it. If someone is very ill, its the specialist who treats them. And at the moment, the way GPs misdiagnose is to tell people they haven't got cancer when they have.

Everything, I just need you to answer whether GP's get it wrong?

Yes or no?

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:22 pm

Catman wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:

This is an interesting point because everyone has different pain tolerance levels, so how does the system know who can cope with pain with similar conditions and who cannot?
It cannot and thus checks are required would you not agree?

A computer program doesn't know much about pain levels i would suggest that a consultant or a GP would know much more so just rely on their reports and sack the computer.

Exactly it won't know the level of pain and hence even more reason why they need to be assessed

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:24 pm

Sassy wrote:
PhilDidge wrote:There is also very strong medication to relieve pain these days.

Yes I know, most addictive and with bad side effects and mostly make you very fuzzy headed and unable to concentrate.

Some are addictive and then many people do not have constant pain all the time either, some may, but with conditions they come and go. I know someone with progressive arthritis of the back, and for many days is find and other days cannot get out of bed and is in acute pain, she does work though.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:24 pm

And the assessment needs to be done independently, before you say "just let GPs do it".

Also, GPs are too busy and would kick up a right fuss - the government have employed the manpower that everybody would have screamed out for!

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:26 pm

Quite frankly, the people complaining have something to lose - money!

Those who work and pay for everything in this country are happy with some extra checks to make sure the money goes to the right people.

It makes sense, it is fair.

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:27 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:
Catman wrote:

People with terminal illness like HIV for example have their bloods taken on a regular basis so there can be no misdiagnosis there and so no need for them to attend pointless medicals.

They are not medicals - they are assessments to see whether you can work or not.

Are you saying that people with HIV can't work so there is no need for them to be assessed?

They are medical assessments as it says on the letters that they send out Rolling Eyes

Some people (newly diagnosed) for example might not have any symptoms, the drugs that they put you on have side effects and over time cause damage to the body.

Like i keep on saying a GP or a consultant would be the best person to seek advice from on a patients ability to be able to work so no need for private companies like ATOS that are just out to get as many people off benefits, no matter how sick they are because that's how they make their money.

There have been plenty of ATOS whistle blowers that have confirmed this.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/whistleblower-tells-inside-story-atos-2194951

by Guest Tue Dec 17, 2013 3:34 pm

A lot of drugs cause damage to the body Mr Catman.

We only live for a few years - anything can happen, it's not nice, pain is part of it.

Just get on with it, and all the best!

by Irn Bru Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:29 pm

BigAndy9 wrote:A lot of drugs cause damage to the body Mr Catman.

We only live for a few years - anything can happen, it's not nice, pain is part of it.

Just get on with it, and all the best!

Pain is part of it and helping people who suffer from it and to overcome it and to live with it is part of it as well. That's what should happen in a civilized society.

by Sponsored content

Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'

Re: Ministers 'ignored advice on inhumane fit-for-work tests'