What Does It Take To Convict A Man Of Sexual Assault?

7th July 2014

Sexual assault is a crime - that means a jury must be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that they are guilty.

Therefore, if you were on a jury, what evidence would you need to say yes, i am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt they are guilty?


Please discuss.

Difficult one isn't it?

Now, you're probably all thinking that you'd need some kind of evidence to take a man's freedom from him, maybe take him away from his children, just like i would.

If that's what you think, say it.

what sort of case are you talking about Andy?   

in a new case I would expect reasonable physical evidence because it should be available give the short time frame between crime and investigation.

Cases like Rolf are obviously a bit harder because of the extended length of time between the allegations and the investigation. It is highly unlikely for physical evidence to still exist, You have to take into account things like Multiple claimants Personal history and responses to evidence presented. Does the person lie or try and redirect rather than responding to the allegation.

It is Pretty hard, almost impossible, to say 100% without doubt now that Money and Media are involved. But it can be put beyond reasonable doubt like in Rolf's case. I would say the clincher was the letter to the father of his daughter's friend, plus the live in relationship with the girl he had taken away on holidays and commented on how sexy she was in a Bikini since she was 13 years old   . Even if he didn't actually have sex with her until she was 16 pretty sure his behaviour woudl still constitute sexual assault and/or grooming before that.


I think the time allowed between crime and allegations should shrink as time passes but currently we still need to make allowances for the less 'enlightened' times of the late 1900's when child abusers did get away often and people 'turned a blind eye' to things, or didn't get police involved.

Good post Veya

Thanks Eddie

I think it is one of those things where yes there could be abuse of the system but I think enough evidence has been presented to say they are more than just empty allegation regarding Rolf or Jimmy.

There would be physical evidence?

Uncle Jimmy touched my boobs.

Where's the physical evidence veya?

was jim there alone with her
was she visibly upset immediately after
are claims reported to parents etc immediately
phone/facebook/internet contact

IF the claim is as little as brushed against, pinched or just lightly touched over clothes. I will give you the evidence is still going to minimal which is where IF it were first claim i would give benefit of the doubt BUT if sometime later Girl in Jim swim team makes similar claims I gonna suggest he is not allowed near minors alone.

veya_victaous wrote:was jim there alone with her
was she visibly upset immediately after
are claims reported to parents etc immediately
phone/facebook/internet contact

IF the claim is as little as brushed against, pinched or just lightly touched over clothes. I will give you the evidence is still going to minimal which is where IF it were first claim i would give benefit of the doubt BUT if sometime later Girl in Jim swim team makes similar claims I gonna suggest he is not allowed near minors alone.

Good answer again
Shit you're making it so I don't need to even answer   

veya_victaous wrote:was jim there alone with her
was she visibly upset immediately after
are claims reported to parents etc immediately
phone/facebook/internet contact

IF the claim is as little as brushed against, pinched or just lightly touched over clothes. I will give you the evidence is still going to minimal which is where IF it were first claim i would give benefit of the doubt BUT if sometime later Girl in Jim swim team makes similar claims I gonna suggest he is not allowed near minors alone.

Chances are, they'll be alone
Visibly upset? Girls are very good at that. Even if they're not - they must be believed when they make these reports! It's the law, doncha know?!
If they are reported immediately or 10 years later, so what - too scared? Too ashamed? They must be believed, it's the law, doncha know?!

Andy you sound as though you think most rape claims are made by hysterical girls, who are either over-exaggerating or making it up!!

eddie wrote:Andy you sound as though you think most rape claims are made by hysterical girls, who are either over-exaggerating or making it up!!

No, i'm just arguing this particular point.

Neither you nor i investigate most rape claims.

My only interest is the legal side eddie, some can't understand that, even though it's quite clear.

BigAndy9 wrote:
There would be physical evidence?

Uncle Jimmy touched my boobs.

Where's the physical evidence veya?

   AS well as niece Gwenda's own claim you could also look at the uncle's history, general behaviour, how he behaves towards police and courts ?

OVER here a lot of the charges of "sexual assault" hinges around the issue of consent by the victim ~ or lack thereof...

UNDER certain specified conditions, victims of various classes of sexual assaults are described as being unable to provide such consent to any sexual or undue, improper or unwanted physical contact if they are, for example :

animals, not of the human species;
under the age of consent (16 down here..);
mentally or physically impaired;
under the effects of drugs or alcohol;
sleeping, unconscious or injured;
being coerced or scared; etc.

 

BigAndy9 wrote:

veya_victaous wrote:was jim there alone with her
was she visibly upset immediately after
are claims reported to parents etc immediately
phone/facebook/internet contact

IF the claim is as little as brushed against, pinched or just lightly touched over clothes. I will give you the evidence is still going to minimal which is where IF it were first claim i would give benefit of the doubt BUT if sometime later Girl in Jim swim team makes similar claims I gonna suggest he is not allowed near minors alone.

Chances are, they'll be alone
Visibly upset?  Girls are very good at that.  Even if they're not - they must be believed when they make these reports!  It's the law, doncha know?!
If they are reported immediately or 10 years later, so what - too scared?  Too ashamed?  They must be believed, it's the law, doncha know?!

SO did you read what I wrote or just make up my response     

I do Agree that the law should be more suspect of claim made after a long time, and they are also harder to Prove because of the lack of evidence one way or another. Like I said in my Original post I think this is a timing thing as until the abused from the 90's come out there is reasonable reason to believe a delay because of the change in attitudes over the last 50 years. I think in the late 90's the internet started to be more of thing and the 'fear/active vigilance' of pedophiles developed along side it... the internet brought porn of all sorts to the masses.    I think people a more aware now of how 'kinky/fetish/sick' some other people are than ever before     (not just in relation to children... I mean who would have though some people get turned on by literally shit  :aspukeas: :aspukeas: :aspukeas: )

BigAndy9 wrote:

eddie wrote:Andy you sound as though you think most rape claims are made by hysterical girls, who are either over-exaggerating or making it up!!

No, i'm just arguing this particular point.

Neither you nor i investigate most rape claims.

My only interest is the legal side eddie, some can't understand that, even though it's quite clear.

Andy I do understand your interest but i don't think you can lump all cases together, each case has to be assessed on it's own merit, as Veya has said in his example.

@Andy
I do Agree with you more than I would like to admit because I think Like you I am 'brave/face conflict' I could not really imagine in this day and age having not said something before now I mean I would have struggled and said something straight away. And I and pretty sure you are of a similar disposition..

BUT well Even some men are quite cowardly  :ashmmmas:  
I am not gonna even try and analyses the 'bravery' of the fairer sex ::dunno::

eddie wrote:

BigAndy9 wrote:


No, i'm just arguing this particular point.

Neither you nor i investigate most rape claims.

My only interest is the legal side eddie, some can't understand that, even though it's quite clear.

Andy I do understand your interest but i don't think you can lump all cases together, each case has to be assessed on it's own merit, as Veya has said in his example.

Oh god of course.

But i'm not lumping all cases together - you just think i am.

Just like when JD thinks i hate all blacks, poor people and foreigners.